18:49:30 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #core
18:49:30 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/09/02-core-irc
18:49:36 <aphillip> zakim, this will be I18N
18:49:36 <Zakim> ok, aphillip; I see I18N_CoreWG()3:00PM scheduled to start in 11 minutes
18:49:44 <aphillip> RRSAgent, set logs world-visible
18:49:57 <aphillip> Meeting: Internationalization Core WG Teleconference
18:50:02 <aphillip> Chair: Addison Phillips
18:50:06 <aphillip> Scribe: Addison Phillips
18:50:11 <aphillip> ScribeNick: aphillip
18:50:22 <aphillip> RRSAgent, make minutes
18:50:22 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/09/02-core-minutes.html aphillip
18:57:35 <David> David has joined #core
18:58:17 <Zakim> I18N_CoreWG()3:00PM has now started
18:58:24 <Zakim> +??P0
18:59:32 <Zakim> +??P1
18:59:50 <David> zakim, +??P1 is David
18:59:50 <Zakim> sorry, David, I do not recognize a party named '+??P1'
19:00:13 <David> zakim, ??P1 is David
19:00:13 <Zakim> +David; got it
19:01:13 <r12a> r12a has joined #core
19:01:13 <Zakim> +addison
19:01:20 <r12a> zakim, dial richard please
19:01:20 <Zakim> ok, r12a; the call is being made
19:01:25 <Zakim> +Richard
19:02:08 <r12a> zakim, who's here ?
19:02:08 <Zakim> On the phone I see andrewc, David, addison, Richard
19:02:09 <Zakim> On IRC I see r12a, David, RRSAgent, andrewc, aphillip, Zakim
19:02:46 <Zakim> -David
19:03:12 <Zakim> +??P1
19:04:10 <aphillip> Regrets: DanC
19:04:14 <David> zakim, mute david
19:04:14 <Zakim> David should now be muted
19:04:37 <Zakim> -andrewc
19:06:47 <aphillip> Topic: Agenda
19:07:20 <David> I didn't see an agenda
19:07:48 <David> should we add rescheduling for DST soon?
19:07:48 <aphillip> item: the language tags thing
19:07:58 <aphillip> item: DST scheduling
19:08:11 <aphillip> HTML encoding detection 
19:08:36 <aphillip> is anyone reading html5?
19:08:51 <aphillip> Topic: Action Items
19:08:58 <aphillip> Richard: respond on our behalf to CSS on ruby issue 
19:09:02 <aphillip> not yet
19:09:24 <aphillip> check back in a few weeks
19:09:32 <aphillip> addison: set up document edit transition with dan for ws-i18n 
19:09:46 <aphillip> dan has the document, but his editor doesn't work... so getting xmlspy
19:10:30 <aphillip> richard: publish i18n-guide-frameword as (retired, obsolete) WD 
19:10:50 <aphillip> told the change is made but not appearing yet... will keep tracking
19:10:56 <aphillip> will ping Ian again
19:11:14 <aphillip> addison: to write a response proposing new text for html5 immediately following call for forwarding today 
19:11:36 <aphillip> agendum: bidi techniques pub
19:11:38 <aphillip> all: review HTML5 (rolling action item to be reviewed weekly) 
19:11:50 <aphillip> Topic: Info Share
19:11:56 <Zakim> +??P0
19:12:17 <Zakim> -??P0
19:12:55 <aphillip> idna folks just changed their charter
19:13:25 <aphillip> (ping mark for some update??)
19:13:49 <David> no
19:13:52 <David> zakim, unmute david
19:13:52 <Zakim> David should no longer be muted
19:14:06 <aphillip> Topic: Bidi Techniques publication
19:14:15 <aphillip> richard: basically... I'd like to publish it
19:14:20 <aphillip> ... any objections?
19:14:25 <aphillip> david: no
19:14:28 <aphillip> addison: no
19:14:43 <aphillip> ACTION: Richard: publish bidi techniquest document
19:15:26 <aphillip> Topic: DST Scheduling
19:16:34 <Zakim> +??P0
19:16:50 <aphillip> ACTION: David: coordinate getting new dst scheduling
19:16:51 <David> http://www.timeanddate.com/time/dst2009.html
19:17:16 <aphillip> Topic: Language Tags document
19:17:41 <r12a> http://www.w3.org/International/articles/language-tags/temp.php
19:18:10 <aphillip> richard: looking for comments
19:18:13 <r12a> http://www.w3.org/International/articles/language-tags/temp.php#language
19:18:18 <aphillip> ... main change is in extended language subtag section
19:19:08 <aphillip> Prefix: ar Macrolanguage: ar
19:19:14 <aphillip> appears on one line instead of two
19:21:10 <aphillip> addison: written chinese is more complex than that
19:23:13 <andrewc> it depends on how exact you neeed to be with your langauge tagging
19:26:04 <andrewc> generally "zh-Hants" "zh-Hant" fine, but for http://zh-yue.wikipedia.org/ vs http://zh.wikipedia.org/ nee dmore precision
19:26:29 <aphillip> http://www.inter-locale.com/ID/rfc5646.html#choiceUsingExtlang
19:28:22 <aphillip> richard: mark mentioned
19:28:36 <aphillip> ... i had written:
19:28:40 <r12a> As RFC 4646 co-author, Addison Phillips, writes, "For virtually any content that does not use a script tag today, it remains the best practice not to use one in the future".
19:28:53 <r12a> mark writes:
19:28:53 <r12a> I disagree with that. The better advice is 
19:28:53 <r12a> You should not use a script code if the predominant usage of the language is with a single script, and you don't need a contrast to remove ambiguity.
19:28:53 <r12a> For example, either Latin or Cyrllic are appropriate for use with uz, because of 'a'. As another example, where audio and written content need to be distinguished, one can use the "en-Latn" for written content and "en-Zxxx" for audio content.
19:28:53 <aphillip> ... and mark wrote:
19:32:05 <YvesS> YvesS has joined #core
19:32:25 <YvesS> sorry, could not make it before.
19:33:34 <Zakim> +YvesS
19:34:22 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/09/02-core-minutes.html aphillip
19:39:24 <r12a> http://rishida.net/utils/subtags/index.php?find=malay&submit=Find&lookup=&list=0&check=
19:41:09 <andrewc> its a case by case basis.
19:46:04 <andrewc> maybe the rule of thumb is use the minimal langauge tag you need to provide the level of identification oyu need?
19:46:28 <andrewc> which seems ot cover all cases
19:47:47 <aphillip> Ultimately, it would probably be useful for the I18N WG to provide a reference about legacy encodings, superset encodings, and the famous "willful violation of CharMod" in HTML5, published as a WG Note.
19:48:46 <andrewc> they use legacy in multiple ways
19:52:15 <andrewc> slowly working through html5
19:52:47 <andrewc> not yet, but still need to go through a lot more of html5 first
19:54:33 <andrewc> maybe a start would be to write a HTML5 internationalisation cheatsheet based on our existing techniques documents, faqs, etc
19:55:04 <aphillip> use public list to share comments as you find them
19:55:26 <andrewc> ok
19:55:58 <andrewc> although html5 like css3 is likely to be an ingremental implementation
19:56:07 <andrewc> incremental
19:56:24 <andrewc> at soem point the horse has bolted, but at what point?
19:57:34 <andrewc> esp since firefox and opera are starting to implement parts of it already ;)
20:00:02 <Zakim> -David
20:00:03 <Zakim> -YvesS
20:00:04 <Zakim> -addison
20:00:08 <Zakim> -Richard
20:00:13 <Zakim> -??P0
20:00:15 <Zakim> I18N_CoreWG()3:00PM has ended
20:00:16 <Zakim> Attendees were David, addison, Richard, andrewc, YvesS
20:01:08 <andrewc> andrewc has left #core
20:13:43 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/09/02-core-minutes.html aphillip
20:13:47 <aphillip> zakim, bye
20:13:47 <Zakim> Zakim has left #core
20:13:51 <aphillip> rrsagent, bye
20:13:51 <RRSAgent> I see 2 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2009/09/02-core-actions.rdf :
20:13:51 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Richard: publish bidi techniquest document [1]
20:13:51 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/09/02-core-irc#T19-14-43
20:13:51 <RRSAgent> ACTION: David: coordinate getting new dst scheduling [2]
20:13:51 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/09/02-core-irc#T19-16-50