IRC log of mediafrag on 2009-04-01

Timestamps are in UTC.

09:01:13 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #mediafrag
09:01:13 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/04/01-mediafrag-irc
09:01:15 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs public
09:01:15 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #mediafrag
09:01:17 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be IA_MFWG
09:01:17 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot; I see IA_MFWG()5:00AM scheduled to start now
09:01:18 [trackbot]
Meeting: Media Fragments Working Group Teleconference
09:01:18 [trackbot]
Date: 01 April 2009
09:01:47 [raphael]
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-fragment/2009Mar/0089.html
09:01:53 [raphael]
Chair: Erik, Raphael
09:02:01 [raphael]
Regrets: Michael, Yves, Conrad
09:02:01 [jackjansen]
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09:02:19 [jackjansen]
zakim, code?
09:02:19 [Zakim]
the conference code is 3724 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), jackjansen
09:02:34 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/04/01-mediafrag-minutes.html raphael
09:02:48 [Zakim]
IA_MFWG()5:00AM has now started
09:02:55 [Zakim]
+raphael
09:03:14 [Zakim]
+??P1
09:03:22 [jackjansen]
zakim, ??P1 is me
09:03:22 [Zakim]
+jackjansen; got it
09:04:32 [Zakim]
+ +0329331aaaa
09:05:00 [raphael]
zakim, aaaa is Davy
09:05:00 [Zakim]
+Davy; got it
09:06:57 [Zakim]
-jackjansen
09:07:26 [Zakim]
+??P1
09:07:39 [jackjansen]
zakim, ??P1 is me
09:07:39 [Zakim]
+jackjansen; got it
09:08:55 [raphael]
zakim, Davy is Davy_Erik
09:08:55 [Zakim]
+Davy_Erik; got it
09:09:53 [raphael]
Present: Erik, Davy, Jack, Raphael
09:10:17 [raphael]
Scribe: Raphael
09:10:30 [raphael]
scribenick: raphael
09:11:13 [raphael]
Topic: 1. Admin
09:12:03 [raphael]
Propose to accept the minutes of 25/03?
09:12:11 [raphael]
YEs
09:12:24 [raphael]
RESOLUTION: minutes of 25/03 are accepted
09:12:57 [raphael]
Raphael: should we move the telecon hour, to be more convenient for Silvia ?
09:13:31 [raphael]
Jack: I will miss one telecon every two weeks
09:13:42 [raphael]
Raphael: proposal to have the telecon 2 hours later
09:13:51 [raphael]
... to be more convenient for Silvia
09:14:06 [raphael]
ACTION: Raphael asks Silvia if she would like to have the telecon 2 hours later
09:14:06 [trackbot]
Sorry, couldn't find user - Raphael
09:14:10 [davy]
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09:14:11 [raphael]
trackbot, status
09:14:34 [raphael]
ACTION: Raphaël asks Silvia if she would like to have the telecon 2 hours later
09:14:34 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-54 - Asks Silvia if she would like to have the telecon 2 hours later [on Raphaël Troncy - due 2009-04-08].
09:14:47 [raphael]
Topic: 2. F2F meeting
09:14:59 [erik]
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09:15:33 [raphael]
Erik list the participants: Michael, Jack, Erik, Davy, Raphael, Conrad, David, Franck, Guillaume
09:16:07 [raphael]
... + Yves / Silvia on the phone
09:17:42 [raphael]
Topic: 3. WD Document
09:17:55 [raphael]
Erik: we will re-organize the section 5 significantly
09:19:02 [raphael]
Raphael: my proposal, finish the document by next Wed 8 of April, and vote for publishing the document
09:19:06 [raphael]
... in our next telecon
09:19:13 [raphael]
... make a quick publication request
09:19:23 [raphael]
and hope to have the document published on the 9th
09:19:34 [raphael]
Erik: agree
09:20:21 [jackjansen]
q+
09:20:34 [raphael]
zakim, ack jack
09:20:34 [Zakim]
I see no one on the speaker queue
09:20:45 [raphael]
zakim, ack jackjansen
09:20:45 [Zakim]
I see no one on the speaker queue
09:21:58 [raphael]
Jack: Michael took my action, because I was busy ... but perhaps I can take over
09:22:13 [raphael]
... I will send an email to Michael, to ask him if I can take over
09:23:27 [raphael]
Erik: difference between reference and informative sections?
09:24:06 [raphael]
Raphael: informative parts are just for giving hints to the reader, generally dtd or schemas
09:24:12 [raphael]
3.1: Syntax
09:25:54 [raphael]
Problem 1: not use '%' but spell it
09:26:13 [raphael]
ACTION: Yves to change the formal grammar to have 'percent' spelled
09:26:13 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-55 - Change the formal grammar to have 'percent' spelled [on Yves Lafon - due 2009-04-08].
09:26:34 [raphael]
Problem 2: use of single quote (') and sub-delims in utf8string
09:29:38 [raphael]
ACTION: Yves to change the formal grammar to have unreserved characters + %-escaped ones in utf8string and _not_ a set of pchars
09:29:38 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-56 - Change the formal grammar to have unreserved characters + %-escaped ones in utf8string and _not_ a set of pchars [on Yves Lafon - due 2009-04-08].
09:30:23 [raphael]
3.2: Technologies Survey
09:30:35 [raphael]
Erik and Davy will work on it on Monday / Tuesday
09:30:52 [raphael]
3.3: HTTP implementation
09:31:05 [raphael]
http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/wiki/HTTP_implementation
09:31:31 [raphael]
close ACTION-52
09:31:31 [trackbot]
ACTION-52 Replace all examples in the HTTP implementation wiki page with the video Jack took closed
09:32:40 [raphael]
Raphael: how can I have the byte ranges that correspond to my temporal interval?
09:34:03 [raphael]
Jack: now we are entering into a different problem, that is, should we do transcoding or not?
09:34:32 [raphael]
... the bytes range will be different depending on transcoding or not
09:34:53 [raphael]
Jack: I have just sent an email stating we should consider more the user
09:35:11 [raphael]
... see: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-fragment/2009Apr/0003.html
09:36:39 [raphael]
Raphael: I think we should go for your option 2, and define what is reasonable
09:37:01 [raphael]
... what is the point 4? Is it related to the in-context discussion?
09:37:07 [raphael]
Jack: no, no, no
09:39:07 [raphael]
Point 5: we leave that away, we haven't specified what the spatial cropping will actually do!
09:39:21 [raphael]
Point 3: it seems to be related to the issue: transcoding or not
09:39:41 [raphael]
Davy: if we want to re-syn the audio and video, then we need to transcode
09:40:23 [raphael]
Raphael: what is the worst thing that can happen?
09:40:32 [raphael]
Davy: the audio and video might not be aligned
09:41:14 [raphael]
Jack: the reason while I use a wget example, is that you want to store this piece and re-use it later on
09:42:01 [raphael]
Davy: my proposal was to do no transcoding and have a reasonable out-of-synch
09:42:07 [raphael]
... same than for the I-Frame
09:42:27 [raphael]
... we choose the closest timeframe
09:42:32 [raphael]
Jack: what is reasonable?
09:43:15 [raphael]
Davy: I think there is studies which show what is the largest not-synch temporal interval that users can support
09:44:10 [raphael]
Davy: you and I have different interpretation of what we allow for transcoding
09:44:20 [raphael]
... I prefer Jack's interpretation
09:44:50 [raphael]
Jack: I had interpreted it as "we will not standardise any type of fragmenting that we think cannot be implemented without using transcoding".
09:45:03 [raphael]
Davy: I interpret it as "an implementation is not allowed to do any transcoding".
09:45:15 [nessy]
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09:45:22 [raphael]
Davy also now prefers Jack's interpretation
09:45:34 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/04/01-mediafrag-minutes.html raphael
09:47:30 [raphael]
Jack: I think we can standardize a spec that can be implemented without transcoding
09:47:47 [raphael]
Raphael: I'm also now confused, it is different from your previous statement
09:48:12 [Zakim]
+nessy
09:49:46 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/04/01-mediafrag-minutes.html raphael
09:50:27 [raphael]
Jack: if we have no boundary cases for media fragments, it should work
09:53:04 [raphael]
Raphael: should we make the algorithm in the spec, that says, jump to the previous I-Frame, etc.
09:53:13 [raphael]
Jack: no, we should have in the spec, the user expectation
09:53:20 [raphael]
Present+: Silvia
09:53:56 [raphael]
Silvia: we should send larger sequence, in order to not transcode
09:53:58 [davy]
+1 to Silvia
09:54:04 [raphael]
+1 to Silvia
09:54:39 [raphael]
Silvia: get wider intervals, on a best-effort basis
09:55:46 [raphael]
Topic: 4. Implementation
09:56:37 [raphael]
Silvia: talk about the new off spec
09:56:42 [raphael]
s/off/ogg
09:57:47 [davy]
I think mp4 is also capable of skipping frames
09:58:49 [raphael]
Davy: the YouTube player is also working on a best effort, if you click on a time offset, then the player goes to the closest frame he can start to play
09:59:08 [davy]
s/Davy/Silvia
09:59:40 [raphael]
Raphael: what is the closest? can it be after?
09:59:51 [raphael]
Silvia: I think it always goes back in time
09:59:58 [raphael]
... I need to check, but this is my experience
10:00:39 [raphael]
close ACTION-53
10:00:39 [trackbot]
ACTION-53 Check whether ffmpeg can slide movies easily, need for implementation on client and server side closed
10:00:47 [Gui]
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10:01:38 [jackjansen]
give me an action
10:02:53 [Zakim]
-jackjansen
10:03:00 [raphael]
ACTION: Jack to enter formally in the tracker the ISSUE he has found, regarding a) transcoding and b) spatial cropping
10:03:00 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-57 - Enter formally in the tracker the ISSUE he has found, regarding a) transcoding and b) spatial cropping [on Jack Jansen - due 2009-04-08].
10:03:49 [raphael]
Silvia: I would like to have the telecon 2 hours later
10:04:51 [raphael]
Silvia: I think the section use case and requirements is ready
10:05:12 [Gui]
I agree
10:05:35 [raphael]
Look at http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/wiki/HTTP_implementation
10:06:07 [Gui]
Looking
10:06:29 [Gui]
I am all sorry for myself, I didn't know I was late till now ! :-( I thought we were back to normal hours.
10:12:06 [Zakim]
-Davy_Erik
10:12:07 [Zakim]
-nessy
10:12:07 [Zakim]
-raphael
10:12:09 [Zakim]
IA_MFWG()5:00AM has ended
10:12:10 [Zakim]
Attendees were raphael, jackjansen, +0329331aaaa, Davy_Erik, nessy
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10:12:24 [raphael]
Davy: I will use our platform to discover the mapping between seconds and bytes for this particular video
10:12:27 [raphael]
... and update the wiki
10:12:45 [raphael]
No, AOB, Meeting adjourned
10:12:52 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/04/01-mediafrag-minutes.html raphael
10:14:49 [raphael]
zakim, bye
10:14:49 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #mediafrag
10:15:25 [raphael]
RRSAgent, bye
10:15:25 [RRSAgent]
I see 5 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2009/04/01-mediafrag-actions.rdf :
10:15:25 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Raphael asks Silvia if she would like to have the telecon 2 hours later [1]
10:15:25 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/04/01-mediafrag-irc#T09-14-06
10:15:25 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Raphaël asks Silvia if she would like to have the telecon 2 hours later [2]
10:15:25 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/04/01-mediafrag-irc#T09-14-34
10:15:25 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Yves to change the formal grammar to have 'percent' spelled [3]
10:15:25 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/04/01-mediafrag-irc#T09-26-13
10:15:25 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Yves to change the formal grammar to have unreserved characters + %-escaped ones in utf8string and _not_ a set of pchars [4]
10:15:25 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/04/01-mediafrag-irc#T09-29-38
10:15:25 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Jack to enter formally in the tracker the ISSUE he has found, regarding a) transcoding and b) spatial cropping [5]
10:15:25 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/04/01-mediafrag-irc#T10-03-00