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11:30:00 <ericP> zakim, this will be hcls
11:30:00 <Zakim> I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, ericP
11:30:19 <ericP> what's wrong with showing a little initiative?
12:55:12 <mattCorkum> mattCorkum has joined #hcls
12:55:29 <mattCorkum> morning...
12:57:09 <david_newman> david_newman has joined #HCLS
13:00:25 <Jun> Jun has joined #hcls
13:02:06 <HelenaDeus> HelenaDeus has joined #hcls
13:04:01 <ericP> Zakim, this is hcls
13:04:01 <Zakim> ok, ericP; that matches SW_HCLS(F2F)
13:04:06 <ericP> Zakim, who is here?
13:04:06 <Zakim> On the phone I see MIT-Star, +0196266aaaa, ??P9, +1.508.435.aabb, +0186528aacc, +1.978.264.aadd
13:04:08 <Zakim> On IRC I see HelenaDeus, Jun, david_newman, mattCorkum, RRSAgent, Zakim, Cloud, ericP
13:04:37 <Jun> zakim, +0186528aacc, is Jun
13:04:37 <Zakim> sorry, Jun, I do not recognize a party named '+0186528aacc,'
13:04:57 <david_newman> ericP: I may appear to be on a different number today as I am in a different location
13:04:59 <marco> marco has joined #HCLS
13:05:02 <JoanneLuciano> JoanneLuciano has joined #hcls
13:05:12 <mattCorkum> morning Joanne...
13:05:14 <Jun> zakim, +0186528aacc is Jun
13:05:14 <Zakim> +Jun; got it
13:05:17 <HelenaDeus> I am on the phone, but my nr should something like 713563....
13:05:50 <mattCorkum> are there slides that can be shared here to see what David is talking about right now?
13:05:54 <Zakim> +??P14
13:06:16 <ericP> hi folks on the bridge, i'll have slides for you in a moment
13:06:27 <mattCorkum> ty
13:06:35 <mscottm> mscottm has joined #hcls
13:06:36 <Jun> thanks
13:07:06 <Susie> Susie has joined #hcls
13:09:03 <ericP> -> http://esw.w3.org/topic/HCLSIG/Meetings/2009-04-30_F2F?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=myExpHCLS.ppt MyExperiment slides
13:09:28 <ericP> ericP has changed the topic to: MyExperiment presentation: http://esw.w3.org/topic/HCLSIG/Meetings/2009-04-30_F2F?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=myExpHCLS.ppt
13:10:14 <ericP> [slide 8: my experiment]
13:11:10 <Jun> thx eric!
13:13:25 <ericP> [slide 10: myExperiement Features]
13:13:36 <ericP> quite welcome
13:14:39 <ericP> [slide 11: (workflow diagram)
13:15:24 <ericP> [slide 12: Control over sharing]
13:16:13 <ericP> [slide 13: A Pack]
13:17:31 <ericP> [slide 15]
13:17:53 <ericP> [slide 16: (Workflows screen shot)]
13:19:41 <ericP> [slide 18: (Workflows screen shot for Adam Belloum)]
13:20:11 <ericP> [slide 21: Google Gadgets]
13:20:52 <ericP> [slide 23: Facebook]
13:21:30 <ericP> [slide 24: HPC/NA]
13:22:17 <mattCorkum> thanks Eric...this helps to track David..
13:22:35 <ericP> [slide 25 (lots of numbers + two buids)]
13:22:51 <ericP> scribenick: ericP
13:23:14 <ericP> [slide 26: Analysis]
13:25:55 <ericP> [video]
13:26:11 <ericP> not uploaded, sorry
13:26:19 <ericP> (well, that i know of)
13:26:37 <marco> is there a link for the video?
13:27:05 <Zakim> - +1.978.264.aadd
13:27:07 <marco> marco has left #HCLS
13:27:15 <marco> marco has joined #HCLS
13:27:49 <ericP> marco, i don't have a link
13:27:58 <ericP> perhaps i can get it to you later
13:28:24 <ericP> grab some coffee and delete spam for a few minutes
13:31:36 <ericP> [slide 28]
13:32:51 <ericP> dave deroure: we count as a success that this image does not have MyExperiment in the middle
13:33:08 <ericP> [slide 29: For Developers]
13:33:30 <ericP> (everal builds)
13:35:10 <ericP> [slide 29 build: (XML, facebook, iGoogle...) ]
13:35:39 <ericP> [slide 29 build: (RDF Store) ]
13:36:12 <Jun> are there different content in the RDF store and the mySQL store?
13:36:31 <ericP> dave deroure: the SPARQL endpoint promoted a migration from API to SPARQL
13:36:49 <Jun> thanks eric. :)
13:37:35 <sbocconi> sbocconi has joined #hcls
13:37:56 <ericP> ... there was a script migrating data between the box and the RDF Store
13:38:03 <ericP> ... now much more intimate
13:38:33 <dbooth> dbooth has joined #hcls
13:38:46 <Jun> now has a clean myExperiment ontology
13:39:11 <mattCorkum> where does this exist? Is there a URI to look at?
13:39:11 <ericP> TimC: we started with a triple store and it was an impediment to agile development
13:39:40 <ericP> [slide 30: SPARQL endpoint]
13:40:09 <Jun> http://rdf.myexperiment.org/ontology#
13:40:16 <mattCorkum> ty Jun
13:40:20 <ericP> mattCorkum, there's link from the f2f page's myexperiment icon
13:40:25 <Jun> it's in page 30
13:40:49 <ericP> [slide 32: Exporting packs]
13:42:01 <ericP> [slide 33: The Provenance of Electoronic Data]
13:45:15 <ericP> [slide 34: Phase 2]
13:48:06 <ericP> [slide 35: Reuse and Symbiosis]
13:49:19 <ericP> [slide 36: Software Design...]
13:51:10 <ericP> [slide 37: Six Principles...]
13:52:14 <ericP> [slide 39: e-Laboratory lifecycle]
13:54:38 <ericP> [slide 41: e-Labs]
13:55:26 <ericP> [slide 42: e-Labs + Research Objects]
13:57:12 <ericP> [slide 44: Assembling e-Laboratories]
13:59:09 <Jun> I am going to let David know that his name is presented here, and he regreted for not being able to be here.
13:59:19 <ericP> [slide 46]
14:00:16 <ericP> [slide 48: onto swan-sioc diagram]
14:01:17 <ericP> [slide 49: Characcteristics of a Research Object]
14:03:41 <ericP> [slide 50: Thoughts]
14:06:25 <ericP> Julia (AZ): do you see a way to help users navigate
14:06:48 <ericP> ... with more than ontologies, maybe with ebusiness rules
14:07:04 <ericP> dave deroure: yes, that's exactly what *we8 do
14:07:17 <ericP> ... we have a cookbook which we follow
14:07:36 <ericP> carol: obesity egroup, has social-survey data linked to clinical data
14:07:53 <ericP> ... and it has policies makers doing stats over it
14:08:29 <ericP> ... we control the parms to make sure it meets the interpretation sense of the survey data
14:09:10 <ericP> ... spreadsheets, sysmo uses email and spreadsheets
14:09:22 <ericP> ... so adding spreadsheet support
14:09:49 <Zakim> -??P9
14:12:35 <ericP> ericP: do you end of writing tons of XSTL?
14:13:20 <ericP> carol: (re taverna) yes, tried a cool systems from steve harris which described the RDF mapping, but couldn't hand to users
14:13:43 <ericP> mscottm: would like to impose my own semantic types on the inputs and outputs
14:14:16 <ericP> carol: jacob from pl is coming to work on this
14:15:24 <ericP> francois: re: ericP's suggestion, i hate writing xslt, but have imposed that my taverna workflows return RDF
14:16:35 <ericP> ... encourage web services to provide RDF results
14:17:17 <ericP> dave boot: i written related stuff, google "RDF SOA"
14:17:32 <dbooth> Google rdf and soa: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=rdf+soa
14:17:59 <dbooth> s/dave boot/david booth/
14:18:17 <ericP> becky: have worked with large co's who usually use visio
14:18:58 <ericP> johnM: interested in the user's desire for privacy
14:19:27 <ericP> ... in the medical realm, we have concearns about both privacy *and* non-repudiation
14:20:32 <ericP> carol: manchester serial killer (over 300) was caught by non-repudiation mechanisms
14:20:42 <Zakim> -??P14
14:20:43 <Zakim> -Jun
14:20:49 <Zakim> - +0196266aaaa
14:21:44 <Zakim> - +1.508.435.aabb
14:39:17 <Zakim> +??P0
14:54:28 <Susie> Scott presents some strategy slides
14:54:37 <Susie> Scott highlights work undertaken to date
14:55:34 <Susie> Recaps technology trends from yesterday
14:55:45 <ericP> scribenick: Susie
14:57:31 <Susie> Requests use cases relating to translational medicine
14:58:48 <Susie> Link data from molecular biology to compounds
15:00:04 <ericP> apologies for temporarily breaking the F2F page
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15:01:30 <Zakim> +Jun
15:01:46 <Susie> Harold Solbrig, Mayo - bridge between rapidly moving web technologies and health care 
15:01:55 <Susie> This is a service we don't find elsewhere
15:02:07 <Susie> Show how tools can be used for interesting solutions
15:02:23 <ericP> Olivier Bodenrieder (NLM): i think xlational med is the ultimate use case
15:03:18 <ericP> ... quoting butte: "yes we can" meaning that is bioinformatisits, we can have to tools to make the discoveries ourselves
15:04:07 <ericP> @@@1: am cuirous about integrating @@@2 systems
15:04:27 <ericP> ... working with NCI and NCBI, competing with tim
15:04:36 <ericP> ... would be good to ineract with other systems
15:04:49 <Susie> Vassil, Ontotext
15:05:36 <Susie> Focus on use cases that are difficult to implement with existing technology
15:06:10 <Susie> This typically requires more complex use cases
15:06:28 <ericP> François Belleau (Bio2RDF): seen new SPARQL endpoints this year
15:06:39 <ericP> ... we should try to connect those things
15:06:48 <ericP> ... we don't need two versions of uniprot dumps
15:07:06 <ericP> ... need to do the dirty job of converting to RDF and agree on the correct source
15:07:46 <ericP> ... we'll be in a position to encourage the provider to adopt the RDF service
15:08:13 <Susie> Oliver R, Virtual Cell Team, UCT Health Center
15:08:21 <Susie> Hear 2 ends of spectrum
15:08:35 <Susie> Take lots of data and measure success by number of triples
15:08:54 <Susie> Other is the grand unification of ontologies
15:09:06 <Susie> Like to see something in between
15:09:14 <Susie> Take narrow domain and solve it well
15:09:26 <Susie> For example, pathways
15:09:44 <Susie> Developed BioPAX level 2 a while back and it's heavily used
15:10:00 <Susie> Weaknesses are documented, but not fixed
15:10:12 <Susie> It's a cultural/social issue, not technical issue
15:10:44 <marco> q
15:11:28 <Susie> Elgar Pichler (AZ)
15:11:52 <ericP> Elgar Pichler (AstraZeneca): would like a recipe book of how to build models and use tools
15:12:19 <ericP> ... there are several components. how do we move between these components?
15:12:31 <ericP> ... e.g. how do i convert datasource X to RDF?
15:12:36 <marco> q+
15:13:16 <Susie> Bosse Andersson (AZ) wants examples from Elgar's cookbook
15:13:18 <Jun> we talked about the same thing about 'cookbook' in the bof of linkeddata at www2009
15:13:51 <Susie> translational medicine is a good area to focus on
15:14:00 <Susie> don't think we should focus on too narrow an area
15:14:05 <Susie> networking is important
15:14:19 <ericP> Eric (BioInformatics):
15:14:28 <Susie> Erick from IO Informatics
15:14:38 <ericP> ... we've done some use cases with merging dbs
15:14:56 <ericP> ... when you get to medical data, need include access rights
15:15:24 <ericP> ... has been mostly under the carpet because everyone wants to connect everything
15:16:17 <Susie> Zak Rhodes (IO INformatics) demonstrate value of what SemWeb can do
15:16:25 <ericP> michel Dumontier: impressed by this community of diverse experts
15:16:53 <ericP> ... am generally bored by other meetings. interesetd here because of folks' experience
15:17:10 <ericP> ... we could produce [Elgar's] cookbooks
15:17:22 <ericP> ... could show how to triplify, and even find the resources
15:17:53 <ericP> ... could make a community which would allow folks to sign up for particular [triplification] and others to find them
15:18:16 <ericP> ... cookbooks need to include provenance, but also data description for discovery
15:18:24 <ericP> ... how do we get tools onto the web
15:18:38 <ericP> ... need publication to be a box in a workflow
15:19:04 <Susie> Carole Goble (U Manchester) - builds software systems for LS
15:19:09 <Susie> Agrees with Michel
15:19:21 <Susie> Often hampered by nearly ready software, which isn't ready enough
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15:19:35 <Susie> Want key services that would make big difference to users
15:19:38 <Susie> Not rocket science
15:19:50 <Susie> Typiclly little things can make the difference
15:20:05 <Susie> What are the 5 things we need as infrastructure, service or technics
15:20:19 <Susie> really need success stories to convince people
15:20:34 <Susie> has anyone made a scientific discovery yet using this?
15:20:38 <Susie> This is really needed
15:20:43 <Susie> Harness our knowledge
15:20:55 <Susie> Ontly need one success story in order to make a difference
15:21:13 <ericP> Sefano Bakoni:
15:21:35 <ericP> ... focus on use case, produce cookbooks, but feedback the acquired experience
15:21:48 <ericP> ... allow folks to do a cost/benifit analysis
15:21:56 <Zakim> -Jun
15:22:08 <ericP> ... bring it up to the modeling level and the standardization level
15:22:36 <Susie> Tim Clark (Harvard and MGH) - what Carole said!  
15:22:55 <Susie> Need to transition from hand waving as to why this is of benefit to scientists
15:23:05 <Susie> How many people have enabled a scientist to make a discovery
15:23:36 <Susie> 'The simplest thing that can possibly work'
15:23:44 <Susie> 'Help scientists'
15:23:48 <Susie> 'What actually works'
15:23:56 <ericP> Carl Taswell: spoke yesterday about portal doors
15:24:15 <ericP> ... in response to timC, i'm a scientist and my motivation is for myself
15:25:15 <ericP> ... i think this group should be an intermediary between the [general] hcls world and the individuals
15:25:40 <ericP> ... is the hcls community happy with the latest revision of e.g. owl, sparql
15:26:42 <ericP> ... the hclsig should provide a route for feedback
15:27:30 <Susie> Trish (NCBO) - 1 of 7 funded biomedical centers 
15:27:35 <Susie> Some overlap with HCLS
15:27:48 <Susie> Foster more communication between the groups
15:28:08 <ericP> tim roxford (face forward): lurker here
15:28:45 <ericP> ... folks here seem to believe that semantics help get to the right abstration level
15:28:55 <ericP> ... would lay out a landscape of the stakeholder
15:29:07 <ericP> ... you typically have to drill deeply into use cases
15:29:21 <ericP> ... hard to find which ones will give you traction
15:29:30 <ericP> ... the map will help you find the low-hanging fruit
15:30:36 <Susie> Becky Rhone (Independent Consultant) - external folks aren't getting what we're producing
15:30:54 <Susie> Should I create my own RDF, or re-use RDF
15:30:59 <Susie> Was focused on use case
15:31:08 <Susie> But laying out ecosystem could be very import
15:31:14 <Susie> Need 3 tiers of use cases
15:31:28 <Susie> Techie, to middle layer, to blue sky
15:31:47 <ericP> Dave How (NCI chemical informatics): i work on the core grid
15:32:05 <ericP> ... to allow scientists to share data and discovery
15:32:18 <ericP> ... we are seeing folks populate web services with good data
15:32:48 <ericP> ... but need a way scientists to answer questions like the pharma ontology questions, so easily that it's even intuitive
15:33:15 <ericP> ... that would be a compelling case for us to wrap model driven services with SPARQL endpoints
15:33:47 <Susie> Helen Chen (AGFA) - minority as I'm in the trench - very scientifically focused
15:33:58 <Susie> We have lots of data
15:34:26 <Susie> Always want use case and prototype
15:34:35 <Susie> Involvement for 10 years
15:34:42 <Susie> Sold idea to a production group
15:34:56 <Susie> EricP made that piece of software
15:35:03 <Susie> Need industrial strength tools
15:35:11 <Susie> Need one success story
15:36:26 <Susie> Mapping is hard and manual
15:36:41 <Susie> How do you visualize and validate mapping
15:36:57 <Susie> Want to push for this for the remaining 2 years
15:37:20 <ericP> Julia Kozlovsky (AstraZeneca): we should share our stuff
15:37:31 <ericP> ... could put all our stuff in MyExperiment
15:37:38 <ericP> ... if we do have workflows, we can formalize them
15:38:23 <ericP> ... i think health care providers and academics are solving different problems
15:38:37 <ericP> ... would like to see some coallescing
15:38:58 <ericP> ... would like specific tools for influencing pharma
15:39:52 <Susie> Paolo C (Harvard, MGH) - cookbooks are very important
15:40:01 <Susie> Lots of tacit knowledge in HCLS
15:40:23 <Susie> Hope integration between task forces will proceed better in the future
15:40:24 <ericP> JohnMadden (Duke):
15:40:34 <ericP> ... agree with folks who wnat stuff now, but...
15:40:58 <ericP> ... in semweb for clinical medicine, we need privacy, security, accountability
15:41:32 <ericP> ... privacy currently silo'd in relDBs
15:42:04 <ericP> ... how you get unstructured or semistructured data into RDF (without curation)
15:42:48 <Susie> Joanne Luciano (Mitre) - excited by what I see, but also frustrated
15:42:56 <Susie> Haven't got as far as I had hoped
15:43:18 <Susie> Like to see a visual and tool to assess what I can and can't do with existing tools
15:44:15 <mscottm> Zakim, who is on the phone?
15:44:15 <Zakim> On the phone I see MIT-Star, ??P0
15:44:17 <Susie> Easily see when we can easily exploit SemWeb
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15:45:48 <ericP> Marco: 2nd carol, timC and Becky's comment (as i'm a user)
15:46:05 <ericP> ... move beyond looking for ultimte demonstrator and instead to enablers
15:46:48 <ericP> ... there is interest in SW in bioinformatics in netherlands, but need demonstrators
15:47:41 <ericP> ... success would be when someone outside HCLS using SW
15:47:54 <ericP> Susie Stephens (Lilly): would like to see a vibrant community of participation
15:48:19 <ericP> ... the data is a continuum, though sometimes restricting to specialties is sometimes useful
15:48:30 <JoanneLuciano> adding my comments: addressing John Madden's concern about in-house data / privacy issues - make accessible how to use the semweb tools with in-house clinical data (if it must stay in-house)
15:48:32 <ericP> ... real win is when a scientist uses SW and makes a discovery
15:48:56 <ericP> ... identity seems to be a sweet spot for many folks and we're not doing it at the moment
15:49:04 <Solbrig> Solbrig has joined #hcls
15:49:36 <ericP> ... how can an identify system manage differntn perona
15:49:44 <ericP> ericP graph patterns for query, policy, security and discovery/federation
15:49:49 <JoanneLuciano> want a roadmap or a graph with bits colored in, indicating status
15:49:59 <Susie> EricP (W3C) continue to use graph patterns for everything
15:50:32 <ericP> dave De Roure: the comminity is motivated to do important stuff
15:50:40 <ericP> ... need more modest pieces
15:50:40 <JoanneLuciano> want something that tells me - if I am asking this type of question, then i need to use this technology - and includes how to use it
15:50:56 <ericP> ... they demonstrate best practice
15:51:01 <JoanneLuciano> must be kept simple for the user.
15:51:03 <ericP> ... what's the best example of linked data?
15:51:24 <Susie> Maryann Martone (UCSD) asking people to document successes
15:51:44 <Susie> metrics for success are also needed
15:51:51 <Susie> Models for interaction and harmonization
15:51:58 <Susie> Everyone has some funding
15:52:07 <Susie> Should be cooperative competition
15:52:11 <JoanneLuciano> maybe when we present the usecase include links that link to how that part of the use case was solved.
15:52:21 <Susie> Would like NIF to be involved
15:52:47 <Susie> Educational materials are still needed
15:52:52 <JoanneLuciano> Users need to know what kinds of questions we can answer and can't.  -- better communication
15:52:54 <Susie> Need to communicate some things better
15:52:55 <marco> on Scott's invitation: enabling: e.g. cookbook ok, workflow is better (others can try and change); enable 'routine' semantisizing; enable post-analysis across domains by people outside HCLS (whatever their use case)
15:54:02 <Susie> Gaps between communities and how they interact with digital tools
15:54:14 <dbooth> dbooth: 1. collaborative demos -- good vehicle for going forward, and good publicity. 2. recipes  3. privacy, security, accountability.
15:54:15 <Susie> Coudl be a good area for a task force
15:55:11 <Susie> Carole - success cases of adoption of semweb
15:55:19 <ericP> carol: could market stuff that need not come from hcls, which demon adoption of semweb
15:55:20 <Susie> Not necessarily work done by this group
15:55:31 <Susie> Should expose these people!
15:56:33 <ericP> susie: W3C has already collection of use cases and case studies
15:56:43 <ericP> ... it's not domain specific, but many are in hcls
15:56:49 <JoanneLuciano> I'm wondering if a use case that takes the same data and looks at it from an individual patient, a researcher, a clinician...
15:58:05 <ericP> harold: re: anything you can do in semweb, you can do better in rdb's (johnM), what about attacking the publication angle
15:58:27 <ericP> johnM: +1
15:58:57 <ericP> Scott Marshall: +1 to building on what you've got
15:59:08 <ericP> ... we have stuff that work well
15:59:14 <ericP> ... would like to build incrementally
16:00:42 <ericP> topic: demo of looking through LOD cloud with virtuoso
16:01:05 <marco> there is no link, is there?
16:01:14 <ericP> francois: virtoso had full-text search
16:01:41 <ericP> marco, sorry, can't read the URL from the screen
16:01:59 <ericP> should be short - will move on to integration
16:05:02 <ericP> topic: task integration
16:06:58 <Susie> Scott introduces some goals of task integration
16:07:43 <Susie> Highlights desire to share and find ontologies, terminologies, assertions, workflows, experts, etc.
16:08:40 <Susie> Oliver - pathways are a common link cross the tasks
16:09:15 <Susie> Becky - what do you mean by workflows?
16:10:17 <HelenaDeus> HelenaDeus has joined #hcls
16:10:21 <Zakim> +??P1
16:10:53 <marco> q+
16:13:03 <Susie> Tim - had lots of individual discussions
16:13:16 <Susie> Interested in annotating documents
16:13:23 <Susie> Build a framework for this
16:13:35 <Susie> Need standardized framework as to how these things are stored
16:13:45 <Susie> The missing piece is 'the experiment'
16:13:53 <Susie> But lets not model it too deeply
16:14:06 <Susie> Don't want to drill down into the level of MIAME
16:14:20 <Susie> Experiments let you collect data
16:15:15 <Susie> Marco - Would it be possible to create a simple, open components so I can connect a thesaurus of my choice
16:15:20 <Susie> Use this to link to other URIs
16:15:27 <Susie> Connect to eLab, myExperiment
16:15:36 <Susie> Tim - Sounds very possible
16:16:26 <Susie> Have to think about how the semantic world can add value to the web 2.0 world
16:16:37 <Susie> It should be obvious, but lets operationalize that
16:16:38 <marco> or the other way around?
16:17:24 <Susie> John - Want assertions 'that could use' ontologies or terminologies
16:17:32 <Susie> Not an essential prerequisite
16:18:18 <Susie> Scott - Terminology is key for integrating across tasks
16:22:44 <marco> I'm afraid I have to leave now. Thank you for a very good meeting, and Eric for scribing (a big help for remote people). Have a fruitful continuation!
16:23:29 <Zakim> -??P0
16:25:00 <colin> colin has joined #HCLS
16:35:22 <Zakim> -??P1
18:13:33 <mscottm> Video's of Eric's lectures: http://zookma.science.uva.nl/islatv/play.php?file=20080617_other_eric_2
18:13:33 <mscottm> http://zookma.science.uva.nl/islatv/play.php?file=20080617_other_eric_3 
18:34:57 <ericP> English:
18:34:57 <ericP>   ☑ is
18:34:57 <ericP>   ☑ is not
18:34:59 <ericP> a degenerate form of first order logic
18:35:19 <ericP> s/☑/☐/
18:37:13 <ericP> Zakim, who is here?
18:37:13 <Zakim> On the phone I see MIT-Star
18:37:14 <Zakim> On IRC I see vipul, dbooth, sbocconi, Susie, mscottm, RRSAgent, Zakim, Cloud, ericP
18:40:01 <Joanne> Joanne has joined #hcls
18:40:45 <Joanne> re: outreach... is there interest in a press release? What do we need to do in order to issue one?
19:19:40 <ericP> marianne: i never saw this conflict. when we can use a formal term, we use it
19:20:14 <ericP> ... there is neither 0 nore 100% agreement on a term like hippocampus
19:20:46 <ericP> ... it is not desirable to let folks invent new terms whenever they want
19:21:18 <ericP> ... current challenge is to differentiate the formal an informal
19:21:51 <ericP> ... i'd like to see us figure out when you need new URIs
19:24:01 <ericP> john madden:
19:24:12 <dbooth> fyi, paper about URI declarations: http://dbooth.org/2007/uri-decl/
19:24:28 <ericP> ... thinking about centralized onto markup in the wrong way
19:24:38 <ericP> ... i write a doc in e.g. .en
19:24:51 <ericP> ... i then chose to write it in a formal ont
19:25:07 <ericP> ... when you buy into an owl ont, you buy into a lot
19:25:20 <ericP> marianne: we do need a minimal subset
19:25:46 <ericP> john madden: when someone write something, that's their interpretation at the time
19:26:00 <ericP> marianne: we have lexical elements like words in a dictionary
19:26:23 <ericP> ... sometimes we recognize ambiguity, and we have structures for managing it
19:26:37 <ericP> ... i don't see why this is a problem
19:27:38 <ericP> ... for instance, when we talk about a ZZZ neuron, we agree on most of the attributes of the neuron
19:28:29 <ericP> michele: owl is nice if it flags inconsistencies to reveal our disagreements
19:29:20 <ericP> timC: it's not just a counter example which is a refinement, it's very different hypotheses
19:30:17 <ericP> john madden:
19:30:37 <ericP> ... .. 1. when you map to an ontology, you're commiting to that ontology
19:31:41 <ericP> ... .. 2. we need a way to give feedback to ontologies. do we need a formal way to track ontology inadequacies
19:32:22 <ericP> ... .. 3. sociocultural: when publishing an ontology, need pressure to publish a minimal set of mappings to other ontologies
19:35:25 <ericP> ... .. 4. RDF needs to be versionable (ontology for versioning ontologies/deprecation ?)
19:37:06 <ericP> topic: The UMLS and the Semantic Web [Olivier Bodenreider]
19:37:11 <dbooth> Related to versioning, l've written a bit about the URI lifecycle: http://dbooth.org/2009/lifecycle/  The write-up is still a little rough, so comments are welcome.
19:39:05 <ericP> Zakim, who is here?
19:39:05 <Zakim> On the phone I see MIT-Star
19:39:06 <Zakim> On IRC I see vipul, dbooth, sbocconi, Susie, mscottm, RRSAgent, Zakim, Cloud, ericP
20:26:47 <dbooth> rrsagent, where am i?
20:26:47 <RRSAgent> See http://www.w3.org/2009/05/01-hcls-irc#T20-26-47
20:41:29 <ericP> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
20:41:29 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/05/01-hcls-minutes.html ericP
20:41:37 <ericP> RRSAgent, please make log world-visible
20:42:21 <Zakim> -MIT-Star
20:42:22 <Zakim> SW_HCLS(F2F) has ended
20:42:23 <Zakim> Attendees were MIT-Star, +0196266aaaa, +1.508.435.aabb, +1.978.264.aadd, Jun