IRC log of xhtml on 2009-06-02
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 11:51:18 [RRSAgent]
- RRSAgent has joined #xhtml
- 11:51:19 [RRSAgent]
- logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/06/02-xhtml-irc
- 11:51:20 [trackbot]
- RRSAgent, make logs public
- 11:51:22 [trackbot]
- Zakim, this will be IA_XHTML2
- 11:51:22 [Zakim]
- I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, trackbot
- 11:51:23 [trackbot]
- Meeting: XHTML2 Working Group Teleconference
- 11:51:23 [trackbot]
- Date: 02 June 2009
- 11:52:07 [Roland]
- Agenda: http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/xhtml2/wiki/2009-06-02-FtF-Agenda
- 11:52:18 [Roland]
- Chair: Roland
- 11:57:27 [mgylling]
- mgylling has joined #xhtml
- 12:00:50 [Zakim]
- Team_(xhtml)12:00Z has now started
- 12:00:57 [Zakim]
- +Markus
- 12:01:08 [Zakim]
- +Roland
- 12:01:12 [Steven]
- zakim, dial steven-617
- 12:01:12 [Zakim]
- ok, Steven; the call is being made
- 12:01:13 [Zakim]
- +Steven
- 12:19:46 [Steven]
- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2009May/0021.html
- 12:22:46 [Tina]
- Tina has joined #xhtml
- 12:24:59 [Steven]
- http://www.thaiopensource.com/relaxng/xhtml/
- 12:27:24 [Zakim]
- -Markus
- 12:28:14 [Steven]
- http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Test/HTML401/20030123/tests/index.html
- 12:28:47 [mgylling]
- [hmm, got disconnected]
- 12:29:04 [Steven]
- In any case he is not yet online
- 12:29:13 [Steven]
- though I spoke to him an hour or so ago
- 12:31:41 [mgylling]
- ... and heres another +1 for relaxng
- 12:31:45 [Steven]
- Well, it's good to have some Ralxing expertise around
- 12:32:01 [Steven]
- Masayasu used to be our relax expert
- 12:34:27 [mgylling]
- I know relaxng quite well too (consider it my second tongue after swedish)
- 12:35:16 [Zakim]
- +Markus
- 12:36:08 [Zakim]
- -Markus
- 12:36:09 [Zakim]
- -Roland
- 12:36:09 [Zakim]
- -Steven
- 12:36:10 [Zakim]
- Team_(xhtml)12:00Z has ended
- 12:36:11 [Zakim]
- Attendees were Markus, Roland, Steven
- 12:36:23 [MoZ]
- what happened ?
- 12:36:28 [Steven]
- We're dropping the call until Shane arrives
- 12:36:47 [Steven]
- staying in the IRC channel
- 12:36:49 [MoZ]
- ok please ping me when you're back so
- 12:38:08 [Steven]
- OK
- 13:02:25 [Zakim]
- Team_(xhtml)12:00Z has now started
- 13:02:32 [Zakim]
- +ShaneM
- 13:04:52 [ShaneM]
- ShaneM has joined #xhtml
- 13:05:11 [ShaneM]
- zakim, who is here
- 13:05:11 [Zakim]
- ShaneM, you need to end that query with '?'
- 13:05:14 [ShaneM]
- zakim, who is here?
- 13:05:14 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see ShaneM
- 13:05:15 [Zakim]
- On IRC I see ShaneM, Tina, mgylling, RRSAgent, Roland, MoZ, Zakim, Steven, markbirbeck, trackbot
- 13:05:31 [Tina]
- ShaneM: Steven is on a school run, I believe; I'll call in when lunch is done.
- 13:05:47 [ShaneM]
- thanks
- 13:08:01 [alessio]
- alessio has joined #xhtml
- 13:09:36 [Zakim]
- +[IPcaller]
- 13:09:49 [alessio]
- zakim, IPcaller is Alessio
- 13:09:49 [Zakim]
- +Alessio; got it
- 13:10:30 [Zakim]
- -Alessio
- 13:12:18 [alessio]
- hi all, wasn't it at 13.00 UTC?
- 13:14:38 [ShaneM]
- yes
- 13:14:57 [ShaneM]
- Steven is tied up for a little while. roland, what's your plan
- 13:15:09 [alessio]
- ok... thx shane
- 13:17:39 [Tina]
- ... my phone is broken, again. I'm IRC only, folks.
- 13:17:52 [Steven]
- back
- 13:18:45 [ShaneM]
- hey steven. some of us are here - just waiting on you and roland.
- 13:19:41 [Steven]
- zakim, dial steven-617
- 13:19:42 [Zakim]
- ok, Steven; the call is being made
- 13:19:43 [Zakim]
- +Steven
- 13:20:44 [Steven]
- Given the number of issues we need to review in order to resubmit the PERs, I request that we schedule another 4 hour vF2F meeting. I suggest we try to do it Tuesday, 2 June at noon UTC: http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/meetingdetails.html?year=2009&month=6&day=2&hour=12&min=0&sec=0&p1=136&p2=179&p3=215
- 13:22:20 [Zakim]
- +Roland
- 13:22:35 [Steven]
- zakim, who is here?
- 13:22:35 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see ShaneM, Steven, Roland
- 13:22:36 [Zakim]
- On IRC I see alessio, ShaneM, Tina, mgylling, RRSAgent, Roland, MoZ, Zakim, Steven, markbirbeck, trackbot
- 13:23:22 [Steven]
- We are starting, MoZ, Alessio, Tina, mgylling
- 13:23:55 [Zakim]
- +??P7
- 13:24:09 [alessio]
- zakim, ??P7 is Alessio
- 13:24:09 [Zakim]
- +Alessio; got it
- 13:24:20 [ShaneM]
- http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2009/xhtml1-issues-20090527.html
- 13:24:30 [Steven]
- Scribe: Steven
- 13:24:38 [Steven]
- Shane: I reduced the list to 11 issues
- 13:25:23 [Steven]
- Shane: We received a formal objection from Ian Hickson
- 13:25:47 [Steven]
- Steven: About text/html?
- 13:26:00 [Steven]
- SHane: Yes, he doesn't like it
- 13:26:05 [Steven]
- s/SH/Sh/
- 13:26:27 [Steven]
- Steven: I believe that doesn't have to be a show-stopper
- 13:26:43 [Steven]
- Shane: And there is Bjoern's mail, that wasn't sent to us
- 13:27:19 [Tina]
- ShaneM: do we have a link to the formal objection?
- 13:27:19 [Steven]
- Steven: I haven't checked it rigorously, but I believe that points to issues he had already sent us
- 13:27:31 [Steven]
- ... but we should make sure
- 13:28:07 [Steven]
- ... that all his issues made it into the issue tracker
- 13:28:16 [Steven]
- Shane: Agreed
- 13:28:37 [Steven]
- Shane: So we have 11 issues that we should look at
- 13:29:48 [Steven]
- Topic: Issue 8407
- 13:31:07 [Steven]
- Shane: I replied to this ages ago
- 13:31:16 [Steven]
- ... anyway appx C is gone
- 13:32:06 [Steven]
- Steven: Who, quite honestly is going to misundertand this?
- 13:32:12 [Steven]
- s/tand/stand/
- 13:33:15 [Steven]
- Shane: We replied, he didn't answer, what do we do?
- 13:33:26 [Steven]
- Steven: we have followed process. Issue closed
- 13:33:44 [Steven]
- Topic: Issue 6227
- 13:33:55 [Steven]
- http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2009/xhtml1-issues-20090527.html#ssec2
- 13:34:12 [Steven]
- Shane: Marked as closed, but
- 13:34:41 [Steven]
- ... we advise against the XML declaration
- 13:35:00 [Steven]
- ... and say use UTF 8 or a higher-level protocol
- 13:35:28 [Steven]
- ... he asks a question, Steven replied, he didn't respond. Therefore we have met process.
- 13:36:01 [Steven]
- Steven: Issue closed
- 13:36:06 [Steven]
- Topic: Issue 703
- 13:36:15 [Steven]
- http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2009/xhtml1-issues-20090527.html#ssec3
- 13:36:54 [Steven]
- Shane: THis is an error in the DTD
- 13:36:57 [Steven]
- s/TH/
- 13:37:08 [Steven]
- s/is is an/This is an
- 13:37:32 [Steven]
- Shane: The DTD has been fixed
- 13:38:00 [Steven]
- ... is it OK for a PER?
- 13:38:13 [Steven]
- Steven: Yes, it doesn't break any browsers, it was a clear error
- 13:38:39 [Steven]
- Topic: Issue 6674
- 13:38:47 [Steven]
- http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2009/xhtml1-issues-20090527.html#ssec4
- 13:38:57 [ShaneM]
- http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2009/ED-xhtml1-20090528
- 13:38:57 [Steven]
- Shane: there is an updated editors'draft
- 13:39:06 [Steven]
- s/draft/ draft/
- 13:39:39 [ShaneM]
- Updated references section is at http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2009/ED-xhtml1-20090528/#refs
- 13:39:41 [Steven]
- ... I have split the references into informative and normative
- 13:39:52 [Steven]
- ... need an OK from you
- 13:41:20 [Steven]
- ... POSIX is for MAY, SHOULD etc
- 13:42:09 [Steven]
- ... there was a formal objection because the objector wanted us to point to 5th edition
- 13:42:28 [Steven]
- ... but we decided against that because of the change to name token
- 13:42:38 [Steven]
- s/edition/edition of XML/
- 13:43:39 [Steven]
- Stevrn|: I remember having that discussion
- 13:43:50 [Steven]
- s/Stevrn|/Steven
- 13:44:57 [Steven]
- ... isn't 5th edition just v1.1 back ported to 1.0?
- 13:45:28 [Steven]
- Shane: Regardless
- 13:46:13 [Steven]
- Steven: We deliberately made this decision, so I think we should defend it at the transition call
- 13:46:56 [Steven]
- ... I mean, the real thing we are trying to achieve here is adding schemas
- 13:47:28 [Steven]
- Shane: Anyone object to pointing to 4th edition?
- 13:47:45 [Steven]
- Moz?
- 13:48:20 [Steven]
- Shane: we refer to 2e of namespaces, an obvious improvement
- 13:49:36 [Steven]
- Shane: Are there any of the informative refs things that have to be normative? (I will update the ref to M12N)
- 13:50:13 [Steven]
- ... some of them aren't even referenced
- 13:50:23 [Steven]
- Steven: Chop ém out then.
- 13:51:00 [Steven]
- ... they may be leftovers from appx C
- 13:51:09 [Steven]
- s/ém/'em/
- 13:51:15 [Steven]
- rrsagent, make minutes
- 13:51:15 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/06/02-xhtml-minutes.html Steven
- 13:51:33 [Steven]
- Shane: Fixing them now
- 13:52:56 [Steven]
- ... three left, MIME, MOD, and MathML
- 13:52:59 [Steven]
- Steven: Looks good
- 13:53:59 [Steven]
- ... closes this issue
- 13:54:02 [Steven]
- Shane: I will reply
- 13:54:38 [Steven]
- Topic: Issue 9110
- 13:54:39 [Steven]
- http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2009/xhtml1-issues-20090527.html#ssec5
- 13:58:11 [alessio]
- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-html-editor/2002OctDec/0050.html
- 13:59:24 [Steven]
- Shane: Tobias asked us to fix it in XHTML2
- 13:59:55 [Steven]
- ... but Jim Ley brings it to XHTML 1
- 14:00:09 [ShaneM]
- I said "objects are independent entities within the page. Navigation is local to the
- 14:00:09 [ShaneM]
- object and its own processing. This is defined in HTML 4."
- 14:00:15 [Steven]
- ... but I claim it is an HTML 4 problem
- 14:01:29 [Steven]
- ... where the question is already answered
- 14:01:40 [Steven]
- Steven: Good answer
- 14:04:31 [Steven]
- Topic: Issue 8411
- 14:04:31 [Steven]
- http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2009/xhtml1-issues-20090527.html#ssec6
- 14:04:37 [MoZ]
- Moz : I'm with 4th edition. Since Namespace with XML is still not in sync with 5th edition
- 14:04:49 [Steven]
- Steven: Thanks MOz, that is good
- 14:04:54 [Steven]
- s/MOz/MoZ/
- 14:08:00 [Zakim]
- +Markus
- 14:10:09 [ShaneM]
- http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/struct/dirlang.html#adef-lang
- 14:10:13 [Steven]
- Steven: lang and xml:lang are normatively edfined elsewhere; I think it would be wrong to normatively define anything here
- 14:10:24 [Steven]
- s/edf/def/
- 14:10:45 [Steven]
- ... if you use both, with different values, well, that's your own silly fault
- 14:11:28 [Steven]
- Markus: Are the datatypes the same?
- 14:11:44 [Steven]
- Shane: I think one is a subset of the other
- 14:12:04 [Steven]
- ... so it is possible to have a value of xml:lang that is not a legal value of @lang
- 14:12:13 [Steven]
- ... (in theory)
- 14:13:55 [Steven]
- Steven: Didn't we want both lang and xml:lang for the same reason as name/id
- 14:14:17 [Steven]
- Shane: There is a difference, largely because of accessibility software
- 14:14:43 [Steven]
- ... we were trying to be good XML citizens by including xml:lang
- 14:15:57 [Zakim]
- irc bot restart will be required to re-connect with bridge for participant info. Restart will NOT be done immediately unless there is a consensus (tell #sysreq on irc) to do so.
- 14:16:26 [MoZ]
- You have no choice to use xml:lang. It comes with XML 1.0 (as well as xml:space)
- 14:16:45 [Steven]
- Steven: If we change the wording on this now, we would be leaving PER territory
- 14:16:52 [ShaneM]
- Good point. In XHTML 1.1 we say "This specification also adds the lang attribute to the I18N attribute collection as defined in [XHTMLMOD]. The lang attribute is defined in [HTML4]. When this attribute and the xml:lang are specified on the same element, the xml:lang takes precedence. When both lang and xml:lang are specified on the same element, they SHOULD have the same value."
- 14:16:55 [Zakim]
- ... Irc bot restart does not affect the actual telecon
- 14:16:55 [Steven]
- ... it could invalidate existing UAs
- 14:18:28 [Steven]
- Steven: In XHTML 1.1, we are expanding the number of allowable documents, and not invalidating existing UAs
- 14:19:46 [Steven]
- Shane: Section c.7 has been removed, so the comment doesn't apply
- 14:20:13 [Steven]
- Steven: It does, because he wanted something added to the normative requirements
- 14:20:56 [Steven]
- ... which is out of scope, because these attributes are defined elsewhere
- 14:21:24 [Steven]
- ... and I will argue that at the transition call
- 14:22:13 [Steven]
- 5 mins break for coffee
- 14:22:15 [Zakim]
- -Markus
- 14:25:50 [Zakim]
- -Alessio
- 14:27:52 [alessio]
- alessio has joined #xhtml
- 14:30:48 [Steven]
- back
- 14:31:46 [Steven]
- Topic: Removed anchors
- 14:32:04 [Steven]
- Shane: WHat do we do; I have kept the anchors with a pointer to the place where they now are
- 14:32:13 [Steven]
- Roland: That's the best we can do
- 14:32:51 [Steven]
- SHane: He's written a validator against appx C, and that broke the error messages in his validator
- 14:32:56 [Steven]
- s/SH/Sh/
- 14:33:36 [Tina]
- Who wrote a 'validator' ?
- 14:33:48 [Steven]
- Bjoern
- 14:34:45 [Steven]
- Steven: This isn't the first time this has happened with a W3C spec (anchors changing)
- 14:35:06 [Steven]
- Shane: Well, they don't get a 404
- 14:35:12 [Steven]
- Topic: 6593
- 14:35:19 [Steven]
- http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2009/xhtml1-issues-20090527.html#ssec7
- 14:38:21 [Steven]
- http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2009/ED-xhtml1-20090528/#h-4.7
- 14:38:33 [Zakim]
- -ShaneM
- 14:39:03 [ShaneM]
- sorry - just a minute
- 14:39:06 [Steven]
- Steven: We defer to XML on the definition of whitespace
- 14:39:10 [ShaneM]
- zakim, what is the code?
- 14:39:10 [Zakim]
- the conference code is 26631 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), ShaneM
- 14:39:15 [Steven]
- ... and even point that out in 4.7
- 14:39:34 [Zakim]
- +ShaneM
- 14:42:07 [Zakim]
- +??P10
- 14:42:14 [alessio]
- zakim, ??P10 is Alessio
- 14:42:14 [Zakim]
- +Alessio; got it
- 14:42:14 [ShaneM]
- http://www.w3.org/TR/2000/REC-xhtml1-20000126/#uaconf
- 14:46:04 [Steven]
- Steven: I still think that XML definition of whitespace on input, and CSS definition on output is the good answer
- 14:47:24 [Steven]
- ... and not add anything else. The spec at 4.7 says exactly what it should do
- 14:47:53 [Steven]
- Shane: Issue closed
- 14:48:16 [Steven]
- ... we are rejecting his request, no edits are associated with this change
- 14:48:43 [Steven]
- Topic: Issue 8285
- 14:48:44 [Steven]
- http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2009/xhtml1-issues-20090527.html#ssec8
- 14:49:56 [Steven]
- Shane: Nothing to do with this document.
- 14:50:07 [Steven]
- ... Do we want to add a schema?
- 14:50:17 [Steven]
- Steven: Let's not give ourselves any more work
- 14:50:33 [Steven]
- Shane: OK, this comment is not associated with XHTL 1.0 anymore
- 14:50:56 [Steven]
- Topic: Issue 8415
- 14:51:02 [Steven]
- http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2009/xhtml1-issues-20090527.html#ssec9
- 14:51:02 [Steven]
- http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2009/xhtml1-issues-20090527.html#ssec9
- 14:53:50 [Steven]
- Shane: I think he was misinterpreting this section
- 14:55:04 [ShaneM]
- http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2009/ED-xhtml1-20090528/#normative item 3
- 14:56:11 [Steven]
- Shane: It means "@name does not create a fragment identifier"
- 14:59:36 [Steven]
- Steven: Looking at the wording of his comment, he is asking for changes wrt to appx C, which is gone. So I think the issue is closed
- 15:00:07 [Steven]
- Topic: Issue 6397
- 15:00:15 [Steven]
- http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2009/xhtml1-issues-20090527.html#ssec10
- 15:00:20 [Steven]
- rrsagent, make minutes
- 15:00:20 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/06/02-xhtml-minutes.html Steven
- 15:01:33 [Steven]
- Shane: I have made the changes
- 15:01:52 [Steven]
- ... they make no changes to an UA
- 15:02:12 [Steven]
- ... and anyway, all the datatypes map to CDATA anyway
- 15:02:23 [Steven]
- s/anyway/
- 15:04:07 [Steven]
- Steven: So this is just editorial
- 15:04:20 [Steven]
- ... names of datatypes that are otherwise equivalent
- 15:04:27 [Steven]
- Topic: Issue 7087
- 15:04:37 [Steven]
- http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2009/xhtml1-issues-20090527.html#ssec11
- 15:06:05 [Steven]
- Steven: So we just take out the second part of the sentence
- 15:06:15 [Steven]
- s/tence/tence?/
- 15:06:23 [Steven]
- Shane: Yes, get rid of duplication
- 15:06:31 [Steven]
- Steven: I can live with that
- 15:06:40 [Steven]
- Shane: I will make that change
- 15:07:19 [Steven]
- Shane: It is in an informative section anyway
- 15:07:29 [Steven]
- Topic: Issue 6332
- 15:07:38 [Steven]
- s/63/62/
- 15:08:12 [Tina]
- Which list is 6332 on?
- 15:08:28 [ShaneM]
- 6232 is in the voyager issues thing - Steven is getting a link now
- 15:08:39 [Tina]
- Thanks
- 15:09:34 [Steven]
- http://htmlwg.mn.aptest.com/cgi-bin/voyager-issues/XHTML-1.0-SE?id=6232;user=guest;selectid=6232;statetype=-1;upostype=-1;changetype=-1;restype=-1
- 15:10:41 [ShaneM]
- Ian's objection is here: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-html-editor/2009AprJun/0020.html
- 15:10:53 [Steven]
- Steven: What can I say except that I disagree?
- 15:11:09 [Steven]
- ... ALl we do is give guidelines on getting documents to render in HTML UAs
- 15:11:17 [Steven]
- S/ALl/All/
- 15:12:37 [ShaneM]
- 5.1 in third edition current reads: XHTML Documents which follow the guidelines set forth in [XHTMLMIME] may be labeled with the Internet Media Type "text/html" [RFC2854], as they are compatible with most HTML browsers. Those documents, and any other document conforming to this specification, may also be labeled with the Internet Media Type "application/xhtml+xml" as defined in [RFC3236]. For further information on using media types with XHTML, see the informativ
- 15:14:53 [ShaneM]
- For information on delivering XHTML 1.0 Documents to user agents that do not natively handle this media type, see [XHTMLMIME] .
- 15:16:21 [ShaneM]
- So the final text for 5.1 would read: XHTML 1.0 Documents should be be labeled with the Internet Media Type "application/xhtml+xml" as defined in [RFC3236]. For information on delivering XHTML 1.0 Documents to user agents that do not natively handle this media type, see [XHTMLMIME] .
- 15:17:11 [ShaneM]
- any objections to this text?
- 15:17:14 [Steven]
- Steven: This is an informative section, right?
- 15:17:18 [Steven]
- SHane: Yes
- 15:17:23 [Steven]
- s/SH/Sh/
- 15:18:24 [Steven]
- Shane: I'll suggest the change to the commentator
- 15:19:08 [Steven]
- Shane: So we are done, modulo checking for missed comments, and checking new comments on the PERs
- 15:20:43 [Steven]
- Topic: Any other comments
- 15:22:01 [Tina]
- I have none
- 15:22:39 [ShaneM]
- ... Roland searches email archives ...
- 15:24:54 [Roland]
- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-html/2009May/0018.html
- 15:26:23 [Steven]
- Shane: Yes, this is new
- 15:26:35 [Steven]
- Roland: We'll talk about it when we get to 1.1
- 15:27:13 [Steven]
- ... it is in the wrong place, but let's add it to the issues system
- 15:29:00 [Steven]
- Topic: XHTML 1.1 issues
- 15:29:08 [ShaneM]
- http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2009/xhtml11-issues-20090525.html
- 15:29:36 [Steven]
- Shane: There are 21 issues
- 15:29:43 [Steven]
- ... most trivial
- 15:29:52 [Steven]
- ... I haven't done the final pass
- 15:30:09 [Steven]
- ... first issue is @id on script
- 15:30:28 [Steven]
- ... fixed and closed
- 15:31:11 [Steven]
- Topic: Issue 8840
- 15:31:21 [Steven]
- http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2009/xhtml11-issues-20090525.html#ssec2
- 15:31:36 [Zakim]
- irc bot will restart shortly; reinvite a minute or two after departure
- 15:33:26 [Steven]
- Steven: HTML4 disallows these with exclusions
- 15:33:39 [Steven]
- ... and for XHTML we used English text
- 15:34:16 [Tina]
- What's the reasoning behind that change?
- 15:36:17 [Steven]
- TIna - because XML doesn't have exclusions
- 15:36:30 [Steven]
- Steven: Oh but wait, Modularization uses exclusions!
- 15:36:35 [Steven]
- Shane: We were so clever!
- 15:36:42 [Steven]
- ... we win!
- 15:37:47 [Steven]
- ... "Content exclusions should be defined by the rules in M12N, which can't be expressed in all schema grammars"
- 15:38:12 [MoZ]
- That's where I think Relax NG + NVDL could help
- 15:38:42 [MoZ]
- (It's more Relax NG + Schematron to be fair)
- 15:39:17 [ShaneM]
- http://www.w3.org/TR/ruby/#abstract-def
- 15:39:27 [Steven]
- Shane: Ruby does it right too!
- 15:40:17 [Steven]
- Steven: So the reply is that the spec is clear, and does the right thing
- 15:40:38 [ShaneM]
- XHTML 1.1 references the XHTML M12N and Ruby Recommendations. Those Recommendations define content models using an abstract content model grammar, and these are specifically excluded already. While the underlying implementation(s) may not be able to enforce these exclusions because of limitations in their grammars, the restrictions are nontheless normative.
- 15:40:42 [Steven]
- ... using the definitions as required by M12N
- 15:40:57 [alessio]
- alessio has joined #xhtml
- 15:42:12 [Steven]
- Topic: Issue 6242
- 15:42:23 [Steven]
- http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2009/xhtml11-issues-20090525.html#ssec3
- 15:42:42 [Steven]
- Fixed
- 15:43:01 [Steven]
- Topic: Issue 587
- 15:43:03 [Steven]
- http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2009/xhtml11-issues-20090525.html#ssec4
- 15:44:32 [Steven]
- Shane: We don't make changes to work round bugs in software
- 15:44:35 [Steven]
- ... wrong approach
- 15:44:49 [Steven]
- Steven: Agreed
- 15:45:15 [Steven]
- Topic: Issue 614
- 15:45:18 [Steven]
- http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2009/xhtml11-issues-20090525.html#ssec5
- 15:45:31 [Steven]
- Shane: Fixed
- 15:45:58 [Steven]
- Topic: Issue 8341
- 15:45:59 [Steven]
- http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2009/xhtml11-issues-20090525.html#ssec6
- 15:46:58 [Steven]
- Roland: Keep it as is
- 15:47:29 [Steven]
- Steven: We could consider it for XHTML2
- 15:47:39 [Steven]
- ... it has a reasonable use-case
- 15:47:58 [Steven]
- ... this would take us out of PER territory
- 15:48:12 [alessio]
- zakim, who's here?
- 15:48:40 [Zakim]
- Zakim has joined #xhtml
- 15:48:45 [Steven]
- zakim, who is here?
- 15:48:48 [Zakim]
- sorry, Steven, I don't know what conference this is
- 15:48:50 [Roland]
- http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2009/xhtml11-issues-20090525.html#ssec7
- 15:48:56 [Zakim]
- On IRC I see alessio, ShaneM, Tina, mgylling, RRSAgent, Roland, MoZ, Steven, trackbot
- 15:49:03 [Steven]
- zakim, this is team_XHTML
- 15:49:04 [Zakim]
- sorry, Steven, I do not see a conference named 'team_XHTML' in progress or scheduled at this time
- 15:49:08 [Steven]
- zakim, list
- 15:49:10 [Zakim]
- I see WF_()10:00AM, Team_(xhtml)12:00Z, SW_SWD()11:00AM, SW_RIF()11:00AM, T&S_XMLSEC()10:00AM, VB_VBWG()10:00AM active
- 15:49:13 [Zakim]
- also scheduled at this time are WS_SOAP-JM()12:00PM, INC_RWAB()11:00AM, MWI_TSWG()11:00AM, SW_HCLS(COI)11:00AM, XML_ET-TF()11:00AM
- 15:49:17 [Steven]
- zakim, this is xhtml
- 15:49:20 [Zakim]
- ok, Steven; that matches Team_(xhtml)12:00Z
- 15:49:26 [Steven]
- zakim, who is here?
- 15:49:28 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see ??P22, Steven, Roland, ShaneM
- 15:49:34 [Zakim]
- On IRC I see alessio, ShaneM, Tina, mgylling, RRSAgent, Roland, MoZ, Steven, trackbot
- 15:49:40 [alessio]
- zakim, ??P22 is Alessio
- 15:49:42 [Zakim]
- +Alessio; got it
- 15:49:42 [Steven]
- Topic: Issue 656
- 15:49:43 [Steven]
- http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2009/xhtml11-issues-20090525.html#ssec6
- 15:49:51 [Steven]
- Shane: Fixed
- 15:50:15 [Steven]
- Topic: Issue 8422
- 15:50:16 [Steven]
- http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2009/xhtml11-issues-20090525.html#ssec8
- 15:50:42 [Steven]
- Shane: We have an objection because this is not fixed
- 15:51:31 [Steven]
- Roland: You think we should be pragmatic
- 15:51:49 [Steven]
- Shane: Yes, we should just do what UAs do now
- 15:53:14 [Steven]
- http://www.w3.org/People/mimasa/test/xhtml/imagemap/results
- 15:54:49 [Steven]
- Steven: The tests make it look like it should be a URI ref
- 15:55:06 [ShaneM]
- <img usemap="lala">
- 15:56:27 [Steven]
- Shane: external references have never been implemented
- 15:56:39 [Steven]
- ... so this wouldn't affect current implementations
- 15:56:57 [Steven]
- Shane: You have to change this in m12n
- 15:57:22 [ShaneM]
- http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml-modularization/xhtml-modularization.html#s_imapmodule
- 15:57:33 [Steven]
- Steven: then the issue is on the wrong spec
- 15:57:43 [Steven]
- Shane: Then I'll move it there
- 15:58:23 [Steven]
- Topic: 472
- 15:58:30 [Steven]
- http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2009/xhtml11-issues-20090525.html#ssec9
- 15:58:46 [Steven]
- Shane: Editorial; fixed
- 15:59:07 [Steven]
- Topic: 9716
- 15:59:08 [Steven]
- http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2009/xhtml11-issues-20090525.html#ssec10
- 15:59:10 [Zakim]
- -Alessio
- 15:59:40 [Steven]
- Shane: Handle this tomorrow
- 15:59:46 [Steven]
- [ADJOURN]
- 15:59:52 [Zakim]
- -Roland
- 15:59:54 [Zakim]
- -ShaneM
- 15:59:54 [Zakim]
- Team_(xhtml)12:00Z has ended
- 15:59:56 [Zakim]
- Attendees were Steven, Roland, ShaneM, Alessio
- 16:00:09 [Steven]
- Present+Tina
- 16:00:17 [Steven]
- Present+MoZ
- 16:00:27 [Steven]
- Present+Markus
- 16:00:40 [Steven]
- rrsagent, make minutes
- 16:00:40 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/06/02-xhtml-minutes.html Steven
- 16:00:56 [Steven]
- Regrets+Gregory
- 16:01:14 [Steven]
- rrsagent, make minutes
- 16:01:14 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/06/02-xhtml-minutes.html Steven
- 16:01:54 [Roland]
- Roland has left #xhtml
- 16:03:12 [ShaneM]
- thanks folks!!!
- 16:03:32 [mgylling]
- Bye all...
- 16:03:42 [mgylling]
- mgylling has left #xhtml
- 16:05:04 [alessio]
- alessio has joined #xhtml
- 16:13:57 [ShaneM]
- FWIW usemap is %URI in XHTML 1.0 strict
- 18:18:17 [Zakim]
- Zakim has left #xhtml
- 19:10:25 [markbirbeck]
- markbirbeck has joined #xhtml
- 20:29:49 [MoZ]
- MoZ has joined #xhtml
- 21:45:48 [markbirbeck]
- markbirbeck has joined #xhtml
- 22:20:23 [MoZ]
- MoZ has joined #xhtml