12:55:05 RRSAgent has joined #egov 12:55:05 logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/06/24-egov-irc 12:55:34 I'm going to have to join the meeting a little late... An elected official needs something done ASAP. 12:56:37 john has joined #egov 12:57:08 t's ok, adam 12:58:06 T&S_EGOV()9:00AM has now started 12:58:14 +john 12:58:19 trackbot, start telcon 12:58:21 RRSAgent, make logs public 12:58:23 Zakim, this will be EGOV 12:58:23 ok, trackbot, I see T&S_EGOV()9:00AM already started 12:58:24 Meeting: eGovernment Interest Group Teleconference 12:58:24 Date: 24 June 2009 12:58:47 +Josema 12:58:52 chair: john, kevin 12:59:12 +kevin 12:59:40 kevin has joined #egov 12:59:45 zakim, who's here? 12:59:45 On the phone I see john, Josema, kevin 12:59:46 On IRC I see kevin, john, RRSAgent, Daniel_Bennett, Zakim, aharvey, josema, trackbot 12:59:53 Rachel has joined #egov 13:00:05 davemc has joined #egov 13:00:08 -Josema 13:00:24 zakim, code? 13:00:24 the conference code is 3468 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), josema 13:01:15 +Rachel 13:01:29 + +1.202.564.aaaa 13:01:42 + +1.202.449.aabb 13:01:57 + +1.202.236.aacc 13:02:01 aabb is Daniel 13:02:01 dmcallis has joined #egov 13:02:25 zakim, aabb is Daniel 13:02:25 +Daniel; got it 13:02:29 +??P26 13:02:36 zakim, Daniel is Daniel_Bennett 13:02:36 +Daniel_Bennett; got it 13:03:23 +Josema 13:04:18 its very quiet 13:04:19 zakim, who's here? 13:04:19 On the phone I see john, Josema, kevin, Rachel, +1.202.564.aaaa, Daniel_Bennett, +1.202.236.aacc, ??P26 13:04:25 On IRC I see dmcallis, Rachel, kevin, john, RRSAgent, Daniel_Bennett, Zakim, aharvey, josema, trackbot 13:04:46 can aaaa, aacc and P26 make themselves known, please? 13:05:04 Owen has joined #egov 13:05:04 + +1.216.443.aadd 13:05:06 I think I'm P26 13:05:16 zakim, P26 is probably dmcallis 13:05:16 sorry, josema, I do not understand your question 13:05:19 I just jumped on the call 13:05:42 zakim, ??P26 is probably dmcallis 13:05:42 +dmcallis?; got it 13:05:42 having some challenging internet problems this morning 13:06:08 zakim, who's here? 13:06:08 On the phone I see john, Josema, kevin, Rachel, +1.202.564.aaaa, Daniel_Bennett, +1.202.236.aacc, dmcallis?, +1.216.443.aadd 13:06:10 On IRC I see Owen, dmcallis, Rachel, kevin, john, RRSAgent, Daniel_Bennett, Zakim, aharvey, josema, trackbot 13:06:28 still three unknown people ? 13:06:53 I'm aadd 13:07:03 zakim, aadd is aharvey 13:07:03 +aharvey; got it 13:07:10 only two to go! 13:07:21 kevin, john, I think we should try to identify the other two and go ahead 13:07:22 this is eating into the 20min for the "whats going on" agenda item 13:07:54 yes, we can hear you 13:07:55 zakim, take up next agendum 13:07:55 agendum 1. "Agenda adjustments" taken up [from josema] 13:08:20 yes 13:08:28 scribe: rachel 13:08:32 just waiting for call to start... 13:08:33 no adjustments from me 13:08:34 agenda? 13:08:36 agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-egov-ig/2009Jun/0064 13:08:53 no adjustments to agenda 13:08:55 :-) with the agenda 13:08:58 [all happy with agenda] 13:09:04 zakim, take up next agendum 13:09:04 agendum 2. "What's going on (events and the like)" taken up [from josema] 13:09:19 Kevin made a presentation to Federal CIO Committee 13:09:36 s/Kevin/Kevin: 13:09:39 +??P35 13:09:43 Lots going on w/data.gov and open government initiative 13:10:41 Presented Group Note, was asked if NIST is involved in our work. 13:11:08 s/Lots/...lots 13:11:13 s/Presented/...presented 13:11:14 Some people from NIST attended F2F but no permanent members on IG. 13:11:19 s/Some/...some 13:12:13 we need to make sure we keep on top of everything happening in govt 13:12:24 lots of discussion related to metadata and public data catalog 13:12:24 s/we/...we 13:12:30 s/lots/...lots 13:13:36 ...CIO Council struggling with how to make data discoverable 13:14:28 zakim, who's here? 13:14:28 On the phone I see john, Josema, kevin, Rachel, +1.202.564.aaaa, Daniel_Bennett, +1.202.236.aacc, dmcallis?, aharvey, ??P35 13:14:30 On IRC I see Owen, dmcallis, Rachel, kevin, john, RRSAgent, Daniel_Bennett, Zakim, aharvey, josema, trackbot 13:15:00 ...Kevin meeting w/George Thomas to follow up (George is on the call today) 13:15:13 hey george, good to hear you! 13:15:41 ...struggling with standardization for linked data 13:15:43 we have that too in the UK 13:17:04 ...Brand attended semantic web meeting 13:17:27 [also on the call: BrandN and GeorgeT, and I guess Owen, those should be the three unidentified so far] 13:17:36 ...provided some examples of semantic web best practices 13:17:41 q+ 13:17:53 ...partnering with NIST on interoperability in cloud computing 13:18:05 s/...struggling/George: struggling 13:18:17 s/...Brand/Brand: 13:20:02 ...planning a semantic web workshop set for September hosted by FDIC 13:21:36 Kevin: update on meeting w/Tim O'Reilly and Kundra, Chopra 13:22:20 ...need to present information in a way that managers can understand 13:22:22 q? 13:22:28 ...Vivek working on data dashboard 13:22:44 ocr has joined #egov 13:23:02 ...we have technical info documented, just need to translate to show business value 13:23:33 I guess semantic web workshop above hosted by FDIC is the XBRL one 13:23:48 ack jo 13:23:49 ...will follow up with additional action items for year 2 13:23:54 q? 13:24:01 + +34.98.439.aaee 13:24:07 zakim, aaee is ocr 13:24:07 +ocr; got it 13:24:10 anne has joined #egov 13:25:32 http://eu.wiley.com/WileyCDA/WileyTitle/productCd-047041801X.html 13:25:59 John: recommends this book 13:26:30 ...good "basics" info 13:27:08 ...France govt meeting w/UK to discuss creating their own "data.gov" 13:27:22 +[LC] 13:27:37 zakim, [LC] is probably anne 13:27:37 +anne?; got it 13:27:44 yes anne is here. 13:27:48 hi anne 13:27:50 hi 13:28:35 ...good strategy for group is to point out good work by colleagues around the world 13:29:02 ...help each of us build a case within our own communities, if we can demonstrate success by others 13:29:06 agenda? 13:29:40 everyone ready to move on? 13:30:13 ->http://personaldemocracy.com/pdf-conference/personal-democracy-forum-conference PdF 13:30:38 Daniel: going to PdF 13:31:02 Kevin: Has a discount code if anyone else wants to register, let him know 13:31:10 zakim, take up next agendum 13:31:10 agendum 3. "eGov/Comm Planning Calls and Coordination" taken up [from josema] 13:31:46 For the record, if not already mentioned, Tim Berners Lee was chosen by PM to lead open gov data in UK 13:31:48 http://www.number10.gov.uk/Page19579 13:32:22 John:Chairs have been meeting with W3C folks to coordinate marketing for our Group 13:33:02 that was me on a _real_ phone, no way to get decent sound today from here :( 13:33:07 Kevin: Looking for opportunities to market our efforts, raise awareness about our work 13:33:38 ...avoid recreating the wheel, if others know what we're doing, they can join us 13:34:03 ...integrate our work into larger eGov efforts 13:34:54 ...O'Reilly summit coming up this fall, 2 members submitted case studies 13:35:25 -Josema 13:35:51 ...they are still calling for Case Studies, but already actually have received more than they have time for 13:36:30 ...W3C Communications team helping us research ways to raise awareness of our Group's work 13:37:20 Daniel: Recommends creating a Use Case Library for data-related initiatives 13:37:35 ...to help governments standardize data 13:37:55 ...one single central place to find out what's being used, and where 13:38:00 + +34.98.439.aaff 13:38:42 Kevin: We do have a library of Use Cases - what to do with them now? 13:38:59 we also talked about a questionnaire - to try and benchmark who is where. Not sure of value of that. 13:39:25 Daniel: "wikipedia" of data from around the world 13:40:14 John: Unless we ensure we are producing quality outputs, we won't gain much traction. 13:40:34 ...Need to ensure we produce a coherent "package" 13:41:04 we also discussed about ETF, mentioned we expected ETF to tweak IG deliverables, still Comm to help us with media opportunities, outreach and the like 13:41:05 q? 13:41:12 ...need to produce a White Paper, Kevin is drafting 13:41:15 agenda? 13:41:16 zakim, take up next agendum 13:41:21 agendum 4. "Charter and Plan" taken up [from josema] 13:41:49 ->http://www.w3.org/2007/eGov/IG/wiki/Charter2 Draft Charter 2 13:41:56 rrsagent, pointer? 13:41:56 See http://www.w3.org/2009/06/24-egov-irc#T13-41-56 13:42:04 John: Kevin posted first draft of Year 2 Charter 13:42:07 rrsagent, draft minutes 13:42:07 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/06/24-egov-minutes.html josema 13:42:18 ...Timeframes very short! 13:42:55 ...Need to finalize ASAP, so we can submit before deadline in early July. 13:43:11 ...need to be very careful about specific deliverables - can we actually DO those things? 13:43:33 +1 to john's point about deliverables 13:43:55 I think we need to get this to W3M agenda on July, 15th... 22nd in the worst case scenario 13:44:42 Kevin: Draft he posted is just a "draft" - need feedback! 13:45:03 John: Are deliverables realistic? Do they add value? 13:45:07 my two concerns: actual deliverables and "visualization" TF 13:45:27 Owen: Who is volunteering to take the lead on deliverables? Nothing will happen w/o someone taking ownership 13:45:35 Kevin: Agree 13:45:54 +1 to Owen 13:46:02 q+ to _try_ talk about my OGD TF discussions 13:46:06 +1 Owen 13:46:10 ...that's why we need to increase participation - either by adding more members or getting current members more active 13:46:59 ...our Group can serve as a bridge betweens lots of other initiatives 13:47:15 ...need to get people to commit to actually DOING things! 13:47:24 +1 Kevin's idea of creating liasons 13:47:28 q? 13:47:30 Owen: Who will be liaison to those other groups? 13:48:34 George: issues with RDFA or HTML5 causing concern 13:49:18 ack josema 13:49:18 josema, you wanted to _try_ talk about my OGD TF discussions 13:49:20 John: Wants to talk to the "html5 guys" 13:50:10 Jose: Working w/W3C communities 13:50:54 ...we can have mixed membership - collaborate with other groups to create "design patterns for Open Government Data" 13:51:17 ...each individual task force can have its own mailing list, to make communication easier 13:51:33 ...agrees w/John about html5 issues 13:51:58 ...govt already has many use cases around RDFa to illustrate the value 13:52:40 Kevin: html5 issue being talked about, perhaps we can raise these issues in a larger arena 13:53:05 q? 13:53:28 Daniel: We want to standardize...but lots of new exciting things always happening 13:53:39 I already communicated this to Mike Smith (HTML WG Team contact), will contact him again 13:53:51 ...our group can help everyone "get along" 13:53:52 just checking charter2 wording, checking this type of issue is in our scope 13:54:03 ACTION: josema to try get RDFa Gov use cases on TPAC agenda 13:54:03 Created ACTION-71 - Try get RDFa Gov use cases on TPAC agenda [on José Manuel Alonso - due 2009-07-01]. 13:54:36 Kevin: is there a business need that conflicts w/RDFa? 13:55:14 How do we view competing technologies in metadata, (like XMP) and the wide use of such? 13:55:20 ...not sure our group is doing all we should 13:55:56 to make my point clearer: I believe OGD is a superset of Linked Government Data, i.e. Linked Data will be a significant part of it but we'll have non-LD use cases 13:55:59 ...this year, there are lots of good opportunities for our Group to make a positive impact 13:56:26 +1 on josema, RDFa and OGD 13:56:27 q+ 13:57:06 Daniel: important to comply with ONE standard 13:57:56 Kevin: one of our missions is to partner with others, aggregate best solutions 13:58:00 s/ONE/a 13:58:11 Like Kevin's policy of aggregator and not initiator. 13:58:15 -anne? 13:58:45 ...use cases can demonstrate value 13:59:07 ...what new technologies are coming out that are going to evolve into standards? 13:59:07 rrsagent, draft minutes 13:59:07 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/06/24-egov-minutes.html josema 13:59:49 John: This group is a place where people from MANY governments can get together and discuss common problems 13:59:52 +1 to john 13:59:56 ...share best practices 14:00:00 ...help each other 14:00:31 ...eGov IG role is to capture "government" issues and communicate w/those outside of government 14:00:49 ...no other W3C group has this same perpective 14:01:38 q? 14:01:41 ack jo 14:01:44 ...regarding Charter 2 - where do we go now? 14:02:28 ...do we have the right scope, how widely should we cover the web development area? 14:02:44 ...do we want to stay with a broad perspective, or narrow our scope? 14:03:11 wriggle room? 14:03:12 - +1.202.236.aacc 14:03:17 Kevin: important to leave some room to adjust as we go, since things change so quickly 14:03:59 ...some issues include accessibility, interoperability 14:04:15 we have plenty to choose from: http://beta.w3.org/Consortium/siteindex#sitemap (but even that may not be enough wrt visualization) 14:04:38 ...try not to get bogged down, how best to serve the public? 14:04:49 maybe "Web Design and Applications" ? 14:05:11 ...sees 3 different broad areas (in addition to open govt data) 14:05:13 or "User Experience and Education" 14:05:29 like both suggestions 14:05:39 ...should focus on things that help governments deliver citizen-oriented services 14:05:56 adam, have you seen http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/owea/ ? 14:06:10 Daniel: looking at "open data" versus "development" - interesting division 14:06:27 ...division between those is not always clear 14:06:31 No, thanks for the link Jose! 14:06:45 + +1.202.236.aagg 14:06:51 all, see especially http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/owea/charter-20090617.html#coordination 14:07:04 s/especially/namely 14:07:34 ...these 2 task forces need to collaborate where issues merge 14:07:56 John: see link posted by Jose 14:08:26 I'm "guilty" of IG being listed there, forgot to mention it, sorry! 14:08:32 ...w3c education & outreach working group 14:09:09 ...practical ideas for helping govt make the best use of the web 14:09:25 s/education & outreach working group/Open Web Education Alliance Incubator Group 14:09:39 Kevin: need to prioritize what is most important now 14:09:47 zakim, list attendees 14:09:47 As of this point the attendees have been john, Josema, kevin, Rachel, +1.202.564.aaaa, +1.202.449.aabb, +1.202.236.aacc, Daniel_Bennett, +1.216.443.aadd, dmcallis?, aharvey, 14:09:50 ... +34.98.439.aaee, ocr, anne?, +34.98.439.aaff, +1.202.236.aagg 14:10:00 rrsagent, draft minutes 14:10:00 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/06/24-egov-minutes.html josema 14:10:11 ...long-term data management and other areas are not our top priority right now 14:10:34 ...what is the most appropriate thing for our group to focus on now? 14:10:39 so we do in fact mead "web design and applications"? (to borrow josema's phrase) 14:10:54 s/mead/mean 14:11:27 q+ to ask about deliverables 14:11:34 ack josema 14:11:34 josema, you wanted to ask about deliverables 14:12:01 Jose: What are our potential deliverables for these task forces? 14:12:38 ...figure out what we want to accomplish FIRST, then decide on the framework to make it happen 14:13:20 Kevin: one thing we want is to publish briefing documents more frequently 14:13:25 so, briefs, memos etc 14:13:37 ...what issues do we want to address in those briefs? 14:13:46 I was thinking of brainstorming about _real_ examples, can someone give me one? 14:13:56 is data.gov.* memo one? 14:14:18 that style of communication 14:14:29 Daniel: promoting best practices is a positive goal 14:14:38 broad brush, picking uo gov specific context 14:14:47 ok, I tend to think we all agree that should be the style 14:14:49 s/uo/up 14:15:08 ...are we informing best practices in our work products? 14:15:13 then we need to focus _very_ well Web D* TF, what's in, what's not 14:15:32 topic areas - mobile? accessibility? 14:15:38 e.g. should be Flash part of that TF? 14:15:47 ...we can give governments the tools to improve their web content/pages 14:16:03 Kevin: What would issue briefs contain? 14:16:27 I would focus on W3C tech - we're not a conduit to adobe / macromedia for flash right? 14:16:37 ...consistency in Group deliverables is important 14:16:55 do you remember the discussion about "Web content" ? ;) 14:17:14 I propose: HTML, CSS, Scripting, Ajax, Accessibility, Mobile Web, i18n 14:17:53 rachel: we are short on time, what's the goal for today? 14:18:01 ... wrt the Charter? 14:18:01 We need to wrap up soon! 14:18:06 +1 14:18:23 Kevin: everyone - you have until Sunday to comment on Year 2 Charter 14:18:36 ...Chairs will finalize on their call next Wednesday 14:19:02 John: Define deliverables, outline exact topics we want to tackle 14:19:20 are, thanks 14:19:43 maybe more: what about SVG and Widgets? 14:19:59 Kevin: will send out list of w3c groups, need to identify those with which we need to collaborate 14:19:59 Privacy? Math?... list goes on 14:20:01 my vote, widgets yes, svg no 14:20:07 ok 14:20:41 I'm trying to take into account what Kevin mentioned about not "too restrictive" 14:20:46 are you looking for volunteers at this point? 14:20:56 s/are/Rachel: are 14:21:04 Kevin: First let's make sure we have the Charter done, then we can get volunteers. 14:21:43 John: Although we need to make sure that the elements in the Charter are within the purview and interests of Group members, so we can get volunteers to tackle these issues. 14:21:52 a11y, i18n, HTML, CSS, ECMA, Cool URLs, CSS Media formats including print and mobile, Citations/Anchors/XPointers 14:22:30 Kevin: still looking for more members 14:22:44 ...we do have good folks on the group now, but can always use more help! 14:22:52 daniel, I would put Cool URLs, Citations/Anchors/XPointers on OGD TF, concentrate here more on the "Webapp/visualization" aspect 14:22:53 I'm not in favour of wishful thinking in the charter (ambition, but also realism) 14:23:09 After the new charter, does a F2F make sense? Easier to involve new members with a concrete meeting. 14:23:15 ...don't want to set expectations without being able to deliver on them. 14:23:44 tip: read Charter 1 again, concrete, but not much, so we had room 14:24:03 John: can we assume that we structure Charter 2 from the baseline of where we are today 14:24:29 Kevin: impressed with level of engagement on the listserv this past week 14:24:44 I again regret to have missed previous call :( 14:24:57 agenda? 14:25:02 John: Comments on Charter 2 due Sunday. Issues resolved, Charter finalized next week. 14:25:05 Jose, we miss your actual voice on this one 14:25:20 scribe: josema 14:25:37 Jose agree with Daniel keep expecting to hear your voice 14:25:53 daniel, see draft, I added many comments in there! 14:26:05 ok 14:26:55 rachel: ETF to bridge policy/technology gap 14:27:12 ... several volunteers contacted me already 14:27:18 zakim, take up next agendum 14:27:18 agendum 5. "Editorial Task Force" taken up [from josema] 14:27:24 ... also sent draft proposal to listserv 14:27:24 I read it. 14:27:30 I liked it :) 14:27:47 I read it... haven't had time to digest or respond 14:27:50 ... anybody read it? 14:28:02 john: talked about this with Comm 14:28:20 ... Comm very interested in learning what exactly ETF would do 14:28:39 ... we mentioned ETF will help us reach those we _need_ to reach as a group 14:28:45 kevin: strongly agree 14:29:01 owen: ?? semantic web for dummies book 14:29:37 we can resolve this as our way of working, right? 14:30:32 josema: please add ETF to draft charter 14:30:36 rachel: will do 14:30:53 Brand mentioned the semantic web for dummies book. 14:31:08 daniel: [scribe missed point] 14:31:41 daniel asked if a mention of ETF should be added to other groups, so it is clear that deliverables go thru ETF before publication 14:31:46 kevin: ?? something like that would be awesome 14:31:53 http://www.amazon.com/Semantic-Web-Dummies-Computer-Tech/dp/0470396792 14:31:54 yes, thanks Rachel 14:32:24 no objection 14:32:28 john: anybody objects to this way of working? 14:32:30 - +1.202.236.aagg 14:33:03 RESOLVED: deliverables to go to ETF before publication 14:33:13 agenda? 14:33:23 [ADJOURNED] 14:33:39 thanks, all 14:33:45 -john 14:33:50 -kevin 14:34:06 -dmcallis? 14:34:42 s/[ADJOURNED]/[ADJOURNED - ETF team stays]/ 14:34:47 -- ETF -- 14:35:16 rachel: daniel, I like your idea of adding ETF mention to other groups 14:35:30 ... in terms of editing work, we mentioned editing window of 2 weeks 14:36:13 ... my plan is to ask people to volunteer depending on topic 14:36:42 Karen has joined #egov 14:37:10 daniel: we can have exceptions, also keep media in mind 14:37:16 differentiate between "press" pieces and documents "for publication" 14:41:53 -ocr 14:42:47 [some discussion about how the relationship between Comm and ETF should work] 14:43:07 RAchel: ETF happy to review and help, defer to jose how it should work 14:43:34 s/RAchel/Rachel 14:44:41 josema: I'll try to have you joining an eGov/Comm call to discuss about it 14:45:07 ... we are all in same boat and with same goal, very easy to understand each other 14:45:19 [scribe missed OWen's q] 14:45:44 [scribe missed adam's, too] 14:46:10 My point was that we can test out ETF procedures and coordination on the current note, since it's revision isn't a priority 14:46:57 Daniel: publish our "standards" for writing style, etc. 14:47:03 [daniel on plain language, style and make people aware of this to ease work of ETF ?] 14:47:14 s/ease/facilitate 14:48:29 rachel: next steps, comments on Charter 2 are due on Sunday 14:48:35 ... suggestions, please use wiki 14:48:54 ... also white paper, we should have that fairly soon 14:48:58 have people giving deliverable to ETF to note who the authors are to allow ETF to contact authors 14:48:59 ... should be our first deliverable 14:49:24 ... we could even divide up in pieces to work in parallel 14:49:27 adam: sounds good 14:49:49 rachel: I want to thank you all again for volunteering 14:49:55 ... this is a passion of mine 14:50:08 ... happy to have you joining me for this 14:50:19 we think you're great too Rachel. 14:50:22 ... really appreciate it, even before starting 14:50:44 Strunk and White 14:50:48 rachel: daniel, I'll try to put together those "standards" we'll use 14:51:04 ... if any of you are interested in reworking any piece of the Note just tell me 14:51:06 MLA? 14:51:19 ... let's communicate by email 14:53:25 - +1.202.564.aaaa 14:53:28 -Rachel 14:53:29 -josema 14:53:38