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14:48:39 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/06/16-backplane-irc
14:48:43 <wiecha> rrsagent, make logs public
14:49:42 <wiecha> Meeting: Rich Web Application Backplane telecon
14:49:44 <wiecha> Chair: wiecha
14:49:48 <wiecha> Regrets: Uli
14:50:20 <wiecha> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-app-backplane/2009Jun/0005.html
14:58:00 <Steven> Steven has joined #backplane
14:59:45 <Zakim> INC_RWAB()11:00AM has now started
14:59:52 <Zakim> +[IBM]
14:59:55 <wiecha> zakim, [IBM] is wiecha
14:59:55 <Zakim> +wiecha; got it
15:00:03 <Zakim> +John_Boyer
15:00:27 <John_Boyer> John_Boyer has joined #backplane
15:03:53 <Steven> zakim, dial steven-617
15:03:53 <Zakim> ok, Steven; the call is being made
15:03:58 <Zakim> +Steven
15:04:07 <Steven> hi
15:09:30 <John_Boyer> scribe: John_Boyer
15:09:50 <John_Boyer> Topic: Ample SDK
15:10:02 <wiecha> http://www.amplesdk.com/examples/svg/dynamic/
15:10:11 <John_Boyer> other js implementations of W3C specs
15:10:51 <John_Boyer> xg report should accentuate the "ubiquity" movement of using js on the client
15:11:11 <John_Boyer> s/other/Charlie: other
15:11:18 <John_Boyer> s/xg/Charlie: xg
15:11:39 <John_Boyer> Charlie: they have cool XUL and svg stuff, have plans for xforms though nothing available yet
15:11:54 <John_Boyer> Charlie: not using the same decorator mechanism
15:12:14 <John_Boyer> Charlie: but is a viable technical approach
15:12:24 <John_Boyer> Charlie: I was impressed with their SVG on IE
15:12:33 <John_Boyer> Steven: Yes and it even works on Opera, though not Chrome
15:12:50 <John_Boyer> Charlie: We can approach them about decoration
15:13:06 <John_Boyer> Charlie: it points to need for standardization of this type of work
15:13:14 <John_Boyer> Charlie: Does anyone know what AML is?
15:13:35 <John_Boyer> Charlie: they have an XML wrapper around Google Maps.
15:13:50 <John_Boyer> Charlie: They do something close to a repeat for the pinpoints
15:14:12 <John_Boyer> Charlie: Not quite what Mark Birbeck is doing with atomic control
15:14:19 <John_Boyer> Steven: No it's more like nodeset
15:14:56 <John_Boyer> ... unrolled repeat
15:15:43 <John_Boyer> Charlie: Here would be a place to inject our richtext markup from ubiquity to put html into the pinpoints
15:15:54 <John_Boyer> Charlie: Steven, can you look at doing this for our demo?
15:16:00 <John_Boyer> Steven: I can look at it.
15:17:19 <John_Boyer> Steven: AML is "Ample markup language"
15:17:28 <John_Boyer> Steven: They have a repeater element
15:17:42 <John_Boyer> Charlie: I wonder what the event lifecycle for updating is
15:18:07 <John_Boyer> Steven: This is a Finnish site.
15:18:16 <John_Boyer> Steven: They have a Russian version of the site
15:18:59 <John_Boyer> Steven: Instead of XPath, they're using CSS selectors in their repeats
15:19:27 <John_Boyer> Steven: We ought to be talking to these people.
15:19:41 <John_Boyer> Charlie: They know about XForms; it's on their to-do list
15:20:13 <John_Boyer> ... their documentation says XForms 1.1 is currently in development
15:20:19 <John_Boyer> ... they also have an XBL page
15:20:26 <John_Boyer> John: what's the license?
15:21:05 <John_Boyer> John: If apache or bsd or something similar, that would enable ubiquity to borrow the XBL
15:21:16 <John_Boyer> ... if GPL, we won't be able to touch it
15:21:28 <John_Boyer> ACTION: Charlie to contact AML people about licensing
15:21:39 <John_Boyer> Topic: Ubiquity ODF
15:21:46 <Steven> http://www.amplesdk.com/ample/technologies/ui/
15:21:53 <Steven> XForms 1.0 (in development)
15:22:14 <John_Boyer> Charlie: John and I submitted a paper to DocEng09 on ODF improvements
15:23:24 <John_Boyer> Charlie: We can put it on the web until it is published
15:23:35 <John_Boyer> ... if/once it is accepted
15:24:04 <John_Boyer> Charlie: If we did an ODF spreadsheet, there would be confusion with xforms repeat
15:24:44 <John_Boyer> Steven: It's confusing if we show things in ODF that can already be done in XForms
15:25:33 <John_Boyer> Charlie: in ODT spec, there are a number of computed metadata items across the document that don't overlap with xhtml2
15:26:45 <John_Boyer> Charlie: These would be interesting because they highlight the ODFness, so we should accentuate points that people won't say "but I can do this in web markup or in xforms"
15:28:02 <John_Boyer> John: Are we not picking a flow layout fill-in-the-blanks contract document because it's too hard to implement?
15:28:25 <John_Boyer> Charlie: No, we get flow layout for free with HTML for the flow and xforms for the blanks.
15:28:46 <John_Boyer> John: I mean flow layout of *editable* text.
15:29:00 <John_Boyer> Charlie: Oh, no, that would be too hard to implement
15:30:33 <John_Boyer> John: Even if not implemented in the prototype, we can still make the point that there are important *interactive* capabilities that can be implemented that are beyond html + xforms
15:31:12 <John_Boyer> Charlie: Can you go into more detail?
15:32:46 <Zakim> -Steven
15:32:48 <John_Boyer> John: If the "web page" is in "design mode" that is essentially using a live DOM to record the end-user interaction as ODF
15:34:34 <Zakim> -John_Boyer
15:34:36 <John_Boyer> ODF on the web
15:34:41 <Zakim> -wiecha
15:34:42 <Zakim> INC_RWAB()11:00AM has ended
15:34:43 <Zakim> Attendees were wiecha, John_Boyer, Steven
15:34:50 <wiecha> rrsagent, make minutes
15:34:50 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/06/16-backplane-minutes.html wiecha
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