IRC log of mediaann on 2009-09-01

Timestamps are in UTC.

11:57:21 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #mediaann
11:57:21 [RRSAgent]
logging to
11:57:36 [joakim]
chair: Joakim
11:57:55 [joakim]
zakim, who's here?
11:57:55 [Zakim]
On the phone I see +, ??P1
11:57:56 [Zakim]
On IRC I see RRSAgent, joakim, tmichel, tobias, Zakim, wbailer, florian, fsasaki, trackbot
11:58:05 [tobias]
Zakim, ??P1 is me
11:58:05 [Zakim]
+tobias; got it
11:58:22 [Zakim]
+ +49.851.509.aabb
11:58:38 [Zakim]
+ +31.20.598.aacc
11:58:47 [florian]
Zakim, aabb is me
11:58:47 [Zakim]
+florian; got it
11:59:06 [Zakim]
11:59:22 [veroniqueM]
veroniqueM has joined #mediaann
11:59:27 [Zakim]
+ +329331aadd
12:00:18 [joakim]
Zakim, +329331aadd is chris
12:00:18 [Zakim]
+chris; got it
12:00:55 [joakim]
12:01:24 [Zakim]
+ +43.316.876.aaee
12:01:32 [Chris]
Chris has joined #mediaann
12:02:12 [joakim]
zakim, pick a victim
12:02:12 [Zakim]
Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose chris
12:02:58 [joakim]
zakim, pick a victim
12:02:58 [Zakim]
Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Felix (muted)
12:03:15 [joakim]
scribe: Chris
12:03:19 [Zakim]
12:03:23 [wonsuk]
wonsuk has joined #mediaann
12:03:39 [wbailer]
zakim, aaee is wbailer
12:03:39 [Zakim]
+wbailer; got it
12:04:13 [joakim]
12:04:20 [florian]
12:04:31 [Zakim]
+ +
12:04:32 [Chris]
florian comments the ongoing work for the Semudate2009 paper
12:04:58 [wonsuk]
zakim, + is wonsuk
12:04:58 [Zakim]
+wonsuk; got it
12:05:11 [Chris]
different approaches for ontology design are discussed
12:05:51 [Chris]
florian: submission is septembre 7th
12:06:22 [Chris]
florian: feedback is welcome
12:07:35 [Chris]
Joakim: first item
12:07:43 [Chris]
Joakim: Raphael has asked us for a formal review of “Use cases and
12:07:54 [Chris]
requirements for Media Fragments WG
12:08:01 [veroniqueM]
I haven't looked at it yet
12:08:10 [Zakim]
12:08:20 [Chris]
Joakim: who plans to read it?
12:08:23 [florian]
me not either
12:08:29 [fsasaki]
felix can take an AI to read the document
12:08:32 [wbailer]
i plan to read it
12:08:59 [veroniqueM]
I will have a look at the document, probably later this week, before next week monday anyway
12:09:22 [fsasaki]
probably everybody should just send comments to the list, and we can merge them
12:09:29 [fsasaki]
s/AI /action item/
12:09:34 [veroniqueM]
good idea!
12:09:51 [Chris]
action: Felix to read the document
12:09:51 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-150 - Read the document [on Felix Sasaki - due 2009-09-08].
12:10:12 [daniel]
daniel has joined #mediaann
12:10:43 [daniel]
long time no talk...glad to see all of you today
12:10:58 [Chris]
Joakim: next item
12:11:08 [fsasaki]
felix: sorry, very noise today, so I will type ...
12:11:21 [fsasaki]
.. the mail is just FYI, so no action needed for the moment IMO
12:11:26 [Chris]
Joakim: link with Technical Architecture Group
12:11:32 [fsasaki]
.. the TAG will probably come to use sooner or later
12:11:37 [joakim]
12:12:01 [joakim]
12:12:45 [Chris]
action-47 for Werner: ongoing
12:13:22 [raphael]
raphael has joined #mediaann
12:13:59 [Zakim]
12:14:01 [Chris]
Werner: has now a new affiliation
12:14:33 [Chris]
Werner: no changes in work for the WG
12:14:35 [tmichel]
zakim, who is here
12:14:35 [Zakim]
tmichel, you need to end that query with '?'
12:14:45 [RRSAgent]
I'm logging. I don't understand 'drat minutes', raphael. Try /msg RRSAgent help
12:14:56 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate raphael
12:15:05 [tmichel]
zakim, who is here ?
12:15:05 [Zakim]
On the phone I see +, tobias, florian, +31.20.598.aacc, Felix (muted), chris, wbailer, thierry, wonsuk, ??P9, raphael
12:15:07 [Zakim]
On IRC I see raphael, daniel, wonsuk, Chris, veroniqueM, RRSAgent, joakim, tmichel, tobias, Zakim, wbailer, florian, fsasaki, trackbot
12:15:23 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate raphael
12:16:14 [Chris]
raphael: works now as invited expert for the WG due to new employer
12:17:12 [fsasaki]
felix: this is ongoing, please keep it open
12:17:27 [fsasaki]
.. I have to go through the tables again to check
12:17:37 [raphael]
thanks to Veronique and Felix for providing comments on the Media Fragments WD, please, send your comments to our list
12:17:38 [Chris]
action-124 for felix: ongoing
12:17:59 [raphael]
Topic: review of action items
12:18:05 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate raphael
12:18:16 [Chris]
close action-130
12:18:16 [trackbot]
ACTION-130 Create an XSL transformation for the format mapping sheets closed
12:18:24 [raphael]
trackbot, start telecon
12:18:26 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs public
12:18:28 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be MAWG
12:18:28 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot, I see IA_MAWG()8:00AM already started
12:18:29 [trackbot]
Meeting: Media Annotations Working Group Teleconference
12:18:29 [trackbot]
Date: 01 September 2009
12:18:44 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate raphael
12:18:47 [Chris]
close action-131
12:18:48 [trackbot]
ACTION-131 Add a datatype column to the format mapping sheets closed
12:18:58 [Chris]
close action-132
12:18:58 [trackbot]
ACTION-132 Add a column for XPath expressions to the format sheets closed
12:19:19 [raphael]
12:19:30 [Chris]
action-134 for David:
12:19:56 [Chris]
action-134 for David: ongoing
12:20:07 [raphael]
s/first item/Topic: Media Fragments WD review
12:20:11 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate raphael
12:20:26 [Chris]
action-135 for David: ongoing
12:20:49 [Chris]
action-136 for Joakim: added proposal on the wiki
12:21:16 [Chris]
12:22:13 [Chris]
werner: wonders if all relation types are needed
12:22:58 [Chris]
Joakim: will review the relation types for creator and contributor
12:23:13 [Chris]
action-136 for Joakim: ongoing
12:23:55 [Chris]
Werner: added grouping in the main summary table
12:24:01 [Chris]
Werner: asks for feedback
12:24:15 [joakim]
12:24:45 [florian]
+1 (grouping)
12:25:07 [Chris]
Werner: should we apply the grouping for all other tables?
12:25:25 [raphael]
+1 for grouping
12:25:33 [Chris]
12:25:34 [veroniqueM]
I think that it makes sense and would improve the readability of the table
12:25:39 [veroniqueM]
12:25:46 [wonsuk]
12:25:58 [fsasaki]
12:26:45 [Chris]
Joakim: is the summary table mature enough to extend it to all tables?
12:26:58 [Chris]
close action-137
12:26:58 [trackbot]
ACTION-137 Update attributes table closed
12:28:13 [Chris]
close action-145
12:28:13 [trackbot]
ACTION-145 Elaborate on the API return types (structured and unstructured) by providing examples closed
12:28:25 [Chris]
close action-146
12:28:25 [trackbot]
ACTION-146 Define sub-types for the different properties closed
12:28:49 [raphael]
12:28:50 [trackbot]
ACTION-148 -- WonSuk Lee to start work and collaboration on the API draft document -- due 2009-07-03 -- OPEN
12:28:50 [trackbot]
12:29:05 [raphael]
12:29:05 [trackbot]
ACTION-147 -- Thierry Michel to check status of Web IDL for web api's -- due 2009-07-03 -- OPEN
12:29:05 [trackbot]
12:29:33 [Chris]
Thierry: no clear view yet when new working draft will be published
12:29:48 [Chris]
Thierry: will contact them again and report
12:29:57 [Chris]
action-147 for Thierry: ongoing
12:30:04 [raphael]
s/new working draft/new working draft from the WebApp WG
12:30:50 [Chris]
Wonsuk: work started on the API draft document
12:31:15 [Chris]
Wonsuk: proposed description of each section in the document
12:31:46 [Chris]
Wonsuk: first draft should be made by 15th of September
12:32:11 [Chris]
action-148 for Wonsuk: ongoing
12:32:34 [raphael]
12:32:34 [trackbot]
ACTION-149 -- David Singer to review of whole of ontology doc with veronique -- due 2009-07-28 -- OPEN
12:32:34 [trackbot]
12:32:55 [Chris]
Veronique: will have a look by next week
12:33:12 [Chris]
action-149 for David (and Veronique): ongoing
12:33:58 [joakim]
12:34:08 [fsasaki]
Felix: I have to leave soon, but Dave already answered my questions about already, If you have further feedback about and whether it implements correctly , it would be great
12:34:11 [raphael]
Could we edit this action into a more meaningful label? such as: Felix to review the Media Fragments WD ?
12:34:24 [joakim]
12:36:37 [raphael]
Topic: API Design
12:36:47 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate raphael
12:36:56 [Chris]
Florian: IDL seems best for first step
12:37:15 [Chris]
Florian: afterwards we could use other language like Java or ECMAScript
12:37:39 [Chris]
12:37:54 [fsasaki]
12:38:04 [wonsuk]
12:38:12 [Chris]
Topic: Feed back from PFWG
12:38:15 [florian]
12:38:47 [joakim]
We request that you provide a property to indicate the location of alternate versions
12:39:28 [Chris]
Joakim: no response has been given to the Protocols and Formats WG
12:39:40 [raphael]
What is the range of the DCMI isFormatOf property ? is it a litteral or a URI of the mime type ?
12:40:28 [Zakim]
12:41:19 [Chris]
Werner: the question posed by the PFWG is not really clear
12:42:11 [Chris]
Werner: the meaning of "alternate version" is vague
12:43:18 [Chris]
Werner: will forward an answer to the mailing list for approval
12:44:12 [Chris]
action: Werner to formulate an answer on the feed back from PFWG (Protocols and Formats WG)
12:44:12 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-151 - Formulate an answer on the feed back from PFWG (Protocols and Formats WG) [on Werner Bailer - due 2009-09-08].
12:46:51 [joakim]
0. abstract à need to make first draft
12:46:53 [joakim]
1. Introduction à need to make first draft
12:46:55 [joakim]
2. Terminology à firstly add the terms from ontology doc if we need. And then add additional terms if we need.
12:46:57 [joakim]
3. Data type Description à Do anyone have ideas ?
12:46:58 [raphael]
Topic: First WD of API DOC
12:46:58 [Chris]
Topic: First WD of API doc
12:46:59 [joakim]
4. API Description à After referred Strawman API design and notes page[1] in wiki, describe draft APIs based on the core properties of ontology doc.
12:47:01 [joakim]
5. Examples of how to use the API(in Java for example(chris), web IDL) à I think it could be covered later after mature of APIs.
12:47:07 [tobias]
@Raphael: isFormatOf has domain/range; this is defined in the domain/range document issued in in 2007:
12:47:30 [raphael]
Joakim: we look for more editors of this doc
12:47:35 [Chris]
Joakim: who is working on the document now
12:47:46 [Chris]
Wonsuk: Florian, Victor, and Chris
12:48:13 [Chris]
Wonsuk: looking for volunteers for each part
12:48:43 [Chris]
Wonsuk: asks feedback on the initial structure of the API doc
12:49:18 [Chris]
Joakim: should we decide who works on which section now?
12:49:36 [Chris]
Florian: maybe it is a bit too early?
12:49:54 [daniel]
I recommend to continue this activity in mailing list
12:50:01 [veroniqueM]
I think that the paper that some of us are co-writing could be a nice starting point for the API document
12:50:01 [raphael]
Is the goal of this doc to document the API ?
12:50:17 [raphael]
what would be its status ? a note ?
12:50:45 [veroniqueM]
I thought it would be to describe the principles under which the possible implementations are done
12:51:38 [Chris]
Raphael: is the document only technical (like produced by javadoc) or to explain the entire API in all it's aspects?
12:52:32 [Chris]
Raphael: if it is a guide for implementations it is not really appropriate as a recommendation
12:53:07 [Chris]
Joakim: the document should result in a recommendation
12:53:42 [Chris]
Wonsuk: the goal is to define the API to handle the metadata formats
12:55:02 [veroniqueM]
I think that it is important to describe the API in the fashion of the draft paper
12:55:38 [Chris]
Joakim: are we obliged to make a recommendation
12:55:44 [Chris]
Thierry: yes
12:56:17 [veroniqueM]
I could not understand Daniel
12:56:56 [veroniqueM]
we have to know what to put in the document for it to be a recommendation sometime :)
12:57:00 [Chris]
Joakim: we need to have a concrete plan for the document
12:57:05 [florian]
+1 @ vero
12:57:07 [veroniqueM]
we should know what to write...
12:57:35 [florian]
that?s exactly what i wanted to say a few minutes ago
12:57:39 [Chris]
Raphael: when the ontology changes the API needs to change accordingly
12:57:54 [Chris]
Joakim: yes, there is a direct link
12:58:14 [Chris]
Raphael: why not use same structure as ontology document
12:58:30 [Chris]
Raphael: grouping properties like in the ontology
13:00:03 [Chris]
Wonsuk: we could use the Semudate paper as a starting base for the API document
13:00:40 [Chris]
Joakim: let's put the deadline on the outline on end of this week
13:00:46 [veroniqueM]
I think we should simply remove what is not relevant in this paper for the API document and see what needs to be written
13:01:34 [Chris]
Wonsuk: we should continue this discussion by email
13:03:12 [Chris]
Florian: there are to much undefined topics in the document
13:03:54 [Chris]
maybe somebody should try defining the content of the sections to move on?
13:05:07 [florian]
13:05:26 [raphael]
s/to much/too much
13:05:49 [raphael]
+1 for someone to better identify the content of each section to move on
13:06:09 [Chris]
Joakim: maybe we can start on some sections
13:06:13 [tobias]
13:06:42 [veroniqueM]
13:06:44 [Chris]
Wonsuk: volunteers for section 4
13:07:49 [Chris]
Joakim: Wonsuk can provide a first version of section 4 (API description)
13:07:56 [raphael]
I had a look at other W3C spec, for example the OWLspecification, which also has developed an API
13:08:06 [raphael]
note that this API is not part of the spec
13:08:16 [raphael]
but the spec contains some general guidelines for the API, see
13:08:37 [veroniqueM]
+1 to Florian: we should get the content written first, then write the introduction and abstract once we agree on the content
13:08:38 [raphael]
in OWL vocab, this is an Annex: Rules of Thumb for OWL DL ontologies
13:09:09 [daniel]
This is over...let's keep working on that issue in mailing list
13:09:37 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate raphael
13:09:52 [raphael]
Chris: you have normative and non-normative annex
13:10:09 [raphael]
... so if your question is about the status of the annex, then it depends :-)
13:10:50 [Chris]
Veronique: we can describe the API on high level for now as it is done in the paper
13:10:52 [tobias]
there is an API specification document by the Geolocation people which has been recently released:
13:10:55 [joakim]
13:11:51 [raphael]
+1 tobias, and a rec track document
13:12:11 [Chris]
Joakim: Wonsuk will make draft for section 4
13:12:27 [joakim]
13:12:28 [Zakim]
13:12:29 [Zakim]
13:12:29 [Zakim]
13:12:32 [Zakim]
13:12:33 [Zakim]
13:12:37 [Zakim]
13:12:40 [Zakim]
13:12:45 [Zakim]
- +
13:12:47 [Zakim]
- +31.20.598.aacc
13:12:52 [raphael]
13:13:08 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate raphael
13:13:17 [raphael]
zakim, bye
13:13:17 [Zakim]
leaving. As of this point the attendees were +, tobias, +49.851.509.aabb, +31.20.598.aacc, florian, [IPcaller], Felix, chris, +43.316.876.aaee, thierry, wbailer,
13:13:17 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #mediaann
13:13:18 [florian]
13:13:20 [Zakim]
... wonsuk, raphael
13:13:27 [florian]
vicotr is writting an api paper
13:13:31 [florian]
you should talk to him ;)
13:13:45 [raphael]
ah! victor from Spain ?
13:13:56 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate raphael
13:15:16 [raphael]
Presents: Chris, Daniel, Joakim, Florian, Veronique, Tobias, Raphael, Wonsuk, Werner
13:15:19 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate raphael
13:15:23 [raphael]
RRSAgent, bye
13:15:23 [RRSAgent]
I see 2 open action items saved in :
13:15:23 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Felix to read the document [1]
13:15:23 [RRSAgent]
recorded in
13:15:23 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Werner to formulate an answer on the feed back from PFWG (Protocols and Formats WG) [2]
13:15:23 [RRSAgent]
recorded in