14:53:46 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #badtf
14:53:46 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/09/30-badtf-irc
14:53:52 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #badtf
14:53:57 <shadi> zakim, this will be bad
14:53:57 <Zakim> ok, shadi; I see WAI_EOWG(BAD TF)11:00AM scheduled to start in 7 minutes
14:54:12 <shadi> agenda+ Demo navigation
14:54:22 <shadi> agenda+ Report integration
14:54:28 <shadi> agenda+ Wrapper pages
14:54:47 <shadi> agenda+ Annotations planning
14:54:53 <shadi> agenda+ Next meeting
14:57:05 <shadi> agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-eo-badtf/2009Sep/0053.html
14:57:09 <shadi> chair: Shadi
14:57:17 <Wilco> Wilco has joined #badtf
14:59:55 <eric> eric has joined #badtf
15:00:20 <Tom_> Tom_ has joined #badtf
15:00:23 <shadi> zakim, call shadi-617
15:00:23 <Zakim> ok, shadi; the call is being made
15:00:24 <Zakim> WAI_EOWG(BAD TF)11:00AM has now started
15:00:25 <Zakim> +Shadi
15:01:30 <Zakim> +eric
15:02:23 <Zakim> +Tom
15:02:50 <Zakim> + +03130239aaaa
15:03:12 <shadi> zakim, aaaa is Wilco
15:03:12 <Zakim> +Wilco; got it
15:03:38 <shadi> scribe: Wilco
15:03:44 <shadi> agenda?
15:04:12 <shadi> zakim, take up agendum 1
15:04:12 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Demo navigation" taken up [from shadi]
15:04:14 <shadi> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-eo-badtf/2009Sep/0051
15:04:55 <shadi> http://www.w3.org/WAI/demos/bad/draft/2009/
15:06:33 <Wilco> shadi: in the past there were problems in switching between meta pages and demo pages
15:07:23 <Wilco> shadi: we thought to reuse the tab interface to switch back to the sample pages
15:07:48 <Wilco> shadi: eric counters that they are out of place
15:08:52 <Wilco> eric: it works different from in the demo and it shouldn't
15:10:59 <Wilco> shadi: is the disagreement in the design of the element, or is it in the context in which it is used
15:11:24 <Wilco> eric: can't agree on that concept
15:12:14 <Wilco> eric: i think we should only go from the evaluation to the sample
15:12:33 <Wilco> eric: the evaluation can be navigated on the left side already
15:13:45 <Wilco> tom: to me it seems enough without
15:14:02 <Wilco> shadi: we have a link to the demo page at the start, is that enough?
15:14:04 <Wilco> tom: no
15:14:57 <Wilco> wilco: I agree, it doesn't add and could only confuse the user
15:16:08 <Wilco> shadi: we need to think of: recognize that you are still in the demo
15:16:54 <Wilco> shadi: the 'back to inaccessible homepage' link needs to be prominent
15:17:37 <Wilco> wilco: what if we use a screenshot of the demo page
15:17:46 <shadi> http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/2005/Demo/
15:17:46 <Wilco> eric: i like that
15:18:51 <Wilco> shadi: if you look at the previous demo we've also used screenshots that are like small icons
15:19:38 <Wilco> tom: i think the colors are strong enough to make the difference obvious, even if they are small
15:20:18 <Wilco> eric: Before after demo should be in the title
15:20:26 <Wilco> shadi: the title becomes very long
15:21:03 <Wilco> tom: we could use a BAD icon
15:21:37 <Wilco> shadi: the screenshot, it would me below the h1 then
15:21:54 <Wilco> tom: maybe have it next to the first paragraph
15:22:06 <Wilco> shadi: the height can be quite small
15:23:23 <Wilco> eric: if you have a screenshot with a border, and give it a title, you would have a prominent link
15:24:19 <Wilco> eric: you don't have to have the whole page on it
15:25:55 <shadi> action: replace navigation tabs with a small screen-shot of the sample page that links back to the sample page itself (use a read or green border to highlight more)
15:26:12 <Wilco> wilco: have the image on the left and the first paragraph on the right
15:26:32 <shadi> action: float image left, and the first paragraph right
15:27:07 <shadi> http://www.w3.org/WAI/demos/bad/draft/2009/description/before/home.html
15:27:43 <Wilco> shadi: do we need an icon for BAD demo in the h1
15:28:19 <Wilco> tom: put the BAD line before the h1
15:28:27 <Wilco> shadi: do we need more recognition?
15:28:48 <Wilco> eric: It would be nice to have something
15:29:36 <Wilco> tom: can we add another bar to the header that says 'before after demo' on every page
15:30:25 <Wilco> shadi: we shouldn't change the overall navigation
15:30:54 <Wilco> tom: maybe put a line of text above the h1
15:31:08 <Wilco> eric: I would say the same
15:31:43 <Wilco> wilco: I think a subtitle is more appropriate
15:32:44 <Wilco> shadi: so, first the heading, then the subline, then the screenshot with the link next to it
15:33:56 <Wilco> wilco: we should have a subtitle and a screenshot
15:34:26 <Wilco> tom: don't have extra markup for accessible / inaccessible, enough is in the header
15:35:21 <Wilco> tom: make the subtitle bold
15:35:35 <shadi> action: add a tagline below the h1 saying "Before and After Demonstration" or such (consider bolding or otherwise highlighting)
15:37:55 <Wilco> tom: i think comparing the differences should be done in the report
15:38:46 <Wilco> shadi: so if we want to compare the report, is that a usecase?
15:38:50 <Wilco> tom: yes very
15:39:02 <Zakim> -eric
15:39:35 <Zakim> +eric
15:39:37 <shadi> http://www.w3.org/WAI/demos/bad/draft/2009/report/before/home.html
15:39:48 <Wilco> wilco: i'm not even sure what the barrier description would add
15:41:45 <Wilco> eric: i don't think have before after reports compared
15:42:09 <Wilco> shadi: should we have a link in the top paragraph to switch between before and after
15:43:22 <Wilco> eric: i would want to open both reports at the same state, but that's complicated to implement
15:43:41 <Wilco> shadi: I'll put in a link from accessible to inaccessible
15:44:15 <Wilco> tom: how about instead of having 2 reports, have one
15:45:10 <Wilco> tom: in the same place we show the techniques to fix
15:47:45 <Wilco> tom: the problem with the left navigation, switching between barrier description and evaluation is confusing, it looks like an open/close mechanisme
15:49:47 <Wilco> eric: can you switch the levels around, put evaluation and barrier under home page instead of the other way around
15:49:56 <Wilco> shadi: I was thinking of adding a sitemap for that
15:51:41 <shadi> zakim, take up next
15:51:41 <Zakim> agendum 2. "Report integration" taken up [from shadi]
15:51:56 <shadi> http://www.w3.org/WAI/demos/bad/draft/2009/report/before/home.html
15:52:44 <Wilco> shadi: i've changed the CSS a bit
15:53:43 <Wilco> wilco: we should make the links to expand / collapse more obvious
15:54:33 <Wilco> wilco: i'll remove the fold icons under the N/A criteria
15:55:01 <Wilco> eric: in safari the the open/close images are very wide
15:55:23 <shadi> action: (1) highlight expand/collapse links (2) remove expand/collapse icons where no sub-entries are available (eg for N/A)
15:56:12 <Wilco> wilco: maybe add a thin border to the sides of the table
15:56:19 <Wilco> eric: yeah, should do that
15:56:28 <shadi> action: (3) add left/right borders for closure
15:57:17 <Wilco> shadi: wilco can you send a link to the copyright notice of the icons
15:58:04 <shadi> zakim, take up next
15:58:04 <Zakim> agendum 3. "Wrapper pages" taken up [from shadi]
15:59:03 <Wilco> shadi: i would like to discuss with EO if we should have the barrier descriptions
16:01:21 <shadi> http://www.w3.org/WAI/demos/bad/draft/2009/after/home/annotations
16:01:22 <Wilco> tom: barrier descriptions are the same thing as annotations
16:01:46 <Wilco> shadi: we would have the annotations on the barrier discriptions
16:02:11 <Wilco> tom: they are better on the page
16:02:21 <Zakim> -eric
16:03:10 <shadi> action: drop all description pages
16:03:15 <Wilco> shadi: so we won't have barrier descriptions
16:03:24 <eric> can’t come back, wifi doesn’t is not on my site today :)
16:04:01 <eric> s/site/side/
16:05:38 <Wilco> wilco: the outline of the #2 annotation is placed wrong
16:06:50 <Wilco> tom: the annotations should highlight only one case
16:07:00 <shadi> zakim, take up next
16:07:00 <Zakim> agendum 4. "Annotations planning" taken up [from shadi]
16:07:21 <shadi> http://www.w3.org/WAI/demos/bad/draft/2009/annotations
16:07:38 <Wilco> shadi: have a look at the annotations
16:07:48 <shadi> zakim, take up next
16:07:48 <Zakim> agendum 4 was just opened, shadi
16:07:57 <Zakim> -Tom
16:08:19 <Wilco> Wilco has left #badtf
16:08:20 <Tom_> Tom_ has left #badtf
16:08:48 <shadi> zakim, take up next
16:08:48 <Zakim> agendum 5. "Next meeting" taken up [from shadi]
16:08:54 <eric> should be ok
16:09:08 <shadi> next meeting: Wednesday 7 October
16:09:15 <shadi> zakim, drop wilco
16:09:15 <Zakim> Wilco is being disconnected
16:09:17 <Zakim> -Wilco
16:09:22 <Zakim> -Shadi
16:09:24 <Zakim> WAI_EOWG(BAD TF)11:00AM has ended
16:09:25 <Zakim> Attendees were Shadi, eric, Tom, +03130239aaaa, Wilco
16:09:31 <shadi> rrsagent, make logs world
16:09:36 <shadi> rrsagent, make minutes
16:09:36 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/09/30-badtf-minutes.html shadi
16:09:40 <shadi> rrsagent, make logs world
16:09:45 <shadi> rrsagent, bye
16:09:45 <RRSAgent> I see 6 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2009/09/30-badtf-actions.rdf :
16:09:45 <RRSAgent> ACTION: replace navigation tabs with a small screen-shot of the sample page that links back to the sample page itself (use a read or green border to highlight more) [1]
16:09:45 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/09/30-badtf-irc#T15-25-55
16:09:45 <RRSAgent> ACTION: float image left, and the first paragraph right [2]
16:09:45 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/09/30-badtf-irc#T15-26-32
16:09:45 <RRSAgent> ACTION: add a tagline below the h1 saying "Before and After Demonstration" or such (consider bolding or otherwise highlighting) [3]
16:09:45 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/09/30-badtf-irc#T15-35-35
16:09:45 <RRSAgent> ACTION: (1) highlight expand/collapse links (2) remove expand/collapse icons where no sub-entries are available (eg for N/A) [4]
16:09:45 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/09/30-badtf-irc#T15-55-23
16:09:45 <RRSAgent> ACTION: (3) add left/right borders for closure [5]
16:09:45 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/09/30-badtf-irc#T15-56-28
16:09:45 <RRSAgent> ACTION: drop all description pages [6]
16:09:45 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/09/30-badtf-irc#T16-03-10