IRC log of ua on 2009-08-20

Timestamps are in UTC.

16:47:23 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #ua
16:47:23 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/08/20-ua-irc
16:47:37 [AllanJ]
rrsagent, set logs public
16:49:16 [AllanJ]
chair: Jim_Allan
16:50:26 [AllanJ]
title: UAWG telecon
16:54:19 [AllanJ]
Agenda+ Logistics (Regrets, agenda requests, comments)?
16:54:43 [AllanJ]
Agenda+ HTML 5 and UAAG review - http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/Overview.html
16:54:56 [AllanJ]
Agenda+ Review Survey http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/47/
16:55:13 [AllanJ]
Agenda+ Face 2 Face
16:57:05 [sharper]
sharper has joined #ua
17:01:41 [Zakim]
WAI_UAWG()1:00PM has now started
17:01:48 [Zakim]
+ +1.408.813.aaaa
17:01:53 [Zakim]
- +1.408.813.aaaa
17:01:55 [Zakim]
WAI_UAWG()1:00PM has ended
17:01:56 [Zakim]
Attendees were +1.408.813.aaaa
17:02:24 [Zakim]
WAI_UAWG()1:00PM has now started
17:02:30 [Zakim]
+ +1.408.813.aaaa
17:02:45 [Zakim]
- +1.408.813.aaaa
17:02:47 [Zakim]
WAI_UAWG()1:00PM has ended
17:02:47 [Zakim]
Attendees were +1.408.813.aaaa
17:02:51 [Zakim]
WAI_UAWG()1:00PM has now started
17:02:58 [Zakim]
+AllanJ
17:03:05 [jeanne]
jeanne has joined #ua
17:03:12 [sharper]
zakim, code?
17:03:12 [Zakim]
the conference code is 82941 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), sharper
17:03:34 [Zakim]
+Jeanne
17:03:41 [AllanJ]
zakim, who is here
17:03:41 [Zakim]
AllanJ, you need to end that query with '?'
17:03:45 [AllanJ]
zakim, who is here?
17:03:45 [Zakim]
On the phone I see AllanJ, Jeanne
17:03:46 [Zakim]
On IRC I see jeanne, sharper, RRSAgent, Zakim, AllanJ, David, trackbot
17:04:00 [Zakim]
+ +1.408.813.aaaa
17:04:29 [David]
I'm in as well
17:04:42 [Zakim]
+??P9
17:04:43 [KimPatch]
KimPatch has joined #ua
17:04:45 [sharper]
zakim, ??P9 is sharper
17:04:45 [Zakim]
+sharper; got it
17:04:53 [jeanne]
zakim, aaaa is David
17:04:53 [Zakim]
+David; got it
17:05:21 [jeanne]
zakim, P9 is sharper
17:05:21 [Zakim]
sorry, jeanne, I do not recognize a party named 'P9'
17:05:23 [Greg]
Greg has joined #ua
17:05:37 [jeanne]
zakim, ??p9 is really sharper
17:05:37 [Zakim]
+sharper; got it
17:05:37 [sharper]
Present+ Harper_Simon (SH-sharper)
17:06:33 [Zakim]
+Kim
17:07:25 [Zakim]
+Greg
17:08:20 [jeanne]
zakim, what time is it?
17:08:20 [Zakim]
I don't understand your question, jeanne.
17:08:27 [jeanne]
zakim, time?
17:08:27 [Zakim]
I don't understand your question, jeanne.
17:08:59 [jeanne]
http://time.gov/
17:09:15 [jeanne]
13:09
17:11:09 [sharper]
zakim, agenda?
17:11:09 [Zakim]
I see 4 items remaining on the agenda:
17:11:10 [Zakim]
1. Logistics (Regrets, agenda requests, comments)? [from AllanJ]
17:11:11 [Zakim]
2. HTML 5 and UAAG review - http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/Overview.html [from AllanJ]
17:11:12 [Zakim]
3. Review Survey http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/47/ [from AllanJ]
17:11:13 [Zakim]
4. Face 2 Face [from AllanJ]
17:12:47 [jeanne]
regrets+ Jan, Kelly
17:13:11 [sharper]
present: Allan_James (JA-AllanJ), Spellman_Jeanne (JS-jeanne), Patch_Kim (KP-KimPatch), Lowney_Greg (GL-Greg), Tseng_David (DT-David)
17:13:35 [sharper]
meeting: User Agent Working Group Telecon - 20 Aug 2009
17:13:58 [sharper]
regrets: Ford_Kelly (KF-KFord), Swan_Henny (HS-Henny), Richards_Jan (JR), Hakkinen_Mark (MH-mth)
17:14:36 [sharper]
agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2009JulSep/0050.html
17:14:49 [sharper]
zakim, take up item 1
17:14:49 [Zakim]
agendum 1. "Logistics (Regrets, agenda requests, comments)?" taken up [from AllanJ]
17:14:49 [sharper]
zakim, close item 1
17:14:51 [Zakim]
agendum 1, Logistics (Regrets, agenda requests, comments)?, closed
17:14:52 [Zakim]
I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
17:14:53 [Zakim]
2. HTML 5 and UAAG review - http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/Overview.html [from AllanJ]
17:15:00 [sharper]
zakim, take up item 4
17:15:00 [Zakim]
agendum 4. "Face 2 Face" taken up [from AllanJ]
17:15:07 [Zakim]
-Greg
17:15:23 [sharper]
JA: Various F2F locations in discussion
17:15:49 [sharper]
JS: TPAC - we can have a spot if we want it - thursday / friday
17:16:07 [sharper]
JS: 5th / 6th November
17:16:47 [sharper]
JA: Domain Working Group - possibility of video workshop
17:16:53 [sharper]
JA: Thoughts?
17:17:19 [sharper]
JA: $50 registration fee / who can make it?
17:17:21 [sharper]
David +1
17:17:42 [sharper]
Jeanne +1
17:17:44 [sharper]
Kim +1
17:17:47 [sharper]
Simon -1
17:18:05 [sharper]
Jim +1(?)
17:18:21 [sharper]
Kelly +1 (?)
17:18:30 [sharper]
zakim, who's here?
17:18:30 [Zakim]
On the phone I see AllanJ, Jeanne, David, sharper, Kim
17:18:32 [Zakim]
On IRC I see Greg, KimPatch, jeanne, sharper, RRSAgent, Zakim, AllanJ, David, trackbot
17:18:41 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
17:19:12 [sharper]
regrets- Hakkinen_Mark (MH-mth)
17:19:18 [sharper]
present+ Hakkinen_Mark (MH-mth)
17:19:20 [Zakim]
+??P10
17:19:39 [sharper]
zakim, ??P10 is Greg
17:19:39 [Zakim]
+Greg; got it
17:19:56 [AllanJ]
zakim, IPcaller is really Mark
17:19:56 [Zakim]
+Mark; got it
17:21:09 [sharper]
Greg: can attend first day
17:21:15 [sharper]
Mark +1
17:22:42 [AllanJ]
www.w3.org/2009/11/TPAC/
17:23:38 [sharper]
RESOLVED: JS to send email - TPAC confirmed for Face2Face in Santa Clara - 5th / 6th November 2009 ( www.w3.org/2009/11/TPAC/ )
17:24:02 [sharper]
zakim, agenda?
17:24:02 [Zakim]
I see 3 items remaining on the agenda:
17:24:04 [Zakim]
2. HTML 5 and UAAG review - http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/Overview.html [from AllanJ]
17:24:05 [Zakim]
3. Review Survey http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/47/ [from AllanJ]
17:24:06 [Zakim]
4. Face 2 Face [from AllanJ]
17:25:32 [sharper]
agenda+ Call Duration
17:25:44 [sharper]
zakim, close item 4
17:25:44 [Zakim]
agendum 4, Face 2 Face, closed
17:25:44 [sharper]
zakim, take up item 5
17:25:45 [Zakim]
I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
17:25:46 [Zakim]
2. HTML 5 and UAAG review - http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/Overview.html [from AllanJ]
17:25:47 [Zakim]
agendum 5. "Call Duration" taken up [from sharper]
17:26:07 [sharper]
JS: should we cut the call suration from 90 to 60 miutes
17:27:26 [sharper]
s/miutes/minutes
17:27:36 [sharper]
s/suration/duration/
17:27:37 [sharper]
JS orig request from JR
17:28:06 [sharper]
AJ: Leave at 90, JS can drop off if need be, can finish early if required.
17:28:26 [sharper]
RESOLVED: Leave at 90 but finish early id there are no pressing matters.
17:28:36 [sharper]
zakim, close item 5
17:28:36 [Zakim]
agendum 5, Call Duration, closed
17:28:37 [sharper]
zakim, take up item 2
17:28:38 [Zakim]
I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
17:28:40 [Zakim]
2. HTML 5 and UAAG review - http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/Overview.html [from AllanJ]
17:28:42 [Zakim]
agendum 2. "HTML 5 and UAAG review - http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/Overview.html" taken up [from AllanJ]
17:30:17 [sharper]
JA: WAI-CG is looking for broad strokes
17:30:44 [sharper]
JA: But may be nuance, and a moving target
17:31:15 [sharper]
JA: Canvas concept of fallback concept - not a good mechanism for this.
17:31:57 [sharper]
JA: really html5 spec is also about building the UA
17:32:37 [sharper]
rrsagent, make logs public
17:32:37 [sharper]
rrsagent, draft minutes
17:32:37 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/08/20-ua-minutes.html sharper
17:33:15 [sharper]
JS: need to get out point of view across before its too late as html5 is now moving very fast.
17:33:41 [sharper]
JS: get a lot fast / as opposed to detail in 2 months
17:34:05 [sharper]
JS: only 2 more weeks to get this done - our part is required as fast as possible - to PF
17:34:57 [sharper]
regrets- Hakkinen_Mark_(MH-mth)
17:35:11 [sharper]
rrsagent, draft minutes
17:35:11 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/08/20-ua-minutes.html sharper
17:37:15 [sharper]
zakim, save agenda
17:37:21 [Zakim]
ok, sharper, the agenda has been written to http://www.w3.org/2009/08/20-ua-agenda.rdf
17:37:28 [sharper]
rrsagent, draft minutes
17:37:28 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/08/20-ua-minutes.html sharper
17:39:38 [sharper]
scribe: Harper_Simon
17:39:38 [sharper]
ScribeNick: sharper
17:40:38 [sharper]
JA: As we find more html5 issues send them to the list.
17:41:13 [sharper]
RESOLVED: As we find more html5 issues send them to the list. We only have 1 week or so.
17:42:15 [sharper]
Open Issues - http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/tracker/issues/open
17:42:23 [sharper]
Open Action Items - http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/tracker/actions/open
17:43:12 [sharper]
ACTIONS start at 213
17:43:55 [sharper]
JA: http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/tracker/actions/213
17:44:08 [sharper]
HS: http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/tracker/actions/214
17:44:17 [sharper]
KF: http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/tracker/actions/215
17:44:36 [sharper]
MH: http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/tracker/actions/216
17:44:41 [AllanJ]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/tracker/actions/open
17:44:49 [sharper]
KP: http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/tracker/actions/218
17:45:01 [sharper]
JA: http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/tracker/actions/220
17:45:34 [sharper]
SH: http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/tracker/actions/217
17:45:42 [sharper]
SH: http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/tracker/actions/219
17:46:22 [sharper]
JA: GL will pick
17:47:54 [sharper]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2009JulSep/0035.html
17:48:42 [sharper]
JA: DT to take the DOM and elements sections both section 3 and 4 with overlaps
17:49:36 [AllanJ]
Action: DT to review HTML5 section 3 and 4
17:49:36 [trackbot]
Sorry, couldn't find user - DT
17:49:52 [AllanJ]
Action: Davit_Tseng to review HTML5 section 3 and 4
17:49:52 [trackbot]
Sorry, couldn't find user - Davit_Tseng
17:50:09 [AllanJ]
Action: David Tseng to review HTML5 section 3 and 4
17:50:09 [trackbot]
Sorry, amibiguous username (more than one match) - David
17:50:09 [trackbot]
Try using a different identifier, such as family name or username (eg. ddavidts, dpoehlma)
17:50:23 [AllanJ]
Action: DTseng to review HTML5 section 3 and 4
17:50:23 [trackbot]
Sorry, couldn't find user - DTseng
17:50:23 [David]
ddavidts
17:50:50 [AllanJ]
Action: ddavidts to review HTML5 section 3 and 4
17:50:50 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-221 - Review HTML5 section 3 and 4 [on David Tseng David Tseng - due 2009-08-27].
17:51:04 [KimPatch]
KimPatch has joined #ua
17:52:25 [sharper]
RESOLVED: PLEASE COMPLETE THE HTML5 ACTIONS AS SOON AS POSSIBLE - CAN BE CLEANED UP BY JA AND WAI-WG.
17:52:39 [sharper]
zakim, close item 2
17:52:39 [Zakim]
agendum 2, HTML 5 and UAAG review - http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/Overview.html, closed
17:52:41 [Zakim]
I see 1 item remaining on the agenda:
17:52:42 [Zakim]
3. Review Survey http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/47/ [from AllanJ]
17:52:53 [sharper]
zakim, take up item 3
17:52:53 [Zakim]
agendum 3. "Review Survey http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/47/" taken up [from AllanJ]
17:53:09 [AllanJ]
http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/47/results
17:53:52 [sharper]
4.6 Searching suggests something we do over many documents - find is some thing we do inside a document - although I realize find is what we do to action the searching. Changing "search" to "find" for GL 4.6 title and all success criteria in GL 4.6
17:54:01 [AllanJ]
http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/47/results#x11
17:54:42 [sharper]
2 accepts - 4 neutral - comments needs to wordsmith to accept.
17:55:48 [sharper]
Find in Media
17:55:58 [sharper]
GL 4.6 is about text content - but does this mean captions in multimedia - and if so is it the player or the browsers responsibility to offer this functionality?
17:56:08 [sharper]
3 yes 2 depends
17:57:33 [sharper]
http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/47/results#x81
17:58:27 [sharper]
GL: functionality required, but can it be done / what does this already?
17:58:44 [sharper]
KP: like some word processors
17:59:54 [sharper]
GL: How does this stuff already work?
18:01:30 [sharper]
GL: would it be accurate to say we do want the ability, need to research how it is done today - to know if it is acceptable to make it a requirement.
18:03:59 [AllanJ]
SH: what if captions are there but hidden by css or javascript, such as expand/contract elements
18:04:19 [AllanJ]
is this a technique or do we need a success criteria
18:04:47 [sharper]
ISSUE: We do want the ability, need to research how it is done today - to know if it is acceptable to make it a requirement.
18:04:47 [trackbot]
Created ISSUE-40 - We do want the ability, need to research how it is done today - to know if it is acceptable to make it a requirement. ; please complete additional details at http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/tracker/issues/40/edit .
18:07:04 [AllanJ]
ISSUE: We do want the ability, need to research how it is done today - to know if search of alternative, embedded, or plugin content is acceptable to make it a requirement.
18:07:04 [trackbot]
Created ISSUE-41 - We do want the ability, need to research how it is done today - to know if search of alternative, embedded, or plugin content is acceptable to make it a requirement. ; please complete additional details at http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/tracker/issues/41/edit .
18:08:55 [AllanJ]
SH: if something consumes input, but the UA and AT know nothing about it then it is a UA
18:10:19 [sharper]
http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/47/results#x82
18:10:27 [sharper]
What if no find function?
18:10:33 [sharper]
If search / find is not included in the UA functionality - does a UA need to add it specifically to meet our guidelines?
18:10:42 [sharper]
5 yes / 2 depends
18:12:19 [sharper]
GL: Answered by the answer to http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/47/results#x83
18:16:21 [sharper]
4.6.1 Search Rendered Content
18:16:51 [sharper]
4.6.1 Search Content: The user can perform a search within rendered content (e.g., not hidden with a style) for text and text alternatives for a sequence of characters from the document character set. (Level A)
18:20:29 [AllanJ]
SH: remove 'rendered' and 'not hidden' so search will find captions, hidden content, anything in the dom
18:20:53 [AllanJ]
...and if you find, how do you get to hidden content.
18:21:46 [AllanJ]
GL: proposal - user option to search only rendered text or include alternative content (alt, titles, caption, etc.)
18:22:43 [AllanJ]
GL: searching text and text alternatives within rendered elements.
18:23:19 [AllanJ]
SH: hidden content is a problem.
18:23:56 [AllanJ]
GL: provide scenario of where searching hidden content is a problem.
18:24:36 [AllanJ]
SH: expands GL proposal on search options (advanced search)
18:24:57 [Zakim]
-David
18:25:18 [AllanJ]
GL: searching hidden content is more usability than accessibility
18:25:50 [AllanJ]
KP: find is really useful for speech users
18:28:08 [sharper]
ACTION: SH to back 4.6 and address the questions and comments of the survey results http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/47/results
18:28:08 [trackbot]
Sorry, amibiguous username (more than one match) - SH
18:28:08 [trackbot]
Try using a different identifier, such as family name or username (eg. sharper, shayes)
18:28:26 [sharper]
ACTION: sharper to back 4.6 and address the questions and comments of the survey results http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/47/results
18:28:26 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-222 - Back 4.6 and address the questions and comments of the survey results http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/47/results [on Simon Harper - due 2009-08-27].
18:28:49 [sharper]
rrsagent, draft minutes
18:28:49 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/08/20-ua-minutes.html sharper
18:29:21 [Zakim]
-Mark
18:29:23 [Zakim]
-Kim
18:29:26 [Zakim]
-Greg
18:29:44 [Zakim]
-sharper
18:30:44 [sharper]
rrsagent, draft minutes
18:30:44 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/08/20-ua-minutes.html sharper
18:31:17 [sharper]
zakim, please part
18:31:17 [Zakim]
leaving. As of this point the attendees were AllanJ, Jeanne, +1.408.813.aaaa, David, sharper, Kim, Greg, Mark
18:31:17 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #ua
18:31:27 [sharper]
rrsagent, draft minutes
18:31:27 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/08/20-ua-minutes.html sharper
18:32:01 [sharper]
rrsagent, please part
18:32:01 [RRSAgent]
I see 7 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2009/08/20-ua-actions.rdf :
18:32:01 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: DT to review HTML5 section 3 and 4 [1]
18:32:01 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/08/20-ua-irc#T17-49-36
18:32:01 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Davit_Tseng to review HTML5 section 3 and 4 [2]
18:32:01 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/08/20-ua-irc#T17-49-52
18:32:01 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: David Tseng to review HTML5 section 3 and 4 [3]
18:32:01 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/08/20-ua-irc#T17-50-09
18:32:01 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: DTseng to review HTML5 section 3 and 4 [4]
18:32:01 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/08/20-ua-irc#T17-50-23
18:32:01 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: ddavidts to review HTML5 section 3 and 4 [5]
18:32:01 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/08/20-ua-irc#T17-50-50
18:32:01 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: SH to back 4.6 and address the questions and comments of the survey results http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/47/results [6]
18:32:01 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/08/20-ua-irc#T18-28-08
18:32:01 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: sharper to back 4.6 and address the questions and comments of the survey results http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/47/results [7]
18:32:01 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/08/20-ua-irc#T18-28-26