IRC log of html-wg on 2009-05-07

Timestamps are in UTC.

15:59:14 [RRSAgent]: RRSAgent has joined #html-wg
15:59:14 [RRSAgent]: logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/05/07-html-wg-irc
15:59:15 [DanC]: some part of the processing chain for http://www.w3.org/html/wg/href/draft-ietf.html put an incorrect charset decl
15:59:16 [trackbot]: RRSAgent, make logs public
15:59:16 [Zakim]: Zakim has joined #html-wg
15:59:17 [pimpbot]: Title: Web addresses in HTML 5 (at www.w3.org)
15:59:18 [trackbot]: Zakim, this will be HTML
15:59:18 [Zakim]: ok, trackbot, I see HTML_WG()12:00PM already started
15:59:19 [trackbot]: Meeting: HTML Weekly Teleconference
15:59:19 [trackbot]: Date: 07 May 2009
16:00:33 [Zakim]: - +49.251.280.aaaa
16:00:34 [Zakim]: HTML_WG()12:00PM has ended
16:00:34 [Zakim]: Attendees were +49.251.280.aaaa
16:00:35 [Zakim]: HTML_WG()12:00PM has now started
16:00:40 [Zakim]: +Sam
16:01:19 [DanC]: Zakim, call DanC-work
16:01:19 [Zakim]: ok, DanC; the call is being made
16:01:20 [Zakim]: +DanC
16:02:07 [Zakim]: + +49.251.280.aaaa
16:02:07 [Zakim]: + +1.218.349.aabb
16:02:15 [Julian]: Zakim, +49.251.280.aaaa is me
16:02:15 [Zakim]: +Julian; got it
16:02:53 [Zakim]: +Matt_May
16:03:01 [Zakim]: +Masinter
16:04:04 [rubys]: 218.349 is Duluth, Minnesota... Laura?
16:05:03 [DanC]: regrets+ Doug_Schepers
16:05:40 [DanC]: Zakim, pick a scribe
16:05:40 [Zakim]: Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Matt_May
16:05:43 [rubys]: Zakim, aaaa is Laura Carlson
16:05:43 [Zakim]: I don't understand 'aaaa is Laura Carlson', rubys
16:06:01 [DanC]: Zakim, aaaa is Laura_Carlson
16:06:01 [Zakim]: sorry, DanC, I do not recognize a party named 'aaaa'
16:06:22 [DanC]: Zakim, pick a scribe
16:06:22 [Zakim]: Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Sam
16:06:24 [DanC]: Zakim, pick a scribe
16:06:24 [Zakim]: Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Julian
16:07:11 [Julian]: scribe: Julian
16:07:20 [Julian]: chair: rubys
16:07:42 [DanC]: Topic: ISSUE-54 (doctype-legacy-compat)
16:07:47 [Julian]: rubys: open issues issigned to lachlan; not responding
16:07:55 [Julian]: q+
16:08:28 [DanC]: action-103?
16:08:28 [trackbot]: ACTION-103 -- Lachlan Hunt to register about: URI scheme -- due 2009-04-09 -- OPEN
16:08:28 [trackbot]: http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/103
16:08:29 [pimpbot]: Title: ACTION-103 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)
16:08:40 [Laura]: Laura has joined #html-wg
16:09:01 [Julian]: julian: joseph holsten tried to update the draft but apparently had trouble getting the draft submitted
16:10:41 [DanC]: action-103?
16:10:41 [trackbot]: ACTION-103 -- Julian Reschke to register about: URI scheme -- due 2009-05-21 -- OPEN
16:10:41 [trackbot]: http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/103
16:10:43 [pimpbot]: Title: ACTION-103 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)
16:11:15 [DanC]: Topic: ISSUE-55 (head-profile)
16:11:18 [Julian]: julian: new draft seems to normatively reference HML5 which may be a problem.
16:11:18 [DanC]: aciton-99?
16:11:20 [masinter`]: concern if the document is going in the wrong direction on about: scheme
16:11:30 [Julian]: action-99?
16:11:30 [trackbot]: ACTION-99 -- Sam Ruby to review @profile -- due 2009-04-30 -- OPEN
16:11:30 [trackbot]: http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/99
16:11:31 [pimpbot]: Title: ACTION-99 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)
16:11:39 [Julian]: q+
16:12:02 [Julian]: TOPIC: @profile
16:12:51 [DanC]: "scheme" attribute of META element Chabot, Elliot (Wednesday, 6 May) http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-comments/2009May/0009.html
16:12:52 [pimpbot]: Title: "scheme" attribute of META element from Chabot, Elliot on 2009-05-06 (public-html-comments@w3.org from May 2009) (at lists.w3.org)
16:14:02 [DanC]: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2009Apr/0208.html
16:14:04 [pimpbot]: Title: Please review use cases relating to embedding micro-data in text/html from Ian Hickson on 2009-04-23 (public-html@w3.org from April 2009) (at lists.w3.org)
16:14:04 [Julian]: Julian: toding some work on @profile with leif, currently waiting for Hixie's proposal on microdata
16:14:14 [Julian]: s/toding/doing/
16:14:31 [DanC]: issue-55: note summary of micro-data http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2009Apr/0208.html
16:14:31 [trackbot]: ISSUE-55 head/@profile missing, but used in other specifications/formats notes added
16:14:32 [pimpbot]: Title: Please review use cases relating to embedding micro-data in text/html from Ian Hickson on 2009-04-23 (public-html@w3.org from April 2009) (at lists.w3.org)
16:14:37 [dsinger]: dsinger has joined #html-wg
16:15:10 [Julian]: q+
16:15:35 [Julian]: DanC: same issue as microdata?
16:15:38 [Zakim]: +dsinger
16:16:02 [DanC]: action-99?
16:16:02 [trackbot]: ACTION-99 -- Sam Ruby to review @profile -- due 2009-04-30 -- OPEN
16:16:02 [trackbot]: http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/99
16:16:06 [DanC]: action-99 due next week
16:16:06 [trackbot]: ACTION-99 Review @profile due date now next week
16:16:20 [Zakim]: +Cynthia_Shelly
16:16:32 [DanC]: q+ to ask what RDFa stuff was supposed to be done?
16:16:34 [Julian]: rubys: push date forward to next week
16:17:03 [Julian]: rubys: waiting for Hixie's microdate feedback
16:17:10 [MikeSmith]: Zakim, call Mike
16:17:10 [Zakim]: ok, MikeSmith; the call is being made
16:17:11 [Zakim]: +Mike
16:17:17 [DanC]: ack danc
16:17:17 [Zakim]: DanC, you wanted to ask what RDFa stuff was supposed to be done?
16:17:28 [Julian]: q-
16:17:52 [Julian]: action-96?
16:17:52 [trackbot]: ACTION-96 -- Henri Sivonen to to ensure editor removes Origin header: from spec -- due 2009-05-06 -- OPEN
16:17:52 [trackbot]: http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/96
16:17:56 [DanC]: Topic: ISSUE-63 (origin-req-scope)
16:18:22 [Julian]: rubys: Henri not available
16:18:30 [DanC]: ACTION-96?
16:18:30 [trackbot]: ACTION-96 -- Henri Sivonen to to ensure editor removes Origin header: from spec -- due 2009-05-06 -- OPEN
16:18:30 [trackbot]: http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/96
16:19:11 [Julian]: masinter: there was discussion on HTTP-WG mailing list whether Referer could be used instead
16:19:17 [DanC]: . http://esw.w3.org/topic/IETF_HTML5_Meeting_March_2009?highlight=(ietf)
16:19:20 [Julian]: rubys: no new information since SFO IETF meeting
16:19:34 [DanC]: "# Browser vendors are highly skeptical that that will be sufficient
16:19:34 [DanC]: # Action Item: MNot to send a pointer to prior discussion "
16:20:17 [DanC]: Sam: I think mnot did that
16:20:30 [Julian]: danc: nobody owns the ball right now
16:20:51 [Julian]: rubys: Henri should own it
16:21:09 [Julian]: MikeSmith: Henri is traveling
16:21:22 [Julian]: rubys: move to next week
16:21:23 [DanC]: action-96 due next week
16:21:23 [trackbot]: ACTION-96 to ensure editor removes Origin header: from spec due date now next week
16:21:42 [Julian]: TOPIC: versioning
16:21:54 [Julian]: masinter: discussion ongoing in TAG
16:22:24 [DanC]: ACTION-108 due 7 June
16:22:24 [trackbot]: ACTION-108 Report back on the TAG's work on versioning wrt HTML due date now 7 June
16:22:25 [Julian]: danc: proposal to move by one month
16:22:48 [Julian]: s/by one/by two/
16:22:54 [masinter`]: www-tag Versioning and HTML
16:23:10 [Julian]: issue-31?
16:23:10 [trackbot]: ISSUE-31 -- What to do when a reasonable text equivalent is unknown/unavailable? -- OPEN
16:23:10 [trackbot]: http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/31
16:23:15 [Julian]: topic: missing alt
16:23:22 [DanC]: q+
16:23:42 [LeifHS]: LeifHS has joined #html-wg
16:24:24 [Julian]: danc: update due dates before telco if there are no news
16:24:27 [Zakim]: -Matt_May
16:24:43 [Julian]: issue-56?
16:24:43 [trackbot]: ISSUE-56 -- Assess whether "URLs" section/definition conflicts with Web architecture -- OPEN
16:24:43 [trackbot]: http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/56
16:24:49 [Julian]: topic: URLs
16:25:02 [Julian]: danc: done with formatting
16:25:14 [Julian]: danc: done with reformatting
16:25:32 [Julian]: danc: next step submit as I-D
16:26:06 [Julian]: danc: is the WG interested in when to submit it?
16:26:32 [Julian]: masinter: the WG isn't needed for the decision
16:26:53 [krijnh]: krijnh has joined #html-wg
16:26:57 [Julian]: danc: there was discussion in www-tag
16:27:13 [Julian]: danc: which mailing list?
16:27:21 [masinter`]: Proposal in www-tag to merge with IRI document. Proposal to continue to discuss on uri@w3.org
16:27:24 [Julian]: danc: uri mailing list
16:27:35 [DanC]: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2009Apr/0081.html
16:27:47 [Julian]: danc: HT summarized what documents are out there
16:28:03 [Julian]: danc: encoding problem in query parameters
16:28:10 [Julian]: q+
16:28:17 [masinter`]: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2009May/0001.html
16:28:22 [DanC]: Martin's reply discusses the non-western search engine use case http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2009May/0000.html
16:28:47 [Julian]: q+ to say we should decide once for all where to discuss this, and make sure Martin D. is there as well
16:29:01 [DanC]: oops... 0001 is the one I meant
16:29:15 [DanC]: I expect discussion to converge on uri@w3.org
16:29:25 [DanC]: ... though I'm not sure how to get browser vendors there.
16:29:28 [DanC]: ack danc
16:29:34 [Julian]: q-
16:29:39 [MikeSmith]: Zakim, mute Mike
16:29:39 [Zakim]: Mike should now be muted
16:30:02 [rubys]: action dan: submit id for URLs in HTML 5
16:30:03 [trackbot]: Created ACTION-121 - Submit id for URLs in HTML 5 [on Dan Connolly - due 2009-05-14].
16:30:24 [Julian]: topic: decentralized ext.
16:30:30 [Julian]: issue-41?
16:30:30 [trackbot]: ISSUE-41 -- Decentralized extensibility -- OPEN
16:30:30 [trackbot]: http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/41
16:30:35 [Julian]: rubys: chris not here
16:30:43 [masinter`]: DanC if you want help editing IRI documents, please let me know I am willing to do technical editing work
16:30:52 [Julian]: topic: aria taskforce
16:31:04 [DanC]: 114 should be connected to an aria issue... fixing...
16:31:10 [Julian]: action-114?
16:31:10 [trackbot]: ACTION-114 -- Cynthia Shelly to report progress on ARIA TF -- due 2009-05-07 -- OPEN
16:31:10 [trackbot]: http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/114
16:31:15 [DanC]: good to know, masinter; I'll try to call you
16:32:01 [DanC]: Topic: ISSUE-35 (aria-processing)
16:32:48 [DanC]: ACTION-105 ?
16:32:48 [trackbot]: ACTION-105 -- Sam Ruby to should arrange a meeting between chairs of HTML WG and XHTML2 WG to ensure there is a plan for coordination of vocabularies to avoid incompatibilities. -- due 2009-04-30 -- OPEN
16:32:48 [trackbot]: http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/105
16:33:00 [Julian]: topic: HTML/XHTML WG relation
16:33:27 [DanC]: ACTION-105 due next week
16:33:27 [trackbot]: ACTION-105 Should arrange a meeting between chairs of HTML WG and XHTML2 WG to ensure there is a plan for coordination of vocabularies to avoid incompatibilities. due date now next week
16:33:34 [Julian]: rubys: plh currently not interested discussing merging
16:33:40 [Julian]: masinter: why is RDFa relevant?
16:34:05 [DanC]: ACTION-114 due 21 May
16:34:05 [trackbot]: ACTION-114 Report progress on ARIA TF due date now 21 May
16:34:07 [Julian]: rubys: if *HTML would be merged, we'd have to figure out what to do with RDFa
16:34:23 [DanC]: q+
16:34:39 [Julian]: masinter: what's the criterium for resolving this?
16:34:48 [krijnh]: krijnh has joined #html-wg
16:35:00 [Julian]: danc: merged group would need to take XHTML requirements seriusly
16:35:15 [Julian]: s/seriusly/seriously/
16:35:39 [Julian]: masinter: some requirements are common, others ...
16:36:08 [dsinger]: q+
16:36:17 [Julian]: rubys: we will now soon whether the requirements ARE taken seriously
16:36:29 [Julian]: s(now/know/
16:36:33 [Julian]: s/now/know/
16:36:43 [DanC]: s/know/have some good data/
16:36:54 [Julian]: masinter: disposition of comments on public-html-comments
16:37:01 [Julian]: masinter: are these tracked?
16:37:15 [DanC]: . http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-comments/
16:37:17 [Julian]: danc: we let them accumulate
16:37:31 [Julian]: rubys: do we need an issue tracker?
16:37:45 [Julian]: danc: anybody can respond
16:38:04 [Julian]: danc: tracking gets more important when we get to the end
16:38:14 [Julian]: rubys: Hickson is reading all of them
16:38:14 [dsinger]: q?
16:38:27 [DanC]: (process calls for timely technical response? really?)
16:38:29 [Julian]: masinter: issues with Ian's process
16:38:41 [masinter`]: Shelley's comments
16:38:46 [Julian]: masinter: ...schedule-wise...
16:38:58 [Julian]: rubys: can accelerate for specific issues
16:39:09 [DanC]: "The group SHOULD reply to a reviewer's initial comments in a timely manner." -- http://www.w3.org/2005/10/Process-20051014/policies.html#formal-address
16:39:37 [Julian]: danc: we could do better
16:40:42 [MikeSmith]: Zakim, unmute Mike
16:40:42 [Zakim]: Mike should no longer be muted
16:40:44 [Julian]: danc: discussion of "uahtor" stylesheet
16:40:52 [Julian]: s/uathor/author/
16:42:01 [Julian]: Matt: groups take each other seriously, but disagree on what is important
16:42:13 [dsinger]: q-
16:42:16 [MikeSmith]: q+ to say that Hixie's mechanism for displaying author-only view of draft does work as expected (in browsers that support user stylesheet switching)
16:42:39 [Julian]: masinter: need priorization of requirements
16:44:10 [DanC]: ack next
16:44:24 [Julian]: masinter: can agree on technical solutions even when disgagreeing on ther things
16:44:26 [DanC]: ack next
16:44:27 [Zakim]: MikeSmith, you wanted to say that Hixie's mechanism for displaying author-only view of draft does work as expected (in browsers that support user stylesheet switching)
16:45:42 [DanC]: http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/Overview.html
16:46:32 [Julian]: MikeSmith: user stylesheet should work in W3C version of the spec as well
16:46:35 [DanC]: i can't get it to work at http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/
16:47:06 [rubys]: action mike to make author guide user stylesheet work with the W3C version of the spec as well
16:47:07 [trackbot]: Created ACTION-122 - Make author guide user stylesheet work with the W3C version of the spec as well [on Michael(tm) Smith - due 2009-05-14].
16:47:13 [MikeSmith]: it works in Minefield and Opera for me
16:48:03 [krijnh]: krijnh has joined #html-wg
16:48:34 [Julian]: works for me in W3C copy
16:48:44 [Zakim]: -Mike
16:49:20 [DanC]: close ACTION-118
16:49:20 [trackbot]: ACTION-118 Reformat the document on URLs in HTML 5 as an Internet Draft closed
16:50:03 [Julian]: topic: F2F 2009
16:50:16 [DanC]: ACTION-115?
16:50:16 [trackbot]: ACTION-115 -- Michael(tm) Smith to set up WBS for HTML WG participants to @@ reTPAC 2009 -- due 2009-05-28 -- OPEN
16:50:16 [trackbot]: http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/115
16:51:24 [Julian]: danc: if the meeting is criticial we should make sure administrivia are taken care of
16:51:32 [Zakim]: -Masinter
16:51:33 [Zakim]: -dsinger
16:51:34 [Zakim]: -DanC
16:51:35 [Zakim]: -Julian
16:51:36 [Zakim]: -Sam
16:51:46 [Zakim]: -Cynthia_Shelly
16:51:48 [Zakim]: - +1.218.349.aabb
16:51:50 [Zakim]: HTML_WG()12:00PM has ended
16:51:51 [Zakim]: Attendees were Sam, DanC, +1.218.349.aabb, Julian, Matt_May, Masinter, dsinger, Cynthia_Shelly, Mike
16:52:10 [Julian]: rrsagent, generate minutes
16:52:10 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/05/07-html-wg-minutes.html Julian
16:52:33 [billyjackass]: billyjackass has joined #html-wg
16:52:39 [Laura]: Laura is 349.aabb
16:53:10 [billyjackass]: Zakim, call Mike
16:53:10 [Zakim]: ok, billyjackass; the call is being made
16:53:11 [Zakim]: HTML_WG()12:00PM has now started
16:53:12 [Zakim]: +Mike
16:53:27 [billyjackass]: RRSAgent, make minutes
16:53:27 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/05/07-html-wg-minutes.html billyjackass
16:53:40 [Julian]: s/issigned/assigned/
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16:53:55 [Laura]: +Laura_Carlson
16:54:27 [Julian]: s/two month/two months/
16:55:19 [billyjackass]: action-122 comment: it already works in the W3C version as well
16:55:22 [Julian]: s/will now soon/will know soon/
16:55:29 [billyjackass]: comment action-122: it already works in the W3C version as well
16:55:47 [Julian]: s/uahtor/author/
16:56:01 [Julian]: rrsagent, generate minutes
16:56:01 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/05/07-html-wg-minutes.html Julian
16:56:17 [Zakim]: -Mike
16:56:19 [Zakim]: HTML_WG()12:00PM has ended
16:56:19 [Zakim]: Attendees were Mike
16:57:10 [Philip]: rubys: "Hickson is reading all of them" [presumably mails on public-html-comments] - I believe he's stated that he's been told Bugzilla is the only place he's required to track issues, and there's no such requirement on messages on the HTML WG mailing lists
16:57:45 [Philip]: (though he reads them anyway because they're a useful source of feedback, but not with any obligation to respond)
16:57:53 [DanC]: Julian, what does "can't read "value": no such variable around input line 60" mean?
16:58:06 [DanC]: that's what I get when I submit my .xml to http://xml.resource.org/cgi-bin/xml2rfc.cgi
16:58:40 [MikeSmith]: trackbot, help
16:58:40 [trackbot]: See http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc for help
16:58:45 [masinter`]: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-archive/2009May/0005.html
16:58:57 [Julian]: send me the source and I'll check
16:59:33 [DanC]: source is http://www.w3.org/html/wg/href/draft-ietf.xml
16:59:41 [masinter`]: and http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-archive/2009May/0006.html
16:59:41 [MikeSmith]: trackbot, comment action-122 The author view already works in the W3C version as well.
16:59:41 [trackbot]: ACTION-122 Make author guide user stylesheet work with the W3C version of the spec as well notes added
16:59:43 [DanC]: I wonder if it means "href doesn't resolve"
16:59:58 [MikeSmith]: trackbot, close action-122
16:59:58 [trackbot]: ACTION-122 Make author guide user stylesheet work with the W3C version of the spec as well closed
16:59:59 [DanC]: when MSM extracted this section from the HTML 5 draft, he didn't deal with all the resulting broken links
17:00:02 [Julian]: xref, potentially
17:00:25 [Julian]: have you seen the warnings from rfc2629.xslt on top of the page?
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17:51:48 [MikeSmith]: @changes
17:51:49 [pimpbot]: MikeSmith: Huh?
17:51:58 [MikeSmith]: @planet
17:51:58 [pimpbot]: MikeSmith: Huh?
17:52:05 [MikeSmith]: great
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