IRC log of html-wg on 2009-10-01

Timestamps are in UTC.

15:59:24 [RRSAgent]: RRSAgent has joined #html-wg
15:59:24 [RRSAgent]: logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/10/01-html-wg-irc
15:59:26 [trackbot]: RRSAgent, make logs public
15:59:28 [trackbot]: Zakim, this will be HTML
15:59:28 [Zakim]: ok, trackbot, I see HTML_WG()12:00PM already started
15:59:29 [trackbot]: Meeting: HTML Weekly Teleconference
15:59:29 [trackbot]: Date: 01 October 2009
15:59:29 [Zakim]: +carlos
15:59:44 [MikeSmith]: Zakim, call Mike-Mobile
15:59:44 [Zakim]: + +49.251.8.aaaa
15:59:44 [Zakim]: ok, MikeSmith; the call is being made
15:59:45 [Zakim]: +Mike
16:00:00 [julian]: Zakim, +49.251.8.aaaa is me
16:00:00 [Zakim]: +julian; got it
16:00:04 [Zakim]: +mjs
16:00:05 [julian]: Zakim, mute me
16:00:05 [Zakim]: julian should now be muted
16:00:19 [mjs]: I recommend opening the agenda email to follow along: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-wg-announce/2009JulSep/0048.html
16:00:34 [anne-elsewhere]: Zakim, passcode?
16:00:34 [Zakim]: the conference code is 4865 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), anne-elsewhere
16:00:35 [sbublava]: sbublava has left #html-wg
16:01:01 [mjs]: any volunteers to scribe while we wait for people to dial?
16:01:02 [Zakim]: +Cynthia_Shelly
16:01:14 [plh]: plh has joined #html-wg
16:01:27 [Zakim]: +??P27
16:01:39 [plh]: zakim, passcode?
16:01:39 [Zakim]: the conference code is 4865 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), plh
16:01:39 [anne-elsewhere]: Zakim, ??p27 is me
16:01:42 [Zakim]: +anne-elsewhere; got it
16:02:06 [mjs]: can someone remind me how to get Zakim to nominate a scribe?
16:02:13 [Zakim]: +[Microsoft]
16:02:20 [anne2]: Zakim, nominate scribe
16:02:20 [Zakim]: I don't understand 'nominate scribe', anne2
16:02:25 [julian]: Zakim, pick a scribe
16:02:25 [Zakim]: Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose laura
16:02:28 [Zakim]: +Philippe
16:02:41 [Zakim]: +Masinter
16:02:51 [mjs]: Zakim, pick a scribe
16:02:51 [Zakim]: Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose carlos
16:03:12 [paulc]: paulc has joined #html-wg
16:03:19 [mjs]: Zakim, pick a scribe
16:03:20 [Zakim]: Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose anne-elsewhere
16:03:46 [Eliot_Graff]: Eliot_Graff has joined #html-wg
16:04:01 [MikeSmith]: scribe: MikeSmith
16:04:23 [mjs]: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-wg-announce/2009JulSep/0048.html
16:04:33 [MikeSmith]: agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-wg-announce/2009JulSep/0048.html
16:04:41 [MikeSmith]: Topic: Review of due and overdue action items
16:04:49 [MikeSmith]: RRSAgent, make minutes
16:04:49 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/10/01-html-wg-minutes.html MikeSmith
16:05:20 [MikeSmith]: issue-41?
16:05:20 [trackbot]: ISSUE-41 -- Decentralized extensibility -- RAISED
16:05:20 [trackbot]: http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/41
16:05:46 [paulc]: I have having a hard time hearing the speaker.
16:05:55 [Zakim]: +Eliot_Graff
16:06:18 [paulc]: Carlos: Can you mute?
16:06:36 [MichaelC]: MichaelC has joined #html-wg
16:06:52 [plh]: zakim, mute Philippe
16:06:52 [Zakim]: Philippe should now be muted
16:07:16 [kliehm]: kliehm has joined #html-wg
16:07:26 [MikeSmith]: mjs: continue the e-mail discussion on issue 41, close the action item
16:07:38 [MikeSmith]: mjs: any comments?
16:08:05 [MikeSmith]: action-97: adrian posted proposal
16:08:05 [trackbot]: ACTION-97 Following SVG-in-HTML thread, propose decentralized extensibility strategy for HTML5 notes added
16:08:14 [MikeSmith]: close action-97
16:08:14 [trackbot]: ACTION-97 Following SVG-in-HTML thread, propose decentralized extensibility strategy for HTML5 closed
16:08:26 [MikeSmith]: issue-7?
16:08:26 [trackbot]: ISSUE-7 -- codec support and the <video> element -- OPEN
16:08:26 [trackbot]: http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/7
16:08:36 [MikeSmith]: action-130?
16:08:36 [trackbot]: ACTION-130 -- David Singer to review status of video codec positions -- due 2009-10-01 -- OPEN
16:08:36 [trackbot]: http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/130
16:08:42 [mjs]: http://www.w3.org/2009/09/acc-media-html-gathering.html
16:09:02 [MikeSmith]: mjs: there will be an accessible media workshop prior to TPAC
16:09:09 [Zakim]: + +2134037aabb
16:09:19 [MikeSmith]: mjs: objections pot postponing the date on the action?
16:09:38 [MikeSmith]: action 130 due 2009-10-15
16:09:38 [trackbot]: Sorry, couldn't find user - 130
16:09:46 [MikeSmith]: action-130 due 2009-10-15
16:09:46 [trackbot]: ACTION-130 Review status of video codec positions due date now 2009-10-15
16:09:55 [MikeSmith]: issue-76?
16:09:55 [trackbot]: ISSUE-76 -- Concerns about Microdata section and inclusion/exclusion of RDFa -- OPEN
16:09:55 [trackbot]: http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/76
16:10:10 [MikeSmith]: mjs: Manu not here this week, we can have him give an update next wee
16:10:19 [MikeSmith]: s/next wee/next week/
16:10:28 [MikeSmith]: ... and figure out what the next steps are
16:10:38 [MikeSmith]: action-141?
16:10:38 [trackbot]: ACTION-141 -- Maciej Stachowiak to document Last Call comment process -- due 2009-09-30 -- OPEN
16:10:38 [trackbot]: http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/141
16:10:48 [Zakim]: +Cooper
16:11:01 [tlr]: tlr has joined #html-wg
16:11:05 [masinter]: link issue 76 with distributed extensibility issue?
16:11:05 [MikeSmith]: mjs: chairs believe it's important to document our process for dealing with LC comments
16:11:25 [MikeSmith]: mjs: we are going to have a lot of LC comments, more than most other W3C specs in recent memory
16:11:49 [MikeSmith]: ... we want to be able to have a process to try to deal with most issues very quickly
16:12:06 [MikeSmith]: mjs: we believe we can start using the process now
16:12:10 [masinter]: +1 for documenting process for handling WG members pre-LC comments
16:12:27 [MikeSmith]: mjs: a need a few more days for chairs to complete the discussion
16:12:39 [MikeSmith]: mjs: questions or comments on this?
16:12:52 [MikeSmith]: masinter: I think the process for WG comments and handling also be formal
16:13:01 [MikeSmith]: ... start the process now, whether or not we're in LC yet
16:13:21 [MikeSmith]: action-141 due 2009-10-8
16:13:21 [trackbot]: ACTION-141 Document Last Call comment process due date now 2009-10-8
16:13:33 [MikeSmith]: issue-32?
16:13:33 [trackbot]: ISSUE-32 -- how to provide a summary of a table, e.g. for unsighted navigation? -- OPEN
16:13:33 [trackbot]: http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/32
16:13:53 [MikeSmith]: action-145 due 2009-10-15
16:13:53 [trackbot]: ACTION-145 Update table summary draft due date now 2009-10-15
16:14:22 [MikeSmith]: action-146?
16:14:22 [trackbot]: ACTION-146 -- Paul Cotton to ask for a volunteer to run the testing Task Force -- due 2009-10-08 -- OPEN
16:14:22 [trackbot]: http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/146
16:14:26 [MikeSmith]: action-148?
16:14:26 [trackbot]: ACTION-148 -- Paul Cotton to recruit a Task Force facilitator for the HTML WG -- due 2009-10-08 -- OPEN
16:14:26 [trackbot]: http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/148
16:14:42 [MikeSmith]: action-146: Paul sent email to the list
16:14:42 [trackbot]: ACTION-146 Ask for a volunteer to run the testing Task Force notes added
16:14:59 [MikeSmith]: action-148: paulc sent email to the list
16:14:59 [trackbot]: ACTION-148 Recruit a Task Force facilitator for the HTML WG notes added
16:15:07 [MikeSmith]: close action-146
16:15:07 [trackbot]: ACTION-146 Ask for a volunteer to run the testing Task Force closed
16:15:13 [MikeSmith]: close action-148
16:15:13 [trackbot]: ACTION-148 Recruit a Task Force facilitator for the HTML WG closed
16:15:33 [MikeSmith]: paulc: I have not completed yet the action that requires some discussion with Manu
16:15:42 [MikeSmith]: issue-54?
16:15:42 [trackbot]: ISSUE-54 -- tools that can't generate <!DOCTYPE html> -- CLOSED
16:15:42 [trackbot]: http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/54
16:15:54 [MikeSmith]: action-103?
16:15:54 [trackbot]: ACTION-103 -- Lachlan Hunt to register about: URI scheme -- due 2009-09-24 -- PENDINGREVIEW
16:15:54 [trackbot]: http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/103
16:16:13 [MikeSmith]: mjs: we should file an issue in the HTML5 CR component
16:16:31 [paulc]: BTW Action-147 from Paul is still outstanding (http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/147
16:16:44 [MikeSmith]: masinter: there comments on this that the author hasn't responded to
16:16:53 [MikeSmith]: mjs: any volunteers to report on it?
16:17:04 [MikeSmith]: mjs: otherwise, I am OK with closing the action
16:17:34 [paulc]: I changed due date on ACTION-147 to next week.
16:18:36 [MikeSmith]: mjs: the action came about because we added about:legacy-compat as a part of the "legacy" doctype for XSLT engines to generate
16:19:02 [MikeSmith]: masinter: but the draft of the about: scheme registration didn't even mention about:legacy-compat
16:19:21 [MikeSmith]: masinter: is there a way to track this differently?
16:19:48 [MikeSmith]: anne2: we have a bunch of similar cases of scheme registrations that we will need to deal with, this is not unique
16:20:16 [MikeSmith]: mjs: yeah, we don't need to track this separately, so seems like we can close this action
16:20:38 [MikeSmith]: masinter: point is to check the normative references and see if they have progressed
16:20:45 [MikeSmith]: RRSAgent, make minutes
16:20:45 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/10/01-html-wg-minutes.html MikeSmith
16:21:11 [MikeSmith]: masinter: even of the URI documents are not approved, still want to be able to track -- just asking
16:21:34 [MikeSmith]: mjs: part of what we need to do before PR transition is check all the normative references ourselves
16:21:59 [MikeSmith]: masinter: just trying to figure out how we plan to keep track of the technical dependencies
16:22:08 [MikeSmith]: close action-103
16:22:08 [trackbot]: ACTION-103 Register about: URI scheme closed
16:22:10 [paulc]: I expect we will get LC comments on the exact references and their status.
16:22:24 [MikeSmith]: mjs: any other comments?
16:22:38 [MikeSmith]: Topic: New issues this week
16:22:50 [MikeSmith]: issue-81?
16:22:50 [trackbot]: ISSUE-81 -- Offline Web Applications section should use the term "representation" instead of "resource" -- RAISED
16:22:50 [trackbot]: http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/81
16:23:16 [MikeSmith]: mjs: bunch of discussion on the list, mostly a matter of word choice
16:23:20 [anne2]: paulc, yeah, we just need to check it every now and then, but it goes for a lot of the references
16:23:26 [MikeSmith]: ... anybody have anything to say on this issue?
16:24:36 [Julian]: zakim, unmute me
16:24:36 [Zakim]: julian should no longer be muted
16:24:54 [Julian]: q+ to say that it's also about the spec being inconsistent in itself
16:24:55 [MikeSmith]: masinter: I think I'll comment on the list -- there's the URL terminology but this is separate... issue really is -- if you consider it an issue -- about whether it's a problem to have the same terms used differently in this document as compared to existing documents
16:25:28 [mjs]: ack Julian
16:25:28 [Zakim]: Julian, you wanted to say that it's also about the spec being inconsistent in itself
16:25:31 [MikeSmith]: masinter: and confused use of resource vs representation can lead to problems in discussion of, e.g., conneg
16:26:06 [MikeSmith]: Julian: it's also a problem in that use of the term "resource" is internally inconsistent in the spec itself
16:26:06 [Julian]: zakim, mute me
16:26:06 [Zakim]: julian should now be muted
16:26:12 [MikeSmith]: mjs: other comments?
16:26:18 [MikeSmith]: issue-82?
16:26:18 [trackbot]: ISSUE-82 -- Suggested replacement for head/@profile does not provide for disambiguation -- RAISED
16:26:18 [trackbot]: http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/82
16:27:03 [MikeSmith]: mjs: this is about details of the UA processing requirements for head/@profile
16:27:09 [MikeSmith]: issue-83?
16:27:09 [trackbot]: ISSUE-83 -- Use of the dt and dd elements in figure and details content models -- RAISED
16:27:09 [trackbot]: http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/83
16:27:57 [MikeSmith]: mjs: this is capturing the objection that this reuse of dt and dd extends their semantics
16:28:02 [MikeSmith]: mjs: any comments?
16:28:19 [MikeSmith]: issue-84?
16:28:19 [trackbot]: ISSUE-84 -- Should spec discourage use of "legacy" doctypes? -- RAISED
16:28:19 [trackbot]: http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/84
16:28:59 [MikeSmith]: mjs: we discussed the about:legacy form of the doctype
16:29:19 [MikeSmith]: q+ to ask for clarification
16:29:33 [Julian]: zakim, unmute me
16:29:33 [Zakim]: julian should no longer be muted
16:29:57 [MikeSmith]: Julian, is this about about:legacy doctype or about the XHTML 1.0 and HTML 4.01 doctypes?
16:30:31 [mjs]: End of section 9.1.1
16:30:31 [anne2]: "The DOCTYPE legacy string should not be used unless the document is generated from a system that cannot output the shorter string.
16:30:32 [anne2]: "
16:30:52 [Julian]: Mike, originally the former
16:30:55 [anne2]: -- http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/#doctype-legacy-string
16:32:12 [MikeSmith]: Julian: I raised it because of the about:legacy doctype, but in discussion about this on IRC, the point was made that it doesn't make sense to discourage any conforming doctypes that trigger standards mode
16:32:58 [Julian]: zakim, mute me
16:32:58 [Zakim]: julian should now be muted
16:33:14 [MikeSmith]: Topic: Status of Call For Consensus emails
16:33:34 [MikeSmith]: mjs: I sent a CfC: Create Testing Task Force message
16:33:52 [MikeSmith]: mjs: so if you have objections or comments, follow up to that e-mail
16:34:04 [MikeSmith]: mjs: any questions or comments now?
16:34:21 [MikeSmith]: mjs: I also sent a CfC: Create HTML Accessibility Task Force message
16:34:33 [MikeSmith]: ... but I did not cite the actual work statement
16:34:45 [MikeSmith]: ... paulc followed up by posting a link to the actual work statement
16:35:08 [MikeSmith]: ... and I will follow up to make clear that everybody should review the actual work statement
16:35:09 [deltab]: deltab has joined #html-wg
16:35:13 [MikeSmith]: ... my mistake..
16:35:21 [MikeSmith]: mjs: questions or comments?
16:35:34 [MikeSmith]: Topic: Scribe for next meeting
16:35:48 [MikeSmith]: mjs: I think rubys will be chairing
16:36:22 [MikeSmith]: mjs: I you volunteer to scribe, you will receive many 11brownie points
16:36:49 [MikeSmith]: plh, you volunteering?
16:36:57 [plh]: yes, I volunteered
16:37:00 [anne2]: Zakim, who is on the phone?
16:37:00 [Zakim]: On the phone I see laura, carlos, julian (muted), Mike, mjs, Cynthia_Shelly, anne-elsewhere, [Microsoft], Philippe (muted), Masinter, Eliot_Graff, kliehm, Cooper
16:37:15 [plh]: zakim, who's muted?
16:37:15 [Zakim]: I see julian, Philippe muted
16:37:20 [MikeSmith]: scribe will be plh
16:37:21 [anne2]: Zakim, unmute philippe
16:37:21 [Zakim]: Philippe should no longer be muted
16:37:46 [MikeSmith]: mjs: any final questions or comments before we adjourn?
16:38:01 [MikeSmith]: masinter: there will be an IETF meeting the week after the TPAC
16:38:02 [paulc]: special hotel rate for TPAC expires on Oct 12.
16:38:16 [MikeSmith]: masinter: anybody else planning to be at the IETF meeting?
16:38:18 [masinter]: i'll email it
16:38:37 [masinter]: it's in Japan, MikeSmith
16:38:39 [Julian]: http://www.ietf.org/meeting/76/
16:38:46 [MikeSmith]: mjs: yeah, we should highlight that to the group
16:39:00 [MikeSmith]: masinter, I will probably still be in the US that week
16:39:03 [masinter]: http://trac.tools.ietf.org/bof/trac/wiki
16:39:06 [Julian]: IETF 76 - Hiroshima, Japan November 8-13 2009
16:40:09 [MikeSmith]: [adjourned]
16:40:11 [Zakim]: -julian
16:40:12 [Zakim]: -Cynthia_Shelly
16:40:12 [Zakim]: -Masinter
16:40:13 [Zakim]: -Philippe
16:40:14 [cardona507]: thanks
16:40:14 [Zakim]: -anne-elsewhere
16:40:17 [MikeSmith]: RRSAgent, make minutes
16:40:17 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/10/01-html-wg-minutes.html MikeSmith
16:40:18 [Zakim]: -Cooper
16:40:19 [Zakim]: -carlos
16:40:19 [Zakim]: -Eliot_Graff
16:40:21 [Zakim]: -kliehm
16:40:21 [MichaelC]: MichaelC has left #html-wg
16:40:23 [Zakim]: -laura
16:40:25 [MikeSmith]: Zakim, drop Mike
16:40:25 [Zakim]: Mike is being disconnected
16:40:26 [Zakim]: -Mike
16:40:48 [Zakim]: -mjs
16:41:44 [pimpbot]: pimpbot has joined #html-wg
17:16:00 [cardona507]: cardona507 has joined #html-wg
17:27:53 [gsnedders]: gsnedders has joined #html-wg
17:30:43 [Zakim]: -[Microsoft]
17:30:45 [Zakim]: HTML_WG()12:00PM has ended
17:30:46 [Zakim]: Attendees were laura, carlos, Mike, julian, mjs, Cynthia_Shelly, anne-elsewhere, [Microsoft], Philippe, Masinter, Eliot_Graff, +2134037aabb, kliehm, Cooper
17:33:42 [plh]: zakim, bye
17:33:42 [Zakim]: Zakim has left #html-wg
17:36:59 [webben]: webben has joined #html-wg
17:38:29 [deltab]: deltab has joined #html-wg
17:46:16 [mjs]: mjs has joined #html-wg
17:55:27 [jmb]: jmb has joined #html-wg
17:59:08 [rubys]: rubys has left #html-wg
18:08:23 [deltab]: deltab has joined #html-wg
18:34:02 [webben]: webben has joined #html-wg
18:59:20 [mjs]: mjs has joined #html-wg
19:52:32 [deltab]: deltab has joined #html-wg
20:08:05 [deltab]: deltab has joined #html-wg
20:31:17 [tlr]: tlr has joined #html-wg
20:34:39 [Lachy]: Lachy has joined #html-wg
21:15:39 [Lachy]: Lachy has joined #html-wg
21:23:35 [mjs]: mjs has joined #html-wg
21:24:07 [cardona507]: cardona507 has joined #html-wg
21:41:10 [deltab]: deltab has joined #html-wg
22:02:37 [MikeSmith]: MikeSmith has joined #html-wg
22:09:01 [shepazu]: shepazu has joined #html-wg
22:53:00 [deltab]: deltab has joined #html-wg
23:20:54 [J_Voracek]: J_Voracek has joined #html-wg
23:28:34 [dsinger]: dsinger has joined #html-wg
23:39:18 [gsnedders]: gsnedders has joined #html-wg
23:46:28 [dsinger]: dsinger has joined #html-wg
23:52:30 [tH]: tH has joined #html-wg
23:56:13 [deltab]: deltab has joined #html-wg