19:59:57 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #au
19:59:57 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/09/14-au-irc
20:00:02 <Jan> Zakim, this will be AUWG
20:00:02 <Zakim> ok, Jan; I see WAI_AUWG()3:00PM scheduled to start 60 minutes ago
20:00:11 <Jan> Meeting: WAI AU
20:00:35 <Jan> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-au/2009JulSep/0048.html
20:00:45 <Jan> Regrets: Jeanne S., Anne M.
20:02:27 <Zakim> WAI_AUWG()3:00PM has now started
20:02:34 <Zakim> +??P0
20:04:30 <Andrew> Andrew has joined #au
20:04:44 <Zakim> +??P1
20:05:54 <Zakim> +??P2
20:11:05 <Jan> Scribe: Andrew
20:11:13 <Jan> zakim, ??P0 is really Jan
20:11:13 <Zakim> +Jan; got it
20:11:21 <Jan> zakim, ??P1 is really Jutta
20:11:21 <Zakim> +Jutta; got it
20:11:27 <Jan> zakim, ??P2 is really Andrew
20:11:27 <Zakim> +Andrew; got it
20:11:32 <Jan> Chair: Jutta Treviranus
20:11:41 <Jan> Regrets: Jeanne S., Anne M., Greg P.
20:12:55 <Zakim> -Jan
20:13:17 <Zakim> -Jutta
20:13:42 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
20:14:03 <Jan> zakim, [IPcaller] is really Jan
20:14:03 <Zakim> +Jan; got it
20:14:19 <Jan> Jan is back with a clear connection
20:14:20 <Zakim> -Andrew
20:15:13 <Zakim> + +1.416.946.aaaa
20:15:39 <Zakim> +??P2
20:16:18 <Jan> zakim, ??p2 is really Andrew
20:16:18 <Zakim> +Andrew; got it
20:17:32 <Jan> andrew can you hear Jutta ok?
20:17:59 <Andrew> Yes i can Jutta ok
20:18:25 <Zakim> -Jan
20:19:04 <Zakim> +Jan_Richards
20:19:05 <Zakim> +Tim_Boland
20:20:32 <Jan> Topic: Andrew's comments
20:20:34 <Zakim> + +1.561.582.aabb
20:20:35 <Jan> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-au/2009JulSep/0056.html
20:20:51 <Jan> AR: Editorial change in B.1.2.4
20:22:19 <Jan> AR: Also an example for Guideline B.1.3
20:22:47 <Jan> Action AR: Writeup modified example for Guideline B.1.3
20:22:48 <trackbot> Created ACTION-186 - Writeup modified example for Guideline B.1.3 [on Andrew Ronksley - due 2009-09-21].
20:23:10 <Andrew> Topic: TIm's Comments
20:23:36 <Jan> Topic: Tim's technique comments
20:23:39 <Jan> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-au/2009JulSep/0051.html
20:24:25 <Andrew> Looking at Jan's responses to Tim's comments
20:24:55 <Andrew> Agree on meta comments
20:25:02 <Sueann> Sueann has joined #au
20:25:30 <Andrew> JR: Suggest changing the techniques document to be called an "understanding" document
20:26:09 <Andrew> JR: Not sure we have the manpower to produce a full techniques document ourselves
20:26:37 <Andrew> TB: We should try and encourage creativity by allowing people to submit techniques, in-line with WCAG 2.0
20:26:52 <Andrew> JT: This makes a lot of sense.
20:27:25 <Andrew> JR: Very hard to write all encompassing techniques
20:28:20 <Andrew> JR: Techniques will depend on the nature of the tool
20:29:12 <Jan> Action JR: New explanatory text about what Examples are suppoised to acheive
20:29:12 <trackbot> Created ACTION-187 - New explanatory text about what Examples are suppoised to acheive [on Jan Richards - due 2009-09-21].
20:30:36 <Andrew> TB: WCAG has an online techniques submission form
20:31:26 <Andrew> TB: How do we make a decision as to what goes in the techniques / understanding document?
20:31:35 <Andrew> JR: Our common sense
20:31:55 <Andrew> TB: Think we need more of a formal approach to this.
20:32:21 <Andrew> TB: Are the group going to be endorsing the techniques
20:32:32 <Andrew> TB: And do we need a disclaimer etc?
20:33:06 <Andrew> TB: If we do have a techniques form we need to state what we're looking for etc
20:33:47 <Andrew> TB: Tools can change so we need to be current
20:34:04 <Andrew> JR: Agreed but some stay consistent as time goes by, e.g. text editors
20:35:04 <Andrew> JT: The distinction between intent and rationale isn't that well defined
20:35:33 <Andrew> JR: It's a fine distinction, we may merge them together
20:36:04 <Andrew> JR: We may move the rationale into the understanding document
20:36:18 <Andrew> JT: Think we'd need to be careful with that
20:36:43 <Andrew> JT: Only having normative information in the guidelines wouldn't aid understanding
20:36:48 <Andrew> JR: Agrees
20:37:36 <Jan> Action JR: Propose what to so with Rationale - keep in Guideline but maybe word as intent
20:37:37 <trackbot> Created ACTION-188 - Propose what to so with Rationale - keep in Guideline but maybe word as intent [on Jan Richards - due 2009-09-21].
20:41:16 <Andrew> TB: Querying use of the word "documentation"
20:41:33 <Andrew> TB: Some documentation can be bad and doesn't aid understanding
20:41:58 <Jan> http://www.w3.org/WAI/AU/2009/ED-ATAG20-TECHS-20090909/#gl-tool-document
20:54:14 <Andrew> JT: Discussing decision support within tools, which is different to providing documentation and help
20:54:54 <Andrew> JT: When you're choosing a technology, brief guidance about the implications
20:55:19 <Andrew> JR: Dreamweaver. Choosing between HTML and XML. How much would Dreamweaver say?
20:59:39 <Andrew> JR: Choosing a Flash video for example, there would be a lot of info that might be required
20:59:56 <Andrew> JR: I.e. captions, audio description etc
21:01:06 <Andrew> JR: We can't really throw all of WCAG / ATAG at the user
21:01:14 <Andrew> JR: There needs to be some bounds
21:01:47 <Jan> JT: Maybe define decision support - to mean just a few points
21:01:54 <Andrew> JT: We can explain in the "decision support" definition
21:02:03 <Jan> JT: Tips or short impact statements
21:02:06 <Andrew> JT: And define some short impact statements there
21:02:32 <Zakim> -Tim_Boland
21:02:43 <Zakim> - +1.561.582.aabb
21:02:47 <Zakim> -Jan_Richards
21:02:49 <Zakim> - +1.416.946.aaaa
21:02:55 <Jan> Next call Sept 21
21:02:57 <Zakim> -Andrew
21:02:58 <Zakim> WAI_AUWG()3:00PM has ended
21:03:00 <Zakim> Attendees were Jan, Jutta, Andrew, +1.416.946.aaaa, Jan_Richards, Tim_Boland, +1.561.582.aabb
21:03:13 <Andrew> Andrew has left #au
21:03:14 <Jan> RRSAgent, make minutes
21:03:14 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/09/14-au-minutes.html Jan
21:03:22 <Jan> RRSAgent, set logs public
21:03:28 <Jan> Zakim, bye
21:03:28 <Zakim> Zakim has left #au
21:03:35 <Jan> RRSAgent, bye
21:03:35 <RRSAgent> I see 3 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2009/09/14-au-actions.rdf :
21:03:35 <RRSAgent> ACTION: AR to Writeup modified example for Guideline B.1.3 [1]
21:03:35 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/09/14-au-irc#T20-22-47
21:03:35 <RRSAgent> ACTION: JR to New explanatory text about what Examples are suppoised to acheive [2]
21:03:35 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/09/14-au-irc#T20-29-12
21:03:35 <RRSAgent> ACTION: JR to Propose what to so with Rationale - keep in Guideline but maybe word as intent [3]
21:03:35 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/09/14-au-irc#T20-37-36