IRC log of rdfa on 2009-07-30

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:53:12 [RRSAgent]

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14:53:12 [RRSAgent]

logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/07/30-rdfa-irc

14:53:29 [Zakim]

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14:53:41 [irc]

zakim, this will be rdfa

14:53:41 [Zakim]

ok, irc; I see SW_SWD(RDFa)11:00AM scheduled to start in 7 minutes

14:53:51 [irc]

Scribe: Manu_Sporny

14:54:04 [irc]

ScribeNick: msporny

14:54:30 [irc]

Meeting: RDFa in XHTML Task Force

14:54:40 [irc]

Chair: Ben_Adida

14:54:46 [irc]

Present: Manu_Sporny

14:54:58 [irc]

Regrets: Michael_Hausenblas, Mark_Birbeck

14:55:31 [irc]

Previous: http://www.w3.org/2009/07/23-rdfa-minutes

14:55:44 [irc]

Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2009Jul/0183.html

14:56:38 [irc]

rrsagent, make log public

14:56:46 [irc]

rrsagent, draft minutes

14:56:46 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/07/30-rdfa-minutes.html irc

14:59:06 [ShaneM]

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15:00:17 [msporny]

zakim, code?

15:00:17 [Zakim]

the conference code is 7332 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), msporny

15:00:57 [Zakim]

SW_SWD(RDFa)11:00AM has now started

15:01:04 [Zakim]

+McCarron

15:01:25 [ShaneM]

zakim, McCarron is ShaneM

15:01:25 [Zakim]

+ShaneM; got it

15:01:41 [Zakim]

+Ben_Adida

15:01:44 [Zakim]

+??P19

15:01:48 [benadida]

benadida has joined #rdfa

15:01:51 [msporny]

zakim, I am ??P19

15:01:51 [Zakim]

+msporny; got it

15:03:36 [msporny]

Regrets+ Steven_Pemberton

15:03:46 [msporny]

Regrets+ Ralph_Swick

15:05:11 [msporny]

will try calling back in

15:05:17 [Zakim]

-msporny

15:06:15 [Zakim]

+[IPcaller]

15:06:24 [msporny]

zakim, I am ??IPcaller

15:06:24 [Zakim]

sorry, msporny, I do not see a party named '??IPcaller'

15:06:27 [msporny]

zakim, I am +IPcaller

15:06:27 [Zakim]

sorry, msporny, I do not see a party named '+IPcaller'

15:06:31 [msporny]

zakim, I am IPcaller

15:06:32 [Zakim]

ok, msporny, I now associate you with [IPcaller]

15:06:58 [msporny]

Topic: Action Items

15:07:08 [msporny]

ACTION: Ben to query the RDFa TF and ML to gather feedback regarding the XMLLiteral default for @datatype [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/07/23-rdfa-minutes.html#action02]

15:07:13 [msporny]

-- DONE

15:07:28 [msporny]

ACTION: Ben to author wiki page with charter template for RDFa IG. Manu to provide support where needed. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/05/28-rdfa-minutes.html#action10]

15:07:38 [msporny]

-- CONTINUES

15:07:43 [msporny]

Ben: Did a little bit of work on that

15:07:54 [msporny]

Ben: We should wrap it up - we have enough support now.

15:08:56 [msporny]

Manu: Time frame?

15:09:14 [msporny]

Manu: HTML WG will have LC on HTML5 in Oct

15:09:33 [msporny]

Ben: Would like to get it started at first point in August.

15:10:06 [msporny]

Ben: We need to structure it so that it's easy for the W3C to accept the RDFa IG. It's not controversial.

15:10:33 [msporny]

Topic: XML Literals (thoughts)

15:10:45 [msporny]

Ben: Not much feedback, would it warrant versioning?

15:10:49 [msporny]

Shane: Yes, absolutely it would.

15:11:09 [msporny]

Ben: If it's a matter-of-fact - Google and Yahoo want the change.

15:11:17 [msporny]

Shane: Doesn't matter, we need to change the language identifier.

15:11:28 [msporny]

Shane: This is exactly why languages need version specifiers.

15:11:46 [msporny]

Ben: yes, but changes are so minor.

15:12:10 [msporny]

Shane: Yes, but this isn't an errata - even if nobody has used the feature, it's an incompatible change.

15:14:35 [msporny]

Manu: I agree with Shane and the ghost of Ralph on this situation.

15:14:47 [msporny]

Manu: We're going to have to bump revision numbers at some point.

15:14:59 [msporny]

Ben: Yes, maybe - but we have to go through LC.

15:15:10 [msporny]

Shane: We've been talking about releasing the XML Schema version

15:15:25 [msporny]

Shane: We will have to do a proposed edited REC

15:15:36 [msporny]

Ben: That has no backwards-incompatible changes, right?

15:15:46 [msporny]

Shane: Yes and we don't have to change the version numbers.

15:15:57 [msporny]

Shane: You have to issue tracker, disposition of comments, diff-marked, etc.

15:16:18 [msporny]

Ben: but if you re-open backwards-incompatible changes, the scope you have to address is wider.

15:16:32 [msporny]

Shane: Yes.

15:18:17 [msporny]

Topic: HTML5+RDFa FPWD proposal and xmlns: language change

15:18:30 [benadida]

ACTION: Shane to produce proposed diff re: XMLLiteral change

15:20:02 [benadida]

Manu: LarryM (Adobe) has proposed that all 3 current HTML5 specs be simultaneously published for heartbeat

15:20:23 [benadida]

... they don't care deeply about RDFa, but want a process for alternate specs.

15:20:40 [benadida]

... Maciej doesn't want to hold up Ian's version

15:21:58 [benadida]

... SamRuby wants 3 people (not in RDFa community) to support the HTML5+RDFa spec.

15:33:37 [msporny]

Ben: I will respond on HTML WG and look at the thread

15:35:41 [msporny]

Ben: What about xmlns: language?

15:36:15 [msporny]

Manu: It doesn't state anywhere in the HTML5 spec, that I can tell, that preserves "invalid" attributes in the DOM.

15:37:31 [msporny]

Manu: it affects firebug, facebook, etc.

15:37:40 [msporny]

Ben: It also affects Dojo.

15:37:51 [msporny]

Shane: There is a difference between xml mode and non-xml mode.

15:38:31 [msporny]

Shane: In non-xml mode, literals are preserved (with some weird thing about colons), but in xml mode, they are not preserved

15:38:48 [msporny]

Shane: since it doesn't go into the NULL namespace, it goes into the xmlns namespace

15:39:02 [msporny]

Shane: You can't find it because the literal isn't there anymore.

15:42:06 [msporny]

Ben: xmlns: must be supported in XHTML5.

15:42:42 [msporny]

Shane: That already works.

15:43:06 [msporny]

Ben: Then why can't the HTML5 DOM support at least the xmlns: attribute.

15:43:12 [msporny]

Ben: Why are we special casing?

15:43:25 [msporny]

Ben: It's a part of the way things have always been done.

15:44:11 [msporny]

Shane: This isn't hard to do, please do push that argument on HTML WG.

15:49:25 [msporny]

Ben: There is an issue that Ian gets to CTR, but others can't.

15:51:40 [msporny]

Topic: @profile discussion

15:52:00 [msporny]

Ben: Trying not to become more extremist about this, but it's making me worried.

15:53:53 [msporny]

Manu: Seen my latest e-mail about "we're doing the same work with both approaches"

15:54:45 [msporny]

Ben: Yes, but what we're dealing with is vocabularies that will bootstrap on other vocabularies.

15:55:27 [msporny]

Ben: So, http://google.com/vocab#title becomes the de-factor instead of http://dcterms.org/terms/title

15:56:20 [msporny]

Ben: It rules out Javascript parsers...

15:56:48 [msporny]

Ben: It must take on a big scope that most parsers take on - security implications.

15:57:07 [msporny]

Ben: Dereferencing third party websites is problematic.

15:57:58 [msporny]

Ben: In Mark's proposal, there's no step-wise approach. It's all or nothing.

15:59:09 [msporny]

Manu: I think you have good points re: security and re: Javascript parsers being impossible with Mark's proposal.

15:59:22 [msporny]

Shane: Yes, those are deal-breakers for me.

16:00:40 [msporny]

Ben: With the current approach, XSS makes it impossible.

16:01:02 [msporny]

Shane: My sense with your proposal is that it doesn't have much to do with RDFa.

16:01:21 [msporny]

Ben: with my proposal, I need the ability to set the default CURIE prefix, which I can't do.

16:02:59 [benadida]

ACTION: Ben to summarize architectural issues (security) re: @profile proposal for tokenizing the web.

16:06:07 [Zakim]

-ShaneM

16:06:09 [Zakim]

-Ben_Adida

16:06:15 [Zakim]

-[IPcaller]

16:06:16 [Zakim]

SW_SWD(RDFa)11:00AM has ended

16:06:17 [Zakim]

Attendees were ShaneM, Ben_Adida, msporny, [IPcaller]

16:06:32 [msporny]

rrsagent, draft minutes

16:06:32 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/07/30-rdfa-minutes.html msporny

16:15:13 [msporny]

Present+ Shane_McCarron

16:15:17 [msporny]

Present+ Ben_Adida

16:15:21 [msporny]

rrsagent, draft minutes

16:15:21 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/07/30-rdfa-minutes.html msporny

16:19:03 [ShaneM]

ShaneM has left #rdfa

17:31:54 [Zakim]

Zakim has left #rdfa

17:44:55 [msporny]

rrsagent, bye

17:44:55 [RRSAgent]

I see 4 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2009/07/30-rdfa-actions.rdf :

17:44:55 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Ben to query the RDFa TF and ML to gather feedback regarding the XMLLiteral default for @datatype [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/07/23-rdfa-minutes.html#action02] [1]

17:44:55 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/07/30-rdfa-irc#T15-07-08

17:44:55 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Ben to author wiki page with charter template for RDFa IG. Manu to provide support where needed. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/05/28-rdfa-minutes.html#action10] [2]

17:44:55 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/07/30-rdfa-irc#T15-07-28

17:44:55 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Shane to produce proposed diff re: XMLLiteral change [3]

17:44:55 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/07/30-rdfa-irc#T15-18-30

17:44:55 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Ben to summarize architectural issues (security) re: @profile proposal for tokenizing the web. [4]

17:44:55 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/07/30-rdfa-irc#T16-02-59