IRC log of sparql on 2009-10-06

Timestamps are in UTC.

13:59:08 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #sparql
13:59:08 [RRSAgent]
logging to
13:59:22 [AxelPolleres]
Zakim, this will be sparql
13:59:22 [Zakim]
I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, AxelPolleres
13:59:36 [AxelPolleres]
Zakim, this will be SPARQL
13:59:36 [Zakim]
I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, AxelPolleres
13:59:56 [kasei]
yeah, can't get on the call with the code, either
14:00:13 [AxelPolleres]
now that's weird
14:00:32 [AndyS]
I don't get "please your conf code" part of the message.
14:00:35 [pgearon]
I'm guessing that Zakim sets up the conference call
14:00:35 [AxelPolleres]
ivan, eric, help?
14:00:51 [ivan]
what is the problem?
14:00:57 [ivan]
14:01:05 [AndyS]
and then "not valid *pass* code"
14:01:12 [SteveH]
14:01:14 [SteveH]
same here
14:01:15 [ivan]
14:01:15 [AxelPolleres]
seems we have no valid passcode on zakim and zakim doesn'
14:01:22 [AxelPolleres]
t know about the meeting
14:01:26 [LukeWM]
same here
14:01:40 [SteveH]
could be that SPARQL has elapsed, and the new group doesn't have a meeting slot?
14:02:14 [AxelPolleres]
AxelPolleres has changed the topic to: Agenda:
14:02:28 [LeeF]
14:02:40 [ivan]
eric is not around, I am trying to find out what is going on
14:02:45 [LeeF]
14:02:49 [AxelPolleres]
looks like eric isn't available.
14:02:57 [AxelPolleres]
(he said at risk last time already)
14:03:07 [SteveH]
FWIW, Luke and I are at risk, this hotmail thing has meant were quite busy...
14:03:16 [ivan]
in the meantime we can set up a temporary zakim call, which would need a different code access
14:03:21 [ivan]
would that work?
14:03:30 [AxelPolleres]
thanks ivan, apologies all for the trouble. think that should work.
14:03:31 [ivan]
we can then check what is going on later
14:03:36 [AxelPolleres]
14:03:43 [ivan]
we are around 10 people, right?
14:03:48 [SteveH]
14:03:51 [ivan]
zakim, room for 15
14:03:53 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'room for 15', ivan
14:03:57 [ivan]
zakim, room for 15?
14:04:00 [Zakim]
ok, ivan; conference Team_(sparql)14:03Z scheduled with code 772775 (SPARQL) for 60 minutes until 1503Z; however, please note that capacity is now overbooked
14:04:09 [ivan]
ok, let us use this one then
14:04:12 [chimezie]
chimezie has joined #sparql
14:04:17 [ivan]
zakim, dial ivan-voip
14:04:17 [Zakim]
ok, ivan; the call is being made
14:04:18 [Zakim]
Team_(sparql)14:03Z has now started
14:04:19 [Zakim]
14:04:30 [ivan]
(and it works)
14:04:31 [Zakim]
+ +1.310.729.aaaa
14:04:32 [ivan]
I am in
14:04:35 [kasei]
Zakim, aaaa is me
14:04:35 [Zakim]
+kasei; got it
14:04:36 [Zakim]
14:04:47 [AxelPolleres]
Zakim, code?
14:04:47 [Zakim]
the conference code is 772775 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+ tel:+44.117.370.6152), AxelPolleres
14:04:49 [AlexPassant]
Zakim, ??P31 is me
14:04:50 [Zakim]
+AlexPassant; got it
14:04:51 [kasei]
Zakim, mute me
14:04:51 [Zakim]
kasei should now be muted
14:04:54 [Zakim]
14:04:58 [AndyS]
zakim, ??P33 is me
14:04:58 [Zakim]
+AndyS; got it
14:05:00 [Zakim]
14:05:07 [SteveH]
??P37 is [Garlik]
14:05:17 [SteveH]
Zakim, ??P37 is [Garlik]
14:05:17 [Zakim]
+[Garlik]; got it
14:05:19 [Zakim]
14:05:25 [SteveH]
Zakim, [Garlik] has SteveH and LukeWM
14:05:25 [Zakim]
+SteveH, LukeWM; got it
14:05:31 [KjetilK]
hmm, Zakim didn't ask me for the code...
14:05:44 [SimonS]
Hi, I will not be able to call in, but I will be on IRC for the first 60 mins.
14:05:47 [AxelPolleres]
AxelPolleres has changed the topic to: the conference code is 772775 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+ tel:+44.117.370.6152)
14:05:50 [Zakim]
14:05:51 [Zakim]
14:06:10 [Zakim]
14:06:18 [KjetilK]
Zakim, ??P38 is me
14:06:18 [Zakim]
+KjetilK; got it
14:06:37 [AxelPolleres]
Agenda is:
14:07:04 [Zakim]
14:07:06 [AlexPassant]
14:07:15 [pgearon]
whew! That was hard!
14:07:40 [AxelPolleres]
proposed: approve minutes
14:07:53 [AxelPolleres]
topic: admin
14:07:53 [AlexPassant]
how can I tell zakim that I'm sribing , cannot remember the command ?
14:08:12 [KjetilK]
14:08:14 [AxelPolleres]
scribe: kjetil
14:08:37 [AxelPolleres]
resolved: approve minutes
14:09:06 [LukeWM]
scribe: KjetilK
14:09:23 [KjetilK]
Zakim, mute me
14:09:23 [Zakim]
KjetilK should now be muted
14:09:34 [AxelPolleres]
scribe next time andy
14:09:47 [Zakim]
+ +1.617.588.aabb - is perhaps wonsuk
14:09:56 [KjetilK]
AlexPassant, yeah, that'll work
14:10:06 [AlexPassant]
KjetilK: ok, sorry for the confusion
14:10:26 [AxelPolleres]
ACTION: Axel to come up with a concrete agenda for F2F
14:10:27 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-112 - Come up with a concrete agenda for F2F [on Axel Polleres - due 2009-10-13].
14:10:47 [KjetilK]
Topic: Liasons
14:10:48 [AxelPolleres]
topic: liaisons
14:11:00 [KjetilK]
AxelPolleres: anything to report?
14:11:10 [SteveH]
should we have an e-gov liasson?
14:11:34 [KjetilK]
AxelPolleres: there is something from RIF; it is now CR
14:12:26 [KjetilK]
14:12:42 [AxelPolleres]
proposed: add SteveH as liaison contact for e-Gov xg
14:12:57 [KjetilK]
14:13:06 [SteveH]
no, XG is correct
14:13:10 [AlexPassant]
any liaison for the provenance XG as well ?
14:13:11 [KjetilK]
oh, sorry
14:13:32 [AxelPolleres]
Orri: rdb2rdff starts this or next? week
14:13:54 [AxelPolleres]
axel: RIF is a CR since Oct 1
14:13:56 [SteveH]
oh, no, it is an IG
14:14:06 [SteveH]
sorry KjetilK
14:14:20 [Zakim]
14:14:50 [KjetilK]
Topic: Using Action tracker for task forces
14:14:50 [iv_an_ru]
iv_an_ru has joined #sparql
14:15:02 [KjetilK]
14:15:40 [AxelPolleres]
14:16:01 [Zakim]
14:16:03 [kasei]
ericP: still waiting on cvs access :\
14:16:05 [AlexPassant]
Zakim, ??P7 is me
14:16:05 [Zakim]
+AlexPassant; got it
14:16:14 [kasei]
14:16:31 [KjetilK]
I have completed LeeF's ACTION-107
14:16:33 [LukeWM_]
LukeWM_ has joined #sparql
14:16:58 [AxelPolleres]
close ACTION-92
14:16:58 [trackbot]
ACTION-92 Make a comment making it clear that we intend to merge this content with the old document. closed
14:17:59 [AxelPolleres]
close ACTION-93
14:17:59 [trackbot]
ACTION-93 talk with AndyS on ISSUE-41, closed
14:18:01 [ericP]
kasei, w3c web id?
14:18:14 [kasei]
ericP, gwilliam
14:18:15 [AxelPolleres]
14:18:24 [KjetilK]
SimonS is on IRC
14:18:39 [SimonS]
14:18:57 [SimonS]
cannot call in atm
14:19:01 [KjetilK]
AxelPolleres: has there been any discussion on the structure of the Query and Update documents?
14:19:33 [KjetilK]
...: it is in the works
14:19:45 [chimezie]
Zakim, mute me
14:19:45 [Zakim]
Chimezie_Ogbuji should now be muted
14:20:26 [ericP]
kasei, it looks like i have a couple reqs fro you
14:20:40 [ericP]
will have to look after this session (i'm in a conference)
14:20:49 [AndyS]
See related notes comment for this action
14:21:02 [kasei]
ericP, ok thanks (as always)
14:21:07 [AndyS]
"This is probably not going to be done until/unless were clear on whether the function library will be included in /Query 1.1. [Steve Harris]"
14:21:48 [AndyS]
action #97
14:21:48 [trackbot]
Sorry, bad ACTION syntax
14:23:07 [KjetilK]
AxelPolleres: I suggest we discuss this after FPWD
14:23:22 [AxelPolleres]
PROPOSED: re-issue inclusion of time-allowed features in next iterations of the document
14:23:23 [SteveH]
we should discuss it when we know whether term permits or not
14:23:27 [SteveH]
it's premature until then
14:23:32 [AndyS]
14:23:40 [KjetilK]
14:23:53 [AxelPolleres]
14:23:54 [ivan]
14:23:58 [pgearon]
14:24:04 [AxelPolleres]
RESOLVED: re-issue inclusion of time-allowed features in next iterations of the document
14:24:05 [chimezie]
14:24:08 [AndyS]
(+1 to steve)
14:24:49 [AxelPolleres]
topic: status of reviews
14:25:26 [SteveH]
14:28:06 [AndyS]
14:28:14 [AndyS]
14:28:28 [AndyS]
Reviews of SPARQL 1.1. (Axel and Birte)
14:30:09 [Prateek]
Prateek has joined #sparql
14:30:13 [KjetilK]
AndyS: which documents are we voting on?
14:30:51 [Zakim]
14:30:54 [KjetilK]
AxelPolleres: I think we should do it next time, since there are quite a few regrets this time
14:31:15 [KjetilK]
AxelPolleres: Ivan, should we vote this time to finish it before ISWC?
14:31:18 [LeeF]
Sorry I'm not on the call, everyone - wanted to say that if we think we're ready or close-to-ready for FPWD for Query and for Update
14:31:25 [LeeF]
then it would be great for us to resolve to publish those
14:31:32 [LeeF]
even if the rest of the docs need to evolve a bit more
14:31:40 [SteveH]
Update is not in a state to review it
14:31:48 [LeeF]
I think it's a publicity win to have Query and Update published in advance of ISWC
14:31:50 [LeeF]
14:31:54 [LeeF]
well, even query
14:32:01 [LeeF]
s/even query/even just query
14:32:25 [kasei]
LeeF, ivan says on the call that voting next week should be enough time for publcation before iswc...
14:32:34 [LeeF]
thanks, kasei
14:32:51 [KjetilK]
ivan: voting next week should be enough time for publcation before iswc...
14:33:07 [AxelPolleres]
14:34:29 [KjetilK]
AndyS: the material we are voting on is going to be merged into one single document
14:34:37 [AxelPolleres]
"The final version of this draft shall be integrated with the earlier SPARQL/Query 1.0 document to produce a new document."
14:34:42 [KjetilK]
AndyS: is that new document going to be SPARQL 1.1?
14:35:13 [KjetilK]
AxelPolleres: AndyS asks if we should publish this under the proposed name, right?
14:36:09 [KjetilK]
AxelPolleres: another possibility is to publish this under a different name
14:36:28 [KjetilK]
ivan: I think it is OK to use that name for it allready
14:36:38 [SteveH]
AxelPolleres, I think the wording is fine
14:36:44 [AxelPolleres]
PROPOSED: remove "to produce a new document" from Status section.
14:36:50 [SteveH]
14:36:56 [KjetilK]
14:38:43 [AxelPolleres]
14:38:45 [KjetilK]
ivan: I will look into it
14:39:27 [ivan]
14:39:49 [KjetilK]
ivan: the shortname on IRC is ok
14:40:03 [AxelPolleres]
PROPOSED: to publish as FPWD under
14:40:10 [SteveH]
14:40:21 [AxelPolleres]
14:41:04 [AxelPolleres]
PROPOSED: to publish as FPWD under modulo editorial changes
14:41:23 [ivan]
+1 (W3C)
14:41:35 [SteveH]
+1 (Garlik)
14:41:39 [AndyS]
+1 (HP)
14:41:39 [kasei]
+1 (RPI)
14:41:43 [KjetilK]
0 (Computas) # I haven't really had time to review it
14:41:48 [AlexPassant]
14:42:07 [chimezie]
+1 (CCF)
14:42:17 [SimonS]
14:42:23 [KjetilK]
Zakim: unmute me
14:42:32 [KjetilK]
Zakim, unmute me
14:42:32 [Zakim]
KjetilK should no longer be muted
14:42:33 [OlivierCorby]
14:43:08 [ivan]
+1 (OpenLink) (from Orri who does not have IRC)
14:43:35 [KjetilK]
Zakim, mute me
14:43:35 [Zakim]
KjetilK should now be muted
14:43:36 [AxelPolleres]
RESOLVED: to publish as FPWD under modulo editorial changes
14:43:41 [ivan]
clap clap clap
14:44:09 [KjetilK]
Zakim, unmute me
14:44:09 [Zakim]
KjetilK should no longer be muted
14:44:12 [LukeWM_]
14:44:25 [AndyS]
Which update?
14:44:30 [AxelPolleres]
14:44:33 [AxelPolleres]
14:44:44 [AxelPolleres]
topic: SPARQL/Update
14:45:07 [AndyS]
So this is update language?
14:45:13 [SteveH]
14:45:25 [AxelPolleres]
paul: not quite ready for review.
14:45:30 [AndyS]
Email link is to protocol review.
14:46:04 [AxelPolleres]
simonS, could we get realistically the doc in status to vote next time?
14:46:58 [SimonS]
I think so.
14:47:55 [SimonS]
Paul is up to date again, and I will have time Thursday and Friday.
14:48:01 [KjetilK]
Zakim, mute me
14:48:01 [Zakim]
KjetilK should now be muted
14:48:03 [SimonS]
The todos are clear.
14:48:53 [AxelPolleres]
ACTION: Luke to Review for FPWD readiness
14:48:53 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-113 - Review for FPWD readiness [on Luke Wilson-Mawer - due 2009-10-13].
14:49:07 [SteveH]
I think LeeF volunteered too
14:49:08 [AxelPolleres]
ACTION: Steve to Review for FPWD readiness
14:49:15 [AxelPolleres]
ACTION: Lee to Review for FPWD readiness
14:49:15 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-114 - Review for FPWD readiness [on Lee Feigenbaum - due 2009-10-13].
14:50:00 [AxelPolleres]
topic: http-update
14:50:02 [AxelPolleres]
14:50:04 [chimezie]
Zakim, unmute me
14:50:04 [Zakim]
Chimezie_Ogbuji should no longer be muted
14:50:12 [KjetilK]
Zakim, unmute me
14:50:12 [Zakim]
KjetilK should no longer be muted
14:50:32 [AndyS]
14:50:57 [AndyS]
14:51:15 [AxelPolleres]
kjetil: who is our audience here?
14:51:49 [AxelPolleres]
... do we need all update features or just a tiny subset?
14:53:04 [AxelPolleres]
14:54:26 [AxelPolleres]
Axel: Are all you concerns in your mail?
14:56:45 [AxelPolleres]
chime: all bust last issue could be addressed.
14:57:40 [AxelPolleres]
14:57:57 [LukeWM_]
ack me
14:58:18 [KjetilK]
I propose to not mention the proxy graph identifier for now
14:59:40 [KjetilK]
INSERT INTO <> { payload }
15:00:04 [SteveH]
but that's horribly unfreindly, if youhave eg RDF/XML data
15:00:36 [Zakim]
15:01:37 [Zakim]
15:01:40 [AxelPolleres]
ACTION: Kjetil to draft a paragraph/sentence to put in the document that clrifies "at risk" status of proxy graph identifier
15:01:40 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-115 - Draft a paragraph/sentence to put in the document that clrifies "at risk" status of proxy graph identifier [on Kjetil Kjernsmo - due 2009-10-13].
15:01:41 [AlexPassant]
Zakim, ??P54 is me
15:01:41 [Zakim]
+AlexPassant; got it
15:02:12 [AlexPassant]
scribe: AlexPassant
15:02:27 [AxelPolleres]
ACTION: Chime to address the concerns in
15:02:27 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-116 - Address the concerns in [on Chimezie Ogbuji - due 2009-10-13].
15:02:50 [Zakim]
15:02:59 [AlexPassant]
AxelPolleres: next topic is Service Description document
15:03:16 [AxelPolleres]
topic: Service Description document
15:03:18 [kasei]
Zakim, unmute me
15:03:26 [AlexPassant]
... status ?
15:03:33 [AlexPassant]
kasei: not having CVS access
15:03:37 [Zakim]
kasei should no longer be muted
15:03:43 [AlexPassant]
... but got some feedback from AndyS and AxelPolleres
15:03:53 [AlexPassant]
... some questions regarding the feedback exchanged by e-mail
15:04:00 [AndyS]
15:04:14 [AlexPassant]
... AndyS brought up the point of entailement based on the graph and not on the whole dataset
15:04:18 [AndyS]
15:04:32 [AlexPassant]
... property that discuss the entailement for a graph ?
15:04:46 [AlexPassant]
... on the dataset, or ability to say both ?
15:04:47 [Zakim]
15:04:57 [chimezie]
haven't we essentially made that decision by deciding not to support the user being specific about which entailment regimes are applicable and to which graphs?
15:05:06 [AlexPassant]
... is that necessary ?
15:05:15 [AlexPassant]
AxelPolleres: issue also related to the entailement document
15:05:19 [AlexPassant]
... needs further clarification
15:05:20 [AndyS]
15:05:30 [AlexPassant]
... any issue on that ?
15:05:35 [AlexPassant]
... need to raise one
15:05:57 [AndyS]
15:06:20 [AlexPassant]
AndyS: agree with greg
15:06:32 [AlexPassant]
... common case, dataset have only a default graph
15:07:04 [AlexPassant]
kasei: will it be ok to describe the entailement for the whole dataset ?
15:07:17 [AlexPassant]
... describing default graph, etc. with other properties (as entailement per graph)
15:07:31 [AlexPassant]
AndyS: happy if there is a note in the doc mentioning that there can be graph-based entailement
15:07:35 [AlexPassant]
... that can be discussed later
15:07:57 [AlexPassant]
kasei: pointing it in the realm of service description
15:08:09 [AlexPassant]
AxelPolleres: suggested working for that issue ?
15:08:27 [kasei]
15:08:36 [SteveH]
do we really need an issue for that?
15:08:42 [AxelPolleres]
ISSUE: should entailment-regimes be declared over the whole dataset or indicidual graphs?
15:09:07 [AlexPassant]
AxelPolleres: raising the issue will help to link from the doc
15:09:19 [AlexPassant]
SteveH: worrying about duplicating
15:09:24 [AlexPassant]
... get comments on documents and comments on the issues
15:09:45 [AlexPassant]
AxelPolleres: godd to have it in the doc, but tracker keeps an overview of what's open
15:09:55 [AlexPassant]
... continue the policy that we had so far
15:10:01 [AlexPassant]
15:10:45 [AlexPassant]
AxelPolleres: any other question on the reviews ?
15:10:59 [AlexPassant]
kasei: AxelPolleres mentioned a way to discuss default and named graphs
15:11:18 [AlexPassant]
... will go into a note - ony one property to link a service to the desription on the SD vocabulary
15:11:28 [AlexPassant]
15:11:34 [AlexPassant]
AxelPolleres: mention it in the doc ?
15:11:59 [AlexPassant]
kasei: AndyS and AxelPolleres mentioned an example to void
15:12:21 [AlexPassant]
AndyS: what is normative and informative in the SD document
15:12:53 [AxelPolleres]
to make example on extensibility by other vocabs informative seems good.
15:13:08 [AndyS]
15:14:10 [AlexPassant]
AxelPolleres: mention explicitely (ideally with an example) how such extensibility could include
15:14:19 [AlexPassant]
kasei: ok
15:14:33 [AlexPassant]
AxelPolleres: do not need to agree on a vocabulary at the moment, example vocab should work
15:14:47 [AlexPassant]
+1 for mentioning it as an example
15:14:51 [AlexPassant]
along maybe with DARQ
15:15:10 [SimonS]
void is undergoing revision anyway.
15:15:22 [SimonS]
+1 for AlexPassant
15:16:06 [AlexPassant] is 404 :-(
15:16:17 [AlexPassant]
kasei: will sent tothe list before next t-con
15:16:22 [AlexPassant]
... will try by the end of the week
15:16:27 [AxelPolleres]
ACTION: greg to incorporate an example for extensibility by the end of the week into SD
15:16:27 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-117 - Incorporate an example for extensibility by the end of the week into SD [on Gregory Williams - due 2009-10-13].
15:17:32 [kasei]
Zakim, mute me
15:17:32 [Zakim]
kasei should now be muted
15:18:07 [AxelPolleres]
topic: entailment regimes doc.
15:19:41 [AxelPolleres]
ACTION: ivanH to review sparql-entailment
15:19:41 [trackbot]
Sorry, couldn't find user - ivanH
15:19:48 [AndyS]
15:20:42 [ivan]
action: ivan to review sparql-entailement
15:20:42 [trackbot]
Sorry, amibiguous username (more than one match) - ivan
15:20:42 [trackbot]
Try using a different identifier, such as family name or username (eg. ivan, imikhail)
15:21:08 [ivan]
action: ivanherman to review sparql entailement document
15:21:08 [trackbot]
Sorry, couldn't find user - ivanherman
15:22:04 [AxelPolleres]
ACTION: ivan to review the RDFS part of sparql-entailment
15:22:04 [trackbot]
Sorry, amibiguous username (more than one match) - ivan
15:22:04 [trackbot]
Try using a different identifier, such as family name or username (eg. ivan, imikhail)
15:22:29 [AxelPolleres]
ACTION: axel to enter ivan's action manuallty
15:22:29 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-118 - Enter ivan's action manuallty [on Axel Polleres - due 2009-10-13].
15:23:39 [Zakim]
15:23:45 [AlexPassant]
AxelPolleres: meeting ajourned
15:23:45 [LukeWM_]
15:23:46 [Zakim]
15:23:51 [pgearon]
bye. And thanks
15:23:51 [Zakim]
15:23:53 [Zakim]
15:23:54 [Zakim]
15:23:54 [Zakim]
15:23:56 [Zakim]
15:23:57 [Zakim]
15:24:01 [Zakim]
15:25:35 [Zakim]
15:25:36 [Zakim]
Team_(sparql)14:03Z has ended
15:25:38 [Zakim]
Attendees were Ivan, +1.310.729.aaaa, kasei, AlexPassant, AndyS, AxelPolleres, SteveH, LukeWM, OlivierCorby, Chimezie_Ogbuji, KjetilK, pgearon, +1.617.588.aabb, Prateek
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15:34:29 [AlexPassant]
RRSAgent, make minutes public
15:34:29 [RRSAgent]
I'm logging. I don't understand 'make minutes public', AlexPassant. Try /msg RRSAgent help
15:35:34 [AlexPassant]
rrsagent, make records public
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