IRC log of egov on 2009-04-29

Timestamps are in UTC.

12:58:30 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #egov
12:58:30 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/04/29-egov-irc
12:58:32 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs public
12:58:32 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #egov
12:58:34 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be EGOV
12:58:34 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot, I see T&S_EGOV()9:00AM already started
12:58:35 [trackbot]
Meeting: eGovernment Interest Group Teleconference
12:58:35 [trackbot]
Date: 29 April 2009
12:58:42 [josema]
zakim, who's here?
12:58:42 [Zakim]
On the phone I see +1.512.305.aaaa, [IPcaller]
12:58:43 [Zakim]
On IRC I see RRSAgent, Sharron, Jake, kevin, Daniel_Bennett, josema, trackbot
12:58:54 [Zakim]
+ +1.202.731.aabb
12:59:22 [Owen]
Owen has joined #egov
12:59:31 [Sharron]
zakim, aaaa is Sharron
12:59:31 [Zakim]
+Sharron; got it
12:59:48 [Zakim]
+[CTIC]
12:59:56 [Zakim]
+ +1.202.319.aacc
12:59:57 [josema]
zakim, [CTIC] is me
12:59:57 [Zakim]
+josema; got it
13:00:40 [davemc]
davemc has joined #egov
13:01:16 [kevin]
Good Morning all
13:01:35 [josema]
zakim, aacc is probably Owen
13:01:35 [Zakim]
+Owen?; got it
13:01:39 [josema]
zakim, who's here?
13:01:41 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Sharron, [IPcaller], +1.202.731.aabb, josema, Owen?
13:01:42 [Zakim]
On IRC I see davemc, Owen, Zakim, RRSAgent, Sharron, Jake, kevin, Daniel_Bennett, josema, trackbot
13:01:51 [Zakim]
+ +1.202.527.aadd
13:01:52 [Daniel_Bennett]
202-319 is Daniel
13:02:18 [Zakim]
+??P20
13:02:22 [josema]
zakim, aabb is Daniel_Bennett
13:02:22 [Zakim]
+Daniel_Bennett; got it
13:02:35 [josema]
zakim, aadd is Suzanne
13:02:35 [Zakim]
+Suzanne; got it
13:02:44 [josema]
zakim, ??P20 is Dave
13:02:44 [Zakim]
+Dave; got it
13:03:03 [josema]
regrets+ Oscar
13:03:19 [josema]
topic: review of open issues (and actions)
13:04:09 [Zakim]
+ +1.703.994.aaee
13:04:38 [josema]
zakim, aaee is Ken
13:04:38 [Zakim]
+Ken; got it
13:05:28 [john]
john has joined #egov
13:06:15 [josema]
all, see: http://www.w3.org/2007/eGov/IG/track/issues/open
13:06:26 [Zakim]
+ +0203334aaff
13:06:41 [josema]
zakim, aaff is john
13:06:41 [Zakim]
+john; got it
13:08:40 [josema]
scribe: josema
13:10:39 [josema]
kevin: met BSA, government reps from some vendors, at meeting at The White House
13:11:02 [josema]
... good discussion, interest in our work, BSA submitted comments already
13:11:54 [josema]
... Beth Noveck asked people in the room if they were participating in this W3C work
13:12:10 [josema]
... heard it was received as they should work with us
13:13:16 [josema]
... also Bev keeping us in the forefront
13:13:57 [josema]
... I also participated in TWB/OASIS workshop on April, 17th
13:14:20 [josema]
s/topic: review of open issues (and actions)/topic: update on activities
13:14:38 [josema]
... people from several countries, some african countries
13:15:01 [josema]
... all discussions about standards referring to W3C work
13:15:23 [josema]
suzanne: great news, I appreciate hearing that
13:15:34 [josema]
topic: review of open issues (and actions)
13:16:23 [josema]
issue list: http://www.w3.org/2007/eGov/IG/track/issues/open
13:17:41 [josema]
ISSUE-1
13:18:03 [josema]
@@Semantic agreement in advance facilitates all exchanging parties to have a common understanding of the meaning of the data exchanged ISSUE-1@@
13:18:25 [john]
q+
13:18:34 [josema]
ack john
13:18:56 [josema]
[comments in @@ come from editor's draft]
13:20:56 [davemc]
Owen +1
13:21:15 [josema]
owen: as much agreement in advance as possible is good
13:21:41 [josema]
... [scribe missed comment]
13:22:21 [josema]
Daniel: I don't think this is a requirement but a best practice
13:23:08 [kevin]
Daniel, I agree it is a best practice
13:23:18 [josema]
john: I like the wording, can live with that
13:23:42 [josema]
zakim, who's noisy?
13:23:53 [Zakim]
josema, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Daniel_Bennett (9%), josema (14%), Ken (24%)
13:23:57 [Owen]
From my perspective, the key point is to publish the names and plain-language definitions of each element regardless of how many people may or may not agree.
13:25:20 [josema]
RESOLVED: close ISSUE-1
13:27:30 [josema]
trackbot, close ISSUE-2
13:27:30 [trackbot]
ISSUE-2 Open Government Data Definition closed
13:27:45 [josema]
trackbot, close ISSUE-1
13:27:46 [trackbot]
ISSUE-1 is it necessary to agree upon the semantics in advance? closed
13:28:00 [josema]
trackbot, open ISSUE-2
13:28:00 [trackbot]
Sorry, josema, I don't understand 'trackbot, open ISSUE-2'. Please refer to http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc for help
13:28:41 [josema]
ISSUE-2
13:28:59 [josema]
[john tries to cut himself in two...]
13:29:06 [john]
lol
13:29:48 [davemc]
agreed. let's not be too academically perfect.
13:31:28 [josema]
[suzanne suggest to review authoritative references and highlight the common thing]
13:31:37 [john]
q+
13:31:45 [josema]
see some at: http://razor.occams.info/pubdocs/2009-02-28_TCamp_Data_Standards.pdf
13:32:11 [davemc]
a definitive reference would be it's own working group
13:32:17 [josema]
s/suggest/suggests
13:33:08 [josema]
suzanne: if there's no formal and definitive definition we should point to what is available
13:33:52 [josema]
... but get to just one could take us a lot of time
13:34:07 [john]
agree with 7 / 8 of those listed
13:34:25 [john]
no 8 is troublesome
13:34:30 [josema]
ack j
13:34:34 [josema]
ack john
13:35:13 [josema]
john: be careful not to enter the OSS vs. proprietary sw discussion
13:35:48 [davemc]
also be careful to avoid the "free software" versus "open Source" lexicon
13:35:49 [josema]
... we should point to what people mean as OGD, not endorse any
13:35:58 [josema]
suzanne: make situation awareness
13:36:18 [josema]
dave: could even be a subgroup in the new charter
13:37:44 [josema]
ACTION: kevin to deal with ISSUE-2 along this line
13:37:44 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-55 - Deal with ISSUE-2 along this line [on Kevin Novak - due 2009-05-06].
13:38:20 [josema]
ISSUE-2: see ACTION-55
13:38:20 [trackbot]
ISSUE-2 Open Government Data Definition notes added
13:38:46 [Owen]
It is not necessary to get into the debate over open source versus proprietary software in order to outline the attributes of open *data*.
13:39:06 [josema]
ISSUE-3
13:39:11 [davemc]
I vote to close this...
13:39:29 [josema]
kevin: propose to leave it as is and close it
13:40:01 [josema]
suzanne: agree
13:40:34 [josema]
... it could be a good ting to add to an appendix or glossary
13:41:28 [josema]
s/ting/thing
13:41:49 [josema]
[also on ISSUE-26 on having a glossary]
13:42:08 [josema]
suzanne: should we add a glossary?
13:42:27 [josema]
jose: I'd like to if someone takes responsibility
13:42:38 [josema]
daniel: +1, maybe using wiki approach
13:43:15 [josema]
ACTION: Sharron to start glossary related to ISSUE-26
13:43:15 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-56 - Start glossary related to ISSUE-26 [on Sharron Rush - due 2009-05-06].
13:43:25 [josema]
ISSUE-26: see ACTION-56
13:43:25 [trackbot]
ISSUE-26 glossary to be added to the document? notes added
13:43:44 [ken]
ken has joined #egov
13:44:11 [josema]
close ISSUE-26
13:44:11 [trackbot]
ISSUE-26 glossary to be added to the document? closed
13:44:41 [josema]
ISSUE-2, glossary will hold this
13:44:45 [josema]
close ISSUE-2
13:44:45 [trackbot]
ISSUE-2 Open Government Data Definition closed
13:44:50 [josema]
close ISSUE-3
13:44:50 [trackbot]
ISSUE-3 spelling of eGovernment closed
13:46:30 [john]
he is right
13:46:54 [josema]
ISSUE-4
13:47:28 [josema]
jose: I would add it
13:48:22 [john]
q+
13:48:24 [josema]
Daniel: [on issue in US around this and re-selling datasets]
13:48:42 [josema]
ack john
13:48:54 [josema]
... potential issue, don't think we should say governments should do this
13:49:09 [josema]
john: not say it's desirable but ack it as approach
13:49:46 [josema]
owen: US FOIA says gov should maintain data in formats requested ??
13:50:32 [josema]
dave: sounds like we are discussing packaging rather than data at this point
13:51:02 [kevin]
I agree with John
13:51:39 [Owen]
The E-FOIA amendments are available at http://www.usdoj.gov/oip/foia_updates/Vol_XVII_4/page2.htm
13:52:06 [josema]
ACTION: john to write a paragraph to add this one
13:52:06 [trackbot]
Sorry, amibiguous username (more than one match) - john
13:52:06 [trackbot]
Try using a different identifier, such as family name or username (eg. jwonderl, jsherida)
13:52:20 [josema]
ACTION: jsherida to write a paragraph to add this one
13:52:20 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-57 - Write a paragraph to add this one [on John Sheridan - due 2009-05-06].
13:52:40 [josema]
ISSUE-4: see ACTION-57
13:52:40 [trackbot]
ISSUE-4 Raw Data or Bulk Data downloads should be added to OGD section notes added
13:59:08 [josema]
[discussions on approach in EU and US]
13:59:21 [josema]
[on how to reference, how this can be or not mandated by govs]
13:59:56 [josema]
[this is an issues doc; we should highlight it as an issue[
14:00:16 [josema]
ISSUE-5
14:00:55 [josema]
owen: should W3C recs be in FEA TRM?
14:01:11 [josema]
[nothing heard]
14:01:15 [josema]
owen: yes
14:02:10 [josema]
daniel: let them be able to reference it, not say they should reference it
14:03:06 [josema]
owen: it's the technical _reference_ model not the technical _mandate_ model
14:03:48 [josema]
suzanne: we are writing a doc that have potential to turn into set of guidelines
14:04:11 [josema]
... TRM way of reference is one way but what about other countries?
14:04:42 [josema]
kevin: we should be broad
14:05:15 [davemc]
Kevin +1 : Broad, but flexible
14:05:24 [josema]
... I don't think we'll have a pretty clear view yet
14:05:45 [josema]
suzanne: issues can turn into oportunities for future work
14:05:51 [john]
+1
14:05:53 [josema]
s/oportunities/opportunities
14:05:57 [davemc]
Suzanne +1
14:06:16 [Zakim]
-Suzanne
14:06:18 [Owen]
It would be good if the "data" contained in "standards" (like W3C Recommendations) were readily referenceable in national TRMs.
14:06:18 [josema]
[suzanne leaves call]
14:07:36 [josema]
ISSUE-5, go ahead with broad but flexible approach
14:09:01 [josema]
close ISSUE-19
14:09:01 [trackbot]
ISSUE-19 The mention of human readable format using HTML seems unclearly focused closed
14:10:30 [josema]
close ISSUE-27
14:10:30 [trackbot]
ISSUE-27 remove negative reference to PDF closed
14:11:58 [josema]
dave: fine with replacement text on both
14:13:14 [josema]
[reviewing accessibility issues]
14:13:30 [josema]
jose: added everything to the doc, fine with me, they are the experts
14:13:39 [josema]
kevin: anything controversial?
14:14:14 [john]
kevin +1
14:14:16 [josema]
sharron: I'm in both groups, nothing controversial, just making a better distinction
14:16:36 [josema]
close ISSUE-6
14:16:37 [trackbot]
ISSUE-6 open standards to achieve participation and engagement closed
14:19:43 [josema]
[all fine with accessibility related changes]
14:21:27 [josema]
ISSUE-7
14:21:47 [josema]
[distinction between sw and data stds?]
14:23:43 [john]
q+
14:25:07 [josema]
chair: john, kevin
14:25:16 [josema]
rrsagent, draft minutes
14:25:16 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/04/29-egov-minutes.html josema
14:25:19 [john]
I'm enjoying the discussion
14:26:14 [josema]
ack john
14:26:48 [josema]
[level you _need_ to achieve vs. level you _want_ to achieve]
14:27:24 [josema]
[on policy need to have higher degree of interop e.g. on geospatial data]
14:27:31 [davemc]
John +1
14:27:52 [josema]
[we don't need everything to interop with everything from a gov perspective]
14:28:53 [josema]
close ISSUE-7
14:28:53 [trackbot]
ISSUE-7 achieving interoperability should be done through standardization closed
14:29:09 [Zakim]
-Dave
14:29:15 [davemc]
davemc has left #egov
14:29:51 [Zakim]
-Ken
14:31:15 [josema]
jose: several on adding pointers and examples can be already closed, it's being done
14:31:21 [josema]
kevin: +1
14:31:23 [josema]
john: +1
14:31:44 [josema]
ACTION: josema to close those ISSUES that have been integrated in the doc already
14:31:44 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-58 - Close those ISSUES that have been integrated in the doc already [on José Manuel Alonso - due 2009-05-06].
14:32:18 [josema]
sharron: will the structure of the document change significantly to improve narrative ??
14:32:25 [josema]
... I can volunteer to help with that
14:33:25 [josema]
ISSUE-10: yes
14:33:25 [trackbot]
ISSUE-10 creation of an executive summary for C-level audience notes added
14:34:12 [josema]
ACTION: kevin to develop exec summary and abstract
14:34:12 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-59 - Develop exec summary and abstract [on Kevin Novak - due 2009-05-06].
14:34:31 [josema]
ACTION: sharron to help develop exec summary and abstract
14:34:31 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-60 - Help develop exec summary and abstract [on Sharron Rush - due 2009-05-06].
14:37:20 [josema]
ISSUE-11: add them to glossary, too
14:37:20 [trackbot]
ISSUE-11 abbreviations like API, PSI etc. needs to be explained the first time and more tweaks to abbreviations might be needed notes added
14:37:51 [josema]
[when producing the glossary take into account the abbreviations]
14:37:59 [josema]
close ISSUE-11
14:37:59 [trackbot]
ISSUE-11 abbreviations like API, PSI etc. needs to be explained the first time and more tweaks to abbreviations might be needed closed
14:39:11 [josema]
ISSUE-15, ISSUE-17, daniel working on it, will deliver text tomorrow
14:39:40 [josema]
ISSUE-17: Daniel, more of a philosofical rather than technical but I'll call out
14:39:40 [trackbot]
ISSUE-17 safe to play notes added
14:40:53 [josema]
ISSUE-18
14:41:08 [josema]
josema: not sure what to do with this one, not easy
14:41:25 [josema]
kevin: I think we should be broad and flexible again
14:41:36 [josema]
daniel: we should be very careful
14:41:47 [josema]
john: it's a hard question
14:44:43 [josema]
kevin: should we have a list?
14:44:50 [josema]
john: it can be problematic
14:44:54 [josema]
josema: +1
14:44:57 [josema]
daniel: +1
14:46:31 [josema]
ISSUE-18: use Web content from WCAG2.0, referencing from document as a whole where needed
14:46:31 [trackbot]
ISSUE-18 should more non W3C standards be added? notes added
14:48:33 [josema]
ACTION: sharron to review document with ISSUE-18 in mind
14:48:33 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-61 - Review document with ISSUE-18 in mind [on Sharron Rush - due 2009-05-06].
14:48:42 [josema]
ISSUE-18: see ACTION-61
14:48:42 [trackbot]
ISSUE-18 should more non W3C standards be added? notes added
14:49:50 [josema]
ISSUE-22
14:50:12 [josema]
Daniel: we should add something saying that debate and dialogue is important and should be added
14:50:27 [josema]
sharron: +1
14:51:24 [josema]
ACTION: daniel to provide replacement text to add ISSUE-22
14:51:24 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-62 - Provide replacement text to add ISSUE-22 [on Daniel Bennett - due 2009-05-06].
14:52:56 [josema]
close ISSUE-25
14:52:56 [trackbot]
ISSUE-25 more good practice around URIs and URLs closed
14:54:53 [john]
great job josema!
14:55:06 [Zakim]
This conference is in overtime; all ports must be freed
14:58:35 [josema]
[all review already proposed schedule and agree]
14:59:13 [Zakim]
-Owen?
14:59:14 [Zakim]
-Sharron
14:59:16 [josema]
ADJOURNED
14:59:25 [Zakim]
-Daniel_Bennett
14:59:27 [Zakim]
-john
14:59:43 [josema]
rrsagent, draft minutes
14:59:43 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/04/29-egov-minutes.html josema
14:59:50 [josema]
zakim, who's here?
14:59:50 [Zakim]
On the phone I see [IPcaller], josema
14:59:51 [Zakim]
On IRC I see ken, john, Zakim, RRSAgent, Sharron, Jake, kevin, Daniel_Bennett, josema, trackbot
14:59:58 [Zakim]
-[IPcaller]
15:00:01 [josema]
zakim, list attendees
15:00:01 [Zakim]
As of this point the attendees have been +1.512.305.aaaa, [IPcaller], +1.202.731.aabb, Sharron, +1.202.319.aacc, josema, Owen?, +1.202.527.aadd, Daniel_Bennett, Suzanne, Dave,
15:00:04 [Zakim]
... +1.703.994.aaee, Ken, +0203334aaff, john
15:00:06 [josema]
rrsagent, draft minutes
15:00:06 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/04/29-egov-minutes.html josema
15:00:18 [Zakim]
-josema
15:00:19 [Zakim]
T&S_EGOV()9:00AM has ended
15:00:20 [Zakim]
Attendees were +1.512.305.aaaa, [IPcaller], +1.202.731.aabb, Sharron, +1.202.319.aacc, josema, Owen?, +1.202.527.aadd, Daniel_Bennett, Suzanne, Dave, +1.703.994.aaee, Ken,
15:00:22 [Zakim]
... +0203334aaff, john
16:03:32 [Sharron]
Sharron has left #egov
16:19:02 [josema]
zakim, bye
16:19:02 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #egov
16:19:05 [josema]
rrsagent, bye
16:19:05 [RRSAgent]
I see 9 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2009/04/29-egov-actions.rdf :
16:19:05 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: kevin to deal with ISSUE-2 along this line [1]
16:19:05 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/04/29-egov-irc#T13-37-44
16:19:05 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Sharron to start glossary related to ISSUE-26 [2]
16:19:05 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/04/29-egov-irc#T13-43-15
16:19:05 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: john to write a paragraph to add this one [3]
16:19:05 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/04/29-egov-irc#T13-52-06
16:19:05 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: jsherida to write a paragraph to add this one [4]
16:19:05 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/04/29-egov-irc#T13-52-20
16:19:05 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: josema to close those ISSUES that have been integrated in the doc already [5]
16:19:05 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/04/29-egov-irc#T14-31-44
16:19:05 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: kevin to develop exec summary and abstract [6]
16:19:05 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/04/29-egov-irc#T14-34-12
16:19:05 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: sharron to help develop exec summary and abstract [7]
16:19:05 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/04/29-egov-irc#T14-34-31
16:19:05 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: sharron to review document with ISSUE-18 in mind [8]
16:19:05 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/04/29-egov-irc#T14-48-33
16:19:05 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: daniel to provide replacement text to add ISSUE-22 [9]
16:19:05 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/04/29-egov-irc#T14-51-24