14:58:54 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #pf
14:58:54 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/09/25-pf-irc
14:59:00 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #pf
14:59:09 <janina> zakim, this will be pf
14:59:09 <Zakim> ok, janina, I see WAI_PFWG(HTML)11:00AM already started
14:59:20 <janina> zakim, call janina
14:59:20 <Zakim> ok, janina; the call is being made
14:59:22 <Zakim> +Janina
14:59:22 <Laura> Laura has joined #pf
14:59:44 <Joshue> Joshue has joined #pf
14:59:50 <janina> zakim, who is on the phone?
14:59:50 <Zakim> On the phone I see Cynthia_Shelly, Janina
14:59:52 <Stevef> hi all, i will not be able to attend todays meet - regrets , have a client meeting. will be back on board next week
15:00:13 <Joshue> calling in now..
15:00:22 <janina> rrsagent, make log member
15:00:29 <janina> rrsagent, make log public
15:00:38 <Zakim> +??P1
15:00:51 <Joshue> zakim, ??P1 is Joshue
15:00:51 <Zakim> +Joshue; got it
15:01:09 <Zakim> +Rich
15:01:55 <MichaelC> zakim, call cooper-mit
15:01:55 <Zakim> ok, MichaelC; the call is being made
15:01:57 <Zakim> +Cooper
15:02:17 <janina> Meeting: PF/HTML_Caucus telecon
15:02:17 <janina> Chair: Janina_Sajka
15:02:17 <janina> agenda: this
15:02:17 <janina> agenda+ identify scribe
15:02:17 <janina> agenda+ Recent Developments: Joint TF Status
15:02:18 <janina> agenda+ Accessible Media Gathering http://www.w3.org/2009/09/acc-media-html-gathering.html
15:02:20 <janina> agenda+ HTML 5 spec documents review http://www.w3.org/2009/08/html5-spec-review.html
15:02:22 <janina> agenda+ WCAG HTML5 Comments
15:02:24 <janina> agenda+ next and future meetings
15:02:26 <janina> agenda+ be done
15:02:41 <Tim> Tim has joined #pf
15:02:51 <janina>  zakim, who is on the phone?
15:02:51 <Zakim> On the phone I see Cynthia_Shelly, Janina, Joshue, Rich, Cooper
15:05:43 <Joshue> ScribeNick: Joshue
15:06:12 <Joshue> TOPIC: Update from HTML meeting
15:06:16 <Joshue> zakim, mute me
15:06:16 <Zakim> Joshue should now be muted
15:06:22 <Laura> Yesterday's HTML WG Minutes:
15:06:22 <Laura> http://www.w3.org/2009/09/24-html-wg-minutes.html
15:06:23 <Joshue> JS: Are we on hold?
15:06:27 <Joshue> MC: Kind of
15:06:38 <Joshue> CS; They will give it around a week.
15:06:46 <Laura> Task force discussion from yesterday's HTML WG telco:
15:06:47 <Laura> http://www.w3.org/2009/09/24-html-wg-minutes.html#item08
15:06:52 <Laura> Maciej took an action to "Issue a Call for consensus email to the WG to approve the accessibility Task Force and testing Task Force.
15:06:53 <Laura> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/149
15:07:00 <Laura> Paul Cotton took an action to "Recruit a Task Force facilitator for the HTML WG"
15:07:00 <Laura> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/148
15:07:02 <Joshue> MC: There is an action on Janina to nominate facilitators (On Paul Cotton)
15:07:24 <Joshue> CS: I want to be the PF designee
15:08:02 <Joshue> RS: The mapping stuff should move into one thing.
15:08:25 <Joshue> MC: The TF when more stable we can chat with members and see what they think.
15:08:43 <Joshue> JS: They seem have forgotten that it is a joint TF
15:09:18 <Joshue> RS: They were looking for facilitators, I am happy to do it for either side.
15:09:32 <Joshue> MC: We need you Rich on ARIA.
15:09:45 <Joshue> CS: Who would be good on the PF side?
15:09:53 <Joshue> MC: Aria also (sic)
15:10:08 <Joshue> CS: Steve F would be good
15:10:16 <Joshue> JS: For chairing?
15:10:18 <Joshue> CS: Yes
15:10:43 <Joshue> JS: The work of a chair is a little different, prioritising and driving it etc, not just technical details.
15:11:07 <Joshue> CS: The HTML people have seen Steve be technical, so thats good.
15:12:52 <Joshue> JS: Most of our people are engaged on critical stuff.
15:13:09 <Joshue> RS: I am worried about the spec being rushed in Oct. Its not ready.
15:14:21 <Stevef> I think rich would be a good chair
15:15:29 <Joshue> +1 to Rich also
15:16:01 <Stevef> CS: thanks for the vote of confidence, I will do it if no one else wants to
15:17:57 <Joshue> TOPIC: Spec Reveiw
15:18:06 <Joshue> zaki, unmute me
15:18:11 <Joshue> zakim, unmute me
15:18:11 <Zakim> Joshue should no longer be muted
15:18:48 <MichaelC> http://www.w3.org/2009/08/html5-spec-review
15:21:58 <Joshue> zakim, mute me
15:21:58 <Zakim> Joshue should now be muted
15:23:07 <Joshue> :-)
15:23:43 <Joshue> Josh to look at 4.4. 4.7
15:23:59 <Joshue> CS: To look at 4.10 Forms
15:24:27 <Joshue> Josh to look at user interaction also
15:24:47 <Joshue> zakim, unmute me
15:24:47 <Zakim> Joshue should no longer be muted
15:26:52 <MichaelC> close item 1
15:27:01 <richardschwerdtfe> richardschwerdtfe has joined #pf
15:27:04 <MichaelC> zakim, take up item 2
15:27:04 <Zakim> agendum 2. "Recent Developments: Joint TF Status" taken up [from janina]
15:27:06 <MichaelC> for header
15:27:08 <MichaelC> zakim, close this item
15:27:08 <Zakim> agendum 2 closed
15:27:09 <Zakim> I see 5 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
15:27:10 <Zakim> 3. Accessible Media Gathering http://www.w3.org/2009/09/acc-media-html-gathering.html [from janina]
15:27:11 <MichaelC> zakim, next item
15:27:11 <Zakim> agendum 3. "Accessible Media Gathering http://www.w3.org/2009/09/acc-media-html-gathering.html" taken up [from janina]
15:27:19 <MichaelC> scribe: MichaelC
15:27:32 <MichaelC> This workshop is on, day before TPAC
15:27:49 <MichaelC> trying to open list of who can attend
15:28:05 <MichaelC> currently a small invite list, and expect participants to make presentations
15:28:17 <MichaelC> think we need at least an API for players
15:30:12 <Joshue> That sounds very interesting!
15:30:18 <Laura> Silvia Pfeiffer's blog has some related info:
15:30:18 <Laura> http://blog.gingertech.net/2009/09/22/w3c-workshopbarcamp-on-html5-video-accessibility/
15:30:30 <MichaelC> rs: <missed>
15:31:05 <MichaelC> cs: Sean Hayes can't attend, but Philippe representing Timed Text
15:31:31 <Joshue> I don't know if I can make it either.. but I may do. Jury currently out.
15:31:34 <MichaelC> s/Philippe/Philippe Le Hegaret/
15:32:01 <MichaelC> the Timed Text approach might fly
15:32:02 <Zakim> -Joshue
15:33:23 <MichaelC> js: would like to have media accessibility move into the HTML Accessibility Task Force
15:33:35 <MichaelC> zakim, next item
15:33:35 <Zakim> agendum 4. "HTML 5 spec documents review http://www.w3.org/2009/08/html5-spec-review.html" taken up [from janina]
15:34:03 <MichaelC> Assignments updated to http://www.w3.org/2009/08/html5-spec-review
15:34:06 <MichaelC> zakim, close this item
15:34:06 <Zakim> agendum 4 closed
15:34:07 <Zakim> I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
15:34:08 <Zakim> 5. WCAG HTML5 Comments [from janina]
15:34:09 <MichaelC> zakim, next item
15:34:09 <Zakim> agendum 5. "WCAG HTML5 Comments" taken up [from janina]
15:34:18 <MichaelC> There were questions raised by Loretta
15:35:09 <MichaelC> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/wai-liaison/2009Aug/0006.html
15:35:23 <MichaelC> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/wai-liaison/2009Aug/0007.html
15:38:17 <janina> scribe: janina
15:38:44 <janina> michael: summary and longdesc -- already in hand ...
15:38:45 <MichaelC> HTML 4 on abbr attribute: http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/struct/tables.html#adef-abbr
15:38:55 <janina> michael: abbr in tables; different from abbr elsewhere
15:39:33 <MichaelC> HTML 5 on abbr attribute: http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/obsolete.html#attr-tdth-abbr
15:41:17 <janina> cynthia: unfortunate it has the same name--is there something that replaces it? else should not be obsolete
15:41:31 <janina> michael: doesn't appear anything replaces it
15:41:55 <janina> cynthia: useful in small number of cases
15:42:02 <janina> cynthia: should carry html4 text forward
15:43:53 <janina> cynthia: we should see how much this is used, e.g. by ssa
15:44:54 <janina> michael: always thought it should be the other way--a way to indicate the longer version
15:46:22 <janina> michael: text needs cleanup regardless
15:46:28 <janina> cynthia: anything in aria? label?
15:47:51 <janina> michael: for solving html problems, there should be an html solution -- aria is a gap tech
15:48:11 <janina> cynthia: but mightn't it be like how we're using describedby?
15:48:14 <janina> michael: use
15:48:38 <janina> cynthia: so is thee a use case for this?
15:48:54 <janina> cynthia: q will be how this is different from summary?
15:49:01 <janina> cynthia: answer is summary is more deployed
15:49:42 <Zakim> -Cynthia_Shelly
15:50:17 <janina> michael: lg's next item was axis -- suggest use scope instead
15:50:50 <Laura> Laura has left #pf
15:50:51 <janina> michael: anyone know how it is used?
15:51:00 <janina> rich: seems we don't know it exists
15:51:30 <janina> consensus seems to be let it go since we don't know what it is
15:52:06 <janina> lg's next 12.3 -- reqs for implementation
15:52:27 <janina> lg asks conforming or not? if not, why the detail explanation of behaviors?
15:53:18 <Laura> Laura has joined #pf
15:57:43 <janina> rich: when iframes are processed for keybd nav, tab order should be doc order from outside to the first item in iframe, ... to last in iframe; then outside the iframe to the next logical element outside the iframe
15:58:34 <janina> michael: perhaps we need a separate section in the spec about tab order
15:58:51 <janina> michael: use of tab=-1
15:58:57 <janina> michael use cases
15:59:13 <janina> rich: yes, we should do this
16:00:36 <janina> lg: asks for marque to default to off
16:00:52 <janina> michael: there are attribs we need to review
16:01:12 <janina> rich: wonder if the changes could affect someone with epilepsy
16:01:38 <janina> rich: may need several attribs to be off by default
16:02:16 <Zakim> -Rich
16:04:08 <Zakim> -Cooper
16:04:14 <Zakim> -Janina
16:04:15 <Zakim> WAI_PFWG(HTML)11:00AM has ended
16:04:16 <Zakim> Attendees were Cynthia_Shelly, Janina, Joshue, Rich, Cooper
16:05:58 <janina> zakim, bye
16:05:58 <Zakim> Zakim has left #pf
16:06:06 <janina> rrsagent, make minutes
16:06:06 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/09/25-pf-minutes.html janina