IRC log of html-wg on 2009-09-24

Timestamps are in UTC.

16:00:13 [RRSAgent]: RRSAgent has joined #html-wg
16:00:13 [RRSAgent]: logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/09/24-html-wg-irc
16:00:15 [trackbot]: RRSAgent, make logs public
16:00:16 [Zakim]: +Matt
16:00:17 [trackbot]: Zakim, this will be HTML
16:00:18 [Zakim]: ok, trackbot, I see HTML_WG()12:00PM already started
16:00:18 [trackbot]: Meeting: HTML Weekly Teleconference
16:00:18 [trackbot]: Date: 24 September 2009
16:00:25 [MichaelC]: MichaelC has joined #html-wg
16:00:52 [Lachy]: Lachy has joined #html-wg
16:00:52 [Zakim]: +jerryEzrol
16:01:10 [Zakim]: +[Microsoft]
16:01:14 [paulc]: PaulC just joined.
16:01:16 [kliehm]: zakim, p32 is me
16:01:16 [Zakim]: sorry, kliehm, I do not recognize a party named 'p32'
16:01:33 [Zakim]: +Radhika_Roy
16:01:35 [kliehm]: zakim, ??P32 is me
16:01:35 [Zakim]: +kliehm; got it
16:01:39 [Zakim]: -Radhika_Roy
16:01:43 [kliehm]: zakim, mute me
16:01:44 [Zakim]: kliehm should now be muted
16:01:49 [Zakim]: + +1.503.712.aaaa
16:01:49 [Zakim]: + +1.251.280.aabb
16:01:54 [anne]: Zakim, passcode?
16:01:54 [Zakim]: the conference code is 4865 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), anne
16:02:02 [julian]: Zakim, +1.251.280.aabb is me
16:02:02 [Zakim]: +julian; got it
16:02:11 [Zakim]: +laura
16:02:17 [Zakim]: +msporny
16:02:34 [Zakim]: +Radhika_Roy
16:02:54 [Zakim]: +Cooper
16:03:15 [Zakim]: -msporny
16:04:14 [mjs]: mjs has joined #html-wg
16:04:20 [Zakim]: +??P16
16:04:25 [anne]: Zakim, ??P16 is me
16:04:25 [Zakim]: +anne; got it
16:04:31 [dtran]: dtran has joined #html-wg
16:04:33 [paulc]: zakim, pick a scribe
16:04:33 [Zakim]: Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose laura
16:04:48 [Zakim]: +Rich
16:05:06 [richardschwerdtfe]: richardschwerdtfe has joined #html-wg
16:05:12 [Zakim]: +[Apple]
16:05:15 [anne]: scribe: anne
16:05:26 [mjs]: hi all
16:05:52 [adrianba]: adrianba has joined #html-wg
16:06:00 [julian]: http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/agenda
16:06:01 [pimpbot]: Title: Input for Agenda Planning for the HTML Weekly - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)
16:06:21 [anne]: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-wg-announce/2009JulSep/0044.html
16:06:21 [paulc]: Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2009Sep/0908.html
16:06:21 [pimpbot]: Title: Agenda for HTML WG telcon 2009-09-24 - CfCs, Accessibility TF, Testing TF, etc. from Paul Cotton on 2009-09-22 (public-html-wg-announce@w3.org from July to September 2009) (at lists.w3.org)
16:06:22 [pimpbot]: Title: FW: Agenda for HTML WG telcon 2009-09-24 - CfCs, Accessibility TF, Testing TF, etc. from Paul Cotton on 2009-09-22 (public-html@w3.org from September 2009) (at lists.w3.org)
16:06:40 [anne]: Topic: Agenda
16:06:56 [anne]: PC: comments on the agenda? missed actions/items?
16:07:01 [anne]: PC: lets assume this is ok
16:07:07 [paulc]: Topic ISSUE-35/ACTION-138: Produce a matrix based on Henri's work [Steve Faulkner]
16:07:14 [anne]: RS: I had one item about drag and drop
16:07:37 [anne]: RS: I want to raise an issue on it
16:07:42 [anne]: RS: can be put at the end
16:07:56 [anne]: LC: I have a procedural question about summary=""; can be put in the end
16:08:13 [anne]: PC: I will deal with those as item 9 and move adjourn to 10
16:08:15 [Zakim]: +[Microsoft.a]
16:08:22 [anne]: PC: anything else?
16:08:27 [MikeSmith]: Zakim, call Mike-Mobile
16:08:27 [Zakim]: ok, MikeSmith; the call is being made
16:08:28 [Zakim]: +Mike
16:08:36 [adrianba]: zakim, microsoft.a is adrianba
16:08:36 [Zakim]: +adrianba; got it
16:08:42 [anne]: Topic: ACTION-138 -- produce a matrix based on HS' work
16:09:20 [anne]: LC: about two weeks ago Steve did a pass on that, discussed it, and has since then not have time to work on it; it will be discussed again the week after next
16:09:27 [anne]: PC: lets move the action to October 8
16:09:28 [paulc]: change due date to oct 8
16:09:30 [anne]: LC: sounds good
16:09:52 [MikeSmith]: action-138 due 2009-10-08
16:09:52 [trackbot]: ACTION-138 Produce a matrix based on Henri's work due date now 2009-10-08
16:10:02 [paulc]: Topic ACTION-143: Get co-chairs to bring forward a concrete proposal for a testing task force (including scope) [Paul Cotton]
16:10:18 [anne]: Topic: ACTION-143 -- on PC; testing task force
16:10:25 [anne]: ACTION-143?
16:10:25 [trackbot]: ACTION-143 -- Paul Cotton to get co-chairs to bring forward a concrete proposal for a testing task force (including scope) -- due 2009-09-17 -- OPEN
16:10:25 [trackbot]: http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/143
16:10:26 [pimpbot]: Title: ACTION-143 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)
16:10:31 [paulc]: Proposal: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2009Sep/0687.html
16:10:32 [pimpbot]: Title: RE: HTML WG Testing Task Force from Paul Cotton on 2009-09-17 (public-html@w3.org from September 2009) (at lists.w3.org)
16:10:51 [anne]: PC: so far we have seen positive items; it seems that creating a TF is acceptable to everyone
16:10:59 [anne]: PC: what we need now is a volunteer to get things going
16:11:24 [anne]: PC: can I email to ask for volunteers?
16:11:24 [rubys]: +1
16:11:29 [anne]: MJS: sounds good
16:11:34 [adrianba]: +1
16:12:04 [anne]: ACTION: paulc to ask for a volunteer to run the testing Task Force
16:12:04 [trackbot]: Created ACTION-146 - Ask for a volunteer to run the testing Task Force [on Paul Cotton - due 2009-10-01].
16:12:31 [Zakim]: +??P1
16:12:53 [anne]: PC: we wanted a way to figure out a way to be a member of the testing TF without getting email from the HTML WG
16:13:18 [anne]: MS: that is not possible because the subscription list of public-html is based on the HTML WG member database
16:14:03 [anne]: PC: what if they explicitly unsubscribe?
16:14:07 [anne]: MS: don't think that will work
16:14:28 [anne]: PC: so the only recourse would be for the TF members to set up a filter
16:14:51 [anne]: MS: most people use some kind of filtering already so this would just be another rule
16:15:06 [anne]: PC: just wanted to make sure that we dealt with item 2 under the proposal
16:15:25 [anne]: PC: as AB from MS requested this feature
16:15:42 [paulc]: The following point will NOT be possible:
16:15:45 [paulc]: Note: We may want to figure out how to permit TF members to avoid receiving WG email.
16:16:08 [anne]: PC: OASIS is ahead of the W3C here
16:16:09 [rubys]: close action 143
16:16:20 [Zakim]: -anne
16:16:20 [anne]: MS: [censored o_O]
16:16:46 [Zakim]: +??P16
16:16:51 [anne]: Zakim, ??P16 is me
16:16:51 [Zakim]: +anne; got it
16:16:57 [paulc]: Topic ISSUE-54/ACTION-103: Register about: URI scheme [Lachlan Hunt]
16:17:02 [anne]: Topic: about URI scheme
16:17:12 [masinter]: there was mail on the about URI scheme this week
16:17:24 [anne]: MJS: he emailed on this last week
16:17:51 [masinter]: http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/uri-review/current/msg01009.html
16:17:52 [pimpbot]: Title: [Uri-review] draft-holsten-about-uri-scheme-02 (at www.ietf.org)
16:18:00 [anne]: MJS: we should probably roll over the action
16:18:10 [anne]: PC: I will change the due date to next week
16:18:12 [paulc]: See report in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2009Sep/0684.html
16:18:13 [pimpbot]: Title: ACTION-103 Follow up on the about: scheme Registration from Lachlan Hunt on 2009-09-17 (public-html@w3.org from September 2009) (at lists.w3.org)
16:18:44 [anne]: Topic: update IRI spec based on comments
16:18:47 [paulc]: Topic ISSUE-56/ACTION-137: Update IRI spec based on comments to Public-IRI [Larry Masinter]
16:18:50 [MikeSmith]: action-103 due 2009-09-24
16:18:50 [trackbot]: ACTION-103 Register about: URI scheme due date now 2009-09-24
16:18:59 [anne]: MJS: I think LM emailed about this
16:19:01 [masinter]: the author/editor of the about URI scheme needs to respond to comments
16:19:10 [masinter]: yes, i'm in TAG meeting but we're about to break
16:19:19 [paulc]: see report in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2009Sep/0982.html
16:19:20 [pimpbot]: Title: ACTION-137 on URI/IRI/URL from Larry Masinter on 2009-09-24 (public-html@w3.org from September 2009) (at lists.w3.org)
16:19:44 [anne]: PC: this one appears to be in progress
16:19:53 [masinter]: i'm not on phone but i can respond to questions on IRC
16:19:57 [paulc]: "Updating due date to 9/28"
16:19:57 [anne]: ACTION-137?
16:19:57 [trackbot]: ACTION-137 -- Larry Masinter to update IRI spec based on comments to Public-IRI (Including those from HTML-WG members), -- due 2009-09-28 -- PENDINGREVIEW
16:19:57 [trackbot]: http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/137
16:19:59 [pimpbot]: Title: ACTION-137 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)
16:20:14 [masinter]: wait, should be OPEN not PENDINGREVIEW
16:20:52 [anne]: Topic: outstanding CfC
16:20:53 [paulc]: Topic CfC: declare WebSockets out of scope [Maciej Stachowiak]
16:20:55 [masinter]: i will do yet another draft, think next monday, that's what i put in the tracker
16:21:02 [paulc]: Resolved without objection.
16:21:06 [anne]: PC: I believe the first one is resolved
16:21:11 [anne]: PC: comments?
16:21:18 [rubys]: action-137?
16:21:18 [trackbot]: ACTION-137 -- Larry Masinter to update IRI spec based on comments to Public-IRI (Including those from HTML-WG members), -- due 2009-09-28 -- OPEN
16:21:18 [trackbot]: http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/137
16:21:19 [pimpbot]: Title: ACTION-137 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)
16:21:32 [paulc]: Topic CfC: Publish HTML+RDFa as First Public Working Draft [Maciej Stachowiak]
16:21:59 [anne]: PC: we haven't seen anyone to object to publication
16:22:08 [anne]: PC: we have seen a lot of discussion on content
16:22:16 [paulc]: Resolved without objection to publish the first public WGD
16:22:19 [anne]: PC: resolved to publish without objection as FPWD
16:23:08 [anne]: PC: I will work with Manu to get the document in shape
16:23:16 [anne]: Manu: that's be fantastic
16:23:45 [anne]: ACTION: paulc to work with Manu on making HTML+RDFa ready to publish
16:23:45 [trackbot]: Created ACTION-147 - Work with Manu on making HTML+RDFa ready to publish [on Paul Cotton - due 2009-10-01].
16:24:08 [anne]: Topic: HTML+RDFa
16:24:29 [anne]: Manu: after speaking with Henri and reading Maciej and Jonas' feedback it is clear that we need to clarify the current specification.
16:24:36 [anne]: Manu: with respect to DOM Level 2 and the infoset
16:24:51 [anne]: Manu: we'll start to move the issues from the RDFa wiki to the W3C issue tracker
16:25:08 [anne]: PC: do you want an action on this or is it obvious enough?
16:25:17 [anne]: PC: the movement of the issues, in particular
16:25:30 [anne]: Manu: I wanted to put them in the RDFa TF tracker
16:25:38 [mjs]: q+
16:25:53 [anne]: Manu: I can email it after the telcon
16:26:10 [anne]: MJS: I'd recommend putting them in W3C Bugzilla, not the Tracker
16:26:23 [rubys]: ack next
16:26:32 [paulc]: tx sam
16:27:02 [anne]: Manu: that might lead to some duplication between the RDFa and HTML tracker
16:27:37 [paulc]: Topic Joint HTML and PF WG Accessibility Task Force
16:27:53 [anne]: s/Topic Joint/Topic: Joint/
16:28:03 [rubys]: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2009Sep/0956.html
16:28:04 [pimpbot]: Title: Re: Accessibility Task Force from Janina Sajka on 2009-09-23 (public-html@w3.org from September 2009) (at lists.w3.org)
16:28:11 [rubys]: http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/html-task-force
16:28:12 [pimpbot]: Title: HTML Accessibility Task Force (at www.w3.org)
16:29:08 [anne]: PC: does anyone have any comments regarding the description on this TF?
16:29:39 [anne]: PC: we handle the patent obligation by requiring members of the TF to be a member of the HTML WG
16:29:49 [paulc]: Who are the Task Force Facilitators?
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16:30:21 [anne]: ACTION: paulc to recruit a Task Force facilitator for the HTML WG
16:30:21 [trackbot]: Created ACTION-148 - Recruit a Task Force facilitator for the HTML WG [on Paul Cotton - due 2009-10-01].
16:30:56 [anne]: MC: can we record a formal resolution?
16:31:18 [anne]: MJS: if we want to record a resolution we should probably issue a CfC on the mailing list
16:31:45 [anne]: ACTION: maciej to issue a CfC to approve the accessibility Task Force and testing Task Force
16:31:45 [trackbot]: Created ACTION-149 - Issue a CfC to approve the accessibility Task Force and testing Task Force [on Maciej Stachowiak - due 2009-10-01].
16:32:30 [paulc]: 7. Topic HTML WG Testing Task Force
16:32:37 [paulc]: Done above under the action items.
16:32:53 [anne]: s/7. Topic/Topic: 7./
16:33:02 [paulc]: Topic for drag and drop discussion
16:33:14 [anne]: s/Topic for/Topic:/
16:33:36 [anne]: RS: the problem we have with the current specification is that it is mouse specific
16:34:01 [anne]: AvK: actually, the specification is already written in a way that it is keyboard accessible
16:34:16 [anne]: AvK: as a copy and paste operation
16:34:54 [anne]: MJS: the current specification dispatches the same events for copy and paste and drag and drop
16:35:36 [anne]: RS: we need to create an issue
16:35:54 [anne]: MJS: I would prefer to start with a bug in the bug tracker
16:36:23 [anne]: RS: who creates the bug?
16:36:32 [anne]: MJS: I would recommend you do it since you understand the issue
16:36:44 [kliehm]: q+
16:36:50 [anne]: You want: http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/enter_bug.cgi?product=HTML%20WG
16:36:51 [pimpbot]: Title: Log in to Bugzilla (at www.w3.org)
16:36:52 [kliehm]: zakim, unmute me
16:36:52 [Zakim]: kliehm should no longer be muted
16:37:04 [MikeSmith]: q?
16:37:04 [paulc]: ack
16:37:04 [anne]: richardschwerdtfe, ^^
16:37:30 [paulc]: ack next
16:37:39 [anne]: MK: drag and drop has been under fire recently
16:37:50 [julian]: http://www.quirksmode.org/blog/archives/2009/09/the_html5_drag.html
16:37:51 [pimpbot]: Title: QuirksBlog: The HTML5 drag and drop disaster (at www.quirksmode.org)
16:38:00 [anne]: MK: I think people have asked to remove it from the HTML5 specification, rewrite it, and handle it as a separate draft
16:38:19 [anne]: PC: so what you're saying is that this issue might be subsumed by drag and drop might be done in a different way
16:38:23 [masinter]: +1 to removing drag and drop, brings in all kinds of stuff
16:38:31 [anne]: MK: yes
16:39:11 [anne]: MJS: lets keep this as a separate issue
16:39:13 [anne]: PC: agreed
16:39:38 [anne]: MJS: Firefox, Safari, and Internet Explorer all implement the current model and it is therefore unlikely to go away
16:39:45 [anne]: MJS: but we can discuss this offline
16:39:50 [paulc]: Topic discussion of summary
16:40:05 [anne]: s/Topic/Topic:/
16:40:28 [anne]: LC: [scribe missed]
16:40:42 [anne]: MJS: the bug tracker should not affect your action on creating an alternative draft
16:40:46 [julian]: one of the bugs related to summary is http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=7633
16:40:47 [anne]: LC, PC: thanks MJS
16:40:47 [pimpbot]: 117633: shelleyp@burningbird.net, P2, REOPENED, 13The use of @summary should be encouraged when circumstances warrant
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16:40:53 [anne]: PC: volunteer to scribe next week?
16:40:58 [paulc]: Topic Scribe for next meeting
16:40:59 [anne]: PC: no volunteers
16:41:14 [Zakim]: -Cynthia_Shelly
16:41:15 [Zakim]: - +1.503.712.aaaa
16:41:15 [Zakim]: -Radhika_Roy
16:41:15 [anne]: PC: adjourned
16:41:17 [Zakim]: -Rich
16:41:18 [Zakim]: -Matt
16:41:18 [Zakim]: -Sam
16:41:20 [Zakim]: -[Apple]
16:41:20 [Zakim]: -adrianba
16:41:21 [Zakim]: -anne
16:41:22 [cardona507]: thanks
16:41:23 [Zakim]: -carlos
16:41:25 [MikeSmith]: Zakim, drop Mike
16:41:25 [Zakim]: -Eliot_Graff
16:41:26 [mjs]: well done
16:41:27 [Zakim]: -jerryEzrol
16:41:29 [Zakim]: -julian
16:41:31 [Zakim]: -kliehm
16:41:33 [Zakim]: Mike is being disconnected
16:41:35 [Zakim]: -Mike
16:41:37 [Zakim]: -Cooper
16:41:39 [Zakim]: -laura
16:41:41 [Zakim]: -??P1
16:41:43 [Zakim]: -[Microsoft]
16:41:45 [Zakim]: HTML_WG()12:00PM has ended
16:41:46 [msporny]: zakim, I am ??P1
16:41:47 [Zakim]: Attendees were Eliot_Graff, carlos, Cynthia_Shelly, Sam, Matt, jerryEzrol, [Microsoft], Radhika_Roy, kliehm, +1.503.712.aaaa, julian, laura, msporny, Cooper, anne, Rich, [Apple],
16:41:50 [Zakim]: ... Mike, adrianba
16:41:52 [Zakim]: sorry, msporny, I do not see a party named '??P1'
16:44:11 [anne]: RRSAgent, make minutes
16:44:11 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/09/24-html-wg-minutes.html anne
16:44:56 [msporny]: rrsagent, make log public
16:45:15 [anne]: chair: paulc
16:45:22 [anne]: RRSAgent, make minutes
16:45:22 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/09/24-html-wg-minutes.html anne
16:45:23 [pimpbot]: Title: HTML Weekly Teleconference -- 24 Sep 2009 (at www.w3.org)
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17:37:07 [pimpbot]: bugmail: [Bug 7722] New: Relationship between <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Sep/0810.html> 4** [Bug 7721] New: Drag and Drop is not keyboard accessible <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Sep/0809.html>
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18:14:23 [richardschwerdtfe]: I hope that defect explains the problems
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20:07:36 [pimpbot]: changes: hixie: Clean up the play() and pause() algorithms. (whatwg r3992) <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-diffs/2009Sep/0244.html> 4** hixie: Add some more obsolete attributes. (whatwg r3991) <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-diffs/2009Sep/0243.html> 4** hixie: Fix error in example. (whatwg r3990) <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-diffs/2009Sep/0242.html> 4** hixie: mention <meter> doesn't w
20:07:37 [pimpbot]: bugmail: [Bug 7721] Drag and Drop is not keyboard accessible <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Sep/0811.html>
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20:37:44 [pimpbot]: changes: hixie: try to tweak the text on initializing the canvas (whatwg r3993) <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-diffs/2009Sep/0245.html>
20:37:45 [pimpbot]: bugmail: "[Bug 7721] Drag and Drop is not keyboard accessible" (2 messages in thread) <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Sep/0812.html>
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21:38:01 [pimpbot]: bugmail: "[Bug 7721] Drag and Drop is not keyboard accessible" (2 messages in thread) <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Sep/0815.html> 4** [Bug 7723] New: duplicate word ("first first") should be "first five" <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Sep/0813.html>
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22:08:08 [pimpbot]: bugmail: "[Bug 7721] Drag and Drop is not keyboard accessible" (3 messages in thread) <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Sep/0816.html>
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23:38:30 [pimpbot]: changes: hixie: Editorial fixes: more mis-xreffing. Will it never end? (whatwg r4000) <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-diffs/2009Sep/0252.html> 4** hixie: Editorial fixes: more mis-xreffing (whatwg r3999) <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-diffs/2009Sep/0251.html> 4** hixie: Make text more clear (and consistent with later similar text). (whatwg r3998) <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-diffs/2009Sep
23:38:31 [pimpbot]: bugmail: [Bug 7599] Either drop the two places that set the "Origin" HTTP header, or update HTML5 to match the Sec-From/Origin I-D (if the latter is stable enough yet). <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Sep/0819.html> 4** [Bug 7697] The type attribute should ammend the Accept header accordingly. HTTP spec is in accordance with the rules here, in terms of the Accept header being non-authorative. script and style elements alre
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