15:00:13 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #swxg
15:00:13 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/10/07-swxg-irc
15:00:15 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
15:00:15 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #swxg
15:00:17 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 7994
15:00:18 <Zakim> I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, trackbot
15:00:18 <trackbot> Meeting: Social Web Incubator Group Teleconference
15:00:18 <trackbot> Date: 07 October 2009
15:00:26 <hhalpin> Argh!
15:00:33 <hhalpin> Hmmm....
15:00:39 <hhalpin> we may have an issue with Zakim.
15:00:42 <hhalpin> Wait one sec...
15:00:57 <cperey> cperey has joined #swxg
15:01:12 <AlexPassant> we got a similar issue yesterday with SPARQL, had to move to another room
15:01:25 <cperey> the date is Oct 7 (not Sept 30)
15:01:31 <DKA> DKA has joined #swxg
15:01:47 <tinkster> "the conference is restricted at this time" :-(
15:01:48 <DKA> Hi - having Zakim troubles... "conference restricted"
15:01:51 <hhalpin> OK, everyone hold on just for a second.
15:01:54 <hhalpin> :)
15:01:58 <hhalpin> Am working on this now...
15:02:03 <DKA> "Halpin!"
15:02:07 <hhalpin> might delay conference call 10 minutes.
15:02:31 <FabGandon> FabGandon has joined #swxg
15:03:27 <hhalpin> Zakim, space for 15?
15:03:29 <Zakim> ok, hhalpin; conference Team_(swxg)15:03Z scheduled with code 26632 (CONF2) for 60 minutes until 1603Z; however, please note that capacity is now overbooked
15:03:37 <petef> petef has joined #swxg
15:04:18 <Zakim> Team_(swxg)15:03Z has now started
15:04:19 <Zakim> +Carine
15:04:29 <Zakim> +DKA
15:04:43 <DKA> zakom, who's here?
15:04:51 <hhalpin> thanks carine!
15:05:17 <mischat> hello all, I have had a node fail one on my systems :( will lurk on IRC today but wont be on the call. 
15:05:53 <mischat> hhalpin: I am aware I have outstanding tasks, will get them completed by next meetings 
15:05:57 <mischat> s/s$//
15:05:58 <hhalpin> No problem...
15:06:00 <CaptSolo> CaptSolo has joined #swxg
15:06:02 <DKA> Can others now join at Zakim bridge with code 26632?
15:06:04 <Zakim> +pchampin
15:06:26 <Adam> I joined with 7994
15:06:35 <DKA> Oh dear...
15:06:36 <MacTed> hm.  I just got in with 7994, but Zakim doesn't seem to know I'm here.
15:06:43 <MacTed> gonna drop and rejoin with new code
15:06:47 <Zakim> +cperey
15:07:06 <Zakim> +OpenLink_Software
15:07:20 <MacTed> Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily MacTed
15:07:20 <Zakim> +MacTed; got it
15:07:22 <Zakim> +tinkster
15:07:22 <MacTed> Zakim, mute me
15:07:24 <Zakim> MacTed should now be muted
15:07:30 <bblfish> is anyone going to be on the telecon?
15:07:31 <Zakim> -tinkster
15:07:35 <petef> zakim, who is on the phone?
15:07:35 <Zakim> On the phone I see Carine, DKA, pchampin (muted), cperey, MacTed (muted)
15:07:42 <DKA> Ok - let's all go over to 26632 for this call please.
15:07:49 <tinkster> dammit, i don't know how to use my phone
15:08:01 <hhalpin> Zakim, who is on the phone?
15:08:01 <Zakim> On the phone I see Carine, DKA, pchampin (muted), cperey, MacTed (muted)
15:08:04 <Zakim> +tinkster
15:08:15 <hhalpin> DKA - 7994 works
15:08:34 <cperey> yes, but some are not on it
15:08:39 <DKA> Harry are you on 7994?
15:08:41 <hhalpin> Yes.
15:08:45 <hhalpin> Rather confusedly enough :)
15:08:50 <DKA> Zakim thinks we are on 26632 now.
15:08:59 <tinkster> The wonders of modern technology.
15:09:06 <petef> That rings and drops out for me
15:09:09 <Zakim> +??P56
15:09:17 <AlexPassant> Zakim, ??P56 is me 
15:09:17 <Zakim> +AlexPassant; got it
15:09:19 <cperey> let's begin!!
15:09:20 <pchampin> damned silos !!! :-D
15:09:23 <petef> 7994 worked, but Zakim didn't know I was there
15:09:25 <hhalpin> Zakim, who's on the phone?
15:09:25 <Zakim> On the phone I see Carine, DKA, pchampin (muted), cperey, MacTed (muted), tinkster, AlexPassant
15:09:49 <petef> which conf code is zakim in?
15:09:51 <evanpro> hhalpin told me to wait until 20 min past the hour
15:09:57 <DKA> Yes - Zakim now associates 26632 with this teleconf - I don't know how to switch it back 7994 - I suggest we all go onto 26632.
15:10:01 <tinkster> Can we have a RESOLUTION about which room to have the call in?
15:10:08 <hhalpin> RESOLVED: switching to 26632. 
15:10:12 <DKA> zakim, what is the code.
15:10:12 <Zakim> I don't understand 'what is the code', DKA
15:10:14 <caribou> zakim did know that some people were on 7994 but associateds this channel to 26632
15:10:15 <DKA> zakim, what is the code?
15:10:15 <Zakim> the conference code is 26632 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), DKA
15:10:33 <Zakim> +??P52
15:10:33 <AlexPassant> we should add a TF on cross-zakim-channel portability in the upcoming WG
15:10:36 <DKA> ok thanks
15:10:38 <Zakim> +bblfish
15:10:46 <DKA> follies
15:11:10 <Zakim> +petef
15:11:17 <Zakim> + +44.131.208.aaaa
15:11:20 <Zakim> +Adam
15:11:31 <hhalpin> Zakim, ??aaaa is hhalpin
15:11:31 <Zakim> sorry, hhalpin, I do not recognize a party named '??aaaa'
15:11:36 <hhalpin> Zakim, aaaa is hhalpin
15:11:36 <Zakim> +hhalpin; got it
15:12:09 <cperey> what is the request?
15:12:31 <Adam> where's the drums for your joke :)
15:12:37 <cperey> no you are OK
15:12:42 <Zakim> +FabGandon
15:12:49 <hhalpin> Zakim, add agendum "Convene SWXG WG  meeting of 2009-10-07T15:00-17:00Z"
15:12:49 <Zakim> I don't understand you, hhalpin
15:12:57 <cperey> DKA sounds clear
15:13:08 <hhalpin> Convene SWXG WG  meeting of 2009-10-07T15:00-17:00Z
15:13:12 <Zakim> + +03539149aabb
15:13:15 <hhalpin> chair: hhalpin
15:13:33 <hhalpin> scribe: peterf
15:13:33 <CaptSolo> Zakim, aabb is me
15:13:33 <Zakim> +CaptSolo; got it
15:13:37 <hhalpin> Zakim, who's here?
15:13:37 <Zakim> On the phone I see Carine, DKA, pchampin (muted), cperey, MacTed (muted), tinkster, AlexPassant, ??P52, bblfish, petef, hhalpin, Adam, FabGandon, CaptSolo
15:13:40 <Zakim> On IRC I see CaptSolo, petef, FabGandon, DKA, cperey, Zakim, RRSAgent, melvster, pchampin, evanpro, Adam, yuk, hhalpin, mischat, bblfish, MacTed, caribou, tinkster, AlexPassant,
15:13:43 <Zakim> ... trackbot
15:13:48 <hhalpin> PROPOSED: to approve SWXG WG Weekly -- 30th September 2009 as a true record
15:14:18 <hhalpin> RESOLVED: approved SWXG WG Weekly -- 30th September 2009 as a true record
15:14:18 <tinkster> evanpro, when you call in, we're on extension 26632 instead of 7994.
15:14:22 <hhalpin> PROPOSED: to meet again Wed. October 14th
15:14:31 <hhalpin> 2. General Organization
15:14:39 <hhalpin> TPAC, IIW
15:14:52 <hhalpin> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/Planning_for_TPAC_Open_Day
15:15:02 <hhalpin> TPAC?
15:15:08 <hhalpin> I imagine go a few...
15:15:16 <hhalpin> Hoping to have an "Open Day"
15:15:27 <Zakim> +??P67
15:15:36 <hhalpin> but it conflicts with OAuth/OpenID Summit, which is also on Monday 2nd.
15:15:41 <petef> hhalpin: you are scribing?
15:15:41 <hhalpin> This is at Yahoo.
15:15:48 <melvster> Zakim, ??P67 is me
15:15:48 <Zakim> +melvster; got it
15:15:50 <bblfish> do you have a URL for the openid oauth summit?
15:16:04 <petef> I'm happy if you are.
15:16:49 <hhalpin> http://openid.eventbrite.com/
15:16:54 <hhalpin> Petef - please scribe!
15:17:00 <petef> OK
15:17:04 <tinkster> petef, hhalpin likes to type up everything he says to prevent himself from being misquoted.
15:17:23 <hhalpin> I try to type dates and stuff...
15:17:33 <petef> dka my initial view was we should have the open day anyway
15:17:54 <evanpro> Seems like there'd be great synergy to have them complementary events
15:18:00 <petef> [please tell me if I am missing scribing protocol]
15:18:18 <petef> dka but now think maybe we should cancel the openday
15:18:24 <petef> and work with the openid thing
15:19:00 <hhalpin> trackbot, status?
15:19:08 <hhalpin> rrsagent, pointer?
15:19:08 <RRSAgent> See http://www.w3.org/2009/10/07-swxg-irc#T15-19-08
15:19:10 <petef> thanks guys
15:19:24 <petef> dka: should we just forget about it?
15:19:34 <petef> hhalpin: how about Tue at the Marriot?
15:19:43 <bblfish> Well I can get Sun on Tuesday too
15:19:45 <cperey> what about later in the week?
15:19:51 <petef> hhalpin: not too many people registered
15:20:16 <petef> dka: we could invite people to observe our working group
15:20:35 <petef> dka: unless we could get externally parties in to present, like on the calls
15:21:02 <petef> hhalpin: we could invite people Michelle Adamic (sp?) has a list of names we could invite
15:21:11 <cperey> many apologies but what about having Open Day on another day?
15:21:19 <cperey> later in week?
15:21:24 <evanpro> two days close together please
15:21:31 <evanpro> I would attend if both events were close together
15:21:41 <evanpro> A week apart makes things hard for out-of-towners
15:21:49 <petef> zakim, who is speaking?
15:21:59 <cperey> Henry
15:22:00 <Zakim> petef, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: DKA (5%), bblfish (9%)
15:22:03 <petef> Thanks
15:22:18 <bblfish> So the question is how many people would be able to come on Monday?
15:22:39 <petef> henry: it's only an openid meeting, we aren't expecting any new announcements
15:22:41 <bblfish> there are three confilcting events
15:22:43 <hhalpin> My concern was two-fold: first, conflicting events might be misinterpreted by OpenID/OAuth folks
15:22:47 <bblfish> there is Apache conf
15:22:50 <bblfish> there is IIW
15:22:52 <cperey> New proposal: what about having an Open Day when there are not conflicting events?
15:23:00 <bblfish> there is W3C conf
15:23:05 <hhalpin> Any ideas?
15:23:06 <cperey> early Dec?
15:23:13 <cperey> I mean completely separate
15:24:04 <petef> cperey: I could take an action item to propose other dates at anoher location, not TPAC
15:24:12 <bblfish> ok, then the problem is that a lot of people won't be out there
15:24:14 <bblfish> anymore
15:24:22 <petef> dka: I won't be out in the Bay area again for a while
15:24:45 <petef> dka: part of the idea of doing it at TPAC was to leverage people's attendance
15:24:58 <petef> dka: could we do a hybrid event with the openid folk?
15:25:06 <bblfish> sounds good too
15:25:08 <petef> dka: half a day on each
15:25:21 <hhalpin> Zakim, who's talking?
15:25:24 <petef> dka: is that a middle way that would satisfy everybody?
15:25:31 <Zakim> hhalpin, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: DKA (43%), bblfish (13%)
15:26:02 <petef> dka: if so we could start drafting a page around that and get it out to people
15:26:29 <hhalpin> My question is can we just get these people to get to TPAC - i.e. TPAC into an "open day"
15:26:39 <hhalpin> Assuming very few people are coming
15:26:42 <bblfish> I think I agree with that
15:27:02 <petef> zakim, who is talking?
15:27:12 <Zakim> petef, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: DKA (9%)
15:27:12 <bblfish> how many people can come to OpenDay?
15:27:52 <petef> dka: concerned that we may not be able to network a largish event at short notice
15:28:05 <bblfish> the IIW will be all week?
15:28:14 <petef> hhalpin?: won't people also be attending IIW?
15:28:15 <bblfish> sorry I mean they will be all week
15:28:37 <petef> dka: we want to make sure we aren't stepping on any toes
15:28:50 <petef> dka: seen as trying to put on a competing event
15:29:54 <danbri> danbri has joined #swxg
15:29:58 <petef> dka: but if we could get some CTOs and mktg consultants into TPAc that would be good
15:30:14 <petef> zakim, who is talking?
15:30:24 <Zakim> petef, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: DKA (19%), bblfish (10%), hhalpin (68%)
15:30:36 <hhalpin> Zakim, who's on the phone?
15:30:36 <Zakim> On the phone I see Carine, DKA, pchampin (muted), cperey, MacTed (muted), tinkster, AlexPassant, ??P52, bblfish, petef, hhalpin, Adam, FabGandon, CaptSolo, melvster
15:30:38 <petef> hhalpin: we need to move on
15:30:40 <cperey> yep, meeting after
15:31:21 <Zakim> + +1.514.525.aacc
15:31:40 <petef> zakim, who is talking?
15:31:40 <cperey> henry you are breaking up
15:31:51 <Zakim> petef, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: +1.514.525.aacc (54%), DKA (13%), hhalpin (5%)
15:31:57 <evanpro> petef, 514-554-3826 == me
15:32:17 <petef> zakim, 3826 is evanpro
15:32:17 <Zakim> sorry, petef, I do not recognize a party named '3826'
15:32:32 <petef> zakim, aacc is evanpro
15:32:32 <Zakim> +evanpro; got it
15:33:10 <cperey> haha!
15:33:13 <Zakim> +DKA.a
15:33:13 <Zakim> -DKA
15:33:19 <tinkster> danbri: we're not in 2994.
15:33:20 <petef> dka: evan is on the line, let's make the most of his time
15:33:26 <DKA> zakim, dka.a is dka
15:33:26 <Zakim> +dka; got it
15:33:29 <petef> evanpro: I'm enjoying listening
15:33:42 <tinkster> we're in 26632 
15:33:43 <Adam> 26632 is the new code dan
15:33:54 <petef> dka: we'll go straight to... the invited guests
15:33:54 <hhalpin> 3. Invited Guest - Evan Prodromou from OpenMicroBlogging and Alex Passant on Semantic Microblogging
15:33:59 <Zakim> +??P4
15:33:59 <hhalpin> Evan?
15:34:03 <evanpro> I'm here
15:34:21 <hhalpin> Evan Prodromou of OpenMicroblogging will give a talk on his work on OpenMicroblogging (see the specification) and its connection to the wider Social Web ecoystem
15:34:30 <petef> dka: hopefully evanpro can give us an interesting introduction to OMB
15:35:05 <petef> evanpro: a conjunction of openid, oauth and swxg would be enough to  get me out to CA
15:35:25 <petef> evanpro: I am the inventor and shepherd of OMB
15:35:55 <petef> evanpro: bg on myself - working on open source and content for 15 yrs
15:35:59 <petef> esp wikitravel
15:36:09 <petef> around issues of identity
15:36:19 <danbri> http://evan.prodromou.name/
15:36:23 <petef> briefly on JSF Council
15:36:27 <danbri> http://identi.ca/evan
15:36:38 <petef> with the launch of Twitter in 2007 
15:36:47 <petef> there was an expolsion of interest in OMB
15:37:02 <petef> defined as exchange of small text message with your social network
15:37:10 <petef> twitter, jaiku, pownce etc.
15:37:26 <petef> contrast to blogging , tumblelogs and social bookmarking
15:37:49 <petef> people seem to enjoy OMB and the responsiveness of it
15:38:06 <petef> as the growth of witter got ahead of their ability to support it
15:38:26 <petef> interest grew in the evolution of an open standard for microblogging (OMB)
15:38:43 <petef> seeing as noone else was doing it I thought I would set up an easy hack
15:38:50 <petef> federated
15:39:04 <petef> started laconica in May 2008, hosting identi.ca
15:39:22 <petef> includes features important to the future of the open social web
15:39:38 <petef> openid, foaf, import and export of data
15:39:54 <petef> you can take the identi.ca source and install it in silo 
15:40:09 <petef> so decided to create a protocol
15:40:19 <petef> my design criteria were
15:40:24 <petef> http based system
15:40:37 <petef> tend to go for the low end on servers
15:40:52 <petef> so that you could install a node on commodity shared hosting
15:41:03 <petef> wanted it to work with openid and oauth
15:41:19 <petef> and to be realtively easy to implement with existing tools and libraries
15:41:29 <petef> flirted with openid attrib exchange
15:41:33 <danbri> cf http://openid.net/specs/openid-attribute-exchange-1_0.html
15:41:47 <petef>  but the mechanics don't allow pushing and pulling to other openid servers
15:41:53 <petef> so wouldn't really work
15:42:01 <petef> instead used oauth
15:42:26 <petef> subscribing to somebody's notices means that you authorise another server to push to your inbox
15:42:30 <petef> four players:
15:42:49 <petef> publisher, subscriber, publiher-server, subscriber-server
15:43:17 <petef> profiles within OMB are http urls
15:43:32 <petef> subscriber provides their url to the publisher server
15:43:42 <petef> which uses oauth discovery
15:43:49 <petef> still very fluid
15:43:58 <danbri> q+ to ask if anyone has done usability testing on OMB remote subscription scenarios
15:43:59 <petef> OMB uses XRD simple files
15:44:17 <petef> draft since deprecated for LARDD
15:44:25 <tinkster> s/LARDD/LRDD/
15:44:27 <petef> will share links later
15:44:37 <petef> use oauth discovery to find endpoints
15:44:45 <petef> two additional endpoints are defined
15:45:06 <petef> the user experience is to go through the typically oauth dance
15:45:21 <petef> token exchange
15:45:34 <petef> unlike some other pubsub mechanisms
15:45:50 <petef> there's an expectation that I should know who subscribes to my feed
15:45:59 <petef> closer relationship
15:46:13 <petef> pass along profile info in oauth dance
15:46:28 <petef> avatar, full name, location, homepage, short bio
15:46:33 <petef> via http post params
15:46:41 <petef> once sub complete
15:46:52 <petef> the two additional endpoints are used
15:47:00 <petef> push based (unlike atom or rss)
15:47:08 <petef> no polling
15:47:18 <petef> good responsiveness, better performance
15:47:30 <petef> post notice endpoint
15:47:43 <petef> used by pulisher server
15:48:07 <petef> profile update endpoint
15:48:18 <petef> used if publisher profile chganges
15:48:48 <petef> any kind of client to server api is out of scope
15:49:31 <petef> laconica (now called status net) uses a clone of the twitter api
15:49:38 <petef> also working on an atompub version
15:50:12 <Zakim> -hhalpin
15:50:20 <petef> any kind of syntax def'n is also out of scope
15:50:25 <Adam> the pub/sub explanation sounds very similar to pubsubhubhub
15:50:27 <petef> just pushes plain text
15:50:57 <petef> hashtags #foo and directed messages @bar are not defined in OMB
15:51:12 <petef> 0.1 protocol has been fairly successful
15:51:19 <petef> thousands of nodes on the network
15:51:24 <petef> important weaknesses
15:51:35 <petef> no system for unsolicited notices
15:51:55 <petef> if you aren't subscribed to me no way for me to message you
15:52:08 <tinkster1> tinkster1 has joined #swxg
15:52:12 <Zakim> +hhalpin
15:52:13 <tinkster1> Adam, it sort of is, but there's no hub per se. Updates are pushed from publisher server to subscriber server.
15:52:26 <petef> parsing syntax left out which means the hashtags and replies have to be guessed at
15:52:39 <petef> threading questions across multiple servers
15:52:48 <petef> no threading bult in
15:53:12 <petef> no direct private messages eiother
15:53:55 <petef> low level thing, in oauth two kinds of keys - one to identify a particular conversation and one for th sending server -
15:54:07 <petef> OMB actually uses the root URL of the sending server
15:54:13 <petef> hard to verify in the client
15:54:28 <petef> I'd like to talk about where we are going with OMB 0.2
15:54:49 <petef> four other implementations:
15:55:02 <petef> openmicroblogger, jaiku (at 0.2), etc.
15:55:39 <petef> for 0.2 biggest change is move away from plain text to atom entries for pushing notices
15:55:47 <petef> richer data format
15:56:04 <DKA> NB: In Vodafone we are already using laconi.ca for an internal microblog system and we are looking at using it as a platform for building mobile social network prototype apps.
15:56:08 <petef> we'll also e able to leverage work around activitystreams
15:56:13 <petef> which is also atom based
15:56:20 <danbri> http://activitystrea.ms/
15:56:30 <danbri> (aside: they're moving this to be equally atom and json)
15:56:31 <petef> second important thing is we will include parsed html
15:56:44 <petef> some security issues obviously
15:56:52 <petef> will require sanitizing 
15:57:02 <petef> but good step for usability
15:57:09 <petef> adding in-reply-to info
15:57:16 <petef> will improve threading
15:57:41 <petef> @xyz will resolve to an identity url for the recipient
15:57:47 <petef> that will travel with the packet
15:57:57 <petef> replacing oauth discovery with LRRD
15:58:09 <petef> support for unsolicited messages
15:58:12 <tinkster1> s/LRRD/LRDD/
15:58:20 <petef> in protocol, up to clients what they do with it
15:58:35 <petef> proposal to provision verifiable user keys
15:58:50 <petef> [tinkster I'll get it right eventually]
15:59:07 <petef> we want something interoperable by the end of the year
15:59:17 <petef> relation to openid
15:59:23 <petef> OMB identity is an URL
15:59:33 <petef> use YADIS
15:59:40 <Zakim> -??P52
15:59:47 <petef> want to make sure we mesh nicely with openid
16:00:04 <petef> two new feed based systems announced
16:00:07 <danbri> bradfitz
16:00:09 <danbri> fitzpatrick
16:00:09 <petef> pubsubhubbub
16:00:16 <petef> atom based
16:00:21 <danbri> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PubSubHubbub
16:00:24 <petef> and rsscloud
16:00:31 <rreck> rreck has joined #SWXG
16:00:38 <petef> embedded into rss 2.0 but never really implemented
16:00:42 <petef> now being revived
16:01:01 <petef> neither supports feeding back subscriber relation to publisher
16:01:35 <petef> we are implementing both of these and trying to work with the standards to add in subscriber publisher feedback
16:02:14 <petef> activity streams - the hard part will be the unification between AS, atom and opensocial
16:02:24 <petef> always wanted http based system
16:02:40 <petef> but would also like an upshift to xmpp based if both servers support it
16:02:56 <petef> well known protocol, very nice pubsub system
16:03:04 <petef> some work done to adapt it for OMB
16:03:22 <petef> looking into that 
16:03:27 <petef> stubs for that in 0.2
16:03:37 <petef> discovery process over the next few months
16:03:40 <petef> +q
16:03:45 <hhalpin> ack danbri
16:03:45 <Zakim> danbri, you wanted to ask if anyone has done usability testing on OMB remote subscription scenarios
16:03:53 <danbri> peterf first
16:04:01 <hhalpin> ack petef
16:04:03 <AlexPassant> q+ for synergies with SMOB / SIOC and other vocabs
16:04:12 <Zakim> +??P7
16:04:19 <FabGandon> FabGandon has left #swxg
16:04:26 <rreck> zakim, ??P7 is me
16:04:26 <Zakim> +rreck; got it
16:04:30 <Zakim> -FabGandon
16:04:31 <rreck> zakim, mute me
16:04:31 <Zakim> rreck should now be muted
16:04:32 <petef> petef: have you looked at wave-protocol in relation to OM
16:04:34 <petef> B
16:04:43 <Zakim> -hhalpin
16:04:59 <petef> evanpro: v. intersting  but ow it will fit into OMB is still open
16:05:06 <DKA> q+ to ask about location...
16:05:11 <danbri> q?
16:05:25 <danbri> ok i fixed my audio, i'm next on queue please :)
16:05:31 <petef> for low end target systems wave won't be available for quite a while
16:05:54 <petef> whether it picks up as ubiquitous will be interesting
16:06:04 <petef> my hope is that it does see some success
16:06:16 <petef> don't think the current generation fits well with OMB
16:06:34 <tinkster1> yes
16:06:39 <petef> interested in wave and how it develops
16:06:51 <tinkster1> no longer audible
16:06:51 <rreck> you were audiable
16:06:54 <DKA> losing part of danbri's speech
16:06:59 <danbri> q:
16:07:03 <danbri> have you done any usability testing
16:07:09 <danbri> esp on remote subscribe aspects of OMB
16:07:18 <danbri> do users understand what's going on, etc
16:07:26 <petef> evanpro: usability testing - pretty important usability problems
16:07:36 <petef> v. similar to usability problems for openid
16:07:41 <petef> mechanism is very similar
16:07:50 <petef> I need to remember my identity url
16:07:53 <danbri> cf http://lists.openid.net/pipermail/openid-user-experience/
16:08:10 <petef> and provide it to remote servers which use it to start a conversation on the back end
16:08:19 <petef> we haven't done much work on that 
16:08:28 <petef> hopwe we can borrow from openid world
16:08:47 <danbri> i'm interested to see more work figuring out how much implies protocol design changes, and how much can be done with improved web design, addons etc
16:08:48 <petef> widgets and keeping an eye on webfinger
16:08:53 <danbri> http://code.google.com/p/webfinger/
16:09:17 <danbri> http://hueniverse.com/2009/09/implementing-webfinger/
16:09:22 <petef> users associate people with email type addresses
16:09:26 <petef> and urls with docs
16:09:27 <danbri> thanks evanpro, ... i think webfinger pretty relevant here
16:09:43 <danbri> http://hueniverse.com/webfinger/
16:09:50 <petef> webfinger also nice simple way to include addresses into OMB msgs
16:09:53 <tinkster1> http://buzzword.org.uk/2009/fingerpoint/
16:10:10 <petef> passive subscription
16:10:26 <danbri> """What Problem is WebFinger Trying to Solve? ... WebFinger is trying to address the lack of adoption and usability of current HTTP-URI-based user identifier solutions, most notably OpenID. """
16:10:56 <petef> would speed things up and improve usability
16:11:14 <bblfish> q+
16:11:30 <DKA> q?
16:11:33 <petef> could also happen with a global directory, although there are concerns about recentralisation
16:11:34 <danbri> (so maybe some role for http://code.google.com/apis/socialgraph/ etc ?)
16:11:35 <DKA> ack alex
16:11:35 <Zakim> AlexPassant, you wanted to discuss synergies with SMOB / SIOC and other vocabs
16:11:43 <petef> zakim, who is talking?
16:11:51 <danbri> skypish sounds
16:11:54 <Zakim> petef, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: evanpro (9%)
16:12:24 <petef> alex(?): very brief overview of SMOB (audio not clear)
16:12:48 <petef> wondering how it relates to OMB
16:13:06 <tinkster1> Alex, StatusNet already published FOAF, RSS and SIOC data.
16:13:08 <AlexPassant> SMOB: http://smob.sioc-project.org/
16:13:08 <petef> evanpro: we support shark(?)
16:13:15 <petef> s/shark/sioc/
16:13:16 <tinkster1> s/shark/SIOC/
16:13:18 <danbri> SIOC is pronounced like Shark, yes
16:13:27 <danbri> (irish word)
16:13:33 <petef> doesn't address server to server mechanism
16:13:50 <CaptSolo> danbri: commonly pronounced as "shock"
16:13:53 <petef> similar to smtp
16:14:18 <petef> SMOB does a good job of keeping your published info and pushing it out
16:14:28 <petef> but not really server to server interaction
16:14:30 <danbri> (shark is commonly pronounced 'shock' in some countries too ;)
16:14:39 <petef> wouldn't be a big leap to implement OMB in SMOB
16:14:46 <petef> would be very welcome
16:14:57 <CaptSolo> danbri: the proper irish pronounciation is similar to "shuck" and means frost (imagine social networks connecting together like snowflakes or frost on a window)
16:15:02 <petef> OMB doesn't (yet) cover sharing the social graph
16:15:15 <petef> you can use other mechanisms, through FOAF say,
16:15:20 <tinkster1> http://chatlogs.planetrdf.com/swig/2009-10-07.html#T11-56-51
16:15:27 <petef> might be nice to promote it or provide an url
16:15:36 <petef> as part of profile info passed through
16:15:51 <petef> SMOB is cool, would love to see it brought together with OMB
16:15:53 <DKA> q?
16:16:12 <danbri> q+ to ask if there is anything in OMB that makes one-domain-name-per-user difficult
16:16:14 <petef> alex: more than happy to work together
16:16:56 <petef> evanpro: one of our devs took the OMB stuff out of staus net and turned it into a WP plugin and a PHP library
16:17:05 <danbri> q?
16:17:17 <tinkster1> you're breaking up
16:17:20 <danbri> did we have DKA's question yet?
16:17:39 <petef> hhalpin: how are you using FOAF?
16:17:43 <DKA> nope
16:17:45 <DKA> :)
16:17:48 <bblfish> w: are you making use of foaf to do something
16:17:49 <DKA> ack bbl
16:17:50 <tinkster1> http://identi.ca/tobyink/foaf
16:17:58 <petef> evanpro: we provided FOAF info and use FOAF ids in graph
16:18:19 <petef> toby has been great in helping us implement that and the SIOC stuff better
16:18:27 <danbri> try putting http://identi.ca/danbri into http://socialgraph-resources.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/samples/exploreapi.html 
16:18:36 <danbri> google sgapi indexes identi.ca foaf
16:18:53 <petef> Could use FOAF for profile exchange in OMB
16:18:54 <Zakim> +hhalpin
16:19:09 <petef> makes more sense for discovery and so usability
16:19:15 <petef> who should I follow?
16:19:23 <petef> who might I kalready know?
16:19:23 <danbri> poss foaf use cases 'what kind of people should i be subscribing to, who sohuld i follow, who is there that i know, ...'
16:19:31 <danbri> (i think also around groups, ...)
16:19:44 <petef> groups is another great case
16:20:09 <petef> there's going to be a close interaction between OMB and FOAF
16:20:17 <tinkster1> SELECT ?person WHERE { ?me subscribesTo ?x , ?y . ?x subscribesTo ?person . ?y subscribesTo ?person . FILTER (?x != ?y) }
16:20:19 <danbri> evanpro, if there are tweaks you need to foaf to support any of these use cases, ... that's not so hard to arrange!
16:20:22 <Zakim> -Carine
16:20:26 <Zakim> -bblfish
16:20:34 <danbri> q?
16:20:45 <petef> dka: we are limited on time
16:20:52 <danbri> i've already had a question so i'll take it to email!
16:20:59 <danbri> a-
16:21:01 <danbri> q-
16:21:02 <petef> dka: are you thinking about making lcation part of the platform
16:21:08 <danbri> (my q was basically http://lists.status.net/pipermail/statusnet-dev/2009-August/002117.html again)
16:21:22 <petef> one reason many of us use Jaiku is the sophisticated support for location
16:21:58 <petef> evanpro: fascinating that we are reintroducing location to the web
16:22:17 <petef> in OMB 0.1 we only have a points tring associated with a profile
16:22:30 <petef> if I update it, that can change (but would be lost)
16:22:53 <petef> making changes to staus net to support a richer more machine friendly location format
16:23:01 <petef> will be out in 0.9 later this month
16:23:05 <tinkster1> geonames IIRC?
16:23:08 <Zakim> -hhalpin
16:23:09 <petef> lat long and geo place name vocab
16:23:20 <petef> where on earth, geonames, OSM
16:24:07 <petef> we will also include location info for each notice
16:24:28 <AlexPassant> sounds along the lines of the linkage we're doing in SMOB with geonames and DBpedia, great synergies
16:24:47 <petef> would make sense to get it into OMB 0.2
16:25:03 <petef> optional but important
16:25:20 <petef> moving to atom - should be easily included in atom entries
16:25:37 <danbri> (http://status.net/trac/report/6 seems interesting to poke around...)
16:25:55 <petef> evanpro: would love to attend open day, thanks for having me on the call
16:26:06 <petef> evan@identi.ca
16:26:11 <petef> evan@status.net
16:26:18 <hhalpin> evanpro - will stay in touch via e-mail, and thanks so much for being on call!
16:26:28 <petef> dka: thank you
16:26:28 <danbri> thanks evanpro!
16:26:36 <petef> dka: we have to close the call now
16:26:41 <Zakim> -tinkster
16:27:07 <petef> dka: we need tocome up with a plan for the openday offline by tomorrow
16:27:14 <danbri> zakim, who is on the phone?
16:27:14 <Zakim> On the phone I see pchampin (muted), cperey, MacTed (muted), AlexPassant, petef, Adam, CaptSolo, melvster, evanpro, dka, danbri, rreck (muted)
16:27:32 <caribou> caribou has left #swxg
16:27:34 <petef> dka: how to mesh with SWXG workshop, openid and oauth
16:27:53 <hhalpin> RRSAgent, create minutes
16:27:53 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/10/07-swxg-minutes.html hhalpin
16:28:02 <hhalpin> Oh, can we have an ACTION by someone
16:28:11 <hhalpin> to summarize that call?
16:28:11 <pchampin> bye
16:28:13 <Zakim> -danbri
16:28:14 <Zakim> -CaptSolo
16:28:14 <Zakim> -cperey
16:28:15 <AlexPassant> thanks, bye
16:28:15 <Zakim> -petef
16:28:15 <Zakim> -Adam
16:28:16 <Zakim> -pchampin
16:28:17 <Zakim> -evanpro
16:28:18 <petef> petef has left #swxg
16:28:19 <Zakim> -AlexPassant
16:28:21 <tinkster> I can summarise
16:28:21 <Zakim> -MacTed
16:28:24 <Zakim> -dka
16:28:29 <DKA> good point harry - 
16:28:30 <hhalpin> thanks tinkster!
16:28:31 <rreck> way to go tinkster
16:28:32 <DKA> :)
16:28:37 <DKA> ACTION: Dan to summarize to call.
16:28:37 <trackbot> Sorry, amibiguous username (more than one match) - Dan
16:28:37 <trackbot> Try using a different identifier, such as family name or username (eg. dappelqu, danbri)
16:28:48 <hhalpin> ACTION: tinkster to summarize Evan's talk
16:28:48 <trackbot> Created ACTION-96 - Summarize Evan's talk [on Toby Inkster - due 2009-10-14].
16:28:50 <DKA> ACTION: dappelqu to summarize to call.
16:28:51 <trackbot> Created ACTION-97 - Summarize to call. [on Daniel Appelquist - due 2009-10-14].
16:29:01 <DKA> :)
16:29:02 <hhalpin> Dan - do you really want to do it, or tinkster?
16:29:11 <Zakim> -rreck
16:29:12 <DKA> If tinkster can do it that would be great.
16:29:20 <hhalpin> OK, will delete that from the minutes then...
16:29:21 <tinkster> I'm happy to.
16:29:21 <DKA> thanks toby!
16:29:33 <hhalpin> RRSAgent, draft minutes
16:29:33 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/10/07-swxg-minutes.html hhalpin
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16:34:13 <Zakim> disconnecting the lone participant, melvster, in Team_(swxg)15:03Z
16:34:16 <Zakim> Team_(swxg)15:03Z has ended
16:34:17 <Zakim> Attendees were Carine, DKA, pchampin, cperey, MacTed, tinkster, AlexPassant, bblfish, petef, +44.131.208.aaaa, Adam, hhalpin, FabGandon, +03539149aabb, CaptSolo, melvster,
16:34:19 <Zakim> ... +1.514.525.aacc, evanpro, danbri, rreck
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