11:55:44 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #mediafrag
11:55:44 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/05/20-mediafrag-irc
11:55:46 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
11:55:46 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #mediafrag
11:55:48 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be IA_MFWG
11:55:48 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see IA_MFWG()8:00AM scheduled to start in 5 minutes
11:55:49 <trackbot> Meeting: Media Fragments Working Group Teleconference
11:55:49 <trackbot> Date: 20 May 2009
11:56:07 <mhausenblas> Chair:     Raphael
11:56:12 <mhausenblas> Agenda:    http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-fragment/2009May/0029.html
11:56:17 <mhausenblas> Previous:  2009-05-13 http://www.w3.org/2009/05/13-mediafrag-irc
11:56:23 <mhausenblas> regrets+ Erik
11:56:29 <mhausenblas> rrsagent, make record public
11:56:33 <davy> davy has joined #mediafrag
11:56:36 <mhausenblas> Scribenick: mhausenblas
11:56:41 <mhausenblas> rrsagent, draft minutes
11:56:41 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/05/20-mediafrag-minutes.html mhausenblas
11:58:37 <Zakim> IA_MFWG()8:00AM has now started
11:58:44 <Zakim> +raphael
11:59:12 <Zakim> +??P1
11:59:21 <mhausenblas> Zakim, ??P1 is me
11:59:21 <Zakim> +mhausenblas; got it
11:59:48 <Zakim> + +0329331aaaa
12:00:00 <mhausenblas> Zakim, aaaa is davy 
12:00:00 <Zakim> +davy; got it
12:00:14 <mhausenblas> rrsagent, draft minutes
12:00:14 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/05/20-mediafrag-minutes.html mhausenblas
12:01:07 <conrad> heh
12:01:45 <mhausenblas> Zakim, who's here?
12:01:45 <Zakim> On the phone I see raphael, mhausenblas, davy
12:01:46 <Zakim> On IRC I see davy, Zakim, RRSAgent, nessy, conrad, raphael, Gui, mhausenblas, trackbot, Yves
12:02:02 <jackjansen> jackjansen has joined #mediafrag
12:02:35 <jackjansen> on my way
12:02:41 <jackjansen> zakim, code?
12:02:41 <Zakim> the conference code is 3724 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), jackjansen
12:03:12 <Zakim> +??P8
12:03:21 <Zakim> +cleophas
12:03:41 <Zakim> +silvia
12:03:52 <mhausenblas> Zakim, ??P8 is conrad 
12:03:52 <Zakim> +conrad; got it
12:03:54 <Gui> zakim, cleophas is gui
12:03:54 <Zakim> +gui; got it
12:03:57 <silvia> zakim, mute me
12:03:57 <Zakim> silvia should now be muted
12:04:00 <Zakim> + +20592aabb
12:04:09 <mhausenblas> Zakim, aabb is jackjansen 
12:04:09 <Zakim> +jackjansen; got it
12:04:16 <mhausenblas> Zakim, who's here?
12:04:16 <Zakim> On the phone I see raphael, mhausenblas, davy, conrad, gui, silvia (muted), jackjansen
12:04:19 <Zakim> On IRC I see jackjansen, davy, Zakim, RRSAgent, silvia, conrad, raphael, Gui, mhausenblas, trackbot, Yves
12:04:55 <mhausenblas> Topic: ADMIN
12:05:12 <mhausenblas> raphael: PROPOSED to accept the minutes of the 13 May 2009 telecon:
12:05:18 <mhausenblas> http://www.w3.org/2009/05/13-mediafrag-minutes.html
12:05:24 <davy> +1
12:05:27 <mhausenblas> +1
12:05:29 <raphael> +1
12:05:29 <Gui> +1
12:05:36 <mhausenblas> raphael: minutes approved
12:05:45 <mhausenblas> ACTION-66
12:05:48 <mhausenblas> ACTION-66?
12:05:49 <trackbot> ACTION-66 -- Jack Jansen to look at the organisation of the 4th F2F meeting in Amsterdam on September 17-18 (just after IBC) -- due 2009-04-23 -- OPEN
12:05:49 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/66
12:05:56 <mhausenblas> close ACTION-66
12:05:56 <trackbot> ACTION-66 Look at the organisation of the 4th F2F meeting in Amsterdam on September 17-18 (just after IBC) closed
12:06:30 <mhausenblas> raphael: what shall we do jackjansen? 
12:06:57 <mhausenblas> jackjansen: not so much in a hurry. after IBC things here in A'dam are normal again
12:07:01 <silvia> zakim, unmute me
12:07:01 <Zakim> silvia should no longer be muted
12:07:04 <mhausenblas> ... that is we can wait a bit
12:07:22 <mhausenblas> raphael: so we can wait till end of June
12:08:01 <mhausenblas> jackjansen: silvia, we didn't pick the slot due to IBC in the first place
12:08:11 <silvia> zakim, mute me
12:08:11 <Zakim> silvia should now be muted
12:08:15 <mhausenblas> ... but we wanted to have somethin in 09/2009
12:08:28 <silvia> zakim, unmute me
12:08:28 <Zakim> silvia should no longer be muted
12:08:41 <mhausenblas> jackjansen: other question. is any other place/time doable for the Aussies/SAfricans?
12:09:13 <mhausenblas> raphael: alternative proposal was SAMT09, Graz, Austria
12:09:48 <Gui> zakim, mute me
12:09:48 <Zakim> gui should now be muted
12:10:19 <mhausenblas> Michael: not sure if it makes sense to rehash that topic
12:10:53 <mhausenblas> raphael: we will ensure to have more virtual meetings as well
12:11:40 <mhausenblas> raphael: the September meeting is still an option
12:11:47 <mhausenblas> ... will be decided by end of June
12:12:04 <mhausenblas> Topic: UC & REQUIREMENTS
12:12:18 <mhausenblas> raphael: no progress so far, will be done ASAP
12:12:23 <mhausenblas> Topic: SPECIFICATION
12:12:30 <conrad> http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/wiki/UA_Server_HTTP_Communication#Conrad.27s_proposal
12:12:42 <mhausenblas> UA Server HTTP Communication (Conrad/Raphael)
12:13:43 <mhausenblas> conrad explains his proposal
12:15:19 <mhausenblas> raphael: question regarding Accept-Range-Refer is similar to the original proposal?
12:16:19 <mhausenblas> raphael: how is the conversion between sec and bytes done
12:16:47 <Zakim> -conrad
12:16:51 <conrad> bah
12:18:25 <raphael> My first observation: Accept-Range-Refer ~= Accept-Ranges AND Range-refer ~= Range HTTP headers
12:18:53 <mhausenblas> Michael: same here
12:19:40 <Zakim> + +1.818.061.aacc
12:19:49 <mhausenblas> Zakim, aacc is conrad 
12:19:49 <Zakim> +conrad; got it
12:19:54 <Gui> what I remember from Conrad proposal is : 1. clarification on the order of feedback mechanisms and 2. more verbose HTTP headers
12:20:10 <Gui> s/feedback/fallback
12:20:42 <mhausenblas> raphael: 1. question is sec to bytes conversion
12:21:48 <mhausenblas> conrad: Server is authoritative re conversion
12:21:55 <Zakim> -conrad
12:22:49 <Zakim> + +081806143aadd
12:23:11 <mhausenblas> Zakim, aadd is conrad 
12:23:11 <Zakim> +conrad; got it
12:24:23 <mhausenblas> silvia: we should have a comparison of the three proposals on the table
12:24:43 <mhausenblas> ... and having Yves on board would certainly help
12:26:09 <mhausenblas> raphael: now we should focus on the # solution, move ? to the bottom
12:27:14 <mhausenblas> jackjansen: I think we should keep the two as it might help establishing backwards compatibility, right conrad?
12:27:17 <mhausenblas> conrad: correct
12:27:46 <mhausenblas> raphael: ok, but we still need an overview table comparing the proposals
12:28:22 <mhausenblas> raphael: I also miss the number of roundtrips
12:28:31 <mhausenblas> ... seems always one, no?
12:28:56 <mhausenblas> conrad: no, there are further requests
12:29:36 <mhausenblas> ACTION-63?
12:29:36 <trackbot> ACTION-63 -- Conrad Parker to update the Wiki with his more general approach with precisely the same examples -- due 2009-04-23 -- OPEN
12:29:36 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/63
12:30:13 <mhausenblas> jackjansen: please give also a rational for it, esp. re the use cases you have in mind
12:30:36 <mhausenblas> ACTION: Conrad to provide some rational and use cases for his proposal
12:30:36 <trackbot> Created ACTION-80 - Provide some rational and use cases for his proposal [on Conrad Parker - due 2009-05-27].
12:30:48 <raphael> s/rational/rationale
12:30:56 <mhausenblas> rrsagent, draft minutes
12:30:56 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/05/20-mediafrag-minutes.html mhausenblas
12:31:12 <silvia> s/rational/rationale/
12:31:30 <jackjansen> s/ups/oops
12:31:35 <jackjansen> :-)
12:31:37 <mhausenblas> UA MF Resolution and Processing: (Michael)
12:31:43 <mhausenblas> work continues
12:32:11 <mhausenblas> raphael: so we continue to discuss via email
12:32:12 <mhausenblas> Topic: TEST CASES (Michael)
12:32:23 <conrad> Zakim, mute me
12:32:25 <Zakim> conrad should now be muted
12:32:33 <mhausenblas> raphael: we started to go through the TC last week
12:32:51 <mhausenblas> http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/wiki/TestCases
12:32:54 <jackjansen> url?
12:33:13 <mhausenblas> ACTION-79?
12:33:13 <trackbot> ACTION-79 -- Michael Hausenblas to summarise the options for 4xx status code for empty TC0002-0007 in a Wiki page -- due 2009-05-20 -- OPEN
12:33:13 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/79
12:33:20 <mhausenblas> close ACTION-79
12:33:20 <trackbot> ACTION-79 Summarise the options for 4xx status code for empty TC0002-0007 in a Wiki page closed
12:33:34 <mhausenblas> Michael: see http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/wiki/TestCasesDiscussion
12:34:15 <mhausenblas> PROPOSAL: In case an 'empty response' (such as found in TC0002-0006) occurs, the origin server MUST send an HTTP 416 status code if and only if the fragment range was given in an HTTP Range request header, otherwise a HTTP 406 status code MUST be send. 
12:36:55 <jackjansen> q+
12:37:18 <mhausenblas> Michael: beside not knowing of other usages of 416/406 ...
12:37:25 <mhausenblas> ack jackjansen 
12:37:44 <mhausenblas> jackjansen: has it already been decided?
12:38:04 <mhausenblas> s/decided/decided to be 4xx?
12:38:27 <conrad> :)
12:39:10 <Zakim> -conrad
12:39:52 <mhausenblas> jackjansen: why not using 204?
12:40:16 <Zakim> +??P8
12:40:34 <conrad> Zakim, P8 is conrad
12:40:34 <Zakim> sorry, conrad, I do not recognize a party named 'P8'
12:40:57 <conrad> Zakim, ??P8 is conrad
12:40:57 <Zakim> +conrad; got it
12:41:03 <conrad> Zakim, mute me
12:41:03 <Zakim> conrad should now be muted
12:42:02 <davy> I think range 20-10 is the same error as 0-0 if we specify that the start has to be smaller than the end
12:42:08 <raphael> Discussion about what *is* an empty fragment?
12:42:21 <raphael> 204: a valid fragment but no content
12:42:32 <raphael> 4xx: an error, because the UA has nothing to present
12:42:32 <Zakim> -conrad
12:43:11 <conrad> yeah :-(
12:44:24 <mhausenblas> ACTION: Michael to update the TC discussion page with 204 proposal and ask Yves's opinion on the list
12:44:24 <trackbot> Created ACTION-81 - Update the TC discussion page with 204 proposal and ask Yves's opinion on the list [on Michael Hausenblas - due 2009-05-27].
12:45:02 <mhausenblas> Topic: ISSUES
12:45:09 <mhausenblas> ISSUE-3?
12:45:09 <trackbot> ISSUE-3 -- Does our MF URI syntax imply that we need to update MIME Type registrations? -- OPEN
12:45:09 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/issues/3
12:45:19 <mhausenblas>  ISSUE-4 ?
12:45:23 <mhausenblas>  ISSUE-4?
12:45:27 <mhausenblas> Zakim, who's here?
12:45:27 <Zakim> On the phone I see raphael, mhausenblas, davy (muted), gui (muted), silvia (muted), jackjansen
12:45:30 <Zakim> On IRC I see jackjansen, davy, Zakim, RRSAgent, silvia, conrad, raphael, Gui, mhausenblas, trackbot, Yves
12:45:43 <raphael> ACTION-73?
12:45:43 <trackbot> ACTION-73 -- Conrad Parker to change the phrasing of the issue 4 (just audio/video)? -- due 2009-04-24 -- OPEN
12:45:43 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/73
12:45:44 <mhausenblas> conrad, re issue no. 4?
12:46:30 <conrad> ok
12:47:08 <mhausenblas> ISSUE-9?
12:47:08 <trackbot> ISSUE-9 -- Should we have the media type inside the Test Cases? -- OPEN
12:47:08 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/issues/9
12:47:34 <mhausenblas> ACTION: Michael to flesh out TC vocabulary re ISSUE-9
12:47:34 <trackbot> Created ACTION-82 - Flesh out TC vocabulary re ISSUE-9 [on Michael Hausenblas - due 2009-05-27].
12:47:42 <conrad> issue-4: so i think we discussed not predefining lots of track names, but perhaps predefining "audio" and "video" only: in which case action 73 would be to change issue 4 to "Should we predefine track names for audio and video"
12:47:42 <trackbot> ISSUE-4 Should we pre-define some track names? notes added
12:47:47 <mhausenblas> Topic: IMPLEMENTATION
12:48:27 <mhausenblas> raphael: to push implementations we need the proposals a bit better discussed
12:48:44 <mhausenblas> ... all actions here continue
12:48:53 <mhausenblas> Topic: AOB
12:49:02 <mhausenblas> RRSAgent, draft minutes
12:49:02 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/05/20-mediafrag-minutes.html mhausenblas
12:49:29 <mhausenblas> [adjourned]
12:49:44 <Gui> thanks, bye
12:49:47 <Zakim> -jackjansen
12:49:49 <Zakim> -raphael
12:49:50 <conrad> thanks all
12:49:50 <Zakim> -mhausenblas
12:49:52 <Zakim> -davy
12:49:53 <Zakim> -silvia
12:49:57 <mhausenblas> zakim, list attendees
12:49:57 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been raphael, mhausenblas, +0329331aaaa, davy, silvia, conrad, gui, +20592aabb, jackjansen, +1.818.061.aacc, +081806143aadd
12:50:07 <mhausenblas> silvia: good idea
12:50:30 <mhausenblas> just send an email to the list with subject [MF-TC] or so proposing it
12:50:37 <mhausenblas> I'll add it to the Wiki then, ok?
12:50:44 <silvia> cool
12:50:49 <mhausenblas> ta
12:50:56 <mhausenblas> rrsagent, please draft minutes
12:50:56 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/05/20-mediafrag-minutes.html mhausenblas
12:51:52 <raphael> OK, let's Michael starting the thread discussion on the mailing list for all arguing :-)
12:51:56 <mhausenblas> +1
12:51:58 <mhausenblas> :)
12:53:05 <raphael> manually
12:53:07 <mhausenblas> Zakim, bye
12:53:07 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees were raphael, mhausenblas, +0329331aaaa, davy, silvia, conrad, gui, +20592aabb, jackjansen, +1.818.061.aacc, +081806143aadd
12:53:07 <Zakim> Zakim has left #mediafrag
12:53:18 <mhausenblas> rrsagent, bye
12:53:18 <RRSAgent> I see 3 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2009/05/20-mediafrag-actions.rdf :
12:53:18 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Conrad to provide some rational and use cases for his proposal [1]
12:53:18 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/05/20-mediafrag-irc#T12-30-36
12:53:18 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Michael to update the TC discussion page with 204 proposal and ask Yves's opinion on the list [2]
12:53:18 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/05/20-mediafrag-irc#T12-44-24
12:53:18 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Michael to flesh out TC vocabulary re ISSUE-9 [3]
12:53:18 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/05/20-mediafrag-irc#T12-47-34