IRC log of tagmem on 2009-03-26

Timestamps are in UTC.

15:38:24 [RRSAgent]

RRSAgent has joined #tagmem

15:38:24 [RRSAgent]

logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/03/26-tagmem-irc

15:38:30 [ht]

zakim, this will be TAG

15:38:30 [Zakim]

I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, ht

15:38:39 [ht]

zakim, this will be tag

15:38:39 [Zakim]

I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, ht

15:38:45 [ht]

zakim, conferences?

15:38:45 [Zakim]

I don't understand your question, ht.

15:39:47 [ht]

Meeting: TAG telcon

15:39:52 [ht]

Chair: Noah Mendelsohn

15:39:57 [ht]

Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2009/03/26-agenda.html

15:40:08 [ht]

ht has changed the topic to: http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2009/03/26-agenda.html

15:41:00 [ht]

Scribe: Henry S. Thompson

15:41:03 [ht]

ScribeNick: ht

16:01:24 [ht]

zakim, this will be TAG

16:01:24 [Zakim]

ok, ht; I see TAG_Weekly()1:00PM scheduled to start in 59 minutes

16:14:08 [jar]

jar has joined #tagmem

16:53:54 [raman]

raman has joined #tagmem

16:59:10 [Zakim]

TAG_Weekly()1:00PM has now started

16:59:17 [Zakim]

+[IBMCambridge]

16:59:26 [noah]

zakim, [IBMCambridge] is me

16:59:26 [Zakim]

+noah; got it

17:00:34 [Ashok]

Ashok has joined #tagmem

17:01:44 [noah]

zakim, who is here?

17:01:44 [Zakim]

On the phone I see noah

17:01:45 [Zakim]

On IRC I see Ashok, raman, jar, RRSAgent, Zakim, ht, timbl, noah, trackbot

17:02:12 [ht]

zakim, please call ht-781

17:02:12 [Zakim]

ok, ht; the call is being made

17:02:14 [Zakim]

+Ht

17:03:00 [Zakim]

+Ashok_Malhotra

17:03:57 [johnk]

johnk has joined #tagmem

17:04:47 [noah]

zakim, who is here?

17:04:47 [Zakim]

On the phone I see noah, Ht, Ashok_Malhotra

17:04:49 [Zakim]

On IRC I see johnk, Ashok, raman, jar, RRSAgent, Zakim, ht, timbl, noah, trackbot

17:05:03 [noah]

Any of you other folks planning to call in?

17:05:06 [Zakim]

+John_Kemp

17:06:57 [Zakim]

+alanr

17:07:01 [jar]

sorry about that.

17:07:33 [noah]

zakim, who is here?

17:07:33 [Zakim]

On the phone I see noah, Ht, Ashok_Malhotra, John_Kemp, alanr

17:07:34 [Zakim]

On IRC I see johnk, Ashok, raman, jar, RRSAgent, Zakim, ht, timbl, noah, trackbot

17:07:41 [ht]

zakim, alan is jar

17:07:41 [Zakim]

+jar; got it

17:07:56 [raman]

zakim broken?

17:08:16 [Zakim]

+Raman

17:08:26 [jar]

alan R and I share a phone. zakim can't tell which of us is there

17:09:10 [Zakim]

+TimBL

17:09:15 [noah]

zakim, who is here?

17:09:15 [Zakim]

On the phone I see noah, Ht, Ashok_Malhotra, John_Kemp, jar, Raman, TimBL

17:09:17 [Zakim]

On IRC I see johnk, Ashok, raman, jar, RRSAgent, Zakim, ht, timbl, noah, trackbot

17:09:38 [ht]

Topic: Admin

17:10:08 [ht]

NM: Regrets: DC, LM

17:10:21 [ht]

NM: Telcon next week, LM to scribe

17:10:34 [ht]

TVR: Regrets for 9, 15, 23 April

17:10:44 [ht]

HST: Regrets for 9 April

17:11:19 [ht]

NM: JAR to scribe on 2 April if LM not available

17:11:30 [timbl]

My regrets for april 23

17:11:32 [ht]

s/next week/next week, 2 April/

17:12:24 [ht]

NM: Minutes of 12 April: http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2009/03/12-minutes

17:12:39 [ht]

RESOLUTION: Minutes of 12 April approved as published

17:12:52 [ht]

NM: Minutes of F2F now complete

17:13:24 [ht]

HST: I made one emendation, LM not here...

17:13:37 [johnk]

I'm dropping off the phone and going to dial back in - I don't know why my line is noisy, but will try again

17:13:42 [ht]

NM: We'll deal next week if not addressed by email

17:13:43 [Zakim]

-John_Kemp

17:14:04 [ht]

NM: Tech Plenary 2-6 November in Santa Clara - will we be there?

17:14:05 [Zakim]

+John_Kemp

17:14:36 [johnk]

hmmm

17:14:36 [ht]

... We should respond to this survey

17:15:09 [ht]

... I propose 1/2 day Monday, 1/2 day Friday, as usual

17:15:32 [ht]

... We haven't yet agreed to call this a formal meeting

17:17:46 [jar]

I suggest that maybe Noah is saying something similar to: Need formal meeting by end of November. Options: (a) near TPAC, (b) other. ?

17:17:53 [ht]

HST: I think your suggestion is correct

17:18:26 [ht]

NM: OK, I will respond saying we will have a TAG meeting, 1/2 day M and F

17:18:50 [ht]

HST: I think we should meet in September

17:19:48 [ht]

NM: I would welcome email to provide information about timing for a September meeting

17:20:20 [ht]

TBL: This is a good time to talk about September

17:20:40 [ht]

... I will send a tentative commitment I have then

17:21:11 [ht]

NM: I am inclined to oscillate between E and W Coast of the US

17:21:19 [ht]

... based on member locations

17:21:34 [ht]

... which suggests September on the W Coast . . .

17:22:17 [ht]

NM: I requested some input on TAG priorities in email going forward

17:22:33 [ht]

... Please put some time into this on email, so we don't have to burn telcon time on it

17:22:44 [ht]

Topic: HTML

17:27:27 [ht]

NM: trackbot, action-188?

17:27:36 [ht]

trackbot, action-188?

17:27:36 [trackbot]

Sorry, ht, I don't understand 'trackbot, action-188?'. Please refer to http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc for help

17:27:46 [ht]

trackbot, action-188

17:27:46 [trackbot]

Sorry, ht, I don't understand 'trackbot, action-188'. Please refer to http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc for help

17:27:54 [jar]

action-188?

17:27:54 [trackbot]

ACTION-188 -- Dan Connolly to investigate the URL/IRI/Larry Masinter possible resolution of the URL/HTML5 issue. -- due 2009-03-17 -- OPEN

17:27:54 [trackbot]

http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/188

17:28:13 [ht]

NM: That's been taken care of

17:28:23 [ht]

trackbot, close action-188

17:28:23 [trackbot]

ACTION-188 Investigate the URL/IRI/Larry Masinter possible resolution of the URL/HTML5 issue. closed

17:29:07 [ht]

Topic: webApplicationState-60 (ISSUE-60): Web Application State Management

17:30:12 [ht]

NM: The first link in the agenda is wrong

17:30:35 [ht]

webApplicationStae-60?

17:30:52 [ht]

issue-60?

17:30:52 [trackbot]

ISSUE-60 -- Web Application State Management -- OPEN

17:30:52 [trackbot]

http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/issues/60

17:32:13 [ht]

NM: We have had a draft from TVR for consideration: http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/doc/hash-in-url.html

17:32:17 [ht]

Dated 20 March 2008

17:32:35 [ht]

TVR: I'd like to publish this as a Working Draft

17:32:44 [ht]

JK: I sent some editorial suggestions

17:33:01 [ht]

TVR: Missed them, please resend and I will try to incorporate

17:33:30 [noah]

http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/doc/hash-in-url-20080320.html

17:33:33 [ht]

JK: There is evidence that you were working towards two Best Practices -- are you prepared to actually go there?

17:33:40 [noah]

q?

17:34:08 [ht]

TVR: I was unsure we were ready to go there already, but if you think we're ready for that, I'll try to get those in

17:34:22 [ht]

q+ to say I'm unsure

17:34:36 [noah]

(note that the agenda for this meeting inadvertently referenced and linked to David Orchard's draft state finding -- it is indeed Raman's, linked above, that we are discussing)

17:35:12 [ht]

JK: 1) Use # plus [miseed this]

17:35:20 [ht]

JK: 2) Don't use bare #

17:35:49 [ht]

TVR: I'm convinced (2) is correct, but worried that this will get a lot of pushback from the AJAX community who use it a lot

17:36:33 [noah]

HT: Unsure on recommending (1) without first checking w/HTTPbis folks

17:36:46 [noah]

TVR: Agree. We've observed this, don't yet know whether it's best practice.

17:37:05 [ht]

HT: I'm concerned that it's not up to us to change the basic story about frag semantics

17:37:17 [ht]

JK: JSONP?

17:37:27 [ht]

TVR: Not only that

17:37:39 [ht]

... I'm not as comfortable with that solution

17:38:01 [noah]

q+

17:38:03 [ht]

... because it's the first example where a bookmark assumes particular (JSON) capability in a browser

17:38:07 [ht]

ack ht

17:38:07 [Zakim]

ht, you wanted to say I'm unsure

17:38:41 [ht]

TVR: That's not the sort of thing that bookmarks have required in the past

17:39:00 [noah]

ack noah

17:39:12 [ht]

NM: Built-in capabilities, or contingent problems because there is state which isn't recorded?

17:39:22 [johnk]

my email: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2009Mar/0144.html

17:39:31 [johnk]

(unhelpfully titled, I can see)

17:39:33 [ht]

TVR: The latter is just a bug -- it's the former that I'm talking about

17:40:41 [ht]

... The thing that makes up the presentation which results from retrieving a URI with such a # package depends on more than the URI, but on client-resident code as well

17:41:00 [ht]

JK: You reference the JSON-with-padding proposal, but don't talk about it much. . .

17:41:27 [noah]

q?

17:41:32 [ht]

TVR: That was sort of intentional -- I wasn't ready to dig in to that while it's still moving

17:42:15 [ht]

NM: So adding links would be a minimum addition?

17:42:25 [ht]

JK: No, the problem is that there's no discussion

17:42:32 [ht]

TVR: I'll try to fix

17:42:59 [ht]

NM: Ready to vote

17:43:40 [ht]

HST: Happy to review this after TV's edits, and publish if we're happy in his absence

17:43:44 [ht]

TVR: I'm OK with that

17:44:04 [ht]

NM: So I propose to ask TV to prepare a new draft, and we'll review and publish, or not

17:44:49 [ht]

RESOLUTION: To give TVR an action to prepare a new draft for the group to review and possibly publish

17:45:31 [ht]

ACTION: TVR to prepare a new draft of http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/doc/hash-in-url-20080320.html for review by the group

17:45:31 [trackbot]

Sorry, couldn't find user - TVR

17:45:56 [ht]

trackbot, status?

17:46:05 [ht]

ACTION: T.V. to prepare a new draft of http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/doc/hash-in-url-20080320.html for review by the group

17:46:05 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-248 - Prepare a new draft of http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/doc/hash-in-url-20080320.html for review by the group [on T.V. Raman - due 2009-04-02].

17:47:00 [dckc]

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17:47:01 [ht]

ACTION: ht to put the next draft of of http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/doc/hash-in-url-20080320.html into WD-publication-ready form

17:47:01 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-249 - Put the next draft of of http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/doc/hash-in-url-20080320.html into WD-publication-ready form [on Henry S. Thompson - due 2009-04-02].

17:47:44 [ht]

NM: Any other work we should be doing wrt this issue?

17:47:54 [ht]

action-193?

17:47:54 [trackbot]

ACTION-193 -- Dan Connolly to try to draft a blog posting adapted from http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/doc/hash-in-url, with help from TVR -- due 2009-02-25 -- PENDINGREVIEW

17:47:54 [trackbot]

http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/193

17:47:58 [johnk]

Henry, you mentioned HTTPbis

17:47:59 [johnk]

?

17:48:02 [johnk]

earlier

17:48:20 [dckc]

i'd like to withdraw 193

17:48:43 [noah]

OK with me

17:48:48 [ht]

HST: I'm happy to close it

17:48:54 [ht]

close action-193

17:48:54 [trackbot]

ACTION-193 Try to draft a blog posting adapted from http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/doc/hash-in-url, with help from TVR closed

17:49:01 [ht]

action-234?

17:49:01 [trackbot]

ACTION-234 -- John Kemp to review the current draft of Usage Patterns For Client-Side URL parameters for possible publication -- due 2009-03-11 -- PENDINGREVIEW

17:49:01 [trackbot]

http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/234

17:49:12 [ht]

close action-234

17:49:12 [trackbot]

ACTION-234 Review the current draft of Usage Patterns For Client-Side URL parameters for possible publication closed

17:49:18 [ht]

action-247?

17:49:18 [trackbot]

ACTION-247 -- to noah to schedule followup on Raman proposal: publish issue 60 draft -- due 2009-03-24 -- PENDINGREVIEW

17:49:18 [trackbot]

http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/247

17:49:32 [ht]

close action-247

17:49:32 [trackbot]

ACTION-247 Noah to schedule followup on Raman proposal: publish issue 60 draft closed

17:49:56 [ht]

action-235?

17:49:56 [trackbot]

ACTION-235 -- Ashok Malhotra to review the current draft of Usage Patterns For Client-Side URL parameters for possible publication -- due 2009-03-11 -- OPEN

17:49:56 [trackbot]

http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/235

17:50:02 [ht]

close action-235

17:50:02 [trackbot]

ACTION-235 Review the current draft of Usage Patterns For Client-Side URL parameters for possible publication closed

17:50:39 [noah]

HT: Should we liaise with HTTPbis on this? I think it's 3986. They're revising 2616.

17:50:56 [ht]

HST: HTTP bis work is to revise 2616, not 3986, and # semantics is properly 3986. . .

17:51:20 [ht]

NM: Actually, 3986 delegates to 2616 for http:

17:51:34 [ht]

... which gets a bit funny when you don't actually do a GET

17:52:09 [ht]

s/3986 delegates to 2616 for http:/3986 delegates to the specific media types/

17:52:45 [ht]

NM: TVR, in the cases you've explored, does the left-hand-side (before the #) stay stable?

17:52:57 [ht]

TVR: Usually, but not always

17:53:35 [ht]

NM: So, the retrieval would have given you a media-type, but maybe you haven't done a GET at all

17:53:56 [ht]

... Maybe you just put a URI on the history stack

17:54:11 [ht]

TVR: You've done GETs before that, to build up your state

17:55:09 [ht]

... You start with a URI, you do some XHR GETs, you arrive in a state, and you then record the resulting presentation's parameterisations in a post-# bundle

17:55:43 [ht]

NM: If you change the LHS at that point, not clear what specs apply

17:55:57 [ht]

TVR: You can't change out of the same domain, for security reasons

17:56:27 [ht]

NM: So, anyway, media type specs are the issue

17:56:59 [ht]

HST: That's the problem -- no-one is actually currently responsible for 3986-related issues

17:57:19 [ht]

NM: We need a shepherd for this issue

17:57:34 [dckc]

hmm

17:57:35 [ht]

... The shepherd should add a note about this liaison gap

17:57:55 [ht]

TVR: I will be the shepherd

17:58:27 [ht]

NM: I need the shepherd to keep this up to date

17:58:31 [dckc]

thanks, raman

17:58:51 [ht]

TVR: I will do so, but in a flat file

17:58:56 [ht]

NM: OK, we'll make that work

17:59:41 [ht]

Topic: CURIEs

18:01:05 [ht]

s/CURIEs/CURIEs in RDFa, @rel, and the HTML profile attribute/

18:01:24 [ht]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2009Feb/0295.html

18:02:18 [ht]

JK: The basic issue is that Creative Commons have published a spec which uses RDFa, including CURIEs, in vanilla HTML

18:02:29 [Zakim]

-jar

18:02:33 [noah]

> Specifications for particular attribute values or other content MAY be

18:02:33 [noah]

> written to allow either CURIEs or IRIs (or URIs, etc.). The

18:02:33 [noah]

> specifications for such languages MUST provide rules for disambiguantion

18:02:33 [noah]

> in situations where the same string could be interpreted as either a CURIE

18:02:33 [noah]

> or an IRI. One way to do this is to require that all CURIEs be expressed

18:02:33 [noah]

> as safe_CURIEs, implying that all unbracketed strings are to be

18:02:37 [noah]

> interpreted directly as IRIs.

18:02:38 [noah]

> </proposed>

18:02:39 [noah]

...which, unfortunately, RDFa-in-XHTML does not follow.

18:02:50 [jar]

Ben Adida made a nice summary - was it of this issue? I'll look for it...

18:02:52 [jar]

redialing

18:03:02 [Zakim]

+jar

18:03:03 [jar]

sorry about that

18:04:29 [ht]

JK: I have an action to work up a summary to help us get going on this

18:04:55 [johnk]

my action is ACTION-240

18:05:00 [johnk]

to be a shepherd

18:05:12 [ht]

action-240?

18:05:12 [trackbot]

ACTION-240 -- John Kemp to read thread on RDFa, CURIEs and profile and summarize http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2009Feb/0295.html -- due 2009-03-12 -- OPEN

18:05:12 [trackbot]

http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/240

18:05:23 [jar]

http://rdfa.info/wiki/%40rel_attribute_discussion

18:06:01 [ht]

make action-240 due 21 March

18:06:09 [ht]

trackbot, make action-240 due 21 March

18:06:09 [trackbot]

Sorry, ht, I don't understand 'trackbot, make action-240 due 21 March'. Please refer to http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc for help

18:06:38 [ht]

Topic: contentTypeOverride-24 (ISSUE-24)

18:06:45 [ht]

issue-24?

18:06:45 [trackbot]

ISSUE-24 -- Can a specification include rules for overriding HTTPcontent type parameters? -- OPEN

18:06:45 [trackbot]

http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/issues/24

18:07:03 [noah]

http://ietfreport.isoc.org/idref/draft-abarth-mime-sniff/

18:07:36 [ht]

action-240 due 21 March

18:07:36 [trackbot]

ACTION-240 Read thread on RDFa, CURIEs and profile and summarize http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2009Feb/0295.html due date now 21 March

18:08:23 [noah]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2009Feb/0230.html

18:09:37 [noah]

Dan's note points to feedback from Roy: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2007Aug/0034.html

18:11:33 [ht]

ACTION: NM to check with DanC or others to get him/them to suitably frame the discussion of Issue-24 for a subsequent meeting

18:11:33 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-250 - Check with DanC or others to get him/them to suitably frame the discussion of Issue-24 for a subsequent meeting [on Noah Mendelsohn - due 2009-04-02].

18:11:57 [noah]

http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/pendingreview

18:12:05 [ht]

Topic: Review of PENDINGREVIEW actions

18:12:43 [ht]

close action-165

18:12:43 [trackbot]

ACTION-165 Formulate erratum text on versioning for the web architecture document closed

18:13:08 [ht]

close action-176

18:13:08 [trackbot]

ACTION-176 send comments on exi w.r.t. evaluation and efficiency closed

18:14:09 [ht]

close action-200

18:14:09 [trackbot]

ACTION-200 Revise "Uniform Access to Metadata" (needs title change) to add XRD use case closed

18:14:22 [ht]

close action-205

18:14:22 [trackbot]

ACTION-205 Henry to begin responding to Marcos asking the question: Why does the spec not say "A conforming spec MUST recommend a hierarchical adressing schems that can be used to address the individual resources within a widget resource from within a config doc, widget, or other constituent of the same widget pkg." closed

18:14:41 [ht]

close action-213

18:14:41 [trackbot]

ACTION-213 Convene weekly teleconference, take roll (regrets: Tim), review agenda closed

18:15:05 [ht]

close action-215

18:15:05 [trackbot]

ACTION-215 Announce minutes of 19 Feb TAG teleconference closed

18:16:36 [timbl]

ACTION-215?

18:16:36 [trackbot]

ACTION-215 -- Ashok Malhotra to announce minutes of 19 Feb TAG teleconference -- due 2009-02-23 -- CLOSED

18:16:36 [trackbot]

http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/215

18:17:28 [ht]

close action-217

18:17:29 [trackbot]

ACTION-217 Raise moving the registry to w3.org with Mark Nottingham closed

18:18:13 [ht]

close action-221

18:18:13 [trackbot]

ACTION-221 Work with Dave Orchard to close up the formalism facet of the versioning document, due in two weeks closed

18:19:35 [ht]

close action-238

18:19:35 [trackbot]

ACTION-238 - Ask Security Maintenance WG about relevance of a default processing model closed

18:20:43 [ht]

close action-243

18:20:43 [trackbot]

ACTION-243 Assemble minutes from SFO for day 1 based on http://www.w3.org/2009/03/03-tagmem-irc closed

18:20:56 [ht]

trackbot, status

18:21:08 [noah]

http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/overdue

18:21:33 [ht]

Action: Dan to assemble the Mar 2009 f2f minutes from the now-complete 3 daily records

18:21:33 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-251 - Assemble the Mar 2009 f2f minutes from the now-complete 3 daily records [on Dan Connolly - due 2009-04-02].

18:22:17 [ht]

NM: AOB?

18:22:23 [ht]

NM: Adjourned

18:22:26 [Zakim]

-noah

18:22:27 [Zakim]

-jar

18:22:28 [Zakim]

-John_Kemp

18:22:30 [Zakim]

-Raman

18:22:37 [Zakim]

-Ashok_Malhotra

18:22:38 [Zakim]

-TimBL

18:22:52 [Zakim]

-Ht

18:22:54 [Zakim]

TAG_Weekly()1:00PM has ended

18:22:56 [Zakim]

Attendees were noah, Ht, Ashok_Malhotra, John_Kemp, alanr, jar, Raman, TimBL

18:23:12 [ht]

rrsagent, make logs world-visible

18:23:23 [ht]

rrsagent, draft minutes

18:23:23 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/03/26-tagmem-minutes.html ht

18:24:46 [ht]

Noah, see private channel please

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