12:58:30 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #egov
12:58:30 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/04/29-egov-irc
12:58:32 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
12:58:32 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #egov
12:58:34 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be EGOV
12:58:34 <Zakim> ok, trackbot, I see T&S_EGOV()9:00AM already started
12:58:35 <trackbot> Meeting: eGovernment Interest Group Teleconference
12:58:35 <trackbot> Date: 29 April 2009
12:58:42 <josema> zakim, who's here?
12:58:42 <Zakim> On the phone I see +1.512.305.aaaa, [IPcaller]
12:58:43 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, Sharron, Jake, kevin, Daniel_Bennett, josema, trackbot
12:58:54 <Zakim> + +1.202.731.aabb
12:59:22 <Owen> Owen has joined #egov
12:59:31 <Sharron> zakim, aaaa is Sharron
12:59:31 <Zakim> +Sharron; got it
12:59:48 <Zakim> +[CTIC]
12:59:56 <Zakim> + +1.202.319.aacc
12:59:57 <josema> zakim, [CTIC] is me
12:59:57 <Zakim> +josema; got it
13:00:40 <davemc> davemc has joined #egov
13:01:16 <kevin> Good Morning all
13:01:35 <josema> zakim, aacc is probably Owen
13:01:35 <Zakim> +Owen?; got it
13:01:39 <josema> zakim, who's here?
13:01:41 <Zakim> On the phone I see Sharron, [IPcaller], +1.202.731.aabb, josema, Owen?
13:01:42 <Zakim> On IRC I see davemc, Owen, Zakim, RRSAgent, Sharron, Jake, kevin, Daniel_Bennett, josema, trackbot
13:01:51 <Zakim> + +1.202.527.aadd
13:01:52 <Daniel_Bennett> 202-319 is Daniel
13:02:18 <Zakim> +??P20
13:02:22 <josema> zakim, aabb is Daniel_Bennett
13:02:22 <Zakim> +Daniel_Bennett; got it
13:02:35 <josema> zakim, aadd is Suzanne
13:02:35 <Zakim> +Suzanne; got it
13:02:44 <josema> zakim, ??P20 is Dave
13:02:44 <Zakim> +Dave; got it
13:03:03 <josema> regrets+ Oscar
13:03:19 <josema> topic: review of open issues (and actions)
13:04:09 <Zakim> + +1.703.994.aaee
13:04:38 <josema> zakim, aaee is Ken
13:04:38 <Zakim> +Ken; got it
13:05:28 <john> john has joined #egov
13:06:15 <josema> all, see: http://www.w3.org/2007/eGov/IG/track/issues/open
13:06:26 <Zakim> + +0203334aaff
13:06:41 <josema> zakim, aaff is john
13:06:41 <Zakim> +john; got it
13:08:40 <josema> scribe: josema
13:10:39 <josema> kevin: met BSA, government reps from some vendors, at meeting at The White House
13:11:02 <josema> ... good discussion, interest in our work, BSA submitted comments already
13:11:54 <josema> ... Beth Noveck asked people in the room if they were participating in this W3C work
13:12:10 <josema> ... heard it was received as they should work with us
13:13:16 <josema> ... also Bev keeping us in the forefront
13:13:57 <josema> ... I also participated in TWB/OASIS workshop on April, 17th
13:14:20 <josema> s/topic: review of open issues (and actions)/topic: update on activities
13:14:38 <josema> ... people from several countries, some african countries
13:15:01 <josema> ... all discussions about standards referring to W3C work
13:15:23 <josema> suzanne: great news, I appreciate hearing that
13:15:34 <josema> topic: review of open issues (and actions)
13:16:23 <josema> issue list:  http://www.w3.org/2007/eGov/IG/track/issues/open
13:17:41 <josema> ISSUE-1
13:18:03 <josema> @@Semantic agreement in advance facilitates all exchanging parties to have a common understanding of the meaning of the data exchanged ISSUE-1@@
13:18:25 <john> q+
13:18:34 <josema> ack john
13:18:56 <josema> [comments in @@ come from editor's draft]
13:20:56 <davemc> Owen +1
13:21:15 <josema> owen: as much agreement in advance as possible is good
13:21:41 <josema> ... [scribe missed comment]
13:22:21 <josema> Daniel: I don't think this is a requirement but a best practice
13:23:08 <kevin> Daniel, I agree it is a best practice
13:23:18 <josema> john: I like the wording, can live with that
13:23:42 <josema> zakim, who's noisy?
13:23:53 <Zakim> josema, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Daniel_Bennett (9%), josema (14%), Ken (24%)
13:23:57 <Owen> From my perspective, the key point is to publish the names and plain-language definitions of each element regardless of how many people may or may not agree.
13:25:20 <josema> RESOLVED: close ISSUE-1
13:27:30 <josema> trackbot, close ISSUE-2
13:27:30 <trackbot> ISSUE-2 Open Government Data Definition closed
13:27:45 <josema> trackbot, close ISSUE-1
13:27:46 <trackbot> ISSUE-1 is it necessary to agree upon the semantics in advance? closed
13:28:00 <josema> trackbot, open ISSUE-2
13:28:00 <trackbot> Sorry, josema, I don't understand 'trackbot, open ISSUE-2'. Please refer to http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc for help
13:28:41 <josema> ISSUE-2
13:28:59 <josema> [john tries to cut himself in two...]
13:29:06 <john> lol
13:29:48 <davemc> agreed.  let's not be too academically perfect.  
13:31:28 <josema> [suzanne suggest to review authoritative references and highlight the common thing]
13:31:37 <john> q+
13:31:45 <josema> see some at: http://razor.occams.info/pubdocs/2009-02-28_TCamp_Data_Standards.pdf
13:32:11 <davemc> a definitive reference would be it's own working group
13:32:17 <josema> s/suggest/suggests
13:33:08 <josema> suzanne: if there's no formal and definitive definition we should point to what is available
13:33:52 <josema> ... but get to just one could take us a lot of time
13:34:07 <john> agree with 7 / 8 of those listed
13:34:25 <john> no 8 is troublesome
13:34:30 <josema> ack j
13:34:34 <josema> ack john
13:35:13 <josema> john: be careful not to enter the OSS vs. proprietary sw discussion
13:35:48 <davemc> also be careful to avoid the "free software" versus "open Source" lexicon
13:35:49 <josema> ... we should point to what people mean as OGD, not endorse any
13:35:58 <josema> suzanne: make situation awareness
13:36:18 <josema> dave: could even be a subgroup in the new charter
13:37:44 <josema> ACTION: kevin to deal with ISSUE-2 along this line
13:37:44 <trackbot> Created ACTION-55 - Deal with ISSUE-2 along this line [on Kevin Novak - due 2009-05-06].
13:38:20 <josema> ISSUE-2: see ACTION-55
13:38:20 <trackbot> ISSUE-2 Open Government Data Definition notes added
13:38:46 <Owen> It is not necessary to get into the debate over open source versus proprietary software in order to outline the attributes of open *data*.
13:39:06 <josema> ISSUE-3
13:39:11 <davemc> I vote to close this...
13:39:29 <josema> kevin: propose to leave it as is and close it
13:40:01 <josema> suzanne: agree
13:40:34 <josema> ... it could be a good ting to add to an appendix or glossary
13:41:28 <josema> s/ting/thing
13:41:49 <josema> [also on ISSUE-26 on having a glossary]
13:42:08 <josema> suzanne: should we add a glossary?
13:42:27 <josema> jose: I'd like to if someone takes responsibility
13:42:38 <josema> daniel: +1, maybe using wiki approach
13:43:15 <josema> ACTION: Sharron to start glossary related to ISSUE-26
13:43:15 <trackbot> Created ACTION-56 - Start glossary related to ISSUE-26 [on Sharron Rush - due 2009-05-06].
13:43:25 <josema> ISSUE-26: see ACTION-56
13:43:25 <trackbot> ISSUE-26 glossary to be added to the document? notes added
13:43:44 <ken> ken has joined #egov
13:44:11 <josema> close ISSUE-26
13:44:11 <trackbot> ISSUE-26 glossary to be added to the document? closed
13:44:41 <josema> ISSUE-2, glossary will hold this
13:44:45 <josema> close ISSUE-2
13:44:45 <trackbot> ISSUE-2 Open Government Data Definition closed
13:44:50 <josema> close ISSUE-3
13:44:50 <trackbot> ISSUE-3 spelling of eGovernment closed
13:46:30 <john> he is right
13:46:54 <josema> ISSUE-4
13:47:28 <josema> jose: I would add it
13:48:22 <john> q+
13:48:24 <josema> Daniel: [on issue in US around this and re-selling datasets]
13:48:42 <josema> ack john
13:48:54 <josema> ... potential issue, don't think we should say governments should do this
13:49:09 <josema> john: not say it's desirable but ack it as approach
13:49:46 <josema> owen: US FOIA says gov should maintain data in formats requested ??
13:50:32 <josema> dave: sounds like we are discussing packaging rather than data at this point
13:51:02 <kevin> I agree with John
13:51:39 <Owen> The E-FOIA amendments are available at http://www.usdoj.gov/oip/foia_updates/Vol_XVII_4/page2.htm
13:52:06 <josema> ACTION: john to write a paragraph to add this one
13:52:06 <trackbot> Sorry, amibiguous username (more than one match) - john
13:52:06 <trackbot> Try using a different identifier, such as family name or username (eg. jwonderl, jsherida)
13:52:20 <josema> ACTION: jsherida to write a paragraph to add this one
13:52:20 <trackbot> Created ACTION-57 - Write a paragraph to add this one [on John Sheridan - due 2009-05-06].
13:52:40 <josema> ISSUE-4: see ACTION-57
13:52:40 <trackbot> ISSUE-4 Raw Data or Bulk Data downloads should be added to OGD section notes added
13:59:08 <josema> [discussions on approach in EU and US]
13:59:21 <josema> [on how to reference, how this can be or not mandated by govs]
13:59:56 <josema> [this is an issues doc; we should highlight it as an issue[
14:00:16 <josema> ISSUE-5
14:00:55 <josema> owen: should W3C recs be in FEA TRM?
14:01:11 <josema> [nothing heard]
14:01:15 <josema> owen: yes
14:02:10 <josema> daniel: let them be able to reference it, not say they should reference it
14:03:06 <josema> owen: it's the technical _reference_ model not the technical _mandate_ model
14:03:48 <josema> suzanne: we are writing a doc that have potential to turn into set of guidelines
14:04:11 <josema> ... TRM way of reference is one way but what about other countries?
14:04:42 <josema> kevin: we should be broad
14:05:15 <davemc> Kevin +1 : Broad, but flexible
14:05:24 <josema> ... I don't think we'll have a pretty clear view yet
14:05:45 <josema> suzanne: issues can turn into oportunities for future work
14:05:51 <john> +1
14:05:53 <josema> s/oportunities/opportunities
14:05:57 <davemc> Suzanne +1
14:06:16 <Zakim> -Suzanne
14:06:18 <Owen> It would be good if the "data" contained in "standards" (like W3C Recommendations) were readily referenceable in national TRMs.
14:06:18 <josema> [suzanne leaves call]
14:07:36 <josema> ISSUE-5, go ahead with broad but flexible approach
14:09:01 <josema> close ISSUE-19
14:09:01 <trackbot> ISSUE-19 The mention of human readable format using HTML seems unclearly focused closed
14:10:30 <josema> close ISSUE-27
14:10:30 <trackbot> ISSUE-27 remove negative reference to PDF closed
14:11:58 <josema> dave: fine with replacement text on both
14:13:14 <josema> [reviewing accessibility issues]
14:13:30 <josema> jose: added everything to the doc, fine with me, they are the experts
14:13:39 <josema> kevin: anything controversial?
14:14:14 <john> kevin +1
14:14:16 <josema> sharron: I'm in both groups, nothing controversial, just making a better distinction
14:16:36 <josema> close ISSUE-6
14:16:37 <trackbot> ISSUE-6 open standards to achieve participation and engagement closed
14:19:43 <josema> [all fine with accessibility related changes]
14:21:27 <josema> ISSUE-7
14:21:47 <josema> [distinction between sw and data stds?]
14:23:43 <john> q+
14:25:07 <josema> chair: john, kevin
14:25:16 <josema> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:25:16 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/04/29-egov-minutes.html josema
14:25:19 <john> I'm enjoying the discussion
14:26:14 <josema> ack john
14:26:48 <josema> [level you _need_ to achieve vs. level you _want_ to achieve]
14:27:24 <josema> [on policy need to have higher degree of interop e.g. on geospatial data]
14:27:31 <davemc> John +1
14:27:52 <josema> [we don't need everything to interop with everything from a gov perspective]
14:28:53 <josema> close ISSUE-7
14:28:53 <trackbot> ISSUE-7 achieving interoperability should be done through standardization closed
14:29:09 <Zakim> -Dave
14:29:15 <davemc> davemc has left #egov
14:29:51 <Zakim> -Ken
14:31:15 <josema> jose: several on adding pointers and examples can be already closed, it's being done
14:31:21 <josema> kevin: +1
14:31:23 <josema> john: +1
14:31:44 <josema> ACTION: josema to close those ISSUES that have been integrated in the doc already
14:31:44 <trackbot> Created ACTION-58 - Close those ISSUES that have been integrated in the doc already [on José Manuel Alonso - due 2009-05-06].
14:32:18 <josema> sharron: will the structure of the document change significantly to improve narrative ??
14:32:25 <josema> ... I can volunteer to help with that
14:33:25 <josema> ISSUE-10: yes
14:33:25 <trackbot> ISSUE-10 creation of an executive summary for C-level audience notes added
14:34:12 <josema> ACTION: kevin to develop exec summary and abstract
14:34:12 <trackbot> Created ACTION-59 - Develop exec summary and abstract [on Kevin Novak - due 2009-05-06].
14:34:31 <josema> ACTION: sharron to help develop exec summary and abstract
14:34:31 <trackbot> Created ACTION-60 - Help develop exec summary and abstract [on Sharron Rush - due 2009-05-06].
14:37:20 <josema> ISSUE-11: add them to glossary, too
14:37:20 <trackbot> ISSUE-11 abbreviations like API, PSI etc. needs to be explained the first time and more tweaks to abbreviations might be needed notes added
14:37:51 <josema> [when producing the glossary take into account the abbreviations]
14:37:59 <josema> close ISSUE-11
14:37:59 <trackbot> ISSUE-11 abbreviations like API, PSI etc. needs to be explained the first time and more tweaks to abbreviations might be needed closed
14:39:11 <josema> ISSUE-15, ISSUE-17, daniel working on it, will deliver text tomorrow
14:39:40 <josema> ISSUE-17: Daniel, more of a philosofical rather than technical but I'll call out
14:39:40 <trackbot> ISSUE-17 safe to play notes added
14:40:53 <josema> ISSUE-18 
14:41:08 <josema> josema: not sure what to do with this one, not easy
14:41:25 <josema> kevin: I think we should be broad and flexible again
14:41:36 <josema> daniel: we should be very careful
14:41:47 <josema> john: it's a hard question
14:44:43 <josema> kevin: should we have a list?
14:44:50 <josema> john: it can be problematic
14:44:54 <josema> josema: +1
14:44:57 <josema> daniel: +1
14:46:31 <josema> ISSUE-18: use Web content from WCAG2.0, referencing from document as a whole where needed
14:46:31 <trackbot> ISSUE-18 should more non W3C standards be added? notes added
14:48:33 <josema> ACTION: sharron to review document with ISSUE-18 in mind
14:48:33 <trackbot> Created ACTION-61 - Review document with ISSUE-18 in mind [on Sharron Rush - due 2009-05-06].
14:48:42 <josema> ISSUE-18: see ACTION-61
14:48:42 <trackbot> ISSUE-18 should more non W3C standards be added? notes added
14:49:50 <josema> ISSUE-22
14:50:12 <josema> Daniel: we should add something saying that debate and dialogue is important and should be added
14:50:27 <josema> sharron: +1
14:51:24 <josema> ACTION: daniel to provide replacement text to add ISSUE-22
14:51:24 <trackbot> Created ACTION-62 - Provide replacement text to add ISSUE-22 [on Daniel Bennett - due 2009-05-06].
14:52:56 <josema> close ISSUE-25
14:52:56 <trackbot> ISSUE-25 more good practice around URIs and URLs closed
14:54:53 <john> great job josema!
14:55:06 <Zakim> This conference is in overtime; all ports must be freed
14:58:35 <josema> [all review already proposed schedule and agree]
14:59:13 <Zakim> -Owen?
14:59:14 <Zakim> -Sharron
14:59:16 <josema> ADJOURNED
14:59:25 <Zakim> -Daniel_Bennett
14:59:27 <Zakim> -john
14:59:43 <josema> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:59:43 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/04/29-egov-minutes.html josema
14:59:50 <josema> zakim, who's here?
14:59:50 <Zakim> On the phone I see [IPcaller], josema
14:59:51 <Zakim> On IRC I see ken, john, Zakim, RRSAgent, Sharron, Jake, kevin, Daniel_Bennett, josema, trackbot
14:59:58 <Zakim> -[IPcaller]
15:00:01 <josema> zakim, list attendees
15:00:01 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been +1.512.305.aaaa, [IPcaller], +1.202.731.aabb, Sharron, +1.202.319.aacc, josema, Owen?, +1.202.527.aadd, Daniel_Bennett, Suzanne, Dave,
15:00:04 <Zakim> ... +1.703.994.aaee, Ken, +0203334aaff, john
15:00:06 <josema> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:00:06 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/04/29-egov-minutes.html josema
15:00:18 <Zakim> -josema
15:00:19 <Zakim> T&S_EGOV()9:00AM has ended
15:00:20 <Zakim> Attendees were +1.512.305.aaaa, [IPcaller], +1.202.731.aabb, Sharron, +1.202.319.aacc, josema, Owen?, +1.202.527.aadd, Daniel_Bennett, Suzanne, Dave, +1.703.994.aaee, Ken,
15:00:22 <Zakim> ... +0203334aaff, john
16:03:32 <Sharron> Sharron has left #egov
16:19:02 <josema> zakim, bye
16:19:02 <Zakim> Zakim has left #egov
16:19:05 <josema> rrsagent, bye
16:19:05 <RRSAgent> I see 9 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2009/04/29-egov-actions.rdf :
16:19:05 <RRSAgent> ACTION: kevin to deal with ISSUE-2 along this line [1]
16:19:05 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/04/29-egov-irc#T13-37-44
16:19:05 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Sharron to start glossary related to ISSUE-26 [2]
16:19:05 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/04/29-egov-irc#T13-43-15
16:19:05 <RRSAgent> ACTION: john to write a paragraph to add this one [3]
16:19:05 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/04/29-egov-irc#T13-52-06
16:19:05 <RRSAgent> ACTION: jsherida to write a paragraph to add this one [4]
16:19:05 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/04/29-egov-irc#T13-52-20
16:19:05 <RRSAgent> ACTION: josema to close those ISSUES that have been integrated in the doc already [5]
16:19:05 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/04/29-egov-irc#T14-31-44
16:19:05 <RRSAgent> ACTION: kevin to develop exec summary and abstract [6]
16:19:05 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/04/29-egov-irc#T14-34-12
16:19:05 <RRSAgent> ACTION: sharron to help develop exec summary and abstract [7]
16:19:05 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/04/29-egov-irc#T14-34-31
16:19:05 <RRSAgent> ACTION: sharron to review document with ISSUE-18 in mind [8]
16:19:05 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/04/29-egov-irc#T14-48-33
16:19:05 <RRSAgent> ACTION: daniel to provide replacement text to add ISSUE-22 [9]
16:19:05 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/04/29-egov-irc#T14-51-24