IRC log of bpwg on 2009-07-07
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 13:28:06 [RRSAgent]
- RRSAgent has joined #bpwg
- 13:28:06 [RRSAgent]
- logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/07/07-bpwg-irc
- 13:28:08 [trackbot]
- RRSAgent, make logs public
- 13:28:08 [Zakim]
- Zakim has joined #bpwg
- 13:28:10 [trackbot]
- Zakim, this will be BPWG
- 13:28:10 [Zakim]
- ok, trackbot; I see MWI_BPWG()9:30AM scheduled to start in 2 minutes
- 13:28:11 [trackbot]
- Meeting: Mobile Web Best Practices Working Group Teleconference
- 13:28:11 [trackbot]
- Date: 07 July 2009
- 13:29:13 [Zakim]
- MWI_BPWG()9:30AM has now started
- 13:29:13 [cgi-irc]
- cgi-irc has joined #bpwg
- 13:29:20 [Zakim]
- +DKA
- 13:29:31 [adam]
- zakim,code?
- 13:29:31 [Zakim]
- the conference code is 2794 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), adam
- 13:29:39 [miguel]
- miguel has joined #bpwg
- 13:29:41 [DKA]
- DKA has joined #bpwg
- 13:29:53 [DKA]
- zakim, who's here?
- 13:29:53 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see DKA
- 13:29:54 [Zakim]
- On IRC I see DKA, miguel, adam, Zakim, RRSAgent, yeliz, francois, trackbot
- 13:30:01 [Zakim]
- +adam
- 13:30:13 [francois]
- Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-bpwg/2009Jul/0010.html
- 13:30:16 [francois]
- Chair: DKA
- 13:30:54 [francois]
- Regrets: nacho, jeff, abel, brucel, achuter, tom, phila
- 13:31:33 [Zakim]
- +Francois
- 13:31:46 [EdC]
- EdC has joined #bpwg
- 13:32:00 [SeanP]
- SeanP has joined #bpwg
- 13:32:24 [DKA]
- zakim, who's here?
- 13:32:24 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see DKA, adam, Francois
- 13:32:26 [Zakim]
- On IRC I see SeanP, EdC, DKA, miguel, adam, Zakim, RRSAgent, yeliz, francois, trackbot
- 13:32:40 [Zakim]
- +??P1
- 13:32:47 [yeliz]
- zakim, ??P1 is yeliz
- 13:32:47 [Zakim]
- +yeliz; got it
- 13:32:56 [yeliz]
- zakim, mute me
- 13:32:56 [Zakim]
- yeliz should now be muted
- 13:33:14 [Zakim]
- +miguel
- 13:33:30 [Zakim]
- +SeanP
- 13:34:24 [Zakim]
- +EdC
- 13:34:59 [francois]
- Scribe: francois
- 13:35:26 [francois]
- Regrets+ chaals
- 13:36:14 [jo]
- jo has joined #bpwg
- 13:36:21 [jo]
- zakim, code?
- 13:36:21 [Zakim]
- the conference code is 2794 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), jo
- 13:36:36 [francois]
- Topic: Administrativa
- 13:36:42 [francois]
- DKA: do we still have a WG?
- 13:36:57 [francois]
- -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-bpwg/2009Jul/0001.html FD's announcement of charter extension
- 13:36:59 [Zakim]
- + +0208995aaaa
- 13:37:11 [jo]
- zakim, aaaa is me
- 13:37:11 [Zakim]
- +jo; got it
- 13:37:28 [francois]
- francois: charter extension approved until the end of the year!
- 13:37:30 [jo]
- /me is happy to have his existential doubts settled
- 13:37:35 [francois]
- dka: happy to exist.
- 13:38:15 [francois]
- dka: question about calls during summer period. I'll be away end of July beginning of August.
- 13:38:28 [francois]
- ... That does not necessarily entail we need to cancel the calls.
- 13:38:36 [EdC]
- Should we poll people present?
- 13:39:06 [francois]
- francois: Yes, I'll be away next two weeks.
- 13:39:34 [francois]
- dka: I just want to avoid having a call scheduled and people end up waiting for other participants to join.
- 13:39:52 [EdC]
- I have no plans to be absent in the coming 5 weeks.
- 13:40:05 [jo]
- /me is away from July 29 to Aug 17
- 13:40:17 [francois]
- ... Francois, do you think you can set up a poll?
- 13:40:54 [francois]
- francois: sure. One thing is that if Jo and Dan are both away, we should cancel the corresponding call(s). BPWG can't survive without chairs.
- 13:41:04 [DKA]
- ACTION-986?
- 13:41:04 [trackbot]
- ACTION-986 -- François Daoust to enquires as to status of CSS Media Queries Rec -- due 2009-07-07 -- PENDINGREVIEW
- 13:41:04 [trackbot]
- http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/986
- 13:41:11 [francois]
- Topic: Use of media queries
- 13:41:37 [francois]
- -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-bpwg/2009Jul/0009.html Status of CSS media queries
- 13:41:52 [francois]
- dka: let's start with ACTION-986 on francois
- 13:41:55 [francois]
- ACTION-986?
- 13:41:55 [trackbot]
- ACTION-986 -- François Daoust to enquires as to status of CSS Media Queries Rec -- due 2009-07-07 -- PENDINGREVIEW
- 13:41:55 [trackbot]
- http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/986
- 13:43:52 [francois]
- francois: the important point is that the CSS media queries spec is not blocked for lack of implementations.
- 13:44:06 [francois]
- ... There are some in mobile browsers although not in all browsers, for sure.
- 13:44:25 [francois]
- ... It really depends on what we want to put in the best practices.
- 13:44:34 [EdC]
- Shouldn't the BP have a caveat regarding the implementation of various query elements, i.e. "device-width" vs. "color" or "orientation" ?
- 13:44:58 [francois]
- dka: Some people wanted to remove all mentions to CSS media queries. I think it should be emphasized for mobile developers.
- 13:45:22 [francois]
- adam: What is it that we want to specifically call out about CSS media queries?
- 13:45:57 [francois]
- dka: I think it is particularly relevant to mobile developers, because it allows to use specific device capabilities.
- 13:46:22 [francois]
- ... it's not particularly dynamic capabilities, but still a good thing to have.
- 13:46:57 [francois]
- adam: OK. I think the possibilities are pretty limited for me as a developer, but I agree.
- 13:47:39 [jo]
- q+
- 13:48:16 [DKA]
- ack jo
- 13:48:37 [francois]
- dka: francois, do you think you can take an action to craft some text?
- 13:48:56 [EdC]
- I suspect that device-width is generally supported in CSS media queries because of other elements such as viewport.
- 13:49:18 [francois]
- francois: Sure. I think I agree with Adam that it's not that super useful. Some properties are not exactly supported, and the possibilities are not super wow.
- 13:49:43 [EdC]
- q+
- 13:49:43 [francois]
- jo: I think it's actually not a best practice.
- 13:50:41 [francois]
- ... If Dan can have the tons of developers he knows that consider use of CSS media queries as a best practice to explain how they use it.
- 13:50:48 [francois]
- ... that would be great.
- 13:50:59 [DKA]
- ack edc
- 13:51:33 [adam]
- q+
- 13:51:39 [francois]
- EdC: CSS media queries are only useful in the context of viewports.
- 13:52:43 [francois]
- dka: ok, why don't you give me an action to see how people use CSS media queries around here?
- 13:52:57 [francois]
- ... and an action on Francois to craft some nominal text on CSS media queries.
- 13:53:56 [francois]
- adam: I think francois should not spend time for the time being. Let's fine people who use it in practice.
- 13:54:23 [francois]
- ... If you can find somebody who has some insight here, then that would be useful.
- 13:54:24 [francois]
- Q+
- 13:54:35 [francois]
- dka: I'm happy to take an action.
- 13:55:03 [francois]
- ACTION: dan to find people who use CSS media queries to tell whether it's a BP
- 13:55:03 [trackbot]
- Created ACTION-994 - Find people who use CSS media queries to tell whether it's a BP [on Daniel Appelquist - due 2009-07-14].
- 13:55:03 [DKA]
- ack francois
- 13:55:52 [francois]
- http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG
- 13:55:52 [adam]
- q-
- 13:57:04 [francois]
- francois: just to note that BPWG's home page actually uses CSS media queries to send different stylesheets depending on the incoming devices.
- 13:57:15 [francois]
- dka: OK, that's one data point.
- 13:57:29 [jo]
- q+
- 13:57:42 [francois]
- adam: I still need to update a few links in the document.
- 13:57:43 [EdC]
- Wasn't there a long-standing issue with canvases and svg?
- 13:58:04 [francois]
- jo: I have some typos for you, adam. There's also quite a few open actions and issues against this document.
- 13:58:12 [francois]
- ... We need to resolve them.
- 13:58:29 [francois]
- adam: Yes. There's also some SVG/canvas issue opened on Jeff.
- 13:59:15 [francois]
- dka: Is there anything that prevents us from resolving the issues?
- 13:59:21 [francois]
- ... Let's try to enumerate them.
- 14:00:16 [francois]
- jo: let me paste the URI to the opened issues and actions.
- 14:00:16 [jo]
- http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/products/14
- 14:01:34 [francois]
- Topic: ISSUE-262
- 14:01:37 [francois]
- ISSUE-262?
- 14:01:37 [trackbot]
- ISSUE-262 -- Discuss the option to offer choices of presentation as a best practices for mobile web apps -- OPEN
- 14:01:37 [trackbot]
- http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/issues/262
- 14:01:45 [francois]
- dka: Is this something that we can close?
- 14:02:07 [EdC]
- Isn't 262 handled somehow in the practice re: classes of devices?
- 14:02:08 [francois]
- adam: can somebody summarize what it means?
- 14:02:28 [DKA]
- http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/Drafts/BestPractices-2.0/ED-mobile-bp2-20090619#d1e1515
- 14:03:17 [francois]
- dka: the issue is whether the "Use Device Classification to Simplify Content Adaptation" is a best practice or not.
- 14:03:26 [francois]
- adam: the Google's home page does this.
- 14:03:39 [francois]
- dka: I don't think this is very controversial, actually.
- 14:03:44 [francois]
- ... I suggest that we resolve it.
- 14:04:10 [DKA]
- PROPOSED RESOLUTION: CLose issue-262 and keep section 3.6.5 in mwabp.
- 14:04:19 [francois]
- s/Use Device Classification to Simplify Content Adaptation/Offer Users a Choice of Interfaces/
- 14:04:23 [EdC]
- +1
- 14:04:26 [francois]
- +1
- 14:04:28 [DKA]
- +1
- 14:04:28 [adam]
- +1
- 14:04:30 [miguel]
- +1
- 14:04:41 [SeanP]
- +1
- 14:04:53 [DKA]
- RESOLUTION: CLose issue-262 and keep section 3.6.5 in mwabp.
- 14:04:56 [yeliz]
- +1
- 14:05:01 [francois]
- RESOLUTION: CLose issue-262 and keep section 3.6.5 in mwabp.
- 14:05:04 [francois]
- close ISSUE-262
- 14:05:04 [trackbot]
- ISSUE-262 Discuss the option to offer choices of presentation as a best practices for mobile web apps closed
- 14:05:37 [francois]
- Topic: ISSUE-263 - how to keep the screen alive?
- 14:05:43 [francois]
- ISSUE-263?
- 14:05:43 [trackbot]
- ISSUE-263 -- How to keep the screen alive (re null gestures) - what to recommend? -- OPEN
- 14:05:43 [trackbot]
- http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/issues/263
- 14:05:56 [francois]
- dka: I suggest that we close it. We didn't go anywhere.
- 14:06:11 [francois]
- adam: I think it would rather be a bad practice to keep the screen alive. I'd rather close this.
- 14:06:41 [DKA]
- PROPOSED RESOLUTION: We close issue-263 and drop the idea of keeping the screen alive as a bp.
- 14:06:46 [DKA]
- +1
- 14:06:50 [francois]
- +1
- 14:06:54 [adam]
- +1
- 14:06:55 [EdC]
- 0
- 14:06:56 [miguel]
- +1
- 14:07:28 [francois]
- dka: Yes, this would be left to implementations.
- 14:07:38 [francois]
- RESOLUTION: We close issue-263 and drop the idea of keeping the screen alive as a bp.
- 14:07:46 [francois]
- close issue-263
- 14:07:46 [trackbot]
- ISSUE-263 How to keep the screen alive (re null gestures) - what to recommend? closed
- 14:08:00 [francois]
- Topic: ISSUE-264 - progressive enhancement
- 14:08:17 [francois]
- adam: I think this was done when I rewrote the section on the delivery context.
- 14:08:22 [francois]
- ... So that's complete.
- 14:08:25 [DKA]
- PROPOSED RESOLUTION: Close Issue-264 as it has been completed.
- 14:08:28 [adam]
- +1
- 14:09:09 [adam]
- http://www.w3.org/TR/mwabp/#bp-devcap-scripting (captures aspects of the original concept)
- 14:09:24 [francois]
- +1
- 14:09:27 [DKA]
- +1
- 14:09:46 [francois]
- RESOLUTION: Close Issue-264 as it has been completed.
- 14:09:57 [EdC]
- 0
- 14:10:09 [francois]
- close ISSUE-264
- 14:10:09 [trackbot]
- ISSUE-264 How to rephrase progressive enhancement to make it fit as a BP? closed
- 14:10:27 [DKA]
- ISSUE-265?
- 14:10:27 [trackbot]
- ISSUE-265 -- Discussion of Jonathan's Submission ref separation of structure presentation and behavior at http://docs.google.com/View?docid=dhpvgnmn_54d7cbhrhn -- OPEN
- 14:10:27 [trackbot]
- http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/issues/265
- 14:10:29 [francois]
- Topic: ISSUE-265 - Jonathan's submission
- 14:10:39 [francois]
- adam: I had an action to respond to this.
- 14:11:10 [francois]
- ... I should just complete my action and respond, I guess.
- 14:11:39 [francois]
- dka: I think we should close the issue and leave you finish your action.
- 14:11:39 [DKA]
- PROPOSED RESOLUTION: close issue-265 and keep Adam's action open to write up a note to Jonathan why he does not think this makes it as a best practice.
- 14:11:48 [adam]
- +1
- 14:11:56 [DKA]
- +1
- 14:12:13 [francois]
- +1
- 14:12:16 [francois]
- RESOLUTION: close issue-265 and keep Adam's action open to write up a note to Jonathan why he does not think this makes it as a best practice
- 14:12:22 [francois]
- close issue-265
- 14:12:22 [trackbot]
- ISSUE-265 Discussion of Jonathan's Submission ref separation of structure presentation and behavior at http://docs.google.com/View?docid=dhpvgnmn_54d7cbhrhn closed
- 14:12:40 [francois]
- Topic: ISSUE-268 - Test cases to illustrate MWABP
- 14:12:47 [DKA]
- ISSUE-268?
- 14:12:47 [trackbot]
- ISSUE-268 -- Test cases to illustrate mobile web application best practices -- OPEN
- 14:12:47 [trackbot]
- http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/issues/268
- 14:12:51 [francois]
- q+
- 14:12:56 [DKA]
- ack francois
- 14:13:10 [jo]
- ack me
- 14:13:14 [DKA]
- ACTION-721?
- 14:13:14 [trackbot]
- ACTION-721 -- François Daoust to prepare a report's form to fill to test Aaron static/dynamic example -- due 2008-08-14 -- OPEN
- 14:13:14 [trackbot]
- http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/721
- 14:13:45 [francois]
- francois: I miserably failed to complete my action here
- 14:13:55 [DKA]
- PROPOSED RESOLUTION: We abandon action-721 and issue-268 for this version of the Mobile Web Application Best Practices and defer it to v2.
- 14:14:03 [francois]
- ... I suggest we drop it. It was supposed to be the start of a complete testing framework.
- 14:14:27 [francois]
- adam: It would not be trivial to do it.
- 14:14:28 [DKA]
- PROPOSED RESOLUTION: We abandon action-721 and issue-268 for this version of the Mobile Web Application Best Practices.
- 14:14:33 [EdC]
- +1
- 14:14:34 [francois]
- +1
- 14:14:36 [DKA]
- +1
- 14:14:47 [adam]
- +1 (I wish we had more bench-marking / testing but it would be a very big task).
- 14:15:25 [francois]
- RESOLUTION: We abandon action-721 and issue-268 for this version of the Mobile Web Application Best Practices.
- 14:15:34 [francois]
- close ACTION-721
- 14:15:34 [trackbot]
- ACTION-721 Prepare a report's form to fill to test Aaron static/dynamic example closed
- 14:15:39 [francois]
- close ISSUE-268
- 14:15:39 [trackbot]
- ISSUE-268 Test cases to illustrate mobile web application best practices closed
- 14:15:59 [DKA]
- ISSUE-279?
- 14:15:59 [trackbot]
- ISSUE-279 -- 4.3.3 Provide Disclosures that are Timely and Accessible -- OPEN
- 14:15:59 [trackbot]
- http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/issues/279
- 14:16:03 [francois]
- dka: [mumbling about mobileAppOK]
- 14:16:26 [francois]
- Topic: ISSUE-279 - Provide timely disclosures
- 14:16:33 [francois]
- adam: I think this is done.
- 14:16:35 [DKA]
- ACTION-861?
- 14:16:35 [trackbot]
- ACTION-861 -- Bryan Sullivan to propose text ref ISSUE-279 -- due 2008-10-15 -- OPEN
- 14:16:35 [trackbot]
- http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/861
- 14:16:46 [francois]
- dka: is the action completed?
- 14:16:59 [francois]
- adam: yes, I think Bryan did that.
- 14:17:13 [DKA]
- PROPOSED RESOLUTION: The text has moved on since the points in ISSUE-279 were made so we will close ISSUE-279 and ACTION-861.
- 14:17:27 [EdC]
- So these are no longer relevant...
- 14:17:27 [DKA]
- +1
- 14:17:29 [EdC]
- +1
- 14:17:32 [francois]
- +1
- 14:17:44 [DKA]
- q?
- 14:17:53 [francois]
- RESOLUTION: The text has moved on since the points in ISSUE-279 were made so we will close ISSUE-279 and ACTION-861.
- 14:17:58 [francois]
- close ISSUE-279
- 14:17:58 [trackbot]
- ISSUE-279 4.3.3 Provide Disclosures that are Timely and Accessible closed
- 14:18:02 [francois]
- close ACTION-861
- 14:18:02 [trackbot]
- ACTION-861 Propose text ref ISSUE-279 closed
- 14:18:22 [francois]
- Topic: ISSUE 280 - User awareness and control
- 14:18:26 [DKA]
- ISSUE-280?
- 14:18:26 [trackbot]
- ISSUE-280 -- 3.3 User awareness and control -- OPEN
- 14:18:26 [trackbot]
- http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/issues/280
- 14:18:39 [francois]
- adam: same here, it predates the discussion we had during last F2F. I think it can be safely closed.
- 14:19:07 [DKA]
- PROPOSED RESOLUTION: The text has moved on since the points made in ISSUE-280 so we will close ISSUE-280.
- 14:19:13 [DKA]
- +1
- 14:19:19 [adam]
- +1
- 14:19:19 [EdC]
- 0
- 14:19:50 [francois]
- RESOLUTION: The text has moved on since the points made in ISSUE-280 so we will close ISSUE-280.
- 14:19:55 [DKA]
- ISSUE-281?
- 14:19:55 [trackbot]
- ISSUE-281 -- MWA should disclose their capabilities in HTTP requests, to allow service adaptation -- OPEN
- 14:19:55 [trackbot]
- http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/issues/281
- 14:19:56 [francois]
- close ISSUE-280
- 14:19:56 [trackbot]
- ISSUE-280 3.3 User awareness and control closed
- 14:20:41 [francois]
- adam: It's been dormant for some time now.
- 14:20:49 [francois]
- ... It's out of scope.
- 14:20:57 [DKA]
- PROPOSED RESOLUTION: WRT ISSUE-281, this is out of scope for MWABP so we will close ISSUE-281 and take no action.
- 14:21:01 [adam]
- +1
- 14:21:02 [francois]
- ... I'm for closing it
- 14:21:05 [DKA]
- +1
- 14:21:25 [EdC]
- +1
- 14:21:33 [francois]
- i/adam: It's/Topic: ISSUE-281 - capabilities disclosure in HTTP requests/
- 14:21:37 [francois]
- RESOLUTION: WRT ISSUE-281, this is out of scope for MWABP so we will close ISSUE-281 and take no action.
- 14:21:40 [francois]
- close ISSUE-281
- 14:21:40 [trackbot]
- ISSUE-281 MWA should disclose their capabilities in HTTP requests, to allow service adaptation closed
- 14:21:42 [DKA]
- ISSUE-287?
- 14:21:43 [trackbot]
- ISSUE-287 -- Propose merging 3.1.1 and 3.1.2 in MWABP -- OPEN
- 14:21:43 [trackbot]
- http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/issues/287
- 14:21:59 [francois]
- Topic: ISSUE-287 - merging 3.1.1 and 3.1.2
- 14:22:09 [francois]
- dka: does this still make sense?
- 14:22:25 [EdC]
- no longer relevant => close it.
- 14:22:28 [francois]
- adam: instead of merging, we replaced them with application data. So the topic's moot.
- 14:22:40 [DKA]
- PROPOSED RESOLUTION: Issue-287 is moot so we will close issue-287.
- 14:22:43 [EdC]
- +1
- 14:22:53 [DKA]
- +1
- 14:23:16 [adam]
- +1
- 14:23:17 [francois]
- +1
- 14:23:18 [francois]
- RESOLUTION: Issue-287 is moot so we will close issue-287.
- 14:23:21 [francois]
- close ISSUE-287
- 14:23:21 [trackbot]
- ISSUE-287 Propose merging 3.1.1 and 3.1.2 in MWABP closed
- 14:23:34 [francois]
- Topic: ISSUE-290 - desirable goal of MWABP statements
- 14:23:36 [DKA]
- ISSUE-290?
- 14:23:36 [trackbot]
- ISSUE-290 -- Desirable Goal of MWABP statements -- OPEN
- 14:23:36 [trackbot]
- http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/issues/290
- 14:23:50 [francois]
- adam: Jonathan raised this during last F2F. We had no further discussion on this.
- 14:24:09 [EdC]
- q+
- 14:24:11 [francois]
- ... I don't think desirable goals would add much value, they would just add text.
- 14:24:37 [EdC]
- q-
- 14:24:47 [francois]
- dka: considering Johnathan is not here, should we give him some kind of deadline to come up with some text?
- 14:24:55 [francois]
- adam: He did propose some document.
- 14:25:00 [DKA]
- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-bpwg/2009Mar/0132.html
- 14:26:24 [DKA]
- q?
- 14:26:26 [francois]
- dka: I'm not so happy about so quickly abandoning this idea.
- 14:26:44 [francois]
- ... What do you think, francois?
- 14:27:32 [francois]
- francois: it's related to the icons we want to have, but don't really have for the time being, right?
- 14:27:56 [francois]
- adam: It's close but not exactly the same. We should still keep the icons.
- 14:28:36 [francois]
- dka: the desirable goals are more text we may want to add to each statement.
- 14:28:53 [francois]
- ... It just seems like a bit of work.
- 14:28:58 [francois]
- q+
- 14:29:14 [francois]
- ... Within 3.4 for instance, we could include a bit more text about performance
- 14:30:21 [DKA]
- ack francois
- 14:30:22 [francois]
- ... Why don't we leave it open and somebody send a message to Jonathan about ISSUE-290?
- 14:31:51 [francois]
- francois: I'm unclear about the added value compared to the existing structure of the document. Consider the section on User-Experience, it's pretty clear the BPs are about improving the user experience.
- 14:32:39 [francois]
- dka: It may be a way to flag a BP that sits in a section and that also has an impact on some other section.
- 14:33:01 [francois]
- ... That would be kind of a low impact way to do what Jonathan is suggesting.
- 14:33:40 [francois]
- adam: As a principal, I don't have any objection against this.
- 14:34:44 [francois]
- ... Sections preambles already try to mention that. For instance the Conservative User of Resources and the section on User Experience
- 14:36:28 [DKA]
- Adam should look through J.J.'s email and apply additional text as necessary to reflect the additional desireable goals as a note after each individual BP.
- 14:36:56 [DKA]
- ACTION: Adam to look through J.J.'s email and apply additional text as necessary to reflect the additional desireable goals as a note after each individual BP.
- 14:36:56 [trackbot]
- Created ACTION-995 - Look through J.J.'s email and apply additional text as necessary to reflect the additional desireable goals as a note after each individual BP. [on Adam Connors - due 2009-07-14].
- 14:37:18 [francois]
- dka: so we'll leave ISSUE-290 opened for the time being.
- 14:37:25 [francois]
- ... with an attached action
- 14:37:57 [DKA]
- ISSUE-291?
- 14:37:57 [trackbot]
- ISSUE-291 -- widget best practices -- OPEN
- 14:37:57 [trackbot]
- http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/issues/291
- 14:38:12 [francois]
- Topic: ISSUE-291 - widget best practices
- 14:38:36 [francois]
- dka: my view is that we should not do this.
- 14:38:44 [francois]
- ... and that we should close the issue.
- 14:38:50 [francois]
- ... Not because it's not important.
- 14:39:18 [EdC]
- At least an explicit statement in the document about the non-inclusion of widgets?
- 14:39:24 [francois]
- ... But because there is not enough implementation experience in the wild to say things about that at this time.
- 14:39:43 [francois]
- ... I talked with Art Barstow, chair of the Webapps WG about a Widget Best Practices document.
- 14:40:03 [francois]
- ... We agreed that if it were to be done, the Web apps WG would be the correct place to do it.
- 14:40:15 [DKA]
- PROPOSED RESOLUTION: The group will not add widget BPs to MWABP and will not work on a special widget BP doc at this time; close ISSUE-291.
- 14:40:17 [adam]
- +1
- 14:40:18 [EdC]
- q+
- 14:40:25 [DKA]
- ack edc
- 14:40:55 [francois]
- EdC: will you put a note that we exclude widgets from the document?
- 14:41:06 [adam]
- http://www.w3.org/TR/mwabp/#webapp-defined
- 14:41:11 [francois]
- adam: There's already some text in 1.3.2. I think it's fine as it stands.
- 14:41:56 [francois]
- dka: I think we need to modify that text. Remove the words "being considered"
- 14:42:43 [francois]
- ... Two different things. In one sense, the BPs are applicable to widgets, because it's just a package for a web app.
- 14:43:06 [francois]
- ... But there's some specific stuff in widgets, such as localization.
- 14:43:11 [DKA]
- PROPOSED RESOLUTION: The group will not add widget BPs to MWABP and will not work on a special widget BP doc at this time; close ISSUE-291. We will put an explicit statement in the doc stating that widgets-specifc BPs are out in scope because not enough implementation experience exists at time of writing.
- 14:43:26 [francois]
- +1
- 14:43:27 [EdC]
- +1
- 14:43:32 [adam]
- +1
- 14:43:58 [miguel]
- +1
- 14:44:08 [francois]
- RESOLUTION: The group will not add widget BPs to MWABP and will not work on a special widget BP doc at this time; close ISSUE-291. We will put an explicit statement in the doc stating that widgets-specifc BPs are out in scope because not enough implementation experience exists at time of writing.
- 14:44:20 [DKA]
- Also think you should change the reference to: http://www.w3.org/TR/widgets/
- 14:44:55 [francois]
- close ISSUE-291
- 14:44:55 [trackbot]
- ISSUE-291 widget best practices closed
- 14:46:29 [francois]
- dka: one open issue remaining on MWABP, that's good!
- 14:47:33 [francois]
- Topic: CT - URI patterns
- 14:47:44 [francois]
- dka: Eduardo, you wanted to talk about that.
- 14:47:54 [EdC]
- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-bpwg/2009Jun/0101.html
- 14:48:57 [francois]
- EdC: this is Francois' response to my comment that explains why the note is correct, but is terse. The meaning is likely to be lost by readers.
- 14:49:30 [francois]
- -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-bpwg/2009Jun/0108.html Eduardo's proposed clarification
- 14:49:42 [EdC]
- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-bpwg/2009Jun/0108.html
- 14:50:05 [francois]
- EdC: The sentence in the guidelines has all the semantics required, but is a bit unclear. So I suggest to add a clarifying sentence.
- 14:50:56 [francois]
- dka: can we turn that into a proposed resolution?
- 14:52:11 [jo]
- PROPOSED RESOLUTION: The URI of the request plays no part in determining wehter request header values are modified and in particular,whether or not a urI PATTERN IS MENTIONED IN 4.2.9 IS NOT MATERIAL TO THIS JUDGEMNT
- 14:52:12 [EdC]
- PROPOSED RESOLUTION: add the following sentence to the 2nd note of 4.1.5: "For the sake of clarity: a URI not matching those specified in 4.2.9 does not
- 14:52:12 [EdC]
- imply that the corresponding site delivers content unsuitable for mobile devices."
- 14:52:56 [francois]
- jo: I just wanted to avoid the double negative.
- 14:53:53 [francois]
- ... I think it is better to say that the URI of the request plays no part here, that is basically what we're trying to say
- 14:53:54 [francois]
- q+
- 14:53:58 [francois]
- ack fran
- 14:53:59 [DKA]
- ack framc
- 14:54:51 [francois]
- francois: agree with Jo. Double negative is usually unclear.
- 14:55:14 [EdC]
- "The purpose of the note was to emphasize the opposite: the absence of a
- 14:55:15 [EdC]
- mobile indication in a URI pattern does not mean that HTTP header field
- 14:55:15 [EdC]
- values should be transformed."
- 14:55:27 [DKA]
- +1 to Jo's resolution and giving the editor some leeway.
- 14:55:52 [francois]
- jo: can you leave it to the editor to come up with some text on the basis that it will be easier to understand?
- 14:56:58 [jo]
- ACTION: Jo to add agreed text to 4.1.5 trying to avoid inserting too many negatives, not, not
- 14:56:59 [trackbot]
- Created ACTION-996 - Add agreed text to 4.1.5 trying to avoid inserting too many negatives, not, not [on Jo Rabin - due 2009-07-14].
- 14:57:36 [DKA]
- -1 to tea.
- 14:57:40 [francois]
- jo: Eduardo, do you agree?
- 14:57:46 [jo]
- +1 to tea party
- 14:58:35 [francois]
- EdC: shouldn't it rather be "and whether or not the URI pattern matches one of those defined in 4.2.9"?
- 14:59:04 [jo]
- PROPOSED RESOLUTION: The URI referred to inthe request plays no part in determining whether request header values are modified and in particular,whether or not a a URI ,matches the PATTERNs MENTIONED IN 4.2.9 IS NOT MATERIAL TO THIS JUDGEMNT
- 15:00:06 [EdC]
- +1
- 15:00:08 [Zakim]
- -jo
- 15:00:49 [DKA]
- +1
- 15:01:07 [francois]
- RESOLUTION: The URI referred to in the request plays no part in determining whether request header values are modified and in particular,whether or not a a URI, matches the patterns mentioned in 4.2.9 IS NOT MATERIAL TO THIS JUDGEMNT
- 15:01:29 [francois]
- dka: That sounds like a lovely coda to our great call, today!
- 15:01:42 [francois]
- ... Thanks everyone!
- 15:01:44 [Zakim]
- -DKA
- 15:01:46 [miguel]
- bye
- 15:01:47 [Zakim]
- -Francois
- 15:01:49 [Zakim]
- -adam
- 15:01:49 [yeliz]
- bye
- 15:01:53 [Zakim]
- -EdC
- 15:01:54 [Zakim]
- -miguel
- 15:01:58 [francois]
- [Call adjourned]
- 15:01:59 [miguel]
- miguel has left #bpwg
- 15:02:00 [Zakim]
- -yeliz
- 15:02:24 [Zakim]
- -SeanP
- 15:02:26 [Zakim]
- MWI_BPWG()9:30AM has ended
- 15:02:28 [Zakim]
- Attendees were DKA, adam, Francois, yeliz, miguel, SeanP, EdC, +0208995aaaa, jo
- 15:02:50 [francois]
- RRSAgent, draft minutes
- 15:02:50 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/07/07-bpwg-minutes.html francois
- 15:27:37 [francois]
- zakim, bye
- 15:27:37 [Zakim]
- Zakim has left #bpwg
- 15:27:41 [francois]
- RRSAgent, bye
- 15:27:41 [RRSAgent]
- I see 3 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2009/07/07-bpwg-actions.rdf :
- 15:27:41 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: dan to find people who use CSS media queries to tell whether it's a BP [1]
- 15:27:41 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/07/07-bpwg-irc#T13-55-03
- 15:27:41 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: Adam to look through J.J.'s email and apply additional text as necessary to reflect the additional desireable goals as a note after each individual BP. [2]
- 15:27:41 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/07/07-bpwg-irc#T14-36-56
- 15:27:41 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: Jo to add agreed text to 4.1.5 trying to avoid inserting too many negatives, not, not [3]
- 15:27:41 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/07/07-bpwg-irc#T14-56-58