IRC log of egov on 2009-05-13

Timestamps are in UTC.

12:58:35 [RRSAgent]

RRSAgent has joined #egov

12:58:35 [RRSAgent]

logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/05/13-egov-irc

12:58:37 [trackbot]

RRSAgent, make logs public

12:58:39 [trackbot]

Zakim, this will be EGOV

12:58:40 [trackbot]

Meeting: eGovernment Interest Group Teleconference

12:58:40 [trackbot]

Date: 13 May 2009

12:58:48 [josema]

zakim, who's here?

12:58:49 [Zakim]

On IRC I see Owen, Zakim, davemc, John, josema, kevin, trackbot

12:59:01 [Zakim]

ok, trackbot, I see T&S_EGOV()9:00AM already started

12:59:08 [Zakim]

On the phone I see ??P15

12:59:37 [Zakim]

+[IPcaller]

12:59:43 [Zakim]

On IRC I see RRSAgent, Owen, Zakim, davemc, John, josema, kevin, trackbot

12:59:59 [Zakim]

+Rodrigo

13:00:01 [Zakim]

+ +1.202.626.aaaa

13:00:04 [John]

I am on my iPhone for IRC

13:00:11 [josema]

zakim, Rodrigo is me

13:00:17 [Zakim]

+josema; got it

13:00:23 [Zakim]

+??P33

13:00:30 [davemc]

ya'll aren't hearing me, will dial back in

13:00:52 [Zakim]

-[IPcaller]

13:01:20 [Zakim]

+Rachel

13:01:26 [josema]

zakim, aaaa is Kevin

13:01:26 [Zakim]

+Kevin; got it

13:01:40 [Rachel]

Rachel has joined #egov

13:01:41 [Daniel_Bennett]

Daniel_Bennett has joined #egov

13:01:48 [Zakim]

+??P7

13:01:54 [josema]

zakim, IPcaller is Owen

13:01:54 [Zakim]

sorry, josema, I do not recognize a party named 'IPcaller'

13:02:01 [josema]

zakim, [IPcaller] is Owen

13:02:01 [Zakim]

sorry, josema, I do not recognize a party named '[IPcaller]'

13:02:05 [josema]

zakim, who's here?

13:02:09 [Zakim]

On the phone I see ??P15, josema, Kevin, ??P33, Rachel, ??P7

13:02:10 [Zakim]

On IRC I see Daniel_Bennett, Rachel, RRSAgent, Owen, Zakim, davemc, John, josema, kevin, trackbot

13:02:14 [josema]

zakim, ??P7 is dave

13:02:20 [Zakim]

+dave; got it

13:02:20 [josema]

zakim, ??P7 is davemc

13:02:28 [Zakim]

I already had ??P7 as dave, josema

13:02:34 [josema]

zakim, dave is davemc

13:02:40 [Zakim]

+davemc; got it

13:03:05 [josema]

zakim, ??P15 is probably John

13:03:20 [Zakim]

+John?; got it

13:03:41 [josema]

agenda?

13:03:49 [josema]

zakim, who's noisy?

13:04:46 [Zakim]

josema, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Rachel (63%), Kevin (89%)

13:05:18 [josema]

zakim, who's here?

13:05:19 [Zakim]

+ +1.202.564.aabb

13:05:29 [davemc]

pretty responsive here

13:05:31 [Zakim]

+ +1.202.319.aacc - is perhaps Daniel_Bennett

13:05:33 [josema]

zakim, aabb is probably Brand

13:05:41 [Daniel_Bennett]

yes, aabb is Daniel

13:05:47 [Zakim]

On the phone I see John?, josema, Kevin, ??P33, Rachel, davemc, +1.202.564.aabb, Daniel_Bennett

13:05:47 [josema]

zakim, who's here?

13:05:55 [Zakim]

+Brand?; got it

13:06:03 [josema]

zakim, aabb is Brand

13:06:07 [Zakim]

On the phone I see John?, josema, Kevin, ??P33, Rachel, davemc, Brand?, Daniel_Bennett

13:06:08 [Daniel_Bennett]

whoops 202-319-aabb is Daniel

13:06:11 [Zakim]

On IRC I see Daniel_Bennett, Rachel, RRSAgent, Owen, Zakim, davemc, John, josema, kevin, trackbot

13:06:15 [josema]

it's fine :)

13:06:21 [Zakim]

sorry, josema, I do not recognize a party named 'aabb'

13:07:06 [josema]

zakim, who's here?

13:07:07 [Zakim]

On the phone I see John?, josema, Kevin, ??P33, Rachel, davemc, Brand?, Daniel_Bennett

13:07:08 [Zakim]

On IRC I see Daniel_Bennett, Rachel, RRSAgent, Owen, Zakim, davemc, John, josema, kevin, trackbot

13:07:31 [josema]

zakim, ??P33 is probably Owen

13:07:31 [Zakim]

+Owen?; got it

13:07:49 [josema]

chairs: john, kevin

13:07:55 [Daniel_Bennett]

is Twibe official?

13:08:00 [josema]

take up next agendum

13:08:13 [josema]

kevin: any volunteers?

13:08:23 [josema]

... adjustments?

13:08:38 [Daniel_Bennett]

Kevin wanted to discuss the panel this summer

13:08:49 [josema]

scribe: josema

13:08:53 [josema]

agenda?

13:09:03 [josema]

take up next agendum

13:09:19 [josema]

[kevin thanks everybody for the work on the Note]

13:09:47 [josema]

[kevin refers to: http://thedesignstate.com/national-design-policy-council-video/]

13:10:51 [josema]

kevin: doc puts up in very good position to help governments

13:11:15 [josema]

john: agree, kevin also sent appreciation note to Jose's W3C collagues

13:11:23 [josema]

...I'm sure we all endorse as group

13:11:35 [davemc]

+! Kudos to Jose are deserved

13:11:40 [josema]

...think this will be an important resource for people

13:14:01 [Zakim]

+ +34.63.557.aadd

13:14:29 [josema]

[jose thanks all and is happy to see this finally published, eager to discuss next steps]

13:14:35 [josema]

zakim, aadd is oscar

13:14:35 [Zakim]

+oscar; got it

13:15:00 [josema]

owen: also sent message to several lists

13:15:10 [josema]

daniel: great work, what next?

13:15:19 [Zakim]

+ +1.512.797.aaee

13:15:32 [josema]

owen: what about timbl + kevin to meet with Kundra?

13:15:42 [josema]

kevin: I'd be happy to do so

13:16:33 [josema]

zakim, who's noisy?

13:16:43 [Zakim]

josema, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: John? (29%)

13:17:30 [josema]

zakim, aaee is sharron

13:17:30 [Zakim]

+sharron; got it

13:17:39 [josema]

agenda?

13:18:56 [josema]

[jose mentions charter extension]

13:19:20 [josema]

take up next agendum

13:22:21 [Zakim]

-oscar

13:22:57 [josema]

[john gives summary of EU PSI directive, COM, status]

13:23:42 [josema]

[on PSI directive: http://ec.europa.eu/information_society/policy/psi/actions_eu/policy_actions/index_en.htm]

13:23:49 [josema]

s/PSI/EU PSI

13:24:06 [josema]

[john on need of transposition and deadlines]

13:25:21 [Sharron]

Sharron has joined #egov

13:25:58 [josema]

john: enabling people to create their own services have helped move the agenda in the UK

13:26:25 [Zakim]

+oscar

13:27:09 [Zakim]

+Ken

13:27:13 [Zakim]

-sharron

13:28:44 [Zakim]

+sharron

13:28:58 [josema]

jose: the examples in the COM caught my eye

13:29:22 [josema]

COM: http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=COM:2009:0212:FIN:EN:PDF

13:29:52 [josema]

john: I'm not planning to go to SemTech at the moment

13:30:13 [josema]

kevin: there's opportunity to speak but no travel funding

13:31:05 [josema]

[open government initiative event]

13:31:43 [josema]

->http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-egov-ig/2009May/0035 thread start

13:32:01 [josema]

s/initiative/innovations

13:32:16 [josema]

[opportunity to organize a panel there]

13:32:36 [josema]

s/[opportunity to organize a panel there]/daniel: opportunity to organize a panel there

13:32:52 [josema]

... some volunteered, plan to organize the panel around the Note content

13:33:15 [josema]

[personal democracy forum]

13:34:06 [josema]

daniel: held yearly in NYC, went last year, end of June this year

13:34:28 [josema]

...hosted by TechPresident, several high profiles speakers

13:35:00 [josema]

kevin: do you see opportunity to participate there wrt Note?

13:35:23 [josema]

daniel: I can ask Micah Sifry

13:35:29 [josema]

zakim, who's noisy?

13:35:39 [Zakim]

josema, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: oscar (28%), John? (99%)

13:35:44 [josema]

zakim, mute oscar

13:35:44 [Zakim]

oscar should now be muted

13:36:16 [Zakim]

-oscar

13:36:18 [josema]

john: we have a meeting tomorrow, Beth Noveck to give talk via videolink on OGD

13:37:05 [josema]

...easy to find, easy to use, easy to reuse ?? is the title

13:38:19 [josema]

[kevin re-reads activity plan and asks people to let group know of opportunities where we could talk about Note]

13:40:00 [josema]

take up next agendum

13:40:31 [Zakim]

+oscar

13:40:32 [josema]

[kevin reminds satisfaction after challenging initial period]

13:42:30 [davemc]

go for it. Let's hear them

13:43:24 [Rachel]

one challenge - learning w3c operating procedures, took a while for group to get up to speed

13:43:50 [kevin]

just a quick note that the twibe group EGOV is official. I set it up last week

13:44:12 [Rachel]

VERY important for folks to take turns scribing

13:44:48 [Rachel]

if Jose scribes, his time is divided between talking & typing and it is hard to do both well

13:45:12 [davemc]

I didn't attend the f2f, but the minutes were quite useful in coming up to speed.

13:45:20 [Rachel]

so Step Up people!!!!!

13:46:19 [Zakim]

-Brand?

13:46:25 [Rachel]

ideas - appoint a scribe at end of one call, to scribe the next call.

13:46:46 [Rachel]

Idea - if you are assigned to scribe and can't make the meeting, you are responsible to find a replacement

13:46:47 [josema]

scribe: Rachel

13:47:04 [josema]

dave refers to this one: http://www.w3.org/2007/eGov/IG/wiki/Scribe_List

13:47:04 [Rachel]

idea - if no one steps up to scribe, there is no meeting

13:48:22 [Rachel]

one challenge as group started was that most participants were new to w3c, new to IRC, may not have had access to IRC from work computer

13:48:24 [John]

I liked Daniel's suggestion

13:48:43 [John]

as a step

13:49:23 [davemc]

+1 Daniel's suggestion

13:49:52 [josema]

[Daniel volunteers to scribe next meeting]

13:50:48 [Rachel]

one barrier to scribing is not being familiar w/voices & names

13:50:49 [John]

Like Sharron did at our last meeting

13:51:16 [Rachel]

if you are new to the group, ask speakers to identify themselves before speaking

13:51:18 [josema]

[Sharron volunteers as backup]

13:53:43 [josema]

[Rachel volunteers to edit docs]

13:54:17 [josema]

kevin: "rapid issue releases"

13:54:17 [John]

Exactly +1

13:54:23 [josema]

+1

13:54:27 [davemc]

+1

13:54:45 [John]

No more 'war and peace'

13:55:08 [John]

(as in the novel)

13:55:25 [Zakim]

-oscar

13:58:05 [josema]

scribe: josema

13:58:25 [josema]

[john on http://sandbox.opsi.gov.uk/]

13:58:34 [Zakim]

+oscar

13:58:45 [josema]

zakim, unmute oscar

13:58:45 [Zakim]

oscar was not muted, josema

13:59:20 [josema]

john: if you want to talk about something you need to be able to identify it

13:59:38 [josema]

...e.g. you need to be able to point to a paragraph

14:00:04 [John]

You can't "mash" a PDF easily

14:00:39 [josema]

daniel: putting stuff up in XML allows for this sort of stuff

14:00:45 [josema]

...using XPointer, etc.

14:01:09 [davemc]

let's discuss mashing PDF separately. Technical point of order

14:02:10 [josema]

owen: I think that john's example is interesting to show that governments do not get it

14:02:25 [John]

+1

14:02:28 [josema]

...XML->PDF automatically is doable, opposite not true

14:02:55 [josema]

dave: PDF purpose is to show exact replica of doc, not to have pointers to this or that

14:03:25 [josema]

...XML made for that, not a PDF expert but heard from them it's even possible with PDF

14:03:58 [John]

Is bad PDF like bad HTML - you can do better but people often don't?

14:04:20 [josema]

kevin: respect both paths here, we want to provide as much data as possible

14:04:44 [davemc]

PDF to XPDF is available via free technology from Adobe http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/mars/

14:04:46 [josema]

daniel: we should not shy away with getting into discussion about formats with respect

14:05:12 [John]

yup, the point is the URI

14:05:30 [josema]

dave: agree and believe there are principles that could be applicable to a variety of formats

14:06:00 [josema]

oscar: PDF is wonderful technology, but I was trying to point out in the doc it's difficult to get data out

14:06:24 [josema]

...probably a technology that it's used in the wrong context in many cases, hence the issues

14:06:38 [josema]

...this is something we could also work on in the future

14:06:50 [josema]

...formats are of paramount importance

14:07:02 [josema]

daniel: sandbox stuff is wonderful

14:07:22 [josema]

...having techniques for dealing with that sort of information is always useful

14:08:55 [josema]

dave: US Courts have 350Mio docs in PDFs, we should be careful not to break the leal tracks when structuring the data

14:09:26 [josema]

rachel: 99% of people dealing with content don't have a clear idea of what XML, this needs a cultural change, capability building

14:10:29 [josema]

daniel: brilliant point

14:11:09 [josema]

rachel: people do not easily move to do something differently

14:11:38 [josema]

kevin: I believe those are things to potentially incorporate in 2nd charter

14:11:59 [josema]

...better communication to ???

14:12:12 [josema]

...is that something we want to build onto?

14:12:35 [josema]

dave: agree???

14:12:41 [josema]

agenda?

14:13:36 [John]

We just drifted - no conspiracy :)

14:16:15 [John]

my view, we worked best as one group

14:16:22 [josema]

[jose on TFs expectations different from outcome]

14:16:47 [josema]

oscar: agree, don't think they have worked very well, we might want to explore something different

14:17:16 [Sharron]

agree, re-org is good idea

14:20:02 [dmcallis]

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14:20:02 [Zakim]

-davemc

14:20:16 [dmcallis]

sorry, my internet connection dropped

14:20:25 [josema]

rachel: suggest to have a pre-marketing plan for next docs

14:20:30 [josema]

kevin: agree

14:21:13 [dmcallis]

dmcallis has left #egov

14:21:45 [josema]

owen: key issue is to identify and establish comms with stakeholders

14:22:51 [josema]

take up next agendum

14:22:51 [Rachel]

also identify channels where we want to distribute message - twitter, etc

14:23:26 [josema]

kevin: need to get a draft of 2nd charter in June

14:24:11 [josema]

kevin: homework assignment: should the IG focus on less topics?

14:24:30 [josema]

...think about it, go through paper, identify some

14:24:45 [josema]

...I feel each of major areas in paper are very timely and applicable

14:25:00 [josema]

...I'd like to preserve those categories if doable with resources we have

14:25:07 [John]

maybe we should do a 'divide the dollar' exercise to priopritise?

14:25:26 [josema]

owen: point is who wants to work on what?

14:25:49 [josema]

...I'd be more than willing to document goals and stakeholders in StratML

14:25:55 [josema]

oscar: I'd need some time to think about it

14:26:02 [josema]

...start thread by email

14:27:34 [josema]

daniel: I would be a little bit worried about trying to do many things at once

14:27:58 [josema]

...as owen said we should question ourselves if we are meeting stakeholders' needs

14:28:47 [josema]

john: I think we need to prioritize, we cover a broad are now on Note

14:29:02 [josema]

...we need to pick those places where we can make most impact

14:29:15 [josema]

...strongest level of participation and expertise

14:29:24 [josema]

...go through a conversation as a group

14:29:29 [josema]

...to identify them

14:29:37 [josema]

+1

14:30:10 [josema]

kevin: I think we are all saying same thing, agree with both

14:30:48 [josema]

...March F2F had great participation that allowed us to be where we are today

14:31:28 [josema]

...reason why I'm also interested in marketing our efforts, led to this good position

14:31:44 [josema]

rachel: what are the end result we want for stage 2?

14:32:02 [josema]

rrsagent, draft minutes

14:32:02 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/05/13-egov-minutes.html josema

14:32:26 [josema]

kevin: I think we need to start solving what we can solve out of those issues we identified already

14:32:34 [Zakim]

-oscar

14:32:38 [John]

+1

14:32:53 [josema]

...we have lots of questions in there, need to address them

14:32:55 [josema]

+1

14:33:07 [John]

plural - documents

14:34:01 [josema]

john: no way we'll solve all issues identified

14:34:21 [josema]

...but if we focus well we can achieve success in small amounts

14:34:25 [josema]

...going step by step

14:34:38 [Zakim]

-sharron

14:34:40 [Sharron]

must go, bye all til next time.

14:35:36 [josema]

kevin: I think we need to be open

14:35:59 [John]

so, year 2, solutions to issues, severaldocs, but agile and responsive

14:37:40 [John]

Normative sounds scary...

14:38:07 [josema]

not that much ;)

14:38:45 [josema]

ACTION: josema to send message to list about different publishing options rec/BPS/etc.

14:38:46 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-63 - Send message to list about different publishing options rec/BPS/etc. [on José Manuel Alonso - due 2009-05-20].

14:39:41 [josema]

owen: +1 to produce smaller docs and reference better existing ones

14:41:01 [josema]

kevin: can everybody commit to submit messages with ideas, description as specific as possible around this next week, get together in 2 weeks time and review that list and build consensus around it?

14:41:05 [josema]

[all agree]

14:42:01 [josema]

[kevin to touch base with Karen get back to group on marketing plan]

14:43:54 [josema]

[ADJOURNED]

14:44:04 [Zakim]

-Kevin

14:44:06 [Zakim]

-josema

14:44:07 [Zakim]

-Daniel_Bennett

14:44:07 [Zakim]

-Rachel

14:44:09 [Zakim]

-Ken

14:44:10 [Zakim]

-John?

14:44:10 [Zakim]

T&S_EGOV()9:00AM has ended

14:44:11 [Zakim]

Attendees were [IPcaller], +1.202.626.aaaa, josema, Rachel, Kevin, davemc, John?, +1.202.564.aabb, +1.202.319.aacc, Brand?, Owen?, +34.63.557.aadd, oscar, +1.512.797.aaee, sharron,

14:44:13 [Zakim]

... Ken

14:44:21 [josema]

rrsagent, draft minutes

14:44:21 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/05/13-egov-minutes.html josema

14:51:02 [John]

John has left #egov

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