19:54:29 RRSAgent has joined #au 19:54:29 logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/04/20-au-irc 19:56:09 akim, this will be AUWG 19:56:13 zakim, this will be AUWG 19:56:13 ok, JR; I see WAI_AUWG()3:00PM scheduled to start 56 minutes ago 19:56:19 Meeting: WAI AU 19:56:32 Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-au/2009AprJun/0017.html 19:56:47 Chair: Jutta Treviranus 20:00:34 AnnM has joined #au 20:01:05 zakim code? 20:01:07 zakim, code? 20:01:07 the conference code is 2894 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), JR 20:01:16 WAI_AUWG()3:00PM has now started 20:01:23 +??P3 20:01:37 + +44.208.123.aaaa 20:01:40 zakim, ??P3 is really JR\ 20:01:40 +JR\; got it 20:01:49 zakim,JR\ is really JR 20:01:49 sorry, JR, I do not recognize a party named 'JR\' 20:03:55 zakim, who's here? 20:03:55 On the phone I see JR, +44.208.123.aaaa 20:03:56 On IRC I see AnnM, RRSAgent, Zakim, JR, trackbot 20:07:28 +[IPcaller] 20:07:50 zakim, [IPcaller] is really JR 20:07:50 +JR; got it 20:08:53 + +1.561.582.aabb 20:09:33 zakim, +1.561.582.aabb is really SueAnn 20:09:33 +SueAnn; got it 20:09:53 zakim,who'son the phone? 20:09:53 I don't understand your question, JR. 20:09:56 zakim,who's on the phone? 20:09:56 On the phone I see JR, +44.208.123.aaaa, JR.a, SueAnn 20:10:19 zakim, who's making noise? 20:10:19 I am sorry, JR; I don't have the necessary resources to track talkers right now 20:10:24 +Greg_Pisocky 20:10:36 zakim, JR.a is really JuttaT 20:10:36 +JuttaT; got it 20:12:49 Topic: B.2.4 20:13:13 Topic: F2F Planning 20:14:39 AM: Ann can attend by teleconference 20:14:58 Action JR: Announce the F2F data and time 20:14:58 Created ACTION-140 - Announce the F2F data and time [on Jan Richards - due 2009-04-27]. 20:15:26 jtrevir has joined #au 20:15:28 Topic: B.2.4 20:15:37 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-au/2009AprJun/0010.html 20:16:24 JR B.2.4 Assist authors with maintaining alternative content fornon-text objects. 20:16:54 Rationale: Improperly generated alternative content can create 20:16:56 accessibility problems and interfere with accessibility checking. 20:18:17 JT: B.2.4 Assist authors with managing alternative content for non-text objects. 20:18:41 B.2.4.1 Editable: Authors are able to modify alternative content for 20:18:42 non-text objects. This includes types of alternative content that may 20:18:44 not typically be displayed on screen by user agents. 20:19:44 B.2.4.2 Automated suggestions: During the authoring session, the 20:19:46 authoring tool can automatically suggest *alternative content* for 20:19:47 non-text objects under the following conditions: 20:19:49 - author control: authors have the opportunity to accept, modify, or 20:19:51 reject the suggested *alternative content* prior to insertion. 20:19:52 - relevant sources: the suggested *alternative content* is only derived 20:19:54 from sources designed to be fulfill the same purpose (e.g., suggesting 20:19:55 the value of an image's "description" metadata field as a long description). 20:21:37 B.2.4.3 Let user agents repair: After the authoring session, the 20:21:39 authoring tool does not attempt to repair *alternative content* for 20:21:40 non-text objects using text content that is equally available to user 20:21:42 agents (e.g., the filename). (Level A) 20:22:18 Greg has joined #au 20:22:23 B.2.4.4 Special Values: The authoring tool follows recommendations on 20:22:25 special values for *alternative content* (e.g., in HTML4 alt="" denotes 20:22:26 -JuttaT 20:22:27 images that should be ignored by assistive technology). (Level A) 20:23:00 +??P7 20:23:16 B.2.4.5 Save for Reuse: Provide authors with the option of having 20:23:18 any *recognized* plain text alternative content that they enter (e.g., 20:23:20 short text labels, long descriptions) stored for future reuse (Level AA). 20:23:47 Applicability Note: 20:23:49 - This guideline applies when non-text objects are specified by 20:23:50 authors (e.g., an author inserts an image). When non-text objects are 20:23:52 automatically added by the authoring tool, Guideline B.1.3 applies. 20:23:53 Sueann has joined #au 20:23:56 +Tim_Boland 20:24:47 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-au/2009AprJun/0016.html 20:25:13 To help people understand the implications of the proposal 20:25:15 (http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-au/2009AprJun/0010.html), 20:25:16 here's an example workflow of a person uploading a bunch of images to a 20:25:18 photo-sharing site: 20:25:19 1. author logs into the photo sharing site 20:25:21 2. author uses the uploader feature to upload 50 pics of a vacation 20:25:23 (XYZ0001.png, XYZ0002.png,..., XYZ0050.png) into an album the author 20:25:25 calls "Paris 2009". 20:25:26 3. a prompt appears asking the author to write descriptive labels for 20:25:28 each image to facilitate text searching and access by people with 20:25:30 disabilities. [This meets B.2.1.1 (prompting for accessibility info. 20:25:31 req.) and also B.2.4.1.] 20:25:32 4. Since no label or description is included in the photo metadata no 20:25:34 default @alt value is provided. [meeting B.2.4.2] 20:25:35 5. the author logs off without adding individual text alternatives 20:25:37 (ending their "authoring session") 20:25:38 6. the photo sharing site assigns the @alt strings "Photo 1 of 50 of 20:25:40 album Paris 2009" [meeting B.2.4.3 because this info isn't equally 20:25:41 available to user agents] 20:25:43 7. when the author logs back in they still see indicators on the images 20:25:44 and/or the album that reminds them that the images are still lacking 20:25:46 descriptive labels. [meeting B.2.2.1 (Check Accessibility req.)] 20:25:48 NOTE: the page will NOT meet WCAG 2.0 because the text alternative does 20:25:50 not serve the equivalent purpose - BUT REMEMBER there is no absolute 20:25:53 requirement of ATAG 2.0 that all user-specified content meet WCAG 2.0. 20:30:29 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-au/2009AprJun/0010.html 20:34:00 +1 20:39:12 -??P7 20:39:40 +??P0 20:40:42 Resolution: Put in the proposed B.2.4 20:42:19 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-au/2009AprJun/0014.html 20:42:43 Topic: TB's comments with JR's proposals: 20:43:00 Topic: > Global Note: the "[UAAG 1.0]" designations should be linked to 20:43:02 > appropriate version/spec.. 20:43:22 All: Agree 20:43:58 CURRENT: 20:44:00 ATAG 2.0 defines an "authoring tool" as any application, part of an 20:44:02 application, or collection of applications that authors interact with to 20:44:03 create, modify or assemble Web content to be used by other people.PROPOSED: 20:44:05 ATAG 2.0 defines an "authoring tool" as any software application, part 20:44:06 of an application, or collection of applications that authors interact 20:44:08 with to create, modify or assemble Web content to be used by other people. 20:44:32 All: Agree 20:44:53 CURRENT: 20:44:55 - WYSIWYG editors, plain text editors (embedded and stand-alone) 20:44:57 PROPOSED: 20:44:58 - WYSIWYG editors, plain text editors 20:45:18 All: OK 20:45:31 GP: Actually... 20:45:37 GP: OK 20:46:09 Content => Web Content 20:46:14 All: OK 20:46:24 PROPOSED: 20:46:26 APPLICATIONS THAT ARE USED TO CREATE CONTENT IN REAL TIME (e.g., chats, 20:46:27 collaboration tools, whiteboards, etc.) are only required to meet Part 20:46:29 A. However, many guidelines in Part B may still usefully apply, 20:46:31 especially if the AUTHORING tool archives as Web content. For more 20:46:33 information, please see the Techniques - Appendix E: Real-time content 20:46:35 production. 20:46:54 All: OK 20:47:45 PROPOSED: 20:47:47 Generally use "authoring tool" instead of just "tool". 20:47:57 All: OK 20:48:23 functions related to accessibility=>accessible content support features 20:48:48 All: OK 20:49:11 > Relationship to the WCAG: 20:49:13 > Do we want to still list "WCAG1.0" after "e.g.", since WCAG2.0 is 20:49:15 > now a rec? 20:49:51 http://www.w3.org/TR/2009/WD-ATAG20-20090217/#intro-rel-wcag 20:51:00 JR: Concerns about older tools 20:51:08 GP: WCAG2 is the current standard 20:51:50 TB: WCAG group is trying to push adoption of next WCAG version 20:54:47 wcag 2.0 only 20:56:07 TB: +1 20:56:10 AM:+1 20:56:42 JT: Brings up point of system meeting wcag2 vs. all pages meeting wcag2 20:59:07 JT: WCAG2 takes the "every page" approach 20:59:48 -??P0 21:00:20 -Tim_Boland 21:00:43 - +44.208.123.aaaa 21:00:44 -SueAnn 21:00:45 -Greg_Pisocky 21:00:50 I also remembered more than just wysig and text required, template, command line driven 21:00:53 -JR 21:00:54 WAI_AUWG()3:00PM has ended 21:00:55 Attendees were +44.208.123.aaaa, JR\, JR, SueAnn, Greg_Pisocky, JuttaT, Tim_Boland 21:08:49 RRSAgent, make minutes 21:08:49 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/04/20-au-minutes.html JR 21:12:52 RRSAgent, set logs public 21:12:58 Zakim, bye 21:12:58 Zakim has left #au 21:13:03 RRSAgent, bye 21:13:03 I see 1 open action item saved in http://www.w3.org/2009/04/20-au-actions.rdf : 21:13:03 ACTION: JR to Announce the F2F data and time [1] 21:13:03 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/04/20-au-irc#T20-14-58