19:29:14 RRSAgent has joined #ws-ra 19:29:14 logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/09/15-ws-ra-irc 19:29:16 RRSAgent, make logs public 19:29:16 Zakim has joined #ws-ra 19:29:18 Zakim, this will be WSRA 19:29:18 ok, trackbot, I see WS_WSRA()3:30PM already started 19:29:19 Meeting: Web Services Resource Access Working Group Teleconference 19:29:19 Date: 15 September 2009 19:29:22 +??P6 19:29:35 +[IBM] 19:29:50 dug has joined #ws-ra 19:29:58 Vikas has joined #ws-ra 19:30:03 Ashok has joined #ws-ra 19:30:30 + +1.703.860.aabb 19:30:53 Katy has joined #ws-ra 19:30:58 I'll drown myself tonight in sangria, made with slice-up fruit and cheap marsala 19:31:08 + +1.908.696.aacc 19:31:28 +Tom_Rutt 19:31:38 +[Microsoft] 19:31:59 +Ashok_Malhotra 19:32:17
  • zakim, aacc is li 19:32:17 +li; got it 19:32:21 asir has joined #ws-ra 19:32:32 Ram has joined #ws-ra 19:33:12 +Yves 19:34:23 scribenick Katy 19:34:25 Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-resource-access/2009Sep/0038.html 19:34:29 Tom_Rutt has joined #ws-ra 19:34:30 scribenick: Katy 19:34:57 Sreed has joined #ws-ra 19:35:09 TOPIC: Approval of agenda, approved 19:35:28 TOPIC: Approval of minutes: no comments, approved 19:35:56 TOPIC: F2F in Husley logistics 19:36:09 Chair: Deadline tonight 19:36:30 TOPIC: F2F in November 19:36:58 Chair: considering schedule and deadline we would probably benefit for this. 19:37:00 q+ to ask a question about Hursley F2F (when appropriate 19:37:18 ... Follwo tech plenary start of November 19:37:49 ... recommend registering by 31st Sept for early bird deadline. Also sign up quick for hotels 19:37:55 s/Follwo/Follow 19:37:58 ack asir 19:37:58 asir, you wanted to ask a question about Hursley F2F (when appropriate 19:38:29 Asir: Do we have enough at the F2F to do business 19:38:52 Chair: Yes, 10 (with phone attendee) and possibly some who have not answered on ballot 19:39:39 TOPIC: Snapshot review of September 2nd docs 19:39:47 q+ 19:39:56 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-resource-access/2009Sep/0039.html 19:40:06 ack dug 19:41:19 Doug: 2nd comment - talks about missing space can't locate the problem, sounds like it's the diffs tool 19:42:07 Doug: Phrase of 3rd comment. 19:42:09 Valid Infoset for this specification are the one serializable in XML 1.0, hence the use of XML 1.0. 19:42:38 Agreed should be 'is' rather than 'are'. 19:43:00 Chair: Have all issues that are incorporated in Sept 2nd review closable? 19:43:15 ... no comment so we will accept them as closed 19:43:40 q+ to ask a question 19:43:49 ... Hearing no objection, we shall publish these as heartbeat Working draft 19:44:28 Asir: Publication in transfer specification has a dangling reference 19:45:03 ... to fragment 19:45:45 ack asir 19:45:45 asir, you wanted to ask a question 19:45:45 Chair: We haven't updated other references and prior snapshots have included references to other specs 19:46:21 Asir: There are 2 references (one in middle and one in end). One in middle refers to dialeect uri 19:46:40 Chair: Does anyone have any objection to us publishing with these links still there? 19:47:34 Yves: We can link to the editors' copy if we want. If the link is auto gen'd to be part of the multi doc publication then we may need to do something else 19:47:55 Asir: That's fine if we can fix with pub rules 19:48:09 Chair: No objections 19:48:30 RESOLUTION: Go ahead with heartbeat publications 19:49:08 wait? fruitful??? I thought it was a boondoggle! 19:49:16 q+ 19:49:16 TOPIC: Action item review 19:49:30 ack asir 19:50:01 Chair: do we have agreement for folk to produce produce action items in time for F2F so F2F is fruitful 19:50:32 Asir: There is only one policy assertion action item open. Should we have more? 19:51:02 Chair: The intention was to base other policy issues on 6403 - that was going to be a template 19:51:22 Asir: Could Doug and I work on the others as well prior to the F2F? 19:51:37 Doug: Yes, so long as we get the template one in place 19:52:02 Chair: Perhaps we could look at 6403 during next week's meeting 19:52:20 +Mark_Little 19:53:01 ACTION: Asir and Doug to aim to get 6403 proposal for next week's meet as template for other policy 19:53:01 Created ACTION-101 - And Doug to aim to get 6403 proposal for next week's meet as template for other policy [on Asir Vedamuthu - due 2009-09-22]. 19:53:44 Whoops - I forgot realise that would actually create another action - sorry Asir and Doug! 19:54:01 That's fine - double reminder :-) 19:54:17 TOPIC: Initial draft of WS-Frag 19:56:08 Ram: I would like to consider dropping the WS-Frag spec and merging RT towards Frag? 19:56:37 something == an apple pie 19:56:44 with whip cream 19:56:48 or ice cream 19:57:03 and cheese 19:57:39 Ram: Reference to fragment goes away and fragment dialect is replaced by something similar in RT spec 19:59:04 Doug: This is more of a structural decision rather than semantics. (i.e. should frag be part of RT) 19:59:59 Chair: This has been ongoing discussion since Raliegh F2F. It is likely that some of the RT spec may come under discussion (based on issues) 20:00:09 ... we may be left with just Frag 20:00:48 Chair: ... We could simply say, is there anything in the RT spec that we need to keep if Frag was in place 20:01:02 Doug: I would like one more week for this decision 20:01:33 Chair: Next week is the deadline before RT issues are addressed 20:01:44 Ram: OK with me too 20:04:18 TOPIC: New issues 20:04:53 ACTION: Katy to create new proposal for 7553 20:04:53 Created ACTION-102 - Create new proposal for 7553 [on Katy Warr - due 2009-09-22]. 20:05:01 RESOLUTION: 7553 opened 20:06:01 q+ 20:06:24 RESOLUTION: 7554 opened 20:06:52 q+ 20:07:09 ack ram 20:07:13 ack gp 20:08:42
  • q+ 20:08:53 Gil: It should be clear to the unsubscriber, you should receive invalid subscription fault but during unsubscribe you should receive this unsubscribe fault 20:08:56 ack li 20:09:08 ... in order to indicate that the subscription is still active 20:10:12 ACTION: Katy to create proposal for 7554 that considers 7553 20:10:13 Created ACTION-103 - Create proposal for 7554 that considers 7553 [on Katy Warr - due 2009-09-22]. 20:10:40 Issue 7586 20:11:36 Gil: It is overly complex to have xs:duration and xs:datetime for subscriptions 20:11:57 RESOLUTION: 7586 is opened 20:12:53 Chair: Is this predecessor to 7478 20:13:11 Gil: They are kindof separate. It has an existing proposal 20:14:07 Chair: Could you provide a link to that proposal in bugzilla for this issue? 20:14:12 Gil: yes will do 20:14:58 RESOLUTION: 7587 opened 20:15:15 RESOLUTION: 7588 opened 20:15:30 7589 20:16:41 RESOLUTION: 7589 opened 20:16:59 q+ 20:17:26 ack asir 20:17:51 ACTION: Gil to produce proposal for 7589 20:17:51 Sorry, couldn't find user - Gil 20:18:02 ACTION: GIlbert to produce proposal for 7589 20:18:02 Created ACTION-104 - Produce proposal for 7589 [on Gilbert Pilz - due 2009-09-22]. 20:18:30 Asir: When do we stop new issues coming in 20:18:41 q+ 20:18:57 Chair: After Last call draft, if we make substantive changes, it drops back to last call 20:19:19 ack dug 20:19:24 ... so I have no problem with new issues but substantive changes will drop us back 20:20:01 Doug: I agree that we need to close issues down but now is the time to step through the specs in detail and notice issues 20:20:15 ... especially as we have spent more time on some specs than others 20:20:47 Chair: If you have any substantive issues against RT, open them now 20:20:59 ... as don't know the frag direction 20:21:05 TOPIC: Issue 7426 IRI or URI 20:21:54 Revision to RFC 3987 that is in progress at IETF: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-duerst-iri-bis-06. 20:22:03 Yves: Other specs support IRI, we should too. Or we should state that each time we use 'URI' we actually mean 'IRI' 20:22:16 q? 20:22:17 Just want to draw the attention of this WG to the work on the revision to RFC 3987. 20:22:25 Doug: This is basically a global replace? 20:22:28 q+ 20:22:31 Yves: Yes 20:22:34 ack ram 20:22:57 Ram: Fine with Yves suggestion. 20:23:31 ... but want to point out that there is a revision being worked upon (3987). This does not change the discussion 20:23:45 ... I would just like to draw people's attention to this 20:24:13 Chair: Is there a subsection that we should be pointing to? 20:24:16 http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc3987.txt section 5 20:24:29 5.3.1. Simple String Comparison . . . . . . . . . . . . 23 20:24:49 ... We need to be aware of code set and representation and that IRI is intended to support many languages 20:26:35 ... but simple string comparison is key here. We are saying that the 5.3.1 comparison may cause a false negative comparison 20:27:03 ... so a comparison would be a code point by code point comparison to check for equivalence 20:27:15 ... Are folks still ok with this resolution? 20:27:59 Asir: Previous specs did not do a global replace. For example, namespace must stay as URI 20:28:09 ... so we need to be careful 20:28:44 Yves: In 2003 namespaces were not IRI enabled so back then we needed to be careful about namespaces being URI rather than IRI 20:29:10 ... but 2006 recommendation IRI-enables namespaces 20:29:36 Asir: but 2006 and 6 has other issues such as xml11 20:29:49 Chair: Need a bit more work on this 20:30:23 q+ 20:30:34 acl gp 20:30:39 ack gp 20:30:47 ... Yves, Doug and Asir discuss on this on public mailing list to get a proposal ready for next week 20:30:52 - +91.98.49.99.aaaa 20:31:15 Gil: I am concerned about the test effort for this 20:31:36 + +91.98.49.99.aadd 20:33:03 TOPIC: Issue 6568 20:33:59 Ram: I have sent a proposal to address the problems with the references in the group of proposals relating to references 20:34:05 Proposed resolution: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-resource-access/2009Sep/att-0037/WS-RA_references_update.doc 20:34:07 Proposed resolution: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-resource-access/2009Sep/att-0037/WS-RA_references_update.doc 20:34:14 and issues 6569, 6570, 6571, and 6572 20:35:32 Ram: I have gone through each of references and 1) make them point to the latest standards 2) decided whether the references are normative or not 20:36:48 Chair: Can we use the technique for citing referencs in xslt 2 20:37:09 yves - i'm getting blocked again 20:37:39 129.33.49.251 20:38:01 http://www.w3.org/2001/06/manual/#References 20:38:58 any chance you could fix it (again) ? 20:39:29 done ;) 20:39:40 here is an example 20:39:40 [XML1] 20:39:40 Extensible Markup Language (XML) 1.0 (Fourth Edition), T. Bray, J. Paoli, E. Maler, C. M. Sperberg-McQueen, F. Yergeau, Editors. World Wide Web Consortium, 16 August 2006, edited in place 29 September 2006. This edition of the XML 1.0 Recommendation is http://www.w3.org/TR/2006/REC-xml-20060816/. The latest edition of XML 1.0 is available at http://www.w3.org/TR/xml/. 20:40:44 Doug: Do we want to point to the lastest or the dated version 20:41:18 Chair: would prefer that we link to a dated version rather than one that may not be yet written 20:43:12 -Mark_Little 20:45:29 RESOLUTION: Above issues 6568/69/70/71/72 accepted based on proposals from Ram. Dated version references and style guide here http://www.w3.org/2001/06/manual/#References for editors 20:45:29 Bob said - s/Non-normative References/Informative References/g 20:46:19 blocked again! 20:46:36 now on two machine! 20:49:19 TOPIC: 7486 Confusion regarding optional Put elements 20:49:44 RESOLTION: Proposal for 7486 accepted and 7486 is resolved 20:49:56 TOPIC: Issue-7478 20:50:06 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-resource-access/2009Sep/0027.html 20:52:13 q+ 20:52:27 ack ram 20:53:56 Ram: Assmuption that the eventing spec has made is that the souce decides what to send to subscriber and subscriber must code defensively. Source may have some resource constraints meaning that it cannot always provide client subscriptions 20:55:09 q+ 20:56:04 q+ 20:56:33 ack bob 20:56:35 ... how should client deal with this? Send unsubscribe? Gil's proposal is one way to deal with this may be others. 20:57:40 Bob: Small server community tend not to have concept of timezones or persistence. 20:58:19 earth-based?? LOL 20:58:22 ... What should client do if it gets a notication but it has no idea why because it didn't persist previous state is another scenraio 20:59:43 ack bob_ 20:59:48 ack dug 20:59:55 q+ 21:00:48 ...restricted capabilities regarding time for small clients 21:01:31 Doug: Subscriber should have control as its the one asking for subscription. Should not be given a random period of time by which the subscription may live. 21:01:36 ack gpi 21:02:00
  • q+ 21:02:20 ack li 21:03:09 Chair: Please add any issues with this proposal and others to mailing list. 21:03:15 -Ashok_Malhotra 21:03:21 - +1.703.860.aabb 21:03:22 -[Microsoft] 21:03:26 -Bob_Freund 21:03:27 -gpilz 21:03:27 -Yves 21:03:29 - +91.98.49.99.aadd 21:03:32 -[IBM] 21:03:36 gpilz has left #ws-ra 21:03:53 rrsagent, generate minutes 21:03:53 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/09/15-ws-ra-minutes.html Bob 21:04:03 -??P6 21:04:05 -li 21:09:05 disconnecting the lone participant, Tom_Rutt, in WS_WSRA()3:30PM 21:09:07 WS_WSRA()3:30PM has ended 21:09:09 Attendees were +91.98.49.99.aaaa, gpilz, Bob_Freund, [IBM], +1.703.860.aabb, +1.908.696.aacc, Tom_Rutt, [Microsoft], Ashok_Malhotra, li, Yves, Mark_Little, +91.98.49.99.aadd 22:12:29 Tom_Rutt has joined #ws-ra