19:50:34 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #au
19:50:34 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/04/27-au-irc
19:50:43 <Jan> Zakim, this will be AUWG
19:50:43 <Zakim> ok, Jan; I see WAI_AUWG()3:00PM scheduled to start 50 minutes ago
19:50:49 <Jan> Meeting: WAI AU
19:51:17 <Jan> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-au/2009AprJun/0023.html
20:00:32 <Zakim> WAI_AUWG()3:00PM has now started
20:00:39 <Zakim> +Jeanne
20:01:11 <AnnM> AnnM has joined #au
20:01:17 <Zakim> + +0208123aaaa
20:01:39 <Zakim> +??P12
20:01:52 <Zakim> +??P13
20:02:36 <Jan> zakim, aaaa is really AnnM
20:02:36 <Zakim> +AnnM; got it
20:03:06 <Jan> zakim, ??P12 is really Andrew
20:03:06 <Zakim> +Andrew; got it
20:03:09 <Zakim> + +1.703.678.aabb
20:03:14 <Jan> zakim, ??P13 is really Jan
20:03:14 <Zakim> +Jan; got it
20:03:32 <Jan> zakim, aabb is really JeanneS
20:03:32 <Zakim> +JeanneS; got it
20:04:00 <Jan> zakim, JeanneS is really GregP
20:04:00 <Zakim> +GregP; got it
20:04:07 <Jan> zakim, whos' here?
20:04:07 <Zakim> I don't understand your question, Jan.
20:04:13 <Jan> zakim, who's here?
20:04:13 <Zakim> On the phone I see Jeanne, AnnM, Andrew, Jan, GregP
20:04:14 <Zakim> On IRC I see AnnM, RRSAgent, Zakim, Jan, Andrew, trackbot
20:04:26 <Zakim> +Tim_Boland
20:04:30 <Jan> zakim, who's on the phone?
20:04:30 <Zakim> On the phone I see Jeanne, AnnM, Andrew, Jan, GregP, Tim_Boland
20:04:49 <Zakim> -Tim_Boland
20:04:58 <Greg> Greg has joined #au
20:05:50 <Greg> I am online
20:06:27 <Zakim> +Tim_Boland
20:06:41 <Greg> action: Greg and Jeanne details for face to face
20:06:41 <trackbot> Created ACTION-141 - And Jeanne details for face to face [on Greg Pisocky - due 2009-05-04].
20:09:04 <Jan> scribe: Greg
20:09:15 <Jan> chair: Jutta Treviranus
20:09:36 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
20:09:44 <Greg> Face to face dates June 15 and 16, 2009 Adobe offices in McLean VA
20:10:02 <Jan> zakim, [IPcaller] is really JuttaT
20:10:02 <Zakim> +JuttaT; got it
20:10:07 <Greg> Goal is to come out of f 2 f with last call draft
20:10:15 <Jan> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-au/2009AprJun/0023.html
20:11:04 <Greg> Today's Agenda:
20:11:06 <Greg> Agenda:
20:11:07 <Greg> 1. TB's comments with JR's proposals:
20:11:09 <Greg> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-au/2009AprJun/0014.html
20:11:11 <Greg> 2. GPs issue re: examples of tools
20:11:13 <Greg> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-au/2009AprJun/0018.html
20:11:15 <Greg> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-au/2009AprJun/0022.html
20:11:16 <Greg> 3. External comments on public draft:
20:11:18 <Greg> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-atag2-comments/2009Mar/0000.html
20:12:09 <Greg> Jutta asks are there documents needed to accompany the last call draft in order to be prepared to issue it as the outcome of the face to face meeting
20:12:20 <jeanne> jeanne has joined #au
20:12:41 <Greg> Jan indicates Guidelines is the only document that is normative
20:12:59 <jeanne> action: JS to research any necessary preparation for Last Call draft to be completed before the F2F.  
20:12:59 <trackbot> Created ACTION-142 - Research any necessary preparation for Last Call draft to be completed before the F2F.   [on Jeanne Spellman - due 2009-05-04].
20:13:21 <Jan> Topic: Authoring Tool examples
20:13:23 <Jan> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-au/2009AprJun/0018.html
20:13:47 <Greg> Item 2 will be first in today's agenda 2. GPs issue re: examples of tools
20:13:49 <Greg> [16:11]	http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-au/2009AprJun/0018.html
20:13:51 <Greg> [16:11]	http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-au/2009AprJun/0022.html
20:14:44 <Jan> Current wording: http://www.w3.org/TR/ATAG20/#intro-def-au
20:15:03 <Jan> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-au/2009AprJun/0022.html
20:16:13 <Jan> Old:The definition applies to all or part of the following types of applications: 
20:16:15 <Jan> •WYSIWYG editors, plain text editors (embedded and stand-alone) 
20:16:17 <Jan> •conversion tools, software that can output Web content technologies (e.g., "Save as HTML") 
20:16:19 <Jan> •blogging tools, wikis, online forums, emailers that produce Web-content
20:16:20 <Jan> •multimedia authoring tools
20:16:21 <Jan> •scripting tools, widget development environment
20:16:23 <Jan> •content management systems, courseware tools, content aggregators
20:16:24 <Jan> •site management tools
20:16:26 <Jan> •others
20:16:32 <Jan> NEW: Notes on the Definition:
20:16:34 <Jan> 1. ATAG 2.0 applies to a wide variety of *Web content* generating 
20:16:36 <Jan> applications, such as:
20:16:38 <Jan>   - "conventional" webpage authoring tools (e.g., WYSIWYG HTML editors)
20:16:39 <Jan>   - software for directly editing source code (e.g., text editors)
20:16:41 <Jan>   - software for *converting* to *Web content technologies* (e.g., "Save 
20:16:42 <Jan> as HTML" features in office suites)
20:16:44 <Jan>   - integrated development environments (e.g., for DHTML)
20:16:45 <Jan>   - software that generates Web content on the basis of templates, 
20:16:47 <Jan> scripts, command-line input or wizard processes
20:16:49 <Jan>   - software for rapidly updating portions of webpages (e.g., blogging, 
20:16:51 <Jan> wikis, online forums)
20:16:52 <Jan>   - software for generating/managing entire sites (e.g., content 
20:16:54 <Jan> management systems, courseware tools, content aggregators)
20:16:55 <Jan>   - email clients that send messages in Web content technologies
20:16:57 <Jan>   - multimedia authoring tools
20:17:50 <Zakim> -Tim_Boland
20:18:13 <Zakim> -JuttaT
20:18:35 <Jan> GP: I like it , casts a sufficient net...covers all categories likely to encounter
20:18:36 <Zakim> +??P8
20:18:47 <Jan> zakim, ??P8 is really Jutta T
20:18:47 <Zakim> I don't understand '??P8 is really Jutta T', Jan
20:18:50 <Jan> zakim, ??P8 is really JuttaT
20:18:50 <Zakim> +JuttaT; got it
20:19:29 <Jan> - integrated development environments (e.g., for Web Application development)
20:20:26 <Greg> Jutta looking to inlcude the phrase "include but is not limited to"
20:21:08 <Jan> JT: "applications, such as" => "including, but not limited to:"
20:21:24 <jeanne> +1
20:22:10 <Greg> +1
20:22:18 <Jan> 1. ATAG 2.0 applies to a wide variety of *Web content* generating 
20:22:20 <Jan> applications, including, but not limited to:
20:22:22 <Jan>   - "conventional" webpage authoring tools (e.g., WYSIWYG HTML editors)
20:22:23 <Jan>   - software for directly editing source code (e.g., text editors)
20:22:25 <Jan>   - software for *converting* to *Web content technologies* (e.g., "Save 
20:22:26 <Jan> as HTML" features in office suites)
20:22:28 <Jan>   - integrated development environments (e.g., for Web Application development)
20:22:29 <Jan>   - software that generates Web content on the basis of templates, 
20:22:31 <Jan> scripts, command-line input or wizard processes
20:22:32 <Jan>   - software for rapidly updating portions of webpages (e.g., blogging, 
20:22:34 <Jan> wikis, online forums)
20:22:36 <Jan>   - software for generating/managing entire sites (e.g., content 
20:22:38 <Jan> management systems, courseware tools, content aggregators)
20:22:39 <Jan>   - email clients that send messages in Web content technologies
20:22:41 <Jan>   - multimedia authoring tools
20:22:46 <jeanne> action: JS to update the definition of authoring tool from the introduction with the edits above.  
20:22:46 <trackbot> Created ACTION-143 - Update the definition of authoring tool from the introduction with the edits above.   [on Jeanne Spellman - due 2009-05-04].
20:23:08 <Jan> Here are the other two notes:
20:23:10 <Jan> 2. Any guidelines that require *authors* to modify content in some way 
20:23:12 <Jan> always assumes that the person has *author permission*.
20:23:14 <Jan> 3. Applications that are used to create content in real time (e.g., 
20:23:16 <Jan> chats, collaboration tools, whiteboards, etc.) should attempt to conform 
20:23:17 <Jan> at least to Part A. In addition, many of the guidelines in Part B may 
20:23:18 <Jan> also apply, especially if the application has an archiving feature. For 
20:23:20 <Jan> more information, see the Techniques: Appendix E: Real-time content 
20:23:21 <Jan> production.
20:24:14 <Jan> Topic: Changes from TB,JR
20:24:48 <Jan> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-au/2009AprJun/0014.html
20:26:01 <jtrevir> jtrevir has joined #au
20:26:10 <Greg> Item 2 TB went through the document to verify the definitions
20:26:13 <Jan>  > 2.1.4:
20:26:15 <Jan>  > available programmatically
20:26:17 <Jan> CURRENT:
20:26:18 <Jan> image label present in the content is available programmatically
20:26:20 <Jan> PROPOSED:
20:26:22 <Jan> image label present in the content is available via a *platform 
20:26:23 <Jan> accessibility architecture*
20:27:48 <Jan> All: No objections
20:28:25 <Jan> > A.2.2.1:
20:28:27 <Jan>  > functional purpose
20:28:28 <Jan> CURRENT:
20:28:30 <Jan> the functional purpose for the modification
20:28:31 <Jan> PROPOSED:
20:28:33 <Jan> a description of the purpose of the modification
20:29:26 <Jan> All: No objections
20:29:44 <Jan> > A.2.2.2:
20:29:46 <Jan>  > WYSIWYG (need to spell out?)
20:29:47 <Jan> PROPOSED: New term:
20:29:49 <Jan> WYSIWYG
20:29:51 <Jan> This is an acronym for "What You See Is What You Get". A WYSIWYG user
20:29:53 <Jan> interface displays (to authors) the content being edited in a way that 
20:29:55 <Jan> is very similar to how it will appear to end users.
20:30:18 <Jan> All: No objections
20:30:55 <Jan>  > keyboard trap
20:30:57 <Jan> PROPOSED: New term:
20:30:58 <Jan> keyboard trap
20:31:00 <Jan> A user interface phenomenon in which the keyboard may be used to move
20:31:02 <Jan> focus to, but not from, a control or group of controls.
20:32:19 <Jan> A user interface situation in which the keyboard may be used to move focus to, but not from, a control or group of controls.
20:32:52 <jeanne> +1
20:33:46 <Jan> All: No objections
20:33:51 <Jan>  > A.3.2.3:
20:33:53 <Jan>  > moving target
20:33:54 <Jan>  > selectable component
20:33:56 <Jan> CURRENT:
20:33:58 <Jan> If the user interface includes any moving targets for authors' actions 
20:34:00 <Jan> (e.g.,a selectable component of an animation), then authors can stop 
20:34:01 <Jan> that movement.
20:34:03 <Jan> PROPOSED:
20:34:05 <Jan> If a user interface component that accepts mouse input is capable of 
20:34:07 <Jan> movement (e.g., animated vector graphic), provide authors with the 
20:34:09 <Jan> option to stop the movement.
20:34:40 <Jan> All: No objections.
20:35:15 <Jan>  > A.3.3.1:
20:35:17 <Jan>  > static view
20:35:18 <Jan>  > time-based content
20:35:20 <Jan>  > fixed state
20:35:22 <Jan> CURRENT:
20:35:24 <Jan> If an editing view renders content (e.g., WYSIWYG) then the author has 
20:35:26 <Jan> the global option of a static view in which time-based content appears 
20:35:27 <Jan> in a fixed state.
20:35:29 <Jan> PROPOSED:
20:35:30 <Jan> If an editing view renders time-based content (e.g., animations), 
20:35:32 <Jan> provide authors with the global option of rendering only the initial 
20:35:33 <Jan> state of time-based content.
20:36:09 <Jan> All: No objections
20:37:08 <Jan>  > A.3.4.4:
20:37:10 <Jan>  > Doesn't above, below, preceding, etc. depend on navigation order?
20:37:12 <Jan> OPEN ISSUE: Is this really unclear?
20:37:30 <Jan> A.3.4.4 Navigate Tree Structures: If an editing view displays a structured element set, authors can, with a simple action, move the editing focus from any element to other elements in the set with any of the following relationships (if they exist) (Level AA): 
20:37:32 <Jan> •(a) Parent: the element immediately above, 
20:37:34 <Jan> •(b) Child: the first element immediately below, 
20:37:35 <Jan> •(c) Previous Sibling: the element immediately preceding at the same level, and 
20:37:37 <Jan> •(d) Next Sibling: the element immediately following at the same level. 
20:39:19 <Jan> All: Group is ok with current wording
20:39:33 <Zakim> -JuttaT
20:39:56 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
20:40:38 <Jan>  > accessibility option-setting "wizard"
20:40:40 <Jan> CURRENT:
20:40:41 <Jan> ...an accessibility option-setting "wizard" to configure options related 
20:40:43 <Jan> to Part A
20:40:44 <Jan> PROPOSED:
20:40:46 <Jan> ..."wizard"-type feature that helps them to configure any 
20:40:48 <Jan> accessibility-related preference settings related to Part A
20:42:03 <Jan> A.3.6.3 Options Wizard: Authors are provided with an accessibility option-setting "wizard" to configure options related to Part A. (Level AAA)
20:42:12 <Jan> JT: INteractive dialog
20:44:29 <Jan> A.3.6.3 Interactive Options Assistance: An interactive dialog helps helps with  configure options related to Part A. (Level AAA)
20:45:27 <Jan> A.3.6.3 Interactive Options Assistance: An interactive mechanism helps authors configure options related to Part A. (Level AAA)
20:46:07 <Jan> All: No objections
20:47:11 <Jan> A.3.6.3 Options Assistance: An interactive mechanism helps authors configure options related to Part A. (Level AAA)
20:47:17 <Jan> All: No objections
20:47:53 <Jan>  > A.3.7.1:
20:47:55 <Jan>  > help system
20:47:56 <Jan> CURRENT:
20:47:58 <Jan> If a preview is provided, then it is possible to return from the preview 
20:47:59 <Jan> using a simple action which is documented in the help system.
20:48:01 <Jan> PROPOSED:
20:48:03 <Jan> If a *preview* is provided, provide a *documented* keyboard accessible 
20:48:05 <Jan> mechanism for returning to an *editing view* from the preview.
20:48:43 <Jan> All: No objections
20:48:45 <jeanne> +1
20:49:03 <Jan> > A.4.1.1:
20:49:05 <Jan>  > irreversible
20:49:06 <Jan> CURRENT:
20:49:08 <Jan> reversible actions
20:49:10 <Jan> Authoring actions that, by their nature, can be completely undone so 
20:49:11 <Jan> that the system returns to the state it was in before the action. 
20:49:13 <Jan> Actions that are not reversible may include certain save and delete 
20:49:14 <Jan> actions as well as actions made in a collaborative environment that 
20:49:16 <Jan> another author has begun to work with.
20:49:18 <Jan> PROPOSED:
20:49:20 <Jan> reversible actions
20:49:22 <Jan> Authoring actions that, by their nature, can be completely undone so 
20:49:23 <Jan> that the system returns to the state it was in before the action.
20:49:25 <Jan> *Irreversible actions* are actions that cannot be reversed and may 
20:49:27 <Jan> include certain save and delete actions as well as actions made in a 
20:49:28 <Jan> collaborative environment that another author has begun to work with.
20:50:21 <Jan> All: No objections
20:51:09 <Jan>  > third-party feed
20:51:11 <Jan> CURRENT:
20:51:13 <Jan> third-party feed
20:51:14 <Jan> PROPOSED:
20:51:16 <Jan> an RSS feed from a third-party
20:51:32 <Jan> All: No objections
20:52:27 <Jan> JT: Actually...
20:52:42 <Jan> Responsibility After Authoring Sessions: Authoring tools are not responsible for accessibility problems that result from carrying out instructions made by the author during authoring sessions (e.g., the content of a third-party feed specified by the author), but they are responsible if the changes are automatically generated (e.g., the developer makes site wide changes to a CMS). 
20:53:44 <Jan> JT: Let's use "third-pary content"
21:01:07 <Jan> Action Jan: Track down our text re: passing through content authored on other tools
21:01:07 <trackbot> Created ACTION-144 - Track down our text re: passing through content authored on other tools [on Jan Richards - due 2009-05-04].
21:01:08 <Jan>  
21:01:20 <Zakim> -[IPcaller]
21:02:26 <Greg> Next meeting May 11, 2009
21:02:43 <Zakim> -Jeanne
21:02:44 <Zakim> -AnnM
21:02:44 <Zakim> -GregP
21:02:46 <AnnM> AnnM has left #au
21:02:48 <Zakim> -Jan
21:02:51 <Zakim> -Andrew
21:02:52 <Zakim> WAI_AUWG()3:00PM has ended
21:02:53 <Zakim> Attendees were Jeanne, +0208123aaaa, AnnM, Andrew, +1.703.678.aabb, Jan, GregP, Tim_Boland, JuttaT, [IPcaller]
21:04:18 <Jan> RRSAgent, make minutes
21:04:18 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/04/27-au-minutes.html Jan
21:04:39 <Jan> RRSAgent, set logs public
21:17:23 <Jan> Zakim, bye
21:17:23 <Zakim> Zakim has left #au
21:17:29 <Jan> RRSAgent, bye
21:17:29 <RRSAgent> I see 4 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2009/04/27-au-actions.rdf :
21:17:29 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Greg and Jeanne details for face to face [1]
21:17:29 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/04/27-au-irc#T20-06-41
21:17:29 <RRSAgent> ACTION: JS to research any necessary preparation for Last Call draft to be completed before the F2F.   [2]
21:17:29 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/04/27-au-irc#T20-12-59
21:17:29 <RRSAgent> ACTION: JS to update the definition of authoring tool from the introduction with the edits above.   [3]
21:17:29 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/04/27-au-irc#T20-22-46
21:17:29 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Jan to Track down our text re: passing through content authored on other tools [4]
21:17:29 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/04/27-au-irc#T21-01-07