13:01:14 RRSAgent has joined #swxg 13:01:14 logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/06/17-swxg-irc 13:01:24 zakim, mute me 13:01:24 sorry, tinkster, I don't know what conference this is 13:01:29 i didnt see my self join when i called in 13:01:29 cperey has joined #swxg 13:01:32 Zakim, this is SWXG 13:01:32 ok, tpa; that matches INC_SWXG()9:00AM 13:01:33 zakim, this is swxg 13:01:33 tinkster, this was already INC_SWXG()9:00AM 13:01:34 ok, tinkster; that matches INC_SWXG()9:00AM 13:01:39 +??P19 13:01:40 where are the calling in messages? 13:01:41 zakim, mute me 13:01:41 tinkster should now be muted 13:01:45 Zakim, who's here? 13:01:46 On the phone I see +1.314.683.aaaa, DKA, pchampin, tpa, +39.011.228.aabb, ??P15, MIT531, tinkster (muted), +1.510.931.aacc, ??P19 13:01:53 On IRC I see cperey, RRSAgent, Zakim, mattroweshow, PhilA, jsalvachua, oshani, claudio, tpa, AlexKorth, pchampin, rreck, melvster, yuk, caribou, bblfish, mischat, tinkster, karl, 13:01:58 ... trackbot, Cloud, dom 13:02:00 +Phil_Archer 13:02:00 zakim, ??P19 is me 13:02:06 +AlexKorth; got it 13:02:21 agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-socialweb/2009May/0127.html 13:02:28 + +4222aadd 13:02:33 hello 13:02:45 +??P24 13:02:50 +cperey 13:03:08 -??P24 13:03:27 danbri has sent regrets and neither of our other chairs seem to have turned up yet. 13:03:42 i saw harry online earlier 13:03:44 + +03491549aaee 13:03:45 regrets+ Danbri 13:03:59 zakim, aaee is me 13:03:59 +jsalvachua; got it 13:04:06 zakim, mute me 13:04:06 jsalvachua should now be muted 13:04:09 zakim, who is on the phone 13:04:09 I don't understand 'who is on the phone', AlexKorth 13:04:18 Chair: Harry_Halpin 13:04:31 zakim, who is here 13:04:31 AlexKorth, you need to end that query with '?' 13:04:41 zakim, who is here? 13:04:41 On the phone I see +1.314.683.aaaa, DKA, pchampin, tpa, +39.011.228.aabb, ??P15, oshani (muted), tinkster (muted), +1.510.931.aacc, AlexKorth, Phil_Archer, +4222aadd, cperey, 13:04:44 ... jsalvachua (muted) 13:04:45 On IRC I see cperey, RRSAgent, Zakim, mattroweshow, PhilA, jsalvachua, oshani, claudio, tpa, AlexKorth, pchampin, rreck, melvster, yuk, caribou, bblfish, mischat, tinkster, karl, 13:04:48 ... trackbot, Cloud, dom 13:05:03 + +0797094aaff 13:05:20 its a he 13:05:24 zakim, mute me 13:05:24 cperey should now be muted 13:05:26 +??P28 13:05:47 +yuk 13:06:07 scribe: PhilA 13:06:13 scribeNick:PhilA 13:06:24 claudiov has joined #swxg 13:06:54 Zakim, +39.011.228.aabb is me 13:06:55 +claudiov; got it 13:07:26 pchampin, indeed :) 13:07:52 Zakim, please load agenda from http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/weekly-agenda.rdf 13:07:52 I don't understand you, tinkster 13:08:16 Zakim, read agenda from http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/weekly-agenda.rdf 13:08:16 working on it, tinkster 13:08:18 done reading agenda, tinkster 13:08:28 Zakim, what's on the agenda? 13:08:30 I see nothing on the agenda 13:08:32 hajons has joined #swxg 13:08:37 yup, still not working 13:08:56 DKA has joined #swxg 13:09:09 zakim, who's here? 13:09:09 On the phone I see +1.314.683.aaaa, DKA, pchampin, tpa, claudiov, ??P15, oshani (muted), tinkster (muted), +1.510.931.aacc, AlexKorth, Phil_Archer, +4222aadd, cperey (muted), 13:09:12 ... jsalvachua (muted), +0797094aaff, ??P28 13:09:13 On IRC I see DKA, hajons, claudiov, cperey, RRSAgent, Zakim, mattroweshow, PhilA, jsalvachua, oshani, tpa, AlexKorth, pchampin, rreck, melvster, yuk, caribou, bblfish, mischat, 13:09:15 ... tinkster, karl, trackbot, Cloud, dom 13:09:34 fuming has joined #swxg 13:09:38 + +46.1.08.01.aagg 13:10:04 +Carine 13:10:24 Context: DKA in an airport lounge, Harry should be joining soon 13:10:33 agenda+ Convene SWXG WG meeting of 2009-06-17T13:00-15:00Z 13:10:35 TOPIC:Discussion on Context 13:10:39 DKA: Wasnt to jump staright in to the discussion on context 13:10:41 agenda+ Discussion on Context 13:10:50 agenda+ General Organization and Task Forces 13:10:59 agenda+ Invited Guests 13:11:01 DKA: Claudio - you and I have been most vociferous on this topic 13:11:07 agenda+ Creating User Stories on the Wiki 13:11:09 ... so can we kick off this privacy nad context TF 13:11:13 agenda+ Social Network Matrix 13:11:20 ... so are you able to take a leadership role? 13:11:38 MacTed has joined #swxg 13:11:48 Claudio: In principle it would be nice 13:11:56 +OpenLink_Software 13:11:57 .. but like everyone, I have several engagements 13:12:18 Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily MacTed 13:12:20 +MacTed; got it 13:12:29 ... but it's difficult to understand how the TF relates to the rest of the group. If TI has some goals that it thinks are crucial? 13:12:46 ... I need to process my first proposal and see what the discussion leads to 13:12:55 DKA: You've falled into my trap :-) 13:13:02 s/falled/fallen/ 13:13:18 DKA: Can you take your original proposal; and subsequent discussion and formulate that as a TF charter? 13:13:19 s/TI has/TF has/ 13:14:11 DKA: The XG needs to agree on the context charter so that the TF's work can be defined 13:14:12 s/TF has/Telecom Italia has/ 13:14:39 Claudio: Again, nothing against creating that document but it would be useful to get some more comments 13:15:07 FabGandon has joined #swxg 13:15:10 ... I want to be usre that we're progressing in a way that makes sense 13:15:15 ... (to the group) 13:15:47 also there is the question of whether the Task Force will cover privacy 13:15:48 ... is it in scope to specify APIs for instance? Are we to create a vocabulary? Is it reasonable to achive those goals? 13:15:49 perhaps we need examples of contexts, use cases make sense 13:16:04 DKA: Can you point us to an initial e-mail and thtead? 13:16:12 ... I think the group needs a summary to look at 13:16:13 Current deliverables look good and achievable to me. 13:16:27 Cl;audio: There's a pointer on the scoail web wiki page 13:16:29 is this is a Task Force for Context + Privacy? or is there Task Force for Context and another Task Force for Privacy/Security 13:16:43 Claudio: the link says sometehing like "this is an initial scope that the TF might do" 13:16:46 Claudio's scoping message - http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-socialweb/2009Jun/0020.html 13:16:50 danbri has joined #swxg 13:16:52 fuming has joined #swxg 13:17:26 DKA: SO my initial feedback would be that the soecification of APIs is probably out of scope but a selection of existing APIs would be in scope 13:17:29 what is context? It seems incredibly general. 13:17:38 bblfish+1 13:17:42 +FabGandon 13:17:43 bblfish+1 13:17:46 ... So that fits in with the ethos of an XG - not to develop new technologies - more how to use exsting tech 13:17:51 is it just another way to speak about named graphs? 13:17:59 DKA: But I definitely agree that a catalogue of different social contexts is useful 13:18:15 ... a voca and privacy model would then flow from that 13:18:26 s/voca and/vocab and/ 13:18:34 DKA: I just have a problem with the spec of an API 13:18:37 q? 13:19:01 Claudio: The only info I have on this is the term context. It may be huge and include a lot of things 13:19:10 +karl 13:19:17 ... then it's really related to some concept of an activity that a user may be performing at a given time 13:19:20 zakim, mute me 13:19:20 karl should now be muted 13:19:23 context is abstract, specialisations need to be defined 13:19:37 ... this is like an extended version of the presence info 13:19:48 bblfish, my definition of context is up-to-the-minute profile info - i.e., not foaf:based_near, but where is the person right now; what devices are they currently using; are they asleep, so not to be disturbed; what music are they listening to... 13:19:52 +??P33 13:19:56 zakim, ??P33 is danbri 13:19:56 +danbri; got it 13:20:00 Claudio: I can give more info about my context that might be useful to people I'm connected to 13:20:14 ah ok. Don't call me, I am asleep. 13:20:24 context could also include "I'm in a call 13:20:29 There was an ontology for what I am doing now 13:20:31 ... the user may be working, playing, travelling etc. 13:20:50 so context embodies the current status also 13:21:23 Claudio: we have a few use cases that may point to exploitation possibilitie4s 13:21:38 ... maybe something like 50% of your friends on a train, one walking, one shopping etc 13:21:52 ... these fit in with our definition of the term 'context' 13:22:07 totally useful but for me subdomain of privacy 13:22:25 ok, yes, makes sense 13:22:31 it would be easy to build a vocab like that 13:22:36 DKA: Thanks for that 13:22:44 Really good explanation of context 13:22:57 vocab could be similar to activitystrea.ms 13:23:43 [ASIDE]: Discussion of who will chair now that DKA has to board a plane. Dan Bri takes over... 13:23:55 chair: Dan_Appelquist 13:24:02 chair: Dan_Brickley 13:24:08 i define context based on groundings 13:24:15 in time and space 13:24:44 ok I have it http://crschmidt.net/foaf/menow/ 13:25:10 can someone make an attempt at writing down what daniela said? 13:25:13 should the definition include a social element? 13:25:33 Claudio: Having heard DKA's summary I think yes, that's good. I think we're close to a definition of context 13:25:39 the definition of context is very prgamatic. 13:25:46 Danbri: I'm afraid I can in half way through 13:26:00 ... my instinct is to get started withthe work as we atre an XG not a WG 13:26:16 DKA: We can't keep messing around talking about what we're going to talk about 13:26:39 ??: Even if defining an API is out of scope, I guess it's not out of scope to recommend that someone should? 13:26:50 here is another ontology: http://www.milanstankovic.org/opo/ontology.html 13:27:01 Håkan = hajons 13:27:06 DKA: Surely we should be working out where the gaps are and who should fill them 13:27:15 q+ 13:27:21 ack 13:27:23 that is the "Online Presence Ontology" 13:27:23 ack phila 13:27:29 ack Phil 13:28:12 action: PhilA to work with Claudio on taking the context discussion to a proposal 13:28:12 Sorry, couldn't find user - PhilA 13:28:24 We skipped item 1 and have done item 2 noe. 13:28:26 Zakim, what's on the agenda? 13:28:26 I see 6 items remaining on the agenda: 13:28:27 1. Convene SWXG WG meeting of 2009-06-17T13:00-15:00Z [from tpa] 13:28:28 2. Discussion on Context [from tpa] 13:28:29 s/noe/now/ 13:28:30 3. General Organization and Task Forces [from tpa] 13:28:31 4. Invited Guests [from tpa] 13:28:32 5. Creating User Stories on the Wiki [from tpa] 13:28:34 6. Social Network Matrix [from tpa] 13:28:38 action:Phil_Archer to work with Clausio to take context discussion to a TF proposal 13:28:47 AdamB has joined #swxg 13:28:48 Zakime, take up agendum 3 13:28:48 zakim, who is on the phone? 13:28:48 On the phone I see +1.314.683.aaaa, DKA, pchampin, tpa, claudiov, ??P15, oshani (muted), tinkster (muted), +1.510.931.aacc, AlexKorth, Phil_Archer, +4222aadd, cperey (muted), 13:28:52 ... jsalvachua (muted), +0797094aaff, ??P28, +46.1.08.01.aagg, Carine, MacTed, FabGandon, karl (muted), danbri 13:28:54 zakim, unmute me 13:28:54 karl should no longer be muted 13:28:56 Zakim, take up agendum 3 13:28:56 agendum 3. "General Organization and Task Forces" taken up [from tpa] 13:29:01 rrsagent, make minutes public 13:29:01 I'm logging. I don't understand 'make minutes public', PhilA. Try /msg RRSAgent help 13:29:16 DanBri: Just sorting out who is a TF leader 13:29:25 3. Task Forces 13:29:25 + Do we have confirmed leaders for Context and Privacy Task 13:29:25 Force (Karl Dubost)? 13:29:28 is that 1 or 2, ...etc 13:30:00 (who said "hi"?) 13:30:24 DKA: I think that Claudio and PhilA need to put toegther a more fleshed out TF goal in the wiki 13:30:32 daniela: claudio and phil will work on a fleshed-out scope in wiki, then if Claudio's happy with goals he is happy to be named on tf leader 13:30:33 ... that doen, he, Claudio, might then be TF leader 13:30:43 .,.. the though thing is getting consensus on the TF scope 13:30:50 zakim, unmute me 13:30:52 jsalvachua should no longer be muted 13:30:54 DanBri: did we have a leader on protability? 13:31:07 PeteFern: I think I was up for that 13:31:10 For Portability and Architectures Task Force (@@)? 13:31:21 trackbot, comment ACTION-35 seny a message to Evan about joining the July 1st call. No answer yet. Will followup in 2 days in no answer. 13:31:21 ACTION-35 Follow up with Evan, see if July 1st date to talk about microblogging works. notes added 13:31:21 via harry's last email : Context Ontology : http://www.w3.org/TR/2009/WD-dcontology-20090616/ 13:31:23 ??: I was trying to update the wiki for portability and architecture 13:31:25 OK, Pete + ?? (missed name) 13:31:36 danbri: is the wiki update going OK? Is it working? 13:32:03 joachim salvachua 13:32:09 "Has Joaquin found scoping to be better for 13:32:09 portability? Can we have two leaders per task force? Do we 13:32:09 have critical mass, and if so, can we get telecon times for 13:32:09 them?" 13:32:31 Joachim: I don't know if we have critical mass for this 13:32:36 (can someone post wiki pointer?) 13:32:40 ... we are trying to organise a call 13:32:47 http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/Portability_Architecture_TF 13:32:48 ... or an IRC meeting? 13:33:06 ... we can discuss the differnet tasks and see how we can organise portabuility and architecture 13:33:18 danbri: so could you take an actionm to do that? 13:33:21 Joachim: yes 13:33:53 action: Joachim to organise a meeting to discuss the scope of the portability and architecture TF 13:33:53 Sorry, couldn't find user - Joachim 13:34:21 trackbot, help 13:34:21 See http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc for help 13:34:44 trackbot, status 13:34:51 action: jsalvachua to organise meeteing to discuss scope of portability and architecture TF 13:34:51 Sorry, couldn't find user - jsalvachua 13:35:03 user is joaquin 13:35:24 action: joaquin to organise meeteing to discuss scope of portability and architecture TF 13:35:24 Created ACTION-40 - Organise meeteing to discuss scope of portability and architecture TF [on joaquin Salvachua - due 2009-06-24]. 13:35:55 danbri: Dan A where are we up to wrt invited guests? 13:35:56 Zakim, take up agendum 4 13:35:56 agendum 4. "Invited Guests" taken up [from tpa] 13:36:10 DKA: I think we need more inter-chair coordination 13:36:26 Do we need a chairing list like the scribes list? 13:36:26 zakim, mute me 13:36:26 jsalvachua should now be muted 13:36:29 ... my whole last week has been taken up woth W3C working group meetings and strange Greek visitors 13:36:36 s/woth/with/ 13:37:07 DKA: Informally, the invited guests I've had most feedback on is Sky Evans from the microblogging community 13:37:27 s/Sky Evans/this guy, Evan/ 13:37:34 resolved: danbri invite Evan P. of identi.ca to a call 13:37:36 -DKA 13:37:43 danbri to line up Evan as guest speaker 13:37:44 s/resolved/action/ 13:37:50 action: danbri to line up Evan as guest speaker 13:37:50 Created ACTION-41 - Line up Evan as guest speaker [on Dan Brickley - due 2009-06-24]. 13:38:14 ??: I had an action item to work with Harry to invite Nathan Eagle as a guest speaker 13:38:17 Zakim, take up agendum 5 13:38:17 agendum 5. "Creating User Stories on the Wiki" taken up [from tpa] 13:38:18 cool 13:38:25 I added a few 1-5 user stories 13:38:30 Would like some feedback 13:38:47 ?? = hajons = Håkan 13:38:58 zakim, unmute oshani 13:38:58 oshani should no longer be muted 13:39:05 There's some stuff about take down on the wiki 13:39:13 close 2x danbri actions 13:39:16 danbri: :) action-41 and action-35 are the same no? 13:39:17 continue oshani 13:39:17 Oshani: Hi, yes, I didn't write it formally but I will do 13:39:27 (similar, karl. similar ;) 13:39:30 s/danbri:/danbri,/ 13:39:33 Oshani: so you want me to write it based on the current template? 13:39:47 ... (the one Karl sent out) 13:39:55 danbri: That would be ideal but we're not fussy 13:40:08 q+ 13:40:14 ack phila 13:40:19 q+ 13:40:33 phil "i have a couple ... need to check not already done ... can add in next 48 hours... 13:40:46 "things around safety, people for whom their online id is their real id ... 13:40:57 "also people avoiding certain harmful ppl 13:41:04 More user stories: danbri, maybe your provenance of microblogs question could be added - tracing back forwarded messages. 13:41:06 interesting interpretation of online existence 13:41:32 danbri: Harry brought up the Iram situation - can that ne a uc? 13:41:46 tpa: I wanted to talk a little about cleaning up some of the ones already there 13:41:48 tinkster, care to attempt that writeup? 13:41:55 yes, sure. 13:42:03 thx. can you action yourself? 13:42:11 q+ re: deliverable of the privacy TF 13:42:12 tpa: I'm about to throw a third template into the system. What are the plans for the user stories? 13:42:30 ACTION Toby to document danbri's microblogging provenance question as a user story. 13:42:30 Created ACTION-42 - Document danbri's microblogging provenance question as a user story. [on Toby Inkster - due 2009-06-24]. 13:42:35 q+ about the user stories 13:42:37 ... is it going to be a running thing? Will it be locked at some point? What is the expected use of the edited version? 13:42:44 q+ 13:42:49 q- 13:42:54 I think we add stories during the life of the XG, but as we go on they will settle 13:43:07 q+ to talk about the user stories 13:43:18 danbri: The primary deliverable from this group is the report. That said, the repository of use cases is going to be useul for everyone to see what tech needs to address 13:43:57 karL: I think the user stories can be used when we're writing the formal spec - use them to define what we want to write about 13:44:14 q? 13:44:17 ack karl 13:44:17 karl, you wanted to talk about the user stories 13:44:24 Tim: I'm going to try nad converge the different things into one 13:44:33 ... I don't expect too much of a change from what Karl's template did 13:44:55 scribe notes that I think the previous 'tpa' accreditation was probably wrong 13:45:31 Tim: I've already seen some repitition. I've recommended that we use character names with first names from the alphabet 13:46:03 Tim: I think if I create different characters, that might generate new cases. 13:46:06 hhalpin has joined #swxg 13:46:13 danbri: Endorse the point about covering people from differnet backgrounds 13:46:17 +1 good idea with multiple backgrounds 13:46:25 action: danbri write up orkut/i18n/"looking for" issue 13:46:25 Created ACTION-43 - Write up orkut/i18n/"looking for" issue [on Dan Brickley - due 2009-06-24]. 13:46:38 Good cast of characters to start with: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alice_and_Bob 13:46:56 TIm: What would be nice would be that any story arriving after next week did so using the template 13:47:04 cf http://www.w3.org/WAI/redesign/personas 13:47:06 danbri: do you need a new action item for this? 13:47:08 Tim: no 13:47:17 danbri: Harry, you're here? 13:47:20 hhalpin, will you join us? 13:47:31 oshani: I'm confused about the final deliverable of the privacy TF? 13:47:47 ... I'd like it to be more specific 13:47:49 - +0797094aaff 13:48:06 ... I've not seen any e-mails on this. What is the privacy landscape? (please;-) ) 13:48:17 I think it is just some idea of what kinds of privacy solutions are out there 13:48:20 +??P10 13:48:30 Zakim, ??P10 is hhalpin 13:48:30 +hhalpin; got it 13:48:31 danbri: landscape is one of those words that means please describe everything? �! 13:48:42 zakim, who is speaking? 13:48:53 danbri, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: hhalpin (5%), MacTed (51%), karl (42%) 13:48:57 Karl: Like Oshani, I'm worried that the scope is not clear 13:49:18 ... it's why I was trying to make sure that the user stories would define a tighter scope 13:49:22 zakim, who is speaking? 13:49:32 danbri, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: MacTed (36%), karl (74%) 13:49:32 ... maybe I could discuss this with Oshani by mail 13:49:36 macted must be noisy? 13:49:49 (it was karl i think) 13:50:02 oshani: from my POV, context is as aspect of privacy so moving it out makes it difficult for me 13:50:15 danbri: is this something that we can solve by redirection? 13:50:26 ... we look at XMPP< microformats, open social etc/. 13:50:31 oshani: context subtask of privacy +1. on the other hand it makes sence to chop tasks down to subtasks 13:50:53 ... they'll say different things and it might give us a first pass on how they all cover this 13:50:57 stuff like SOAP has privacy too or something 13:51:10 Zakim, mute me 13:51:10 MacTed should now be muted 13:51:10 what is privacy in real life? 13:51:20 Zakim, take up agendum 6 13:51:20 agendum 6. "Social Network Matrix" taken up [from tpa] 13:51:44 some fix topic!! 13:51:51 rrsagent, make logs public 13:52:12 I think we have achieved the first level goal 13:52:13 danbri has changed the topic to: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-socialweb/2009Jun/0097.html 13:52:20 generated in multiple ways 13:52:24 HH: How I was envisioning the social matrix was a list of X sites, ideally geographically dispersed with some view on usage 13:52:37 http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/TopSocialNetworkingSites 13:52:39 .. how they implemented context, privacy and portability 13:52:52 the paper sent to the mailing list this week was very helpful 13:53:16 the one of sören preibusch, yes! 13:53:20 HH: Once the use case doc has some functionality like single log in, multiple groups, multiple privacy, dynamic context, then we can go through these different sites and see how they match up 13:53:21 yes 13:53:30 the paper sent was very helpful, but doesn't cover mobile social networks 13:53:50 HH: I was going to suggest we asked Sorin or his co-author to discuss at the next telecon how they would take their data and merge it into our deliverable 13:53:52 Social Network matrix 13:53:55 paper pointer: http://preibusch.de/publications/social_networks/privacy_jungle_dataset.htm 13:54:11 HH: the overview deliverable will be on future direction of W3C 13:54:16 tpa, i wanted to grab harry while he was there re 6. but sorry should've wrapped up User Stories first 13:54:23 .. but a technical deliverable would list some of the details 13:54:35 sounds good +1 13:54:50 HH: I'm just proposing that Sorin and I exchange matrices and look over each other's 13:55:04 is mobile social netowrks, social networks on mobile devices ? 13:55:22 (re 6, ... continue all actions) 13:55:31 These are large actions - Karl making a matrix is a big job 13:55:36 agreed 13:55:39 continued 13:55:49 HH: And there's a lot for me and Christine to do - they ain't going tobe done by next week 13:55:58 s/tobe/to be/ 13:56:10 No I'm good 13:56:12 tpa? anything more re user stories? 13:56:13 danbri: any more to say onuser stories? 13:56:25 danbri: we should begin to wrap up 13:56:30 mobile social networks = social networks which are by-design for mobile device users 13:56:36 mobile context-related privacy can only be covered be investigating mobile SNS 13:56:57 propsed resolution: accept http://www.w3.org/2009/05/20-swxg-minutes.html as last week's minutes 13:57:05 proposed resolution: accept http://www.w3.org/2009/05/20-swxg-minutes.html as last week's minutes 13:57:15 sure 13:57:18 maybe do that on mailing list 13:57:19 hhalpin, yes 13:57:20 Quick question - should we have Soren's Preibusch. 13:57:35 's paper to discuss? 13:57:37 I'm happy to accept last week's minutes. 13:57:47 hhalpin, good idea 13:57:52