IRC log of rif on 2009-05-26

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:47:38 [RRSAgent]

RRSAgent has joined #rif

14:47:38 [RRSAgent]

logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/05/26-rif-irc

14:47:44 [ChrisW]

zakim, this will be rif

14:47:44 [Zakim]

ok, ChrisW; I see SW_RIF()11:00AM scheduled to start in 13 minutes

14:47:47 [ChrisW]

zakim, clear agenda

14:47:47 [Zakim]

agenda cleared

14:47:56 [ChrisW]

Chair: Chris Welty

14:48:01 [ChrisW]

rrsagent, make minutes

14:48:01 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/05/26-rif-minutes.html ChrisW

14:48:18 [ChrisW]

Meeting: RIF Telecon 26-May-2009

14:48:32 [ChrisW]

Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2009May/0205.html

14:49:05 [ChrisW]

ChrisW has changed the topic to: RIF Last Call Day II Telecon, Agenda http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2009May/0205.html

14:49:34 [ChrisW]

Regrets: PaulVincent

14:49:57 [ChrisW]

rrsagent, make logs public

14:50:50 [ChrisW]

agenda+ Admin

14:50:59 [ChrisW]

agenda+ Liason

14:51:10 [ChrisW]

agenda+ Action Review

14:51:17 [MoZ]

s/Liason/Liaison/

14:51:28 [ChrisW]

agenda+ PRD

14:51:32 [ChrisW]

agenda+ SWC

14:51:35 [ChrisW]

agenda+ FLD

14:51:44 [ChrisW]

agenda+ XML Schema task force

14:51:52 [ChrisW]

agenda+ WG Future and schedule

14:51:58 [ChrisW]

agenda+ rdf:text

14:52:01 [ChrisW]

agenda+ AOB

14:52:09 [ChrisW]

zakim, take up next item

14:52:09 [Zakim]

agendum 1. "Admin" taken up [from ChrisW]

14:58:54 [Zakim]

SW_RIF()11:00AM has now started

14:58:58 [Zakim]

+Sandro

14:59:18 [mdean]

mdean has joined #rif

14:59:37 [AdrianP]

AdrianP has joined #rif

14:59:38 [josb]

josb has joined #rif

14:59:48 [csma]

csma has joined #rif

15:00:27 [Zakim]

+Mike_Dean

15:00:52 [Zakim]

+Hassan_Ait-Kaci

15:01:34 [StellaMitchell]

StellaMitchell has joined #rif

15:01:45 [Zakim]

+[IBM]

15:01:54 [ChrisW]

Scribe: Mike Dean

15:02:00 [ChrisW]

scribenick: mdean

15:02:09 [ChrisW]

zakim, ibm is temporarily me

15:02:09 [Zakim]

+ChrisW; got it

15:02:22 [Zakim]

+??P15

15:02:23 [Zakim]

+Stella_Mitchell

15:02:25 [ChrisW]

zakim, Mike_Dean is mdean

15:02:25 [Zakim]

+mdean; got it

15:02:31 [hak]

hak has joined #rif

15:02:48 [ChrisW]

zakim, ??P15 is cke

15:02:48 [Zakim]

+cke; got it

15:02:48 [Harold]

Harold has joined #rif

15:02:53 [ChrisW]

zakim, who is on the phone?

15:02:53 [Zakim]

On the phone I see Sandro, mdean, Hassan_Ait-Kaci, ChrisW, cke, Stella_Mitchell

15:03:19 [cke]

cke has joined #RIF

15:03:32 [ChrisW]

zakim, Hassan_Ait-Kaci is hak

15:03:32 [Zakim]

+hak; got it

15:03:43 [ChrisW]

zakim, mute hak

15:03:43 [Zakim]

hak should now be muted

15:04:29 [Zakim]

+[NRCC]

15:04:43 [DaveReynolds]

DaveReynolds has joined #rif

15:04:47 [Harold]

zakim, [NRCC] is me

15:04:49 [Zakim]

+Harold; got it

15:05:02 [Zakim]

+??P42

15:05:19 [Zakim]

+[IPcaller]

15:05:26 [Zakim]

+??P44

15:05:29 [AdrianP]

Zakim, [IPcaller] is me

15:05:29 [Zakim]

+AdrianP; got it

15:06:02 [ChrisW]

zakim, who is on the phone?

15:06:02 [Zakim]

On the phone I see Sandro, mdean, hak (muted), ChrisW, cke, Stella_Mitchell, Harold, DaveReynolds, AdrianP, josb

15:06:27 [cke]

Christian is in IRC, but not on the phone

15:06:31 [DaveReynolds]

Apologies but I need to leave the call early (by about 40 min)

15:06:46 [ChrisW]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2009May/att-0195/19-May-2009-rif-minutes.html

15:06:52 [ChrisW]

PROPOSED: accept last weeks minutes

15:07:12 [ChrisW]

RESOLVED: accept last weeks minutes

15:07:15 [mdean]

ChrisW: contain 3 last call resolutions

15:07:22 [Gary_Hallmark]

Gary_Hallmark has joined #rif

15:07:23 [ChrisW]

zakim, next item

15:07:23 [Zakim]

agendum 2. "Liason" taken up [from ChrisW]

15:07:27 [mdean]

ChrisW: no agenda amendments

15:08:05 [Zakim]

+Gary

15:08:08 [mdean]

Sandro: SPARQL working group response and discussion about rdf:text

15:08:23 [mdean]

... need about 3 words change - mention SPARQL explicitly - all editorial

15:08:24 [Zakim]

+csma

15:08:33 [mdean]

... lots of people misunderstood spec

15:08:36 [csma]

zakim, csma is me

15:08:36 [Zakim]

+csma; got it

15:08:38 [mdean]

... close to consensus

15:09:11 [mdean]

... Axel proposed change from rdf:text to rdf:plainLiteral

15:09:21 [csma]

zakim, mute me

15:09:21 [Zakim]

csma.a should now be muted

15:09:27 [josb]

I would be fine with the name change

15:09:31 [mdean]

... don't expect any (other) substantiive changes

15:09:51 [mdean]

ChrisW: shouldn't require another last call by itself

15:10:26 [mdean]

Sandro: OWL 2 close to CR - one more document and internal approval - should be CR in a couple weeks

15:10:35 [ChrisW]

zakim, next item

15:10:35 [Zakim]

agendum 3. "Action Review" taken up [from ChrisW]

15:10:53 [MichaelKifer]

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15:11:26 [ChrisW]

close action-822

15:11:27 [trackbot]

ACTION-822 Change subscript "l" in 6.1 to something else (not so confused with "1") and have Jos proof-read the change. closed

15:11:41 [Zakim]

+MichaelKifer

15:11:55 [csma]

zakim, who is on the phone?

15:11:55 [Zakim]

On the phone I see Sandro, mdean, hak (muted), ChrisW, cke, Stella_Mitchell, Harold, DaveReynolds, AdrianP, josb, Gary, csma.a (muted), MichaelKifer

15:11:57 [mdean]

close action-821

15:11:57 [trackbot]

ACTION-821 Review pending DTB actions (815-820) closed

15:12:46 [csma]

782 and 784 are continued

15:12:56 [StellaMitchell]

zakim, Stella_Mitchell is really me

15:12:56 [Zakim]

+StellaMitchell; got it

15:13:23 [mdean]

780 and 777 are continued

15:13:28 [csma]

zakim, unmute me

15:13:28 [Zakim]

csma.a should no longer be muted

15:13:34 [Zakim]

-MichaelKifer

15:14:04 [mdean]

csma: hope for PRD last call today

15:14:38 [mdean]

ChrisW: Axel hasn't yet reviewed appendix

15:14:48 [mdean]

772 and 770 are continued

15:15:42 [mdean]

close action-770

15:15:42 [trackbot]

ACTION-770 Review Core closed

15:17:07 [mdean]

765 is continued

15:17:10 [StellaMitchell]

708 continued (in progress)

15:17:20 [hak]

continued until further notice ... (will get really serious on it when all the RIF XML vocabularies are stable - last call)

15:17:42 [mdean]

ChrisW: concludes open actions

15:18:00 [AxelPolleres]

AxelPolleres has joined #rif

15:18:12 [mdean]

... pending review: test cases, DTB treatment of casting

15:18:15 [csma]

zakim, mute me

15:18:15 [Zakim]

csma.a should now be muted

15:18:31 [mdean]

close action-740

15:18:31 [trackbot]

ACTION-740 Accomodate casting functions in a well defined manner closed

15:19:00 [Harold]

zakim, who is on the phone?

15:19:00 [Zakim]

On the phone I see Sandro, mdean, hak (muted), ChrisW, cke, StellaMitchell, Harold, DaveReynolds, AdrianP, josb, Gary, csma.a (muted)

15:19:01 [mdean]

close action-815

15:19:01 [trackbot]

ACTION-815 Mark rdf:text at risk in DTB closed

15:19:14 [Harold]

zakim, who is on the phone?

15:19:14 [Zakim]

On the phone I see Sandro, mdean, hak (muted), ChrisW, cke, StellaMitchell, Harold, DaveReynolds, AdrianP, josb, Gary, csma.a (muted)

15:19:38 [mdean]

close action-816

15:19:38 [trackbot]

ACTION-816 Rename "primitive" datatypes to datatypes closed

15:19:42 [mdean]

close action-815

15:19:42 [trackbot]

ACTION-815 Mark rdf:text at risk in DTB closed

15:19:47 [mdean]

close action-818

15:19:47 [trackbot]

ACTION-818 Make base directive iris absolute closed

15:19:55 [ChrisW]

zakim, next item

15:19:55 [Zakim]

agendum 4. "PRD" taken up [from ChrisW]

15:20:04 [mdean]

ChrisW: concludes action review

15:20:17 [csma]

zakim, unmute me

15:20:17 [Zakim]

csma.a should no longer be muted

15:20:42 [Zakim]

+AxelPolleres

15:20:48 [mdean]

... reviewers for PRD: Harold and Shanghai (sp)

15:21:12 [cke]

s/Shanghai/Changhai

15:21:15 [sandro]

sandro has joined #rif

15:21:35 [mdean]

csma: English proofreading

15:22:23 [mdean]

csma: Adrian addressed model theoretic concerns

15:22:27 [sandro]

Harold, do you know how to do wiki diffs? They are pretty readable these days...

15:22:29 [sandro]

(usually)

15:22:48 [mdean]

... moved semantics of conditions to appendix

15:24:11 [mdean]

... target audience more familiar with pattern-matching semantics

15:24:49 [Zakim]

+MichaelKifer

15:25:21 [mdean]

Harold: (forward) references to appendix are OK

15:25:34 [cke]

Christian, your change addresses my main concern. The others are more minor

15:26:20 [Harold]

PRD Editors, the Abstract is still a bit short.

15:26:25 [mdean]

Gary: would like pattern-matching and model theory to be equivalent, but requires talking about safety

15:26:55 [Harold]

s/safety/safeness/

15:27:21 [mdean]

csma: only reference to safety in conformance and definition in core, which may be obscure to non-logician

15:27:54 [mdean]

s/safety/safeness

15:28:21 [mdean]

csma: perhaps remove pattern matching from title of section

15:28:51 [mdean]

Gary: don't require constraint solving

15:29:34 [mdean]

csma: current definitions are equivalent

15:29:55 [mdean]

... this is an editorial change

15:30:01 [mdean]

Gary: wasn't obvious from my reading

15:30:19 [mdean]

csma: pattern matching title is misleading

15:31:00 [mdean]

csma: operational definition of safeness - working on it for a while

15:31:13 [mdean]

... hesitant to make Last Call dependent on such an editorial change

15:32:21 [sandro]

csma: This is just an editorial change; it does not affect conformance. we're clear that constraint satisfaction is not needed in consumers.

15:32:48 [Zakim]

+LeoraMorgenstern

15:33:32 [cke]

Does PRD inherit the safeness from Core??

15:33:33 [sandro]

csma: This will make understanding PRD easier for users, but does not change definition. We should work on this later, after Last Call.

15:33:56 [sandro]

chris: the change is: the move discussion of safeness to be earlier in document?

15:34:15 [sandro]

csma: Not exactly: to add an operational definition of safeness. Maybe move it -- I don't know.

15:34:43 [AdrianP]

we should try to build the PRD safety defintion upon the Core safety definition

15:35:10 [sandro]

chris: everyone agree that an operational definition of safeness is not required for last call?

15:35:19 [sandro]

harold: agreed

15:35:26 [josb]

agreed

15:35:40 [cke]

There is so far no mention of safeness in PRD.

15:35:59 [sandro]

mdean, don't let me as stop you from scribing -- I just want additional clarity on bits which I think are crucial to minute.

15:36:39 [csma]

Changhai: there is, in the conformance section.

15:38:39 [ChrisW]

zakim, who is talking?

15:38:48 [Gary]

2 issues: 1. is the model theory and pattern matching really the same? or does pattern matching imply safeness? 2. assuming equivalent, we should make it more obvious that safeness is required and can be used to simplify implementation

15:38:50 [Zakim]

ChrisW, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: csma.a (92%)

15:38:58 [ChrisW]

zakim, who is talking?

15:39:10 [Zakim]

ChrisW, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: csma.a (75%)

15:40:23 [csma]

actions: check that the two spec of the semantics of the condition are equivalent

15:41:55 [ChrisW]

action: chris to review PRD operational and model=theoretic conditions are =

15:41:55 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-824 - Review PRD operational and model=theoretic conditions are = [on Christopher Welty - due 2009-06-02].

15:41:57 [csma]

... clarify that safeness is required to guarantee that constraint solving is not required for RIF-PRD

15:43:34 [ChrisW]

action: csma to clarify in PRD that safeness is required to guarantee that constraint solving is not needed

15:43:34 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-825 - Clarify in PRD that safeness is required to guarantee that constraint solving is not needed [on Christian de Sainte Marie - due 2009-06-02].

15:43:40 [mdean]

csma: should satisfy Gary's comment

15:43:49 [csma]

... add, if possible, an operational definition of safety

15:44:10 [ChrisW]

action: csma add, if possible, an operational definition of safety

15:44:10 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-826 - Add, if possible, an operational definition of safety [on Christian de Sainte Marie - due 2009-06-02].

15:44:21 [mdean]

csma: definition would probably go in appendix

15:44:58 [mdean]

ChrisW: Last Call dependent on completion of actions 824 and 825

15:45:22 [mdean]

csma: also need to remove appendix 13 - currently incomplete

15:45:23 [ChrisW]

action: csma to fix or remove appendix 13

15:45:23 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-827 - Fix or remove appendix 13 [on Christian de Sainte Marie - due 2009-06-02].

15:45:48 [ChrisW]

action: gary review csma changes to PRD

15:45:48 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-828 - Review csma changes to PRD [on Gary Hallmark - due 2009-06-02].

15:46:27 [mdean]

csma: Last Call dependent on completion of 824, 825, 827, 828

15:47:23 [ChrisW]

PROPOSED: Publish PRD as Last Call, contingent on completion of actions 824, 825, 827, and 828

15:47:34 [Harold]

+1

15:47:36 [AdrianP]

+1

15:47:37 [cke]

+1

15:47:39 [StellaMitchell]

+1

15:47:40 [Gary]

+1

15:47:40 [mdean]

+1

15:47:41 [DaveReynolds]

+1

15:47:45 [hak]

+1

15:47:47 [ChrisW]

Axel: +1 (on phone)

15:47:51 [apollere2]

apollere2 has joined #rif

15:47:53 [MichaelKifer]

+1

15:47:54 [josb]

0 [since I could not review it]

15:47:56 [ChrisW]

+1

15:48:09 [sandro]

+1

15:48:13 [apollere2]

+1

15:48:14 [ChrisW]

zakim, who is on the phone?

15:48:14 [Zakim]

On the phone I see Sandro, mdean, hak (muted), ChrisW, cke, StellaMitchell, Harold, DaveReynolds, AdrianP, josb, Gary, csma.a, AxelPolleres, MichaelKifer, LeoraMorgenstern

15:49:07 [ChrisW]

Leora: +1 (on phone)

15:49:18 [ChrisW]

RESOLVED: Publish PRD as Last Call, contingent on completion of actions 824, 825, 827, and 828

15:49:24 [ChrisW]

zakim, next item

15:49:24 [Zakim]

agendum 5. "SWC" taken up [from ChrisW]

15:49:36 [csma]

zakim, mute me

15:49:36 [Zakim]

csma.a should now be muted

15:49:46 [mdean]

ChrisW: 2 reviews, from Axel and Gary

15:50:44 [mdean]

ChrisW: PRD checklist includes - check syntactic list ... from core

15:50:44 [ChrisW]

ack csma.a

15:50:47 [csma]

zakim, unmute me

15:50:47 [Zakim]

csma.a was not muted, csma

15:51:07 [mdean]

s/.../restriction/

15:51:45 [mdean]

Adrian: done for presentation syntax and XML

15:51:57 [mdean]

ChrisW: back to SWC

15:52:14 [mdean]

Axel: import for OWL, but OWL doesn't have import for RIF (e.g. DL Safe RIF Rules)

15:52:28 [mdean]

... a couple editorial items

15:53:01 [mdean]

... XML Schema namespace prefix terminology

15:53:18 [mdean]

ChrisW: not fixed?

15:53:27 [mdean]

Axel: no email from Jos

15:53:38 [mdean]

Jos: not yet incorporated

15:54:17 [mdean]

ChrisW: make concrete list and action, so vote can be contingent

15:54:18 [csma]

zakim, mute me

15:54:18 [Zakim]

csma.a should now be muted

15:55:34 [mdean]

Axel: multi-structures look different from BLD

15:56:04 [DaveReynolds]

Sorry I have to drop off. Vote +1 SWC for last call (subject to editorial changes from Axel). Vote 0 FLD for last call (no objection but prefer Chris's wording on Should/Must and haven't fully studied latest version).

15:57:20 [Zakim]

-DaveReynolds

15:59:02 [mdean]

ChrisW: changed a couple months ago

15:59:38 [mdean]

MichaelKifer: lack of uniformity entailing formulas that are not documents

16:00:19 [mdean]

... can now adorn any structure with any formula

16:00:45 [mdean]

s/can now/could/

16:00:56 [mdean]

... now more restrictive

16:01:17 [mdean]

... role of each item in semantic structure is now clear

16:01:28 [csma]

(Re lists in PRD: I just checked, and the abstract syntax includes the restriction)

16:01:52 [mdean]

... also allows more uniformity in FLD

16:02:51 [mdean]

ChrisW: SWC still has old multi-structure definition

16:03:12 [mdean]

MichaelKifer: ... not needed there, kind of artificial

16:04:12 [mdean]

Axel: recursive imports needs to be clarified

16:05:04 [mdean]

Jos: addressed in section 5.2

16:05:25 [mdean]

s/addressed/recursive imports addressed/

16:06:08 [mdean]

ChrisW: imports closure

16:06:53 [ChrisW]

action: josb to update SWC to new BLD definition of multi-structures

16:06:53 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-829 - Update SWC to new BLD definition of multi-structures [on Jos de Bruijn - due 2009-06-02].

16:10:01 [ChrisW]

action: to review jos' edits to SWC

16:10:01 [trackbot]

Sorry, couldn't find user - to

16:10:06 [ChrisW]

action: axel to review jos' edits to SWC

16:10:07 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-830 - Review jos' edits to SWC [on Axel Polleres - due 2009-06-02].

16:10:32 [mdean]

Gary: all known issues have been taken care of

16:11:45 [mdean]

Jos: suggest publishing SWC without proofs

16:12:57 [mdean]

Sandro: haven't asked for publication date yet - probably June 2 or 4, but could probably push off to June 9

16:13:31 [mdean]

ChrisW: proofs are non-normative

16:14:04 [mdean]

Jos: might require small changes

16:14:06 [sandro]

bug-fixed after Last Call are okay.

16:15:17 [mdean]

Sandro: worth waiting for proofs?

16:15:55 [mdean]

... but extra week would also help for rdf:text

16:16:32 [mdean]

Chris: get well soon

16:16:48 [ChrisW]

action: josb to finish the SWC proofs or remove them

16:16:48 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-831 - Finish the SWC proofs or remove them [on Jos de Bruijn - due 2009-06-02].

16:16:49 [mdean]

s/Chris/ChrisW/

16:17:20 [ChrisW]

PROPOSED: publish SWC as Last Call, pending completion of actions 829, 831, and 830

16:17:37 [AdrianP]

+1

16:17:39 [ChrisW]

+1

16:17:41 [josb]

+1

16:17:42 [Harold]

+1

16:17:43 [cke]

+1

16:17:43 [sandro]

+1

16:17:43 [StellaMitchell]

+1

16:17:43 [hak]

+1

16:17:44 [Gary]

+1

16:17:44 [MichaelKifer]

+1

16:17:45 [mdean]

+1

16:17:47 [apollere2]

+1

16:17:50 [ChrisW]

Leora: +1 (on phone)

16:18:06 [ChrisW]

RESOLVED: publish SWC as Last Call, pending completion of actions 829, 831, and 830

16:18:17 [ChrisW]

zakim, next item

16:18:17 [Zakim]

agendum 7. "XML Schema task force" taken up [from ChrisW]

16:18:30 [ChrisW]

zakim, list agenda

16:18:30 [Zakim]

I see 4 items remaining on the agenda:

16:18:32 [Zakim]

7. XML Schema task force [from ChrisW]

16:18:33 [Zakim]

8. WG Future and schedule [from ChrisW]

16:18:34 [Zakim]

9. rdf:text [from ChrisW]

16:18:34 [Zakim]

10. AOB [from ChrisW]

16:18:40 [ChrisW]

zakim, take up item 6

16:18:40 [Zakim]

agendum 6. "FLD" taken up [from ChrisW]

16:19:04 [mdean]

ChrisW: reviewed by Stella and Chris

16:19:17 [mdean]

StellaMitchell: all comments have been addressed

16:20:23 [ChrisW]

"All logic RIF dialects are required to be derived from RIF-FLD by specialization, as explained..."

16:20:43 [ChrisW]

"MUST"

16:22:07 [csma]

+1 that non-conformance is not weel defined, if it is a MUST

16:22:09 [ChrisW]

"All RIF dialects SHOULD be derived from RIF-FLD by specialization, as explained..."

16:22:19 [mdean]

s/weel/well/

16:23:14 [csma]

q+

16:23:34 [mdean]

ChrisW: SHOULD implies that you should say why if you can't do something

16:24:09 [Harold]

End of first paragraph: "Therefore, any logic dialect being developed to become a standard should either be a specialization of FLD or justify its extensions to (or, deviations from) FLD"

16:25:35 [csma]

q?

16:25:39 [Harold]

Could be changed to: "Therefore, any dialect being developed to become a standard should either be a specialization of FLD or justify its extensions to (or, deviations from) FLD"

16:26:17 [mdean]

MichaelKifer: prefer MUST and keeping logic

16:26:41 [mdean]

... but not a showstopper

16:26:42 [csma]

ack csma

16:26:55 [ChrisW]

ack csma.a

16:27:02 [ChrisW]

zakim, csma.a is csma

16:27:02 [Zakim]

+csma; got it

16:27:02 [Harold]

At later points "logic" could be kept.

16:27:47 [mdean]

csma: +1 for SHOULD, afraid of consequences of removing logic on PRD

16:28:06 [sandro]

ChrisW, let's just use SHOULD and leave in "logic".... okay?

16:28:15 [mdean]

ChrisW: still went through process, but not documented - grandfathered in

16:28:39 [sandro]

PROPOSED.... ?

16:28:51 [sandro]

ChrisW, we don't have a lot of time!!

16:29:25 [Harold]

What about: "Therefore, the development of any dialect to become a standard should start as a specialization of FLD or justify its extensions to (or, deviations from) FLD"

16:29:32 [mdean]

csma: removing logic throughout would be very painful

16:29:46 [ChrisW]

action: to update wording in intro & abstract to use "SHOULD"

16:29:46 [trackbot]

Sorry, couldn't find user - to

16:30:24 [ChrisW]

PROPOSED: go for another 10 mins?

16:30:24 [hak]

-1

16:30:25 [sandro]

+1 extend 10+ minuntes

16:30:27 [csma]

+1

16:30:30 [Harold]

+1

16:30:34 [mdean]

+1

16:30:41 [AdrianP]

+1

16:30:56 [mdean]

ChrisW: disjointness of variables and constants

16:31:01 [Zakim]

-hak

16:31:53 [mdean]

MichaelKifer: special syntax for constants would make this a mess and require disambiguation rules, e.g. open formulas

16:31:54 [csma]

action: mkifer to update wording in intro & abstract to use "SHOULD"

16:31:54 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-832 - Update wording in intro & abstract to use "SHOULD" [on Michael Kifer - due 2009-06-02].

16:32:26 [mdean]

ChrisW: don't require all dialects, but allow free variables in framework

16:32:38 [mdean]

s/all/in all/

16:32:59 [mdean]

MichaelKifer: require would substantial revisions

16:33:27 [mdean]

... need to think of what changes would require, but don't see much value

16:33:47 [mdean]

ChrisW: don't have particular use case, but note that it is allowed in Common Logic

16:34:20 [mdean]

MichaelKifer: if it's quantified, you know it's a variable

16:35:10 [mdean]

s/require would/would require/

16:35:25 [sandro]

MichaelKifer: because it's an exchange language, you always apply some sort of transformation anyway.

16:35:28 [mdean]

Harold: some editorial edits

16:35:43 [mdean]

... introduced extension points - now also in schema

16:36:03 [mdean]

MichaelKifer: haven't looked at Stella's message today

16:36:15 [ChrisW]

PROPOSED: Publish FLD as Last Call pending completion of action 832

16:36:17 [mdean]

StellaMitchell: clarification regarding XML serialization

16:36:33 [ChrisW]

+1

16:36:34 [sandro]

+1

16:36:38 [MichaelKifer]

+1

16:36:39 [StellaMitchell]

+1

16:36:40 [Harold]

+1

16:36:41 [mdean]

+1

16:36:44 [josb]

+1

16:36:44 [ChrisW]

Leora: +1 (on phone)

16:36:49 [AdrianP]

+1

16:36:54 [apollere2]

+1

16:37:01 [Gary]

+1

16:37:19 [cke]

+1

16:37:30 [ChrisW]

RESOLVED: Publish FLD as Last Call pending completion of action 832

16:37:55 [csma]

clap! clap! clap!

16:38:06 [mdean]

ChrisW: good work!

16:38:19 [mdean]

... long road

16:38:35 [ChrisW]

zakim, take up item 7

16:38:35 [Zakim]

agendum 7. "XML Schema task force" taken up [from ChrisW]

16:39:03 [Zakim]

-josb

16:39:16 [mdean]

ChrisW: glossed over several issues in normative exchange syntax

16:39:56 [mdean]

ChrisW: task force will meet regularly during Last Call, finish modularization, etc.

16:39:59 [cke]

How long will be task force be?

16:40:07 [csma]

I will send an email tomorrow

16:40:10 [mdean]

... csma will be leading the task force

16:40:16 [ChrisW]

zakim, take up item 8

16:40:16 [Zakim]

agendum 8. "WG Future and schedule" taken up [from ChrisW]

16:40:31 [AdrianP]

have not received any invite for the task force?

16:40:41 [mdean]

ChrisW: expecting a telecon next week and the week after that

16:41:02 [csma]

action: csma to send email about the XML schemas TF

16:41:02 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-833 - Send email about the XML schemas TF [on Christian de Sainte Marie - due 2009-06-02].

16:41:08 [mdean]

... then reduce to at least once a month to respond to LC comments as needed

16:41:15 [csma]

zakim, numute me

16:41:15 [Zakim]

I don't understand 'numute me', csma

16:41:22 [mdean]

... still reserve time slot but don't need every week

16:41:22 [csma]

zakim, unmute me

16:41:22 [Zakim]

csma was not muted, csma

16:41:41 [ChrisW]

zakim, take up item 9

16:41:41 [Zakim]

agendum 9. "rdf:text" taken up [from ChrisW]

16:41:43 [csma]

zakim, mute me

16:41:43 [Zakim]

csma should now be muted

16:42:16 [mdean]

Sandro: any problems with replacing rdf:text with rdf:plainLiteral?

16:43:00 [sandro]

rdf:PlainLiteral (capital P)

16:43:03 [csma]

ack csma

16:43:03 [mdean]

ChrisW: adjourned

16:43:07 [Zakim]

-Gary

16:43:11 [Zakim]

-LeoraMorgenstern

16:43:20 [Zakim]

-StellaMitchell

16:43:21 [ChrisW]

zakim, list attendees

16:43:21 [Zakim]

-Harold

16:43:23 [Zakim]

As of this point the attendees have been Sandro, ChrisW, mdean, cke, hak, Harold, DaveReynolds, AdrianP, josb, Gary, csma, MichaelKifer, StellaMitchell, AxelPolleres,

16:43:25 [Zakim]

... LeoraMorgenstern

16:43:30 [ChrisW]

rrsagent, make minutes

16:43:30 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/05/26-rif-minutes.html ChrisW

16:43:41 [Zakim]

-AdrianP

16:43:48 [csma]

zakim, who is the phone?

16:43:48 [Zakim]

I don't understand your question, csma.

16:43:54 [Zakim]

-cke

16:43:55 [Zakim]

-MichaelKifer

16:43:55 [Zakim]

-mdean

16:43:58 [ChrisW]

zakim, who is on the phone?

16:43:58 [Zakim]

On the phone I see Sandro, ChrisW, csma, AxelPolleres

16:44:14 [Zakim]

-AxelPolleres

16:44:55 [Zakim]

-ChrisW

16:44:56 [Zakim]

-Sandro

16:44:56 [Zakim]

-csma

16:44:58 [Zakim]

SW_RIF()11:00AM has ended

16:44:59 [Zakim]

Attendees were Sandro, ChrisW, mdean, cke, hak, Harold, DaveReynolds, AdrianP, josb, Gary, csma, MichaelKifer, StellaMitchell, AxelPolleres, LeoraMorgenstern

16:45:54 [MichaelKifer]

MichaelKifer has left #rif

16:53:22 [AdrianP]

Is it possible to have it one hour later 6 pm CEST?

16:57:21 [MoZ]

MoZ has joined #rif

17:02:23 [csma]

csma has left #rif

17:33:36 [sandro]

Zakim, room for 2?

17:33:37 [Zakim]

ok, sandro; conference Team_(rif)17:33Z scheduled with code 7431 (RIF1) for 60 minutes until 1833Z

18:34:45 [sandro]

sandro has joined #rif