11:55:35 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #pling
11:55:35 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/04/08-pling-irc
11:55:49 <rigo> rrsagent, please set log public
11:55:59 <rigo> zakim, this will be PLING
11:55:59 <Zakim> ok, rigo; I see P3P_PLING()8:00AM scheduled to start in 5 minutes
11:56:07 <rigo> zakim, code?
11:56:07 <Zakim> the conference code is 75464 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), rigo
11:56:46 <renato> Which countries are +33 and +44
11:56:46 <rigo> agenda: http://www.w3.org/Policy/pling/wiki/2009-04-08
11:57:00 <rigo> +33 is France and +44 is UK
11:57:15 <rigo> rigo has changed the topic to: Agenda: http://www.w3.org/Policy/pling/wiki/2009-04-08
11:57:36 <Frank_W> Frank_W has joined #pling
11:58:52 <rigo> Hallo Frank
11:58:54 <Ashok_Malhotra> Ashok_Malhotra has joined #pling
11:58:59 <rigo> Hi Ashok
11:59:08 <Ashok_Malhotra> 'morning
11:59:24 <Ashok_Malhotra> or afternoon for you!
12:00:04 <Zakim> P3P_PLING()8:00AM has now started
12:00:12 <Zakim> + +49.615.1.aaaa
12:00:39 <Frank_W> Hallo Rigo
12:00:55 <Zakim> +Kevin
12:00:58 <Zakim> - +49.615.1.aaaa
12:00:59 <Zakim> + +49.615.1.aaaa
12:01:10 <rigo> zakim, Kevin is really Rigo
12:01:10 <Zakim> +Rigo; got it
12:01:25 <rigo> Hallo Frank, Du warst einfach der erste
12:01:27 <Zakim> + +0519957aabb
12:01:31 <Frank_W> ja
12:01:41 <rigo> zakim, aabb is Renato
12:01:50 <Zakim> +Renato; got it
12:01:53 <Zakim> +Ashok_Malhotra
12:02:17 <tlr> zakim, call thomas-skype
12:02:21 <Zakim> ok, tlr; the call is being made
12:02:25 <Zakim> +Thomas
12:02:39 <tlr> zakim, I am thomas
12:02:41 <tlr> zakim, mute me
12:02:42 <Zakim> + +358.504.87aacc
12:02:50 <Zakim> ok, tlr, I now associate you with Thomas
12:02:52 <tlr> zakim, aacc is hannes
12:02:54 <Zakim> Thomas should now be muted
12:02:54 <rigo> zakim, aacc is Hannes
12:02:55 <Frank_W> zakim, +49.615.1.aaaa is Frank
12:03:08 <Zakim> +hannes; got it
12:03:11 <Zakim> sorry, rigo, I do not recognize a party named 'aacc'
12:03:15 <Zakim> +Frank; got it
12:04:44 <rigo> zakim, who is here?
12:04:44 <Zakim> On the phone I see Frank, Rigo, Renato, Ashok_Malhotra, Thomas (muted), hannes
12:04:47 <Zakim> On IRC I see Ashok_Malhotra, Frank_W, RRSAgent, Zakim, rigo, tlr, renato
12:04:54 <rigo> Renato?
12:05:25 <renato> Hi
12:05:51 <rigo> +Renato
12:06:08 <rigo> zakim, who is here
12:06:08 <Zakim> rigo, you need to end that query with '?'
12:06:14 <rigo> zakim, who is here?
12:06:14 <Zakim> On the phone I see Frank, Rigo, Renato, Ashok_Malhotra, Thomas (muted), hannes
12:06:16 <Zakim> On IRC I see Ashok_Malhotra, Frank_W, RRSAgent, Zakim, rigo, tlr, renato
12:06:55 <tlr> ack t
12:06:58 <tlr> zakim, mute me
12:06:58 <Zakim> Thomas should now be muted
12:09:01 <Zakim> +??P12
12:09:16 <rigo> zakim, ??P12 is Marco
12:09:20 <Zakim> +Marco; got it
12:09:52 <rigo> scribenick: rigo
12:09:55 <rigo> scribe: rigo
12:10:15 <rigo> A Media annotations:
12:10:38 <rigo> RI: there is now a requirements working draft, there is an ontology for media objects
12:11:14 <rigo> ... problem we had with looking at XMPP was that it just represented the ususal stuff
12:11:24 <rigo> ...what is the link to the rights information
12:11:39 <rigo> ...looked into it and saw nothing about rights information
12:11:45 <rigo> ...got back to them
12:11:54 <rigo> ...no help from that document
12:12:07 <rigo> ...we need to decide what to do next
12:12:21 <rigo> ...what problem they try to solve 
12:13:50 <rigo> RW: suggest to get some issue to them and make sure it is recorded in issue tracker and wait for them to hit the next obstacle to take our request into account
12:13:56 <rigo> RI: ok
12:14:39 <rigo> Action: Renato and Rigo to draft request to Media Annotations WG on http://www.w3.org/TR/2009/WD-media-annot-reqs-20090119/
12:16:01 <Frank_W> zakim, mute me
12:16:01 <Zakim> sorry, Frank_W, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you
12:17:04 <rigo> zakim, Frank is Frank_W
12:17:04 <Zakim> +Frank_W; got it
12:18:05 <rigo> B: Social Networking Workshop
12:18:22 <rigo> RI: Incubator of social networking keeps gaining speed 
12:18:50 <rigo> ...expect to get a lot of attention from them in the future as there are important policy questions to solve
12:18:54 <Ashok_Malhotra> It would be good if some of us were able to join the XG
12:19:26 <rigo> ...look also at workshop report: http://www.w3.org/2008/09/msnws/report.html
12:19:49 <rigo> RI: special attention to PLING: http://www.w3.org/2008/09/msnws/report.html#Privacy
12:20:04 <rigo> ...became now part of the incubator group
12:20:28 <rigo> ...there PLING can play a major role in shaping XGs response to policy issues of social networks
12:20:56 <rigo> ...scheduled to come together next week, will have more information by then
12:22:29 <tlr> rigo: primelife active in social network space
12:22:32 <tlr> ... internal W3C meeting ...
12:22:36 <tlr> ... need broad coordination ...
12:22:48 <tlr> ... decent work in chartering; XG charter looked well ...
12:22:52 <tlr> ... had to be filled out ...
12:23:10 <tlr> ... people present have different expertise frmo PLING folks ...
12:23:15 <tlr> ... need interaction; major challenge for future ...
12:23:55 <rigo> RI: lot of overlap with Primelife, so PLING could be a bridge and make sure they move into the right direction
12:24:16 <rigo> RI: will send call for participation on the list
12:24:32 <rigo> HT: has someone have an overiew
12:24:38 <rigo> RI: about XG?
12:24:57 <rigo> HT: should comment on some aspects, but too fuzzy
12:25:22 <rigo> RI: PLING has to step up addressing them, showing solutions
12:25:28 <tlr> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/charter
12:25:33 <tlr> q+
12:26:00 <tlr> ack t
12:26:40 <rigo> tlr: core charter is not to reinvent wheel, but make some state of situation
12:27:03 <tlr> zakim, mute thomas
12:27:03 <Zakim> Thomas should now be muted
12:27:07 <rigo> ...opportunity to have the landscape description intended also contain privacy isssue
12:27:31 <rigo> HT: would not know what to because it is such a large field
12:28:01 <rigo> RI: planning of the charter , there were lots of detailed charters, some very specific about privacy
12:28:08 <rigo> ...should be on the wiki
12:29:04 <rigo> RI: will send link later to mailing-list
12:29:20 <rigo> =========================================
12:29:28 <rigo> RRSAgent, pointer?
12:29:28 <RRSAgent> See http://www.w3.org/2009/04/08-pling-irc#T12-29-28
12:29:43 <rigo> RI: one comment made with XG
12:30:12 <rigo> ...PLING is planned to go until June 2009, so need to discuss extension
12:30:57 <rigo> RW: continue if we have commitment from chairs
12:31:11 <rigo> =========================================
12:31:50 <rigo> How can the TAG help us?
12:31:55 <rigo> ashok?
12:32:35 <rigo> AM: TAG is thinking about how to make the web better
12:32:55 <rigo> ...one of the problems keeps coming up is privacy, access, policy, security
12:33:14 <rigo> ... they are thinking about what to do and they are asking us on help what to do
12:33:34 <rigo> ...they can do a number of things, start WG, start XG, publish whitepaper
12:33:50 <rigo> ...can work with other SDOs like oasis openID
12:34:07 <rigo> ...it is an open offer. We are to think about what we would like to address
12:34:26 <rigo> ...what would be helpful?
12:34:44 <rigo> RI: comments
12:34:55 <rigo> HT: what is the specific context?
12:35:24 <tlr> q+ to note that helping with community building might be the best thing here
12:35:37 <rigo> AM: TAG is thinking about how to help people in this area
12:35:48 <rigo> ...would like this area addressed, question is how
12:36:12 <tlr> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/
12:37:26 <rigo> HT: asking for feedback from all WGs is a bit much
12:37:44 <rigo> AM: but we are a group of experts, what is our point of view
12:37:48 <rigo> ...personal view
12:37:52 <tlr> q?
12:38:35 <rigo> HT: have experience only in location, and want that people implement and deploy privacy solutions
12:39:20 <tlr> ack t
12:39:21 <Zakim> Thomas, you wanted to note that helping with community building might be the best thing here
12:39:45 <rigo> HT: recent interaction, with W3C was not that good about geopriv
12:40:02 <rigo> AM: would you like to have something more formal
12:40:35 <rigo> TLR: there is a complex tradeoff, geolocation privacy Hannes is referring too
12:40:52 <rigo> ...TAG needs some broader concept
12:41:16 <rigo> ...important to know what one doesn't know and TAG should take a facilitating approach
12:41:51 <rigo> ...had a WS security in London, advance notice to AC will come in some time about follow up work
12:42:06 <rigo> ...useful to have TAGs view and opinion
12:42:23 <rigo> ...aim would be the security review of the Web as we know it
12:42:31 <tlr> zakim, mute me
12:42:31 <Zakim> Thomas should now be muted
12:42:41 <rigo> ...may be a more specific 
12:42:51 <tlr> +1 to the IAB comparison
12:42:52 <rigo> ...focus
12:43:26 <rigo> HT: TAG more like IAB, more general, just saying privacy important
12:43:53 <rigo> ...if it goes specific, there are a million reasons why it doesn't apply
12:43:57 <tlr> q+
12:44:02 <tlr> ack t
12:44:20 <tlr> zakim, who is making noise?
12:44:31 <Zakim> tlr, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Marco (5%), Thomas (86%)
12:44:41 <Zakim> -Marco
12:44:42 <rigo> tlr: useful guideance that may involve TAG, 
12:45:17 <rigo> recent example, cross site request forgery TAG would have helped
12:45:28 <rigo> HTTP WG just said it is a non issue
12:45:56 <rigo> ...it is possible to have such a high level view of web architecture that the actual issues are invisible
12:46:05 <rigo> ...lacking very much current
12:46:30 <tlr> zakim, mute me
12:46:30 <Zakim> Thomas should now be muted
12:46:46 <rigo> ...a number of arch questions to address, e.g. widget uris where we lacking a connection between concrete problems and architecture
12:47:24 <rigo> HT: if you want to do serious examination on why implementationn is going, you have to scope down
12:47:43 <rigo> ...only a very small subset of what you have been talking about
12:48:13 <renato> What role does "policy" play in the "Semantic Web Layer Cake"?
12:48:20 <renato> http://www.w3.org/2004/Talks/0412-RDF-functions/slide4-0.html
12:48:23 <tlr> zakim, unmute me
12:48:23 <Zakim> Thomas should no longer be muted
12:48:25 <rigo> HT: as a starting point, who would write that down
12:48:56 <rigo> tlr: HT, you are correct that low level documents are the more useful ones
12:49:40 <rigo> ...but also high level needed, but there is always this tension, what low level WG is thinking and what the TAG's view is
12:49:48 <tlr> zakim, mute me
12:49:48 <Zakim> Thomas should now be muted
12:49:52 <rigo> ...so the TAG is right to keep out of the details mostly
12:50:28 <rigo> HT: following project @ MIT would produce whitepaper on security and privacy, 
12:50:39 <renato> but the "TAG Findings" are all very low low level stuff....
12:50:45 <rigo> ...was difficult to come into generalization
12:51:24 <renato> A latter new cake: <http://www.w3.org/2007/03/layerCake.png>
12:52:32 <tlr> ack t
12:52:59 <rigo> HT: after meeting with geolocation WG, geopriv is also under way to revise 
12:53:20 <rigo> ...one architecture document, still draft, 
12:53:25 <rigo> tlr: pointer!!
12:53:34 <tlr> zakim, mute me
12:53:34 <Zakim> Thomas should now be muted
12:54:38 <rigo> AM: collecting Whitepaper is good idea
12:54:58 <tlr> ack t
12:55:02 <rigo> ...tlr please write email to TAG about security issue from London Workshop
12:55:21 <tlr> zakim, mute me
12:55:21 <Zakim> Thomas should now be muted
12:55:24 <rigo> tlr: will have to talk to team-contact, either through me or through DanC
12:55:41 <rigo> RI: will not solve this challenge on this agenda, 
12:55:56 <tlr> s/team-contact, either through me or through DanC/team-contact (DanC) anyway; you'll hear either from me directly or from Dan/
12:56:15 <rigo> ...opportunity for us to report and demystifying and provide a roadmap forward for W3C
12:56:22 <rigo> ...to have a group note
12:56:43 <rigo> =============================================
12:56:47 <rigo> RRSAgent, pointer?
12:56:47 <RRSAgent> See http://www.w3.org/2009/04/08-pling-irc#T12-56-47
12:57:42 <rigo> RI: only few minutes left, just running over the long standing remaining items
12:57:58 <rigo> ..will add "whitepapers" to wiki to collect
12:58:19 <rigo> ...liaisons?...
12:58:28 <rigo> ...nothing special here?
12:58:29 <tlr> nothing new from me, beyond what I just said
13:00:25 <rigo> RI: ODRL Workshop in Nancy in October
13:01:01 <rigo> ... it will be colocated with an IFIP conference
13:01:27 <renato> 9th IFIP Conference on e-Business, e-Services, and e-Society on 23-25 Sep 2009.
13:01:36 <renato> http://i3e2009.loria.fr/
13:01:41 <rigo> zakim, please draft minutes
13:01:41 <Zakim> I don't understand 'please draft minutes', rigo
13:01:50 <tlr> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:01:50 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/04/08-pling-minutes.html tlr
13:02:07 <rigo> RI: F2F meeting this year
13:02:26 <rigo> ...we decided not to meet on TPAC...
13:02:39 <rigo> ...more flexible this year
13:03:23 <rigo> AM: I will be at TPAC, if we aren't gonna meet there, it will be difficult to travel, especially if not in US
13:03:58 <Zakim> -hannes
13:04:40 <rigo> ===============================
13:05:41 <rigo> adjourned
13:05:50 <rigo> too early :)
13:06:23 <rigo> wanted to note that suggestion for F2F locations and agenda have to be continued on the mailing-list
13:06:36 <rigo> next meeting is 13 May 2009
13:07:00 <tlr> regrets for 13 may, will be following a WG f2f by phone
13:07:01 <Zakim> -Ashok_Malhotra
13:07:02 <tlr> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:07:02 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/04/08-pling-minutes.html tlr
13:07:04 <Zakim> -Rigo
13:07:06 <Zakim> -Frank_W
13:07:07 <Zakim> -Renato
13:07:09 <Zakim> -Thomas
13:07:11 <Zakim> P3P_PLING()8:00AM has ended
13:07:12 <Zakim> Attendees were Rigo, +0519957aabb, Renato, Ashok_Malhotra, Thomas, +358.504.87aacc, hannes, Marco, Frank_W