12:01:16 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #mediafrag
12:01:16 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/05/13-mediafrag-irc
12:01:18 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
12:01:18 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #mediafrag
12:01:20 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be IA_MFWG
12:01:20 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see IA_MFWG()8:00AM scheduled to start now
12:01:21 <trackbot> Meeting: Media Fragments Working Group Teleconference
12:01:21 <trackbot> Date: 13 May 2009
12:02:04 <Gui> agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-fragment/2009May/0022.html
12:02:12 <raphael> Chairs: Raphael
12:02:24 <Zakim> IA_MFWG()8:00AM has now started
12:02:31 <Zakim> +mhausenblas
12:02:34 <Zakim> +silvia
12:02:49 <raphael> Regrets: Yves, Erik, Davy, 
12:03:03 <nessy> zakim, mute me
12:03:03 <Zakim> sorry, nessy, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you
12:03:24 <silvia> zakim, mute me
12:03:24 <Zakim> silvia should now be muted
12:03:37 <Zakim> +[CWI]
12:03:44 <Zakim> + +1.712.841.aaaa
12:03:51 <raphael> zakim, [CWI] is raphael
12:03:51 <Zakim> +raphael; got it
12:03:55 <silvia> zakim, unmute me
12:03:55 <Zakim> silvia should no longer be muted
12:04:03 <mhausenblas> Zakim, aaaa is Gui 
12:04:03 <Zakim> +Gui; got it
12:04:11 <silvia> zakim, mute me
12:04:11 <Zakim> silvia should now be muted
12:04:28 <raphael> Present: Silvia, Michael, Raphael, Gui, Conrad, 
12:04:31 <Zakim> +??P13
12:04:42 <raphael> zakim, P13 is Conrad
12:04:42 <Zakim> sorry, raphael, I do not recognize a party named 'P13'
12:04:45 <Gui> zakim, mute me
12:04:45 <Zakim> Gui should now be muted
12:04:48 <raphael> zakim, ??P13 is Conrad
12:04:48 <Zakim> +Conrad; got it
12:05:04 <conrad> Zakim, mute me
12:05:04 <Zakim> Conrad should now be muted
12:05:06 <Gui> yes
12:05:09 <raphael> Scribe: yes
12:05:13 <raphael> Scribenick: yes
12:05:28 <mhausenblas> Scribenick: Gui
12:05:44 <Gui> TOPIC: ADMIN, next conference
12:05:53 <raphael> Minutes: http://www.w3.org/2009/04/29-mediafrag-minutes.html
12:06:08 <raphael> +1
12:06:15 <mhausenblas> +1
12:06:15 <Gui> Accepting minutes
12:06:18 <silvia> +1
12:06:56 <Gui> Ok, minutes of the 29 April 2009 telecom accepted
12:07:00 <silvia> zakim, unmute me
12:07:00 <Zakim> silvia should no longer be muted
12:07:02 <conrad> Zakim, unmute me
12:07:02 <Zakim> Conrad should no longer be muted
12:07:30 <silvia> zakim, mute me
12:07:30 <Zakim> silvia should now be muted
12:07:51 <conrad> Zakim, mute me
12:07:51 <Zakim> Conrad should now be muted
12:07:58 <Gui>  Zakim, unmute me
12:07:58 <Zakim> Gui should no longer be muted
12:08:15 <raphael> Summary: unlikely that Conrad, Silvia and Guillaume can make the Amsterdam meeting
12:08:29 <raphael> ... easier for Europeans (Michael, Jack, Raphael, what about Yves?)
12:08:31 <Gui>  Zakim, mute me
12:08:31 <Zakim> Gui should now be muted
12:08:56 <Gui> TOPIC: UC & Requirements
12:09:10 <Gui> The working draft has been published
12:10:23 <Gui> All actions arel ongoing
12:10:37 <conrad> Zakim, unmute me
12:10:37 <Zakim> Conrad should no longer be muted
12:11:00 <Gui> TOPIC UA Server HTTP Communication
12:11:13 <raphael> TOPIC:  UA Server HTTP Communication
12:11:47 <Gui> Conrad will discuss this at the next teleconf
12:12:04 <silvia> zakim, unmute me
12:12:04 <Zakim> silvia should no longer be muted
12:12:34 <Gui> We need to start capturing what we recommend regarding the use of "?" and "#"
12:13:31 <Gui> Silvia is getting inputs from the HTML5 mailing-list, any specific information that's relevant we should look at? Silvia and Conrad please keep track.
12:13:54 <raphael> Raphael: in the next iteration of the document, we should clearly clarify the role of '#' and '?'
12:15:26 <Gui> Further discussions about the MF syntax giving absolute times mechanism. It is a big requirement. Silvia to continue discuss with Thomas.
12:15:54 <conrad> Zakim, mute me
12:15:54 <Zakim> Conrad should now be muted
12:15:55 <silvia> zakim, mute me
12:15:55 <Zakim> silvia should now be muted
12:16:03 <Gui> TOPIC: UA MF Resolution and Processing
12:16:05 <raphael> http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/wiki/UserAgentMediaFragmentResolution
12:17:43 <Gui> Michael would like to take us through the document at some point.
12:19:02 <Gui> In the sequence of things, two things needs to be explained : 
12:19:07 <Gui> the template of HTTP headers
12:22:04 <silvia> zakim, unmute me
12:22:04 <Zakim> silvia should no longer be muted
12:22:36 <Zakim> -Conrad
12:23:18 <raphael> http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/wiki/UA_Server_RTSP_Communication
12:23:55 <Zakim> +??P13
12:24:13 <conrad> zakim, P13 is Conrad
12:24:13 <Zakim> sorry, conrad, I do not recognize a party named 'P13'
12:24:16 <mhausenblas> zakim, ??P13 is Conrad
12:24:16 <Zakim> +Conrad; got it
12:24:17 <silvia> http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2326.txt <- rtsp spec
12:24:36 <mhausenblas> q+
12:24:44 <conrad> Zakim, mute me
12:24:44 <Zakim> Conrad should now be muted
12:25:06 <silvia> zakim, mute me
12:25:06 <Zakim> silvia should now be muted
12:25:11 <mhausenblas> ack me
12:25:55 <silvia> http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/wiki/Image:Rtsp.jpg <- synchronise this picture with more details with the one for http
12:26:45 <mhausenblas> thanks silvia 
12:26:49 <silvia> :)
12:27:24 <Gui> TOPIC: TEST CASES
12:28:14 <conrad> Zakim, unmute me
12:28:14 <Zakim> Conrad should no longer be muted
12:28:21 <Gui> Discussing the issues raised on the mailing list
12:28:41 <Gui> e.g. t=10,
12:28:58 <Gui> Is it good syntax or not? 
12:29:27 <conrad> Zakim, mute me
12:29:27 <Zakim> Conrad should now be muted
12:29:33 <Gui> Do we need to specify the media type as well for each test case?
12:31:16 <Gui> 1. the way to express the media type in the fragment syntax (only the server would need to know)
12:31:30 <Gui> 2. Write the media type inside the Test case results
12:31:49 <Gui> (We need this data to be able to report on the test cases)
12:32:21 <Gui> Zakim, unmute me
12:32:21 <Zakim> Gui should no longer be muted
12:32:36 <raphael> trackbot, status
12:32:48 <Gui> Zakim, mute me
12:32:48 <Zakim> Gui should now be muted
12:33:09 <Gui> ISSUE: Should we have the media type inside the Test Cases?
12:33:10 <trackbot> Created ISSUE-9 - Should we have the media type inside the Test Cases? ; please complete additional details at http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/issues/9/edit .
12:33:29 <conrad> Zakim, unmute me
12:33:29 <Zakim> Conrad should no longer be muted
12:34:51 <silvia> zakim, unmute me
12:34:51 <Zakim> silvia should no longer be muted
12:35:16 <Gui> Let's go through each test case and spend one or two minute on each during a teleconf (now?)
12:35:34 <mhausenblas> +1
12:35:39 <silvia> zakim, mute me
12:35:39 <Zakim> silvia should now be muted
12:36:43 <conrad> +1
12:36:48 <conrad> Zakim, mute me
12:36:48 <Zakim> Conrad should now be muted
12:37:32 <raphael> TC0000: http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/wiki/TestCases#TC0000:_empty_MF: reviewed and agreed
12:37:32 <Gui> TC empty MF - Is there cases where the MF conforming UAs would behave differently?
12:37:58 <silvia> +1
12:38:10 <silvia> no
12:38:44 <Gui> TC0001: undefined time segment - npt - Would we expect an output?
12:39:15 <Gui> Do we agree that the output should be the entire resource?
12:39:35 <conrad> Zakim, unmute me
12:39:35 <Zakim> Conrad should no longer be muted
12:39:38 <Gui> it should be unspecified?
12:40:32 <conrad> Zakim, mute me pleeeaze
12:40:32 <Zakim> I don't understand 'mute me pleeeaze', conrad
12:40:35 <conrad> Zakim, mute me
12:40:35 <Zakim> Conrad should now be muted
12:40:41 <Gui> Gui has joined #mediafrag
12:40:51 <silvia> I agree - it should be the entire resource
12:40:51 <conrad> TC0001: +1
12:41:02 <mhausenblas> Scribenick: mhausenblas 
12:41:05 <Gui_> Gui_ has joined #mediafrag
12:41:20 <mhausenblas> RESOLVED: TC0001 accepted as proposed
12:41:25 <Gui_> TC0002: empty time segment - npt 
12:41:44 <conrad> Zakim, unmute me
12:41:44 <Zakim> Conrad should no longer be muted
12:41:53 <Gui_> zakim, unmute me
12:41:53 <Zakim> sorry, Gui_, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you
12:42:07 <raphael> zakim, who is there?
12:42:07 <Zakim> I don't understand your question, raphael.
12:42:10 <raphael> zakim, who is here?
12:42:10 <Zakim> On the phone I see mhausenblas, silvia (muted), raphael, Gui (muted), Conrad
12:42:13 <Zakim> On IRC I see Gui_, Zakim, RRSAgent, raphael, conrad, silvia, mhausenblas, Yves, trackbot
12:42:15 <Gui_> Zakim, Gui_ is Gui
12:42:15 <Zakim> sorry, Gui_, I do not recognize a party named 'Gui_'
12:42:18 <raphael> zakim, unmute Gui
12:42:19 <Zakim> Gui should no longer be muted
12:42:31 <silvia> #t=0,0 could be written as #t=x,x 
12:42:32 <mhausenblas> Scribenick: Gui_ 
12:42:44 <Gui_> zakim, mute Gui
12:42:44 <Zakim> Gui should now be muted
12:43:04 <Gui_> #t=x,x, where x=x
12:43:05 <conrad> i think that in barcelona we were talking about a zero-duration media file as the output of this
12:43:05 <silvia> where x is integer
12:43:37 <Gui_> Can a "zero duration media" be returned?
12:44:24 <Gui_> The resource exists, it's just that we return an empty fragment of it
12:45:19 <Gui_> Should we be returning a frame as empty content?
12:45:49 <Gui_> What is the purpose, a blank screen for Video, what about the case of Audio?
12:46:21 <Gui_> Maybe this is useful as "place holders"
12:47:50 <Gui_> Either we signal to the client that's it's a error (it's not allowed to do it) or it should be for some usage 
12:48:42 <conrad> Zakim, mute me
12:48:42 <Zakim> Conrad should now be muted
12:49:17 <Gui_> It could be in the content header, Content not acceptable 406 or 416 the requested range is not satisfiable
12:50:55 <silvia> I think: 416 Requested Range Not Satisfiable
12:51:37 <raphael> I think too Silvia
12:52:19 <mhausenblas> ACTION: Michael to summarise the options for 4xx status code for empty TC0002-0007 in a Wiki page
12:52:19 <trackbot> Created ACTION-79 - Summarise the options for 4xx status code for empty TC0002-0007 in a Wiki page [on Michael Hausenblas - due 2009-05-20].
12:52:39 <Gui_> For all the TC returning EMPTY, what should the response be to the UA be (see HTTP codes)?
12:52:42 <conrad> i think 416 if and only if the fragment range was given in an HTTP Range request header; a different error notification method otherwise :-)
12:53:37 <Gui_> We need to have these resolutions (on which HTTP codes we decide to use) written down
12:53:48 <silvia> conrad: I assumed that, too
12:54:27 <conrad> eg. #track= will not be handled through Range request
12:54:31 <mhausenblas> RESOLUTION: The WG agrees that empty is not an error (as in 404) but a recoverable state
12:54:34 <silvia> zakim, unmute me
12:54:34 <Zakim> silvia should no longer be muted
12:54:54 <mhausenblas> rrsagent, make logs public
12:55:01 <mhausenblas> rrsagent, draft minutes
12:55:01 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/05/13-mediafrag-minutes.html mhausenblas
12:55:17 <Gui_> Summarize what would the different responses be depending on the request (range request, others)
12:56:37 <conrad> i agree with silvia
12:56:41 <mhausenblas> s/RESOLUTION:/RESOLVED:
12:56:44 <mhausenblas> rrsagent, draft minutes
12:56:44 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/05/13-mediafrag-minutes.html mhausenblas
12:56:51 <Gui_> If the UA request a fragment of the entire duration, it should get notified with 206
12:56:51 <conrad> but 200 for TC0
12:57:30 <silvia> zakim, mute me
12:57:39 <Zakim> silvia should now be muted
12:58:10 <silvia> zakim, unmute me
12:58:35 <Zakim> silvia should no longer be muted
12:59:00 <Gui_> zakim, unmute me
12:59:23 <Zakim> sorry, Gui_, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you
12:59:42 <conrad> Zakim, unmute Gui
13:00:01 <Gui_> thanks conrad
13:00:03 <Zakim> Gui should no longer be muted
13:00:49 <conrad> +1
13:00:56 <silvia> zakim, mute me
13:00:56 <Zakim> silvia should now be muted
13:01:10 <conrad> client should ignore stupid request and not bother wasting the server's time
13:01:46 <Gui_> RESOLVE: We agree that the HTTP response code should be 200 for TC0000
13:02:09 <mhausenblas> s/RESOLVE:/RESOLVED: 
13:02:25 <mhausenblas> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:02:25 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/05/13-mediafrag-minutes.html mhausenblas
13:03:27 <Gui_>  RESOLVED: We agree that the HTTP response code should be 200 for TC0000, TC0001 should be 200 and the UA strip what's behind the #
13:03:59 <Gui_> For TC0002-6, Michael as an action
13:04:00 <mhausenblas> so that #t=, -> # which makes TC0001 == TC0001 ;)
13:04:19 <Gui_> RESOLVED: The WG agrees that empty responses is NOT an error, so it's not a 404
13:04:21 <mhausenblas> s/TC0001 == TC0001/TC0001 == TC0000
13:04:25 <mhausenblas> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:04:25 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/05/13-mediafrag-minutes.html mhausenblas
13:05:35 <conrad> +1 mhausenblas (and if we don't specify the details, implementers will choose arbitrarily :)
13:05:44 <Gui_> It takes a long time to go through the TC, we need to continue doing so. Michael, with our resolutions, will be able to reflect changes on the Wiki. Thanks Michael
13:05:58 <mhausenblas> ;) true, conrad. sad but true ;)
13:05:58 <Gui_> we are running out of time, and closing the teleconf for today. 
13:06:06 <Gui_> Nothing futher to discuss? no!
13:06:15 <conrad> ok!
13:06:20 <silvia> cool :)
13:06:23 <mhausenblas> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:06:23 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/05/13-mediafrag-minutes.html mhausenblas
13:06:26 <conrad> thanks all :-)
13:06:26 <silvia> zakim, unmute me
13:06:29 <Gui_> Thanks you everyone! Have a nice week!
13:06:32 <Gui_> Bye
13:06:33 <Zakim> silvia should no longer be muted
13:06:35 <Zakim> -mhausenblas
13:06:38 <mhausenblas> [adjourned]
13:06:39 <Zakim> -raphael
13:06:43 <Zakim> -silvia
13:06:45 <Zakim> -Gui
13:06:46 <Gui_> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:06:46 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/05/13-mediafrag-minutes.html Gui_
13:06:49 <Zakim> -Conrad
13:06:52 <Zakim> IA_MFWG()8:00AM has ended
13:06:53 <Zakim> Attendees were mhausenblas, silvia, +1.712.841.aaaa, raphael, Gui, Conrad
13:07:02 <mhausenblas> hang on
13:07:03 <Gui_> trackbot, status
13:07:24 <mhausenblas> s/Scribe: yes/Scribe: Guillaume
13:07:28 <mhausenblas> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:07:28 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/05/13-mediafrag-minutes.html mhausenblas
13:07:38 <mhausenblas> too late ;)
13:07:56 <mhausenblas> ah, worked, though
13:08:12 <Gui_> Thank you Michael for the support during scribing, thanks Raf for the rehashing (re-#) 
13:08:27 <mhausenblas> welcome, Gui_ 
13:08:37 <Gui_> thanks a lot!
13:08:41 <mhausenblas> bye Zakim 
13:08:53 <Gui_> zakim, bye
13:08:53 <Zakim> Zakim has left #mediafrag
13:09:01 <mhausenblas> ;)
13:09:05 <Gui_> rrsagent, bye
13:09:05 <RRSAgent> I see 1 open action item saved in http://www.w3.org/2009/05/13-mediafrag-actions.rdf :
13:09:05 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Michael to summarise the options for 4xx status code for empty TC0002-0007 in a Wiki page [1]
13:09:05 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/05/13-mediafrag-irc#T12-52-19