IRC log of ws-ra on 2009-03-24

Timestamps are in UTC.

19:28:23 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #ws-ra
19:28:24 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/03/24-ws-ra-irc
19:28:25 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs public
19:28:25 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #ws-ra
19:28:27 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be WSRA
19:28:27 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot, I see WS_WSRA()3:30PM already started
19:28:28 [trackbot]
Meeting: Web Services Resource Access Working Group Teleconference
19:28:28 [trackbot]
Date: 24 March 2009
19:28:34 [dug]
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19:28:40 [Zakim]
+ +1.408.970.aaaa
19:28:42 [Zakim]
-Bob_Freund
19:28:44 [Zakim]
+Bob_Freund
19:28:51 [fmaciel]
zakim, aaaa is fmaciel
19:28:51 [Zakim]
+fmaciel; got it
19:29:00 [Zakim]
+Tom_Rutt
19:29:41 [Zakim]
+Doug_Davis
19:30:03 [Katy]
Katy has joined #ws-ra
19:30:20 [Zakim]
+ +91.98.49.99.aabb
19:30:43 [Bob]
zakim, aabb is Sreed
19:30:43 [Zakim]
+Sreed; got it
19:30:58 [Ashok]
Ashok has joined #ws-ra
19:31:09 [Zakim]
+ +0208234aacc
19:31:24 [Bob]
zakim, aacc is katy
19:31:24 [Zakim]
+katy; got it
19:31:42 [Zakim]
+[Microsoft]
19:31:43 [Zakim]
+Ashok_Malhotra
19:31:49 [Vikas]
Vikas has joined #ws-ra
19:32:03 [asir]
asir has joined #ws-ra
19:32:13 [Bob]
zakim [Micro is Asir
19:32:28 [Bob]
zakim, [Micro is Asir
19:32:28 [Zakim]
+Asir; got it
19:32:28 [TRutt]
TRutt has joined #ws-ra
19:32:30 [Zakim]
+ +1.571.262.aadd
19:32:49 [Bob]
zakim, vikas is aadd
19:32:49 [Zakim]
sorry, Bob, I do not recognize a party named 'vikas'
19:32:56 [Zakim]
+ +1.408.642.aaee
19:33:04 [Bob]
zakim, aadd is Vikas
19:33:04 [Zakim]
+Vikas; got it
19:33:22 [Bob]
zakim, aaee id Gilbert
19:33:22 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'aaee id Gilbert', Bob
19:33:28 [Bob]
zakim, aaee id Gilbert
19:33:28 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'aaee id Gilbert', Bob
19:33:36 [Bob]
zakim, aaee is Gilbert
19:33:36 [Zakim]
+Gilbert; got it
19:34:04 [gpilz]
gpilz has joined #ws-ra
19:34:10 [Sreed]
Sreed has joined #ws-ra
19:34:10 [Bob]
zaki,. Vikas holds Sumeet
19:34:21 [Bob]
zakim, Vikas holds Sumeet
19:34:21 [Zakim]
+Sumeet; got it
19:34:23 [Zakim]
+??P14
19:34:34 [dug]
anyone else hear static?
19:34:43 [asir]
very minor
19:34:44 [gpilz]
I do
19:34:50 [Sreed]
I do
19:34:54 [Bob]
zakim, P14 is Snelling
19:34:54 [Zakim]
sorry, Bob, I do not recognize a party named 'P14'
19:35:06 [asir]
probably only for folks on the east coast
19:35:10 [Bob]
zakim, who is making noise?
19:35:21 [Zakim]
Bob, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Bob_Freund (23%), Tom_Rutt (19%), Asir (46%)
19:35:52 [dug]
that's a neat feature
19:35:55 [asir]
zakim, who is making noise?
19:35:59 [Bob]
Agenda http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-resource-access/2009Mar/0115.html
19:36:06 [Zakim]
asir, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Bob_Freund (70%), Asir (37%)
19:37:11 [Sumeet]
Sumeet has joined #ws-ra
19:38:23 [DaveS]
DaveS has joined #ws-ra
19:38:28 [fmaciel]
Fred Maciel is scribe
19:38:29 [Bob]
scribe: Fed Maciel
19:38:44 [Bob]
scribenick: fmaciel
19:39:59 [fmaciel]
Agenda approved with edits
19:40:22 [fmaciel]
topic: approval of minutes
19:40:34 [fmaciel]
No objections, minutes approved
19:41:06 [fmaciel]
topic: bugzilla issues
19:42:22 [fmaciel]
All new issues accepted and assigned to reporter, except for external editorial comment
19:42:31 [fmaciel]
which will be assigned to Doug
19:42:37 [fmaciel]
topic: infoset issues
19:43:33 [dug]
asir, is your phone still close to the phone?
19:43:39 [dug]
s/phone/iphone/
19:43:42 [asir]
NO
19:43:48 [dug]
zakim, who is making noise?
19:43:50 [asir]
zakim, who is making noise?
19:44:00 [Zakim]
dug, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Asir (32%)
19:44:11 [dug]
I like this finger pointing thing :-)
19:44:12 [Zakim]
asir, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Bob_Freund (42%), Ashok_Malhotra (14%), Asir (42%)
19:44:32 [Zakim]
-Asir
19:45:02 [Zakim]
+[Microsoft]
19:45:57 [fmaciel]
No volunteers, will remain unassigned for now
19:46:17 [fmaciel]
topic: issues with proposals
19:46:24 [fmaciel]
topic: issue 6595
19:46:51 [Bob]
proposal at http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-resource-access/2009Mar/0077.html
19:48:17 [asir]
q+
19:48:26 [Bob]
ack asir
19:49:40 [fmaciel]
proposal (proposal #2, comment #4 in bugzilla) accepted
19:50:05 [fmaciel]
topic: issue 6648
19:50:07 [dug]
proposal: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-resource-access/2009Mar/att-0076/00-part
19:53:13 [asir]
q+
19:53:20 [Bob]
ack asir
19:54:00 [Zakim]
+Wu_Chou
19:54:24 [dug]
q+
19:54:38 [Wu]
Wu has joined #ws-ra
19:55:12 [DaveS]
q+
19:55:16 [Bob]
Asir: considers this to be a substantial change and he requests a migration strategy but thinks the proposal reasonable
19:55:54 [Bob]
ack dug
19:56:33 [gpilz]
q+
19:56:59 [Katy]
q+
19:57:25 [dug]
katy - did we do that? I don't recall that
19:57:44 [Katy]
The text is there but unchanged - awaiting this issue
19:57:54 [Bob]
ack dave
19:58:07 [dug]
ah - so just ws-eventing had it removed?
19:58:43 [Wu]
Wu has joined #ws-ra
19:59:12 [Katy]
I didn't remove it from any as the resolution said we'd not address this under the not and conventions issue
19:59:30 [Bob]
ack gp
19:59:52 [asir]
q+
20:00:48 [dug]
s/must not/do not/
20:00:57 [Bob]
ack katy
20:01:53 [dug]
as an editor - I'm ok with that
20:02:05 [asir]
q+ to talk about http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=6587
20:02:26 [dug]
+1 to katy - its just a copy-n-paste and makes it easier in the long run to have the specs look similar.
20:02:30 [Bob]
ack asir
20:02:30 [Zakim]
asir, you wanted to talk about http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=6587
20:02:54 [dug]
q+
20:03:33 [Bob]
ack dug
20:03:34 [Katy]
q+
20:04:06 [DaveS]
Suggestion for fixing the language problem I am worried about: Senders MAY indicate the presence of an extension that has to be understood through the use of a corresponding SOAP Header with a soap:mustUnderstand attribute with the value 1.
20:04:53 [Bob]
ack katy
20:04:54 [gpilz]
how about "an extension it requires to be understood"?
20:05:37 [dug]
seems fine
20:05:43 [asir]
what is the proposed editorial change to Gil's proposal
20:06:14 [Bob]
proposed language :Suggestion for fixing the language problem I am worried about: Senders MAY indicate the presence of an extension that has to be understood through the use of a corresponding SOAP Header with a soap:mustUnderstand attribute with the value "1"
20:06:15 [gpilz]
The elements defined in this specification MAY be extended at the points indicated by their outlines and schema. Implementations MAY add child elements and/or attributes at the indicated extension points but MUST NOT contradict the semantics of the parent and/or owner, respectively. If a receiver does not recognize an extension, the receiver SHOULD ignore that extension. Senders MAY indicate the presence of an extension that has to be understood through the use of
20:06:41 [dug]
I'm missing the last part of Gil's - it got chopped off for me
20:06:57 [asir]
q+ to ask a question
20:07:04 [gpilz]
Senders MAY indicate the presence of an extension that has to be understood through the use of a corresponding SOAP Header with a soap:mustUnderstand attribute with the value “1”.
20:07:32 [Bob]
ack asir
20:07:32 [Zakim]
asir, you wanted to ask a question
20:08:19 [dug]
although, we can probably say MUST NOT since the receiver MUST adhere to SOAP and mU=1 is part of SOAP.
20:09:09 [dug]
q+
20:09:19 [dug]
q-
20:09:32 [dug]
never mind - I see Dave's point
20:09:34 [dug]
q+
20:10:40 [Bob]
Ack dug
20:12:29 [dug]
that's fine - and let's apply it to all specs :-)
20:12:45 [Bob]
proposal: The elements defined in this specification MAY be extended at the points indicated by their outlines and schema. Implementations MAY add child elements and/or attributes at the indicated extension points but MUST NOT contradict the semantics of the parent and/or owner, respectively. If a receiver does not recognize an extension, the receiver SHOULD ignore that extension. Senders...
20:12:46 [Bob]
...MAY indicate the presence of an extension that has to be understood through the use of a corresponding SOAP Header with a soap:mustUnderstand attribute with the value “1”.
20:13:20 [fmaciel]
Issue 6648 resolved with text above by Bob
20:14:06 [fmaciel]
RESOLUTION: the text above shall be applied to all specifications
20:15:56 [fmaciel]
topic: Issue 6691
20:16:13 [Bob]
s/6691/6692
20:16:27 [asir]
q+
20:17:24 [Wu]
q+
20:17:30 [Bob]
ack asir
20:18:12 [Bob]
ack asir
20:18:43 [Bob]
ack wu
20:19:13 [dug]
q+
20:19:34 [DaveS]
q+
20:20:10 [Bob]
ack dug
20:20:46 [gpilz]
q+
20:20:57 [Wu]
q+
20:21:14 [Bob]
ack dave
20:22:05 [Bob]
ack gp
20:23:28 [Bob]
ack wu
20:23:39 [dug]
q+
20:24:30 [DaveS]
q+
20:24:58 [Bob]
ack asir
20:25:31 [gpilz]
q+
20:26:00 [gpilz]
q-
20:26:07 [Bob]
ack dug
20:26:21 [asir]
How would you distinguish a NotifyTo EPR from a MakeConnection type EPR?
20:26:37 [gpilz]
q+
20:26:45 [gpilz]
you don't
20:26:52 [gpilz]
that's the whole point of WS-MC
20:27:15 [dug]
bob - I'd like to ask Wu a follow-on question
20:29:18 [Bob]
ack dave
20:30:54 [asir]
q+
20:31:16 [dug]
I still don't see the diff between NotifyTo and ReplyTo and I think it would actually be a mistake to imply they're different
20:31:40 [Bob]
ack gp
20:32:16 [DaveS]
+1
20:32:18 [Bob]
ack asir
20:32:41 [Zakim]
-Sreed
20:33:31 [Wu]
Wu has joined #ws-ra
20:33:39 [Zakim]
+ +984999aaff
20:33:46 [Wu]
q+
20:33:58 [Bob]
ack wu
20:34:04 [dug]
q+
20:34:16 [asir]
q+
20:34:17 [DaveS]
q+
20:34:56 [Bob]
ack dug
20:35:31 [DaveS]
What Doug said
20:35:33 [DaveS]
q-
20:37:58 [dug]
ws-e doesn't mandate that PUSH mode is a one-way
20:38:06 [DaveS]
But we still don't have a use case for any Mode other than push mode.
20:38:17 [dug]
granted a Notification is a one-way but not PUSH mode
20:39:46 [dug]
thank you bob
20:40:03 [gpilz]
q+
20:40:33 [Bob]
ack asir
20:40:39 [gpilz]
q-
20:40:45 [gpilz]
q+
20:40:56 [Bob]
ack gp
20:41:01 [dug]
its broken because we're adding confusion and duplicate semantics
20:43:01 [asir]
q+ to ask a question
20:44:18 [fmaciel]
straw poll on removing push mode from specification (accepting Dave's proposal):
20:45:03 [fmaciel]
5 votes for, 2 against, 1 abstain
20:46:54 [asir]
This is a non-binding strawpoll
20:47:13 [Bob]
s/abstain/abstain preference poll (non-binding)
20:48:00 [asir]
Wu and I mentioned that 6432 need to be resolved first
20:48:45 [gpilz]
everyone else obviously disagrees
20:49:41 [dug]
+1 to gil
20:49:47 [DaveS]
+1
20:50:39 [asir]
q+
20:52:01 [Bob]
understand better why if the spec says exactly the same thing concerning the eventing mode, having a more
20:52:24 [Wu]
q+
20:53:23 [DaveS]
We ned to se use cases for Mode not equal to Push Mode to better understand whay it is needed.
20:57:34 [dug]
Wu - you can never stop someone from putting a MCanonURI in the NotifyTo
20:58:32 [Bob]
action: Wu and Asir We need to use use cases for Mode not equal to Push Mode to better understand why it is needed.
20:58:32 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-53 - And Asir We need to use use cases for Mode not equal to Push Mode to better understand why it is needed. [on wu chou - due 2009-03-31].
20:59:10 [Bob]
http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=6725
20:59:29 [fmaciel]
topic: external review issue 6725
21:00:44 [Zakim]
-Ashok_Malhotra
21:00:46 [DaveS]
bye
21:00:47 [fmaciel]
postponed to next week
21:01:14 [Zakim]
-Gilbert
21:01:16 [Zakim]
- +984999aaff
21:01:18 [Zakim]
-Vikas
21:01:19 [Zakim]
-Bob_Freund
21:01:21 [Zakim]
-Tom_Rutt
21:01:23 [fmaciel]
Bob asked participants to review IRC for incomplete contents
21:01:24 [Zakim]
-Wu_Chou
21:01:25 [Zakim]
-??P14
21:01:35 [Zakim]
-katy
21:01:40 [Zakim]
-fmaciel
21:01:44 [Bob]
rrsagent, generate minutes
21:01:44 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/03/24-ws-ra-minutes.html Bob
21:01:55 [Zakim]
-[Microsoft]
21:02:16 [Zakim]
-Doug_Davis
21:02:18 [Zakim]
WS_WSRA()3:30PM has ended
21:02:20 [Zakim]
Attendees were Bob_Freund, +1.408.970.aaaa, fmaciel, Tom_Rutt, Doug_Davis, +91.98.49.99.aabb, Sreed, +0208234aacc, katy, [Microsoft], Ashok_Malhotra, Asir, +1.571.262.aadd,
21:02:23 [Zakim]
... +1.408.642.aaee, Gilbert, Sumeet, Wu_Chou, +984999aaff
21:02:33 [gpilz]
gpilz has left #ws-ra
21:39:50 [dug]
dug has joined #ws-ra