19:08:06 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #ws-ra
19:08:06 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/07/14-ws-ra-irc
19:08:08 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
19:08:08 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #ws-ra
19:08:10 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be WSRA
19:08:10 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see WS_WSRA()3:30PM scheduled to start in 22 minutes
19:08:11 <trackbot> Meeting: Web Services Resource Access Working Group Teleconference
19:08:11 <trackbot> Date: 14 July 2009
19:11:33 <Paul> Paul has joined #ws-ra
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19:28:31 <Zakim> WS_WSRA()3:30PM has now started
19:28:39 <Zakim> +??P0
19:28:47 <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
19:29:04 <Zakim> + +0207827aaaa
19:29:20 <dug> dug has joined #ws-ra
19:29:24 <Zakim> + +1.571.262.aabb
19:29:25 <Paul> Zakim, aaaa is Paul
19:29:25 <Zakim> +Paul; got it
19:29:26 <Geoff> Geoff has joined #ws-ra
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19:29:51 <Zakim> + +0759029aacc
19:30:11 <Bob> trackbot, start telecon
19:30:14 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
19:30:16 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be WSRA
19:30:16 <Zakim> ok, trackbot, I see WS_WSRA()3:30PM already started
19:30:17 <trackbot> Meeting: Web Services Resource Access Working Group Teleconference
19:30:17 <trackbot> Date: 14 July 2009
19:30:24 <Zakim> + +1.408.970.aadd
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19:30:43 <Zakim> +Ashok_Malhotra
19:30:50 <Zakim> +[IBM]
19:30:59 <Bob> agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-resource-access/2009Jul/0033.html
19:31:02 <Zakim> +Wu_Chou
19:31:07 <Bob> chair: Bob Freund
19:31:48 <Zakim> +??P9
19:32:06 <dug> I can't get to ANY of the issues - the web site is blocking me
19:32:12 <Zakim> +Tom_Rutt
19:32:36 <Zakim> + +1.408.642.aaee
19:32:57 <Zakim> +Yves
19:33:29 <Sreed> Sreed has joined #ws-ra
19:35:51 <Bob> scribe: Sreedhara Narayanaswamy
19:36:00 <Bob> scribenick: Sreed
19:36:37 <DaveS> Note to chair: Bob I will need to go mobile about half way through the call, but will stay on as long as I have connectivity.
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19:36:50 <Sreed> Bob: Posted agend is it acceptable 
19:37:23 <asir> asir has joined #ws-ra
19:37:54 <Sreed> Bob: Any objects in accepting the Minutes of 7th July
19:38:53 <Bob> Topic: Team 6401
19:40:14 <Sreed> Gil: Non functional reqs specific to 6401
19:40:53 <dug> how can I tell?
19:41:13 <gpilz>    D. Support Migration      It should facilitate a migration path of eliminating the offending outbound operations in existing web service implementations.
19:41:15 <dug> is there a cmd to show the hosts my msg hits?
19:41:19 <dug> on windows
19:41:37 <Sreed> Bob: Migration no functional improvements & changes are pemissible
19:41:41 <Yves> dug: http://www.showmyip.com/
19:41:42 <gpilz> q+
19:41:57 <Bob> ack gpi
19:42:02 <dug> 129.33.49.251
19:42:12 <dug> bi01p1.nc.us.ibm.com
19:43:13 <Sreed> gpliz: speicifc to as how the notifications would look like,  a particular of construction of WS Eventing 
19:43:47 <Wu> q+
19:44:10 <Yves> dug, it should be cleared now
19:44:12 <Sreed> gpliz: Other implementations related to migration 
19:44:21 <li> q+
19:44:28 <dug> ahhh, I feel so much better!!! thanks a ton Yves!!!!!!!
19:44:43 <Bob> s/functional/functional take-aways
19:44:51 <dug> q+
19:44:52 <Sreed> Bob: Particular to older specs what is the point in the migration path
19:44:56 <Bob> ack li
19:45:53 <Sreed> Li: Migration web services WSDL out bound operations 6401 is trying to develop solution for out bound operations WS Eventing will propose solution
19:46:44 <Sreed> Li: If these web services spec is this current will allow to migrate specific to out bound operations 
19:47:02 <Sreed> Bob: Are you suggesting existing implementations migrated without code change
19:48:02 <Sreed> Li: Web services specification from other standard - in these WSDL the out bound operations. These WSDL specs  to be BP compliant  
19:48:35 <Sreed> Li: Migrate from un-compatible state to compatilble state
19:48:36 <Bob> ack wu
19:48:44 <Bob> ack dug
19:48:52 <Wu> q+
19:49:10 <Bob> ack qu
19:49:12 <Sreed> Dug: Previous F2F discussed in migration doc need to address this
19:49:18 <Bob> ack wu
19:49:40 <gpilz> q+
19:50:09 <gpilz> q-
19:50:09 <Sreed> Bob: Other specs will not be BP compliant?
19:51:13 <gpilz> q+
19:51:39 <Bob> ack gpi
19:51:43 <Sreed> Wu: it should be relatively to change the BP compliance as required
19:51:46 <Bob> ack gp
19:52:17 <dug> what's the point of this discussion?  we're all agreed it not going into the spec so what are we arguing about?
19:52:51 <dug> each company will figure out how much of a migration process there is for each feature - vote (make proposals) appropriately 
19:52:55 <Sreed> gpilz: Alternative proposal disucssing with the working groups. Reqs should be relatively easy to migrate 
19:53:47 <Sreed> gpilz: Migration chosen in particular specs that been discussing using the WS Eventing 
19:53:52 <Wu> q+
19:54:39 <Sreed> Bob: Migration path information in the document Geoff did this. Why is there further requirement on migration?
19:55:32 <Sreed> Wu: Solution we developed presented other web services vendor to compse with us - particular requirement 
19:55:58 <Bob> ack wu
19:56:04 <Sreed> Bob: Providing the information (paragraph) related to this
19:56:19 <Sreed> Wu: Can provide this paragraph
19:56:40 <Geoff> q+
19:57:03 <dug> on firm mud
19:57:11 <Sreed> ACTION: Wu will work on information related to the migration (paragraph)
19:57:11 <trackbot> Created ACTION-82 - Will work on information related to the migration (paragraph) [on wu chou - due 2009-07-21].
19:58:42 <Sreed> Geoff: We need Wu & Gpliz to do with the specifications related to this
19:58:42 <Bob> ack geo
19:59:26 <Sreed> Bob: New issue Issue-7088
20:00:39 <Sreed> Bob: Need to have the information related to 7088 before the F2F
20:01:23 <Sreed> Bob: We have working document then we can close 7088 - also issues can be opened to this
20:01:44 <DaveS> q+
20:01:52 <Sreed> Bob: Issue-6720 
20:02:12 <Sreed> Bob: http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=6720 
20:02:23 <Bob> ack dave
20:03:00 <Sreed> Bob: We had a proposal for the 6720
20:03:02 <dug> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-resource-access/2009Jul/0027.html
20:03:28 <Geoff> q+
20:04:11 <Sreed> Ashok: checking in bugzilla
20:05:09 <gpilz> let's get drunk and behead some royalty!
20:05:44 <Sreed> Ashok: Problem was we didnt know exactly  second paragraph any document  XML Schema: Structures], [XML Schema: ]
20:07:04 <Sreed> Dug: support transfer
20:07:47 <asir> q+
20:07:51 <Sreed> Ashok: will get the XML or policy
20:07:57 <asir> q-
20:08:32 <Sreed> Dug: Meta section identifier attribute
20:08:58 <Bob> ack geo
20:09:14 <Sreed> Geoff: I don't get what is going on in this
20:09:36 <dug> q+
20:09:58 <Sreed> Geoff: Get operation can return many things including multiple documents interms of Dug was saying it is really not correct
20:10:00 <Tom_Rutt> Tom_Rutt has joined #ws-ra
20:10:41 <Sreed> Geoff: Get request single representation of the spec any metadata can return policy, not the get metadata itself
20:10:54 <Sreed> Geoff: As what we are arguing in this
20:11:54 <Sreed> Ashok: Original question spec can get all of these things 
20:12:49 <Sreed> Geoff: What is actually get is the meta data resource may return any of those - metadata resource many things meta data elements itselt
20:13:17 <Bob> ack dug
20:14:15 <Sreed> Dug: Meta you get back could be next meta data element
20:14:30 <asir> q+
20:15:25 <Bob> ack asir
20:15:30 <Sreed> Dug: different data comming back so what I wrote is correct
20:15:58 <Sreed> Asir: It is confusing 
20:16:06 <dug> q+
20:16:31 <dug> Asir you're going too far
20:16:50 <Bob> ack dug
20:17:10 <Sre> Sre has joined #ws-ra
20:17:35 <asir> q+ to point out that the term 'dialect' is overloaded in this conversation
20:17:50 <Sreed> Dug: Single meta data unit with particular identifier 
20:18:01 <Bob> ack asir
20:18:01 <Zakim> asir, you wanted to point out that the term 'dialect' is overloaded in this conversation
20:18:21 <Sreed> Asir: Confusing conversation word dialect 
20:18:51 <Sreed> Dug: Using the word dialect - modifying 
20:19:05 <Sreed> Asir: particular statement is not correct
20:20:02 <Sreed> Asir: Why more than one dialect
20:20:11 <Sreed> Dug: One queue name
20:20:35 <Sreed> Asir: I agree metadata queue name it can have children can have more metadata section
20:20:46 <Sreed> Dug: Meta data wrapper
20:20:57 <Sreed> Asir: confusing the terminology
20:21:18 <Sreed> Bob: Asir suggest alternative text
20:21:57 <Sreed> Ashok: Not completely I didn't now the intent as some clarification required
20:22:30 <Sreed> Asir: It has the variable as wants to return not sure about specific information to put forward
20:22:55 <Sreed> Ashok: One metadata section which can different dialects which we need to spellout this
20:23:11 <Sreed> Asir: I understand & can work out on this
20:23:28 <Sreed> Bob: Asir & Ashok will produce alternative text
20:24:23 <dug> q+
20:24:26 <asir> we signed up for clarification text
20:24:51 <Sreed> ACTION: Asir & Ashok needs to work on the text 
20:24:51 <trackbot> Created ACTION-83 - & Ashok needs to work on the text  [on Asir Vedamuthu - due 2009-07-21].
20:25:12 <dug> I'd like 6680 added to the agenda then - sorry I misread the #'s
20:25:13 <Bob> ack dug
20:25:20 <dug> 6680 should be a no-brainer
20:25:36 <dug> ie. close w/no action
20:25:41 <Bob> topic: 6803
20:26:05 <Sreed> Bob: http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=6803
20:28:18 <Sreed> Geoff: Discussion to take place WS Fragment, some time needs to have discussions what we need to do
20:28:29 <Sreed> Geoff: Is any issue related to this
20:30:32 <Ashok> Bob:  Recoomenbd closing 6803 w/o prejudice
20:30:33 <dug> q_
20:30:34 <dug> q+
20:30:58 <Ashok> No objection
20:31:52 <Ashok> Bob: Can we dscuss 6680?
20:32:12 <Ashok> Dug:  Strictly editorial.  Opened by Gil
20:32:34 <Ashok> ... no longer applies.  We shd close 
20:33:01 <Ashok> Bob:  Any objection to close 6680 woth no action
20:33:11 <Ashok> Geoff:  I need a minute
20:33:42 <Ashok> ... ok no objection to closing
20:33:48 <Ashok> Gil:  No objection
20:33:50 <Geoff> q+
20:33:57 <dug> q-
20:34:34 <Ashok> RESOLUTion:  Issue 6680 closed with no action. 
20:34:54 <Bob> ack geo
20:35:31 <Ashok> Geoff:  We would like option to open a related issue
20:35:41 <dug> When the Delivery Format feature is engaged the formatting of the going events occurs after any filtering. 
20:36:05 <Ashok> Bob:  Yes.  That's what I meant by 'close with no prejudice'
20:36:28 <Bob> s/issue/issue related to or subsequent to 6803
20:36:33 <Ashok> Dug:  Topic: 6980
20:37:02 <Ashok> Dug:  Explains issue
20:37:04 <Geoff> q+
20:37:21 <Bob> ack geo
20:37:55 <dug> not Body, its the Event XML
20:37:59 <dug> q+
20:38:34 <Ashok> Geoff:  Implication is if we only filter over the content and if we have a header that influences the body we have a problem
20:38:51 <Ashok> ... this is possible 
20:39:10 <Wu> q+
20:39:15 <gpilz> q+
20:39:15 <Bob> ack dug
20:39:27 <Ashok> ... don't want to rule out something that may be impt for someone
20:39:39 <Ashok> Dug:  We are filtering on event XML
20:40:47 <Ashok> ... if they want to filter on envelope they need a different mechanism
20:41:24 <Bob> ack [Micro
20:41:31 <Bob> ack wu
20:41:42 <li> q+
20:42:00 <Ashok> Wu: This is good if it does not disrupt existing apps
20:42:29 <Bob> ack gpi
20:42:37 <Ashok> ... we shd double-check apps
20:42:56 <dug> bob - I can answer that
20:43:04 <Ashok> Gil:  What is 'raw  eveny XML'?  Does it incclude action URIs
20:43:26 <Ashok> s/incclude/include/
20:43:41 <Ashok> Dug:  Does not include action URIs
20:43:44 <Bob> ack li
20:44:13 <dug> Actually, ws-e says:  Context Node: the SOAP Envelope containing the notification.
20:44:19 <Ashok> Li:  Xpath filtering is missing the context
20:44:35 <gpilz> q+
20:44:36 <dug> q+
20:44:46 <gpilz> q-
20:44:47 <dug> q-
20:44:49 <gpilz> q+
20:44:50 <Ashok> ... what if the msg has multiple parts
20:45:12 <Ashok> Dug:  There can only be 1 part
20:45:55 <Ashok> ... we may need a separate issue about the  the shape of an event
20:47:08 <Ashok> ... filtering has to happen before the binding
20:47:34 <Ashok> Li:  If we have 2 parts we don't know which part is bound to body
20:47:49 <Ashok> Bob:  Do you need more time?
20:47:59 <Ashok> ... 1 weeks?
20:48:13 <dug> +1 to gil
20:48:22 <Ashok> Gil:  The issue hat Li just raised is related to issue 6401
20:48:40 <Zakim> - +0759029aacc
20:48:47 <Bob> ack gpi
20:48:48 <Ashok> s/hat/that/
20:49:13 <Tom_Rutt> q+
20:49:16 <Ashok> ... problem is how events are described
20:49:51 <Wu> q+
20:50:26 <Ashok> ... what do you do with a wrapped notification
20:50:49 <Bob> ack tom
20:51:21 <Ashok> ... my proposal for 6401 and Dug's proposal for this issue meshes very well
20:51:37 <Bob> ack wu
20:51:58 <Ashok> Tom:  I need a usecase why anyone would filetr on anything other than the first child
20:52:53 <Tom_Rutt> ws bp requirments (both for rpc/lit and doc/lit) allow only one child of soap:body.  I see no reason to filter on anything other than first child of soap body
20:53:25 <Ashok> Bob:  I don't hear a lot of disagreement but folks seems to want a bit more time.  Let's revisit next week
20:53:54 <li> one man's trash is another's gold
20:54:13 <dug> q+
20:54:37 <Ashok> Bob: Proposes we deal with 6980 and then 6692a
20:55:06 <Ashok> Dug:  Could we get a concrete proposal for 6692a?
20:55:15 <Bob> ack dug
20:55:39 <Ashok> Geoff:  You have talked abt 4 issues.
20:55:40 <dug> LOL Geoff - you're a dreamer
20:55:58 <Ashok> ... I am working on d.
20:56:20 <Ashok> a, b, c could be dealt with as separate issues
20:56:38 <dug> q+
20:56:56 <Bob> ack dug
20:57:02 <dug> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-resource-access/2009Jul/0015.html
20:57:06 <Ashok> Bob:  That's a good idea!
20:58:13 <gpilz> bring me the blue pages!
20:58:32 <dug> q+
20:58:55 <Ashok> Bob:  We will await proposal
20:59:13 <Ashok> Topic:  6421
20:59:23 <Ashok> Dug:  CNA?
20:59:47 <Ashok> No objections heard
21:00:12 <Ashok> RESOLUTION:  6421 closed with no action
21:00:16 <Zakim> -Wu_Chou
21:00:17 <Zakim> - +1.408.970.aadd
21:00:18 <Zakim> -Tom_Rutt
21:00:18 <Zakim> - +1.571.262.aabb
21:00:19 <Zakim> -[IBM]
21:00:20 <Zakim> -??P0
21:00:20 <Zakim> -??P9
21:00:21 <Zakim> -Yves
21:00:22 <Ashok> Adjourned
21:00:23 <Zakim> - +1.408.642.aaee
21:00:25 <Zakim> -[Microsoft]
21:00:26 <gpilz> gpilz has left #ws-ra
21:00:26 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/07/14-ws-ra-minutes.html Yves
21:00:35 <Yves> trackbot, end telcon
21:00:35 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
21:00:35 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been [Microsoft], +0207827aaaa, +1.571.262.aabb, Paul, +0759029aacc, +1.408.970.aadd, Ashok_Malhotra, [IBM], Wu_Chou, Tom_Rutt, +1.408.642.aaee,
21:00:36 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
21:00:36 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/07/14-ws-ra-minutes.html trackbot
21:00:37 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
21:00:37 <RRSAgent> I see 2 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2009/07/14-ws-ra-actions.rdf :
21:00:37 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Wu will work on information related to the migration (paragraph) [1]
21:00:37 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/07/14-ws-ra-irc#T19-57-11
21:00:37 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Asir & Ashok needs to work on the text  [2]
21:00:37 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/07/14-ws-ra-irc#T20-24-51
21:00:38 <Zakim> ... Yves