19:49:53 RRSAgent has joined #au 19:49:53 logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/08/31-au-irc 19:49:58 Zakim, this will be AUWG 19:49:58 ok, Jan; I see WAI_AUWG()3:00PM scheduled to start 49 minutes ago 19:50:04 Meeting: WAI AU 19:50:13 Chair: Jutta Treviranus 19:50:38 Agenda:http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-au/2009JulSep/0040.html 19:51:04 Regrets: Andrew R. 20:00:13 zakim, code? 20:00:13 the conference code is 2894 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), Jan 20:00:23 WAI_AUWG()3:00PM has now started 20:00:30 +Jeanne 20:00:33 jeanne has joined #au 20:01:06 +??P1 20:01:27 zakim, ??P1 is really Jan 20:01:27 +Jan; got it 20:09:54 +Tim_Boland 20:10:27 +SueAnnN 20:13:16 Sueann has joined #au 20:13:29 +[IPcaller] 20:14:39 http://www.w3.org/WAI/AU/2009/ED-ATAG20-20090615/atag20_pubWD_21may2009_comment_responses.html 20:15:03 zakim, [IPcaller] is really Jutta 20:15:03 +Jutta; got it 20:16:24 Chair: Jan Richards 20:16:43 present+ Jan, Jeanne, Sueann, Tim, Jutta 20:16:43 Topic: 1- Techniques review check-in 20:16:57 regrets+ Andrew 20:17:06 TB: TB started...something in 2 weeks 20:17:52 SN: A3.3-A3-1 Has started - not quite done 20:18:11 JS: A1...started but not completed 20:20:21 Topic: Proposed SC B.2.1.X 20:20:43 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-au/2009JulSep/0041.html 20:21:01 JT: Basically we had further discusion... 20:21:21 JT: ATAG Part B always about 5 strategies... 20:21:31 JT: Anything tool does automatically is accessible 20:21:45 JT: (2) to provide author with info and decision support 20:22:08 JT: prior to things being inserted, decided 20:22:28 JT: Argument for is that this is the least coslty and the most inobtrusive 20:22:36 JT: Greatest educational opportunity 20:22:44 JT: (3) checking 20:22:57 JT: (4) repair 20:23:05 JT: (5) integrated 20:23:32 JT: When we did the last go-through of Part B we eliminated things from (2).... 20:23:47 JT: Good reasons due to developers doing good work in checking... 20:24:00 JT: But I still don't think it is good to eliminate decision support 20:24:11 JT: Big challenge...how do you know you have done itt? 20:24:20 JT: Success critieria... 20:24:45 JT: Fairly context dependent .... needs to follow (5) very closely 20:25:23 JT: We would either be very specific or very general....but extreme specifity is brittle...we need to be more generic 20:26:04 JT: Question of how you know you have passed...most likely to be stated in an "at minimum" manner... 20:26:22 JT: We want to encourage but won't be minutely testable 20:26:40 JT: Won't be able to have a test to meet the full spirit 20:26:51 JT: TYpes of things I'm thinking... 20:27:28 JT: things that answer questions: what are the accessibility implications of making this choice? what will i need to do to make this technology/markup/element/component accessible? 20:27:45 JT: what accessibility support does this technology/markup/element/component provide? 20:28:18 JTL In a Web App development toolkit this may be met by an indication of 20:28:20 which components or component sets offered include ARIA markup. 20:28:21 In a generic Web content development tool this may be met by 20:28:23 indicating how captions can be included in Flash vs. Quicktime vs. 20:28:24 Real etc. 20:28:26 In a Wiki editing tool this may be met by indicating that the html 20:28:27 based styling mechanisms are more accessible. 20:29:39 JT: At the moment I'm trying to come up with wording for measurable success criteria 20:29:51 JT: TB thoughts? 20:30:26 B.2.1.X Decision Support: If the authoring tool presents choices to the author(s), provide information to assist the author in making choices that enable the content to conform to WCAG 2.0. (Level A) 20:31:29 TB: So tool must inform the author, prior to choice of accessibility implications? 20:31:40 JT: Yes could be very unobtrusive 20:33:29 JR: Concerned about scope if applies to all choices 20:35:24 JT: Maybe at minimum...there are sso many advisories etc. 20:35:53 JT: Hopefully some developers take it to heart so that strict testability not that important 20:37:10 JT: At minimum there ae 2 advisories, etc. 20:37:27 JR: What about piggybacking on top of other advice given 20:40:08 JT: Difficulty here is that it is generic...intended to cover all choics... 20:42:01 JR: Maybe we could split into a minimum and and extended success criteria 20:42:31 JT: I'd prefer at this point a trial ballon using "granularity of choice".... 20:42:41 JT: Also thinking of limiting it to WCAG 20:43:28 JR: One possible thing we've picked is alternative content 20:44:00 JT: already used that a lot 20:44:22 JT: One excuse often given is that "we are using technology X"... 20:44:41 JT: and it's not easy to do accessibility in X...so I should be excused. 20:44:59 JT: So advising people before they do that would have a large impact 20:46:01 JR: We used to have a peice about "inaccessible techs" 20:46:29 JT: I don't want to say "accessible or inaccessible tech"....I want to talk about "how easy", etc. 20:47:13 JR: What about letting the author know about the support that tool perovides for accessibklity authorong in that tech 20:47:44 JT: Maybe 20:47:47 TB: Ok 20:48:42 JT: But I think we want to capture situations where accessibility is also provided externally 20:49:04 JR: OK - easier to formaulate an "OR" if there is an easy choice and harder ones 20:50:04 Action: JR, JT to have a new formulation of the decision support success criteria 20:50:04 Sorry, couldn't find user - JR, 20:50:35 Topic: B.2.4.3 20:50:37 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-au/2009JulSep/0042.html 20:52:32 B.2.4.3 Let user agents repair: After the end of an authoring session, 20:52:34 the authoring tool does not attempt to repair alternative content for 20:52:35 non-text content using text values that are equally available to user 20:52:37 agents (e.g., the filename is not used). (Level A) 20:52:38 Note: If a web content technology includes a mechanism for marking 20:52:40 alternative content as automatically generated, then that mechanism is 20:52:42 employed to mark any repairs performed after the end of an authoring 20:52:43 session. 20:57:53 -Tim_Boland 20:57:54 -SueAnnN 20:57:59 -Jutta 20:58:00 -Jan 20:58:02 -Jeanne 20:58:03 WAI_AUWG()3:00PM has ended 20:58:04 Attendees were Jeanne, Jan, Tim_Boland, SueAnnN, Jutta 20:59:52 RRSAgent, make minutes 20:59:52 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/08/31-au-minutes.html Jan 20:59:57 RRSAgent, set logs public 21:00:40 Zakim, bye 21:00:40 Zakim has left #au 21:00:47 RRSAgent, bye 21:00:47 I see 1 open action item saved in http://www.w3.org/2009/08/31-au-actions.rdf : 21:00:47 ACTION: JR, JT to have a new formulation of the decision support success criteria [1] 21:00:47 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/08/31-au-irc#T20-50-04