19:42:06 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #ssn
19:42:06 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/07/01-ssn-irc
19:42:15 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #ssn
19:42:22 <Holger> zakim, this will be INC_SSN
19:42:23 <Zakim> ok, Holger; I see INC_SSN()4:00PM scheduled to start in 18 minutes
19:42:35 <Holger> ScribeNick: Holger
19:42:51 <Holger> Meeting: SSN XG 01-July-2009
19:42:58 <Holger> Chair: Holger
19:43:26 <Holger> Topic: Amendment to last meeting - apologies
19:43:51 <Holger> Simon, Victor, Krzysztof, Luis, Jesus, Fernando, Kevin
19:43:58 <Holger> Topic: Apologies (today)
19:44:04 <Holger> Simon, Francisco, Laurent, Amit Sheth
19:46:15 <Holger> Topic: ---Meeting today dedicated to discussion of existing Ontologies---
19:46:35 <jgraybea> jgraybea has joined #ssn
19:46:54 <jgraybea> Hello Holger
19:47:03 <Holger> Hi John
19:50:13 <jgraybea> So we will use IRC, but not for the technical notes?
19:50:53 <Holger> Yes, Michael will take the notes his way and put the PDF on the wiki
19:52:02 <jgraybea> I would like to capture as much of the content as possible on http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/ssn/wiki/SSN_Ontologies_Attributes
19:52:28 <jgraybea> I will take those notes -- will that be OK with you and Holger? Or too redundant?
19:52:41 <Zakim> INC_SSN()4:00PM has now started
19:52:48 <Zakim> +Holger
19:53:04 <Danh_DERI> Danh_DERI has joined #ssn
19:53:32 <Holger> Notes can be too redundant ;-)
19:53:45 <Holger> Notes CAN'T be too redundant ;-)
19:53:48 <Zakim> + +1.831.775.aaaa
19:53:50 <Holger> can't
19:54:49 <janowicz> janowicz has joined #ssn
19:55:51 <Zakim> + +1.585.919.aabb - is perhaps klanz
19:58:06 <krp> krp has joined #ssn
19:58:11 <Rodrigo> Rodrigo has joined #ssn
19:58:18 <jgraybea> just to finish that thread for the log herre, we will defer updating the SSN Ontologies Attributes page to after the meeting
19:58:46 <Victor> Victor has joined #ssn
19:58:54 <Victor> hello!
19:59:03 <Zakim> +krp
19:59:20 <Holger> Hi Victor
19:59:47 <michael> michael has joined #ssn
19:59:53 <Arthur> Arthur has joined #ssn
20:00:35 <cory> cory has joined #ssn
20:00:37 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
20:00:48 <Zakim> +??P5
20:01:04 <Holger> zakim, who's on the phone
20:01:04 <Zakim> I don't understand 'who's on the phone', Holger
20:01:09 <Holger> zakim, who's on the phone?
20:01:09 <Zakim> On the phone I see Holger, +1.831.775.aaaa, klanz, krp, [IPcaller], ??P5
20:01:14 <ocorcho> ocorcho has joined #ssn
20:01:21 <michael> zakim, ??P5 is michael
20:01:21 <Zakim> +michael; got it
20:01:38 <Zakim> +carlosI
20:01:43 <Holger> zakim, who's on the phone?
20:01:43 <Zakim> On the phone I see Holger, +1.831.775.aaaa, klanz, krp, [IPcaller], michael, carlosI
20:01:50 <kerry> kerry has joined #ssn
20:01:50 <Zakim> +??P6
20:02:03 <Victor> zakim, calosI is me
20:02:03 <Zakim> sorry, Victor, I do not recognize a party named 'calosI'
20:02:10 <Victor> zakim, carlosI is me
20:02:10 <Zakim> +Victor; got it
20:02:16 <Zakim> +??P10
20:02:25 <Zakim> +cory
20:02:30 <Zakim> + +1.202.408.aacc
20:02:35 <krzysztof_j> zakim, [IPcaller] is me
20:02:35 <Zakim> +krzysztof_j; got it
20:02:48 <Holger> zakim, who's on the phone?
20:02:48 <Zakim> On the phone I see Holger, +1.831.775.aaaa, klanz, krp, krzysztof_j, michael, Victor, ??P6, ??P10, cory, +1.202.408.aacc
20:03:00 <Arthur> +??P6 is me
20:03:17 <ocorcho> zakim, who's on the phone
20:03:17 <Zakim> I don't understand 'who's on the phone', ocorcho
20:03:19 <Zakim> +??P14
20:03:27 <ocorcho> zakim, who's on the phone?
20:03:27 <Zakim> On the phone I see Holger, +1.831.775.aaaa, klanz, krp, krzysztof_j, michael, Victor, ??P6, ??P10, cory, +1.202.408.aacc, ??P14
20:04:23 <Luis> Luis has joined #ssn
20:04:43 <rgarcia> rgarcia has joined #ssn
20:04:47 <Zakim> +??P15
20:04:50 <Zakim> + +34.98.439.aadd
20:05:23 <Rodrigo> Zakim, 34.98.439.aadd is me
20:05:23 <Zakim> sorry, Rodrigo, I do not recognize a party named '34.98.439.aadd'
20:05:25 <Holger> Topic: CSIRO / SSN Ontology
20:05:29 <Rodrigo> Zakim, +34.98.439.aadd is me
20:05:29 <Zakim> +Rodrigo; got it
20:05:58 <Arthur> zakim, +??P6 is me
20:05:58 <Zakim> sorry, Arthur, I do not recognize a party named '+??P6'
20:06:23 <Arthur> zakim, ??P6 is me
20:06:23 <Zakim> +Arthur; got it
20:07:05 <rgarcia> zakim, who's on the phone?
20:07:05 <Zakim> On the phone I see Holger, +1.831.775.aaaa, klanz, krp, krzysztof_j, michael, Victor, Arthur, ??P10, cory, +1.202.408.aacc, ??P14, ??P15, Rodrigo
20:07:14 <Holger> zakim, who is making noise?
20:07:21 <rgarcia> zakim, mute
20:07:21 <Zakim> I don't understand 'mute', rgarcia
20:07:24 <Zakim> Holger, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: klanz (26%), michael (84%), ??P10 (9%), ??P14 (16%), ??P15 (9%)
20:07:45 <rgarcia> zakim, mute me
20:07:45 <Zakim> sorry, rgarcia, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you
20:08:21 <rgarcia> zakim, ??P15 is me
20:08:21 <Zakim> +rgarcia; got it
20:08:30 <rgarcia> zakim, mute me
20:08:30 <Zakim> rgarcia should now be muted
20:09:17 <Holger> zakim, who is making noise?
20:09:23 <jgraybea> @holger
20:09:29 <Zakim> Holger, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: +1.831.775.aaaa (4%), klanz (39%), michael (46%), ??P10 (50%)
20:10:32 <ocorcho> zakim, who's on the call?
20:10:32 <Zakim> On the phone I see Holger, +1.831.775.aaaa, klanz, krp, krzysztof_j, michael, Victor, Arthur, ??P10, cory, +1.202.408.aacc, ??P14, rgarcia (muted), Rodrigo
20:10:44 <ocorcho> zakim, ??P10 is me
20:10:44 <Zakim> +ocorcho; got it
20:10:55 <jgraybea> I think the background noise came on with Danh
20:11:09 <ocorcho> zakim, mute me
20:11:09 <Zakim> ocorcho should now be muted
20:11:29 <Holger> zakim, who is making noise?
20:11:40 <Zakim> Holger, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: +1.831.775.aaaa (49%), klanz (34%), michael (94%)
20:11:47 <krp> Perhaps anyone who's not speaking could mute themselves, either on their handset or through zakim? (please!)
20:12:45 <Holger> Topic: OntoSensor
20:12:53 <Zakim> -??P14
20:13:11 <krzysztof_j> zakim, mute me
20:13:11 <Zakim> krzysztof_j should now be muted
20:14:14 <Zakim> +??P14
20:14:26 <rgarcia> zakim, ??P14 is me
20:14:26 <Zakim> +rgarcia; got it
20:14:42 <rgarcia> zakim, mute me
20:14:42 <Zakim> rgarcia was already muted, rgarcia
20:15:33 <michael> I can load onto sensor in Protege3.3.1, but the sumo import doesn't work.
20:16:17 <ocorcho> I think that the problem is that it is using old OWL syntax
20:16:24 <ocorcho> the one that was candidate recommendation in 2003
20:16:37 <ocorcho> at least I see rdfs:subClassOf descriptions in the text file
20:19:36 <Holger> Topic: SWAMO
20:23:45 <rgarcia> zakim, unmute me
20:23:45 <Zakim> rgarcia should no longer be muted
20:24:03 <Holger> Topic: MCRLab SUMO
20:24:27 <ocorcho> rgarcia is working with me at UPM
20:29:32 <rgarcia> zakim, mute me
20:29:32 <Zakim> rgarcia should now be muted
20:29:35 <Holger> Topic: MMI Device Ontology
20:33:11 <Holger> Topic: SensorML Processes
20:34:00 <ocorcho> I think that on this specific type of model we could also take a look at things like SUMO. Probably they many of these things defined. Just a thought
20:35:48 <Holger> Topic: CESN\
20:38:34 <ocorcho> is it true that a sensor can only measure one property? Isn't that a very restricted view?
20:39:10 <jgraybea> it is typically in the vocabulary of the definer (some think of sensor at transducer level)
20:39:31 <ocorcho> ok
20:40:02 <Holger> Topic: OOSTethys
20:44:10 <ocorcho> zakim, unmute me
20:44:10 <Zakim> ocorcho should no longer be muted
20:44:20 <Holger> Topic: WISNO
20:46:50 <ocorcho> zakim, mute me
20:46:50 <Zakim> ocorcho should now be muted
20:46:53 <Holger> Topic: A3ME ontology
20:47:49 <Holger> zakim, mute me
20:47:49 <Zakim> Holger should now be muted
20:48:37 <Holger> zakim, unmute me
20:48:37 <Zakim> Holger should no longer be muted
20:49:30 <krzysztof_j> zakim, unmute me
20:49:30 <Zakim> krzysztof_j should no longer be muted
20:50:53 <Holger> Topic: Stimuli-centered ontology
20:56:46 <Holger> Topic: General discussion
21:01:37 <Zakim> -ocorcho
21:02:12 <kerry> kerry has joined #ssn
21:02:18 <krzysztof_j> +q
21:02:24 <kerry> +q
21:03:29 <ocorcho> I am trying to access the conference call again and the system tells me that it is restricted
21:03:35 <ocorcho> is that for everybody?
21:04:03 <kerry> could mean we already have 15 people
21:04:20 <Holger> the hour has passed...
21:04:28 <krp> +q
21:04:34 <kerry> i am listening, but maybe cant be heard
21:04:38 <krzysztof_j> -q
21:04:45 <ocorcho> ok. I will be looking for minutes.. Sorry that I am missing this part where I wanted to contribute
21:04:49 <ocorcho> as well
21:04:51 <Luis> +q
21:04:59 <kerry> i have reviewd liu 2005 before
21:05:32 <jgraybea> Krzysztof suggests that we consider what we want to do before identifying preferred starting point
21:05:35 <michael> Oscar - write an email to the list and we'll make sure the input is included
21:05:50 <kerry> zakim, unmute me
21:05:50 <Zakim> sorry, kerry, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you
21:06:25 <Holger> zakim, who's on the phone?
21:06:25 <Zakim> On the phone I see Holger, +1.831.775.aaaa, klanz, krp, krzysztof_j, michael, Victor, Arthur, cory, +1.202.408.aacc, rgarcia (muted), Rodrigo, rgarcia.a
21:06:43 <jgraybea> 775.aaaa is graybeal
21:07:24 <kerry> zakim, 408.aacc is me
21:07:24 <Zakim> sorry, kerry, I do not recognize a party named '408.aacc'
21:07:55 <kerry> zakim, +1.202.408.aacc is me
21:07:55 <Zakim> +kerry; got it
21:08:06 <kerry> zakim, unmute kerry
21:08:06 <Zakim> kerry was not muted, kerry
21:08:31 <kerry> no..
21:08:43 <kerry> not working for me today
21:08:45 <michael> +q
21:08:54 <kerry>  i have reviewd liu 2005 before
21:09:03 <krzysztof_j> zakim, mute me
21:09:03 <Zakim> krzysztof_j should now be muted
21:09:11 <kerry> can provideshort summary
21:10:25 <kerry> q
21:10:28 <kerry> -q
21:10:40 <krp> -q
21:10:47 <Holger> ack Luis
21:10:53 <Holger> ack michael
21:12:12 <jgraybea> it appears property adoption would be straightforward in many cases, but more fundamental structural issues may be harder to address
21:13:15 <Arthur> +q
21:13:19 <krp> +q
21:13:44 <jgraybea> structural issues could include composition, observations, real time information, sensors as stimulus
21:14:16 <krzysztof_j> ack
21:14:27 <jgraybea> suggestion of core specification widely usable, and expanded version with more extensive characteristics
21:14:48 <Holger> ack Arthur
21:14:54 <Holger> ack krp
21:16:04 <michael> +q
21:16:18 <jgraybea> krp: make sure we can ensure positioning of data from the sensors, and so forth
21:16:23 <Holger> ack michael
21:16:52 <jgraybea> michael: in some sense data/observations and sensors should be equally first class
21:17:52 <krzysztof_j> we do
21:17:53 <cory> +q
21:17:56 <cory> we do too
21:18:04 <Danh_DERI> we do too
21:18:10 <Luis> +q
21:18:21 <Holger> ack cory
21:18:38 <Danh_DERI> +q
21:18:43 <Holger> ack Luis
21:18:57 <krzysztof_j> ack
21:19:33 <jgraybea> observations are of critical interest but (as noted above) many ontologies of them exist (SONET has list)
21:20:18 <jgraybea> SWE trying to abstract common observation model
21:20:20 <Holger> ack Danh_DERI
21:23:15 <kerry> +1
21:23:52 <krzysztof_j> we can start working on the ensor ontology but should keep the observation part in mind
21:23:54 <jgraybea> the question is whether we could start with CSIRO and build on to that with other content
21:24:11 <michael> I think that sounds sensible.
21:24:16 <Holger> +1
21:24:16 <krzysztof_j> and connect/align the ontologies later
21:24:29 <krp> Yes, sounds sensible.
21:25:28 <Zakim> -klanz
21:25:48 <Holger> Action: all_presenters to edit http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/ssn/wiki/SSN_Ontologies_Attributes for their presented ontology(ies)
21:25:59 <jgraybea> yes, I suggest we start with that but treat any 'conflicts' with the other ontologies as possible structure issues (add them to the issues list)
21:26:09 <Danh_DERI> sorry, I was kicked out
21:26:11 <Holger> Action: Michael and John to put detailed minutes on the wiki
21:28:43 <kerry> bye, I have to go now.  Neither the phone nor the IRC worked properly for me today...good content if only i had heard it. thanks
21:29:00 <Zakim> -rgarcia
21:29:22 <Zakim> -Victor
21:29:25 <krzysztof_j> zakim, bye
21:29:25 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees were Holger, +1.831.775.aaaa, +1.585.919.aabb, krp, michael, Victor, cory, krzysztof_j, Rodrigo, Arthur, rgarcia, ocorcho, kerry
21:29:25 <Zakim> Zakim has left #ssn
21:29:33 <krzysztof_j> bye
21:29:36 <Luis> bye
21:29:41 <rgarcia> rgarcia has left #ssn
21:29:45 <Holger> rrsagent, make log public 
21:29:53 <Holger> rrsagent, draft minutes 
21:29:53 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/07/01-ssn-minutes.html Holger
21:30:09 <Arthur> Arthur has left #ssn
21:30:14 <Holger> rrsagent, bye 
21:30:14 <RRSAgent> I see 2 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2009/07/01-ssn-actions.rdf :
21:30:14 <RRSAgent> ACTION: all_presenters to edit http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/ssn/wiki/SSN_Ontologies_Attributes for their presented ontology(ies) [1]
21:30:14 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/07/01-ssn-irc#T21-25-48
21:30:14 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Michael and John to put detailed minutes on the wiki [2]
21:30:14 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/07/01-ssn-irc#T21-26-11