15:52:13 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #badtf
15:52:13 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/02/25-badtf-irc
15:52:19 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #badtf
15:52:24 <shadi> zakim, this will be bad
15:52:24 <Zakim> ok, shadi; I see WAI_EOWG(BAD TF)11:00AM scheduled to start in 8 minutes
15:52:33 <shadi> meeting: BAD TF
15:53:14 <shadi> agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-eo-badtf/2009Feb/0028.html
15:53:19 <shadi> chair: Shadi
15:53:27 <shadi> regrets: Michael
15:53:37 <shadi> agebda+ WCAG 2.0 Review
15:53:44 <shadi> agenda+ WCAG 2.0 Review
15:53:52 <shadi> agenda+ In-Between pages
15:54:05 <shadi> agenda+ Comments from EOWG/WAI-AGE TF
15:54:09 <Zakim> WAI_EOWG(BAD TF)11:00AM has now started
15:54:16 <Zakim> +Wilco
15:54:18 <shadi> agenda+ WAI-AGE Implementations
15:54:27 <shadi> agenda+ Next meetings
15:54:58 <eric> eric has joined #badtf
15:59:15 <Zakim> +??P10
15:59:19 <Zakim> -Wilco
15:59:19 <Zakim> +Wilco
15:59:41 <Tom> Tom has joined #badtf
15:59:43 <shadi> zakim, call shadi-617
15:59:43 <Zakim> ok, shadi; the call is being made
15:59:45 <Zakim> +Shadi
16:00:22 <Zakim> +Tom
16:01:42 <shadi> zakim, pick a victim
16:01:42 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose ??P10
16:01:58 <shadi> zakim, who is on the phone?
16:01:58 <Zakim> On the phone I see Wilco, ??P10, Shadi, Tom
16:02:11 <maik_w> maik_w has joined #badtf
16:02:14 <shadi> zakim, ? is Eric
16:02:14 <Zakim> +Eric; got it
16:02:41 <shadi> scribe: Eric
16:03:41 <shadi> agenda?
16:04:10 <shadi> zakim, take up agendum 1
16:04:10 <Zakim> agendum 1. "WCAG 2.0 Review" taken up [from shadi]
16:04:23 <shadi> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-eo-badtf/2009Feb/0025
16:04:30 <shadi> http://www.tomjewett.com/accessibility/features-new.html
16:04:41 <Zakim> +Maik
16:06:42 <eric> Tom: There is no connection between the items in the record and the annotated after pages. Any suggestions how we could have such connections?
16:08:07 <eric> Shadi: Some pages will change, but the major things will stay the same. So we should freeze that now in terms of content and start playing with the content. Don’t add more information right now.
16:08:31 <eric> Tom: What is the best format to incorporate that into our demo?
16:10:16 <eric> Shadi: Suggestion: A tabular format, each of these statements could be split up into some lines. you could do a table with the success criteria and then a reference to the page. Including Before Home or After Home...
16:11:23 <eric> Shadi: We need which techniques fail in the before and which pass on the after pages.
16:12:05 <eric> Tom: I'll play with the tabular format.
16:13:01 <shadi> Suggested columns: <SC>, <Technique>, <Page>, <Location>, <Comment>
16:13:13 <eric> Wilco: Best we use comments in the code…
16:14:22 <eric> Shadi: We would need those tables twice, for before and after pages.
16:14:38 <eric> Tom: Do we still have a separate page template.
16:15:00 <shadi> http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/2005/Demo/
16:15:32 <eric> Shadi: Yes. Comments on the template, too. The point is to fix the template and then fix most things.
16:16:05 <shadi> zakim, take up next
16:16:05 <Zakim> agendum 2. "In-Between pages" taken up [from shadi]
16:16:16 <shadi> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-eo-badtf/2009Feb/0027
16:16:24 <shadi> http://fiers.name/badtf/inbetween_after.html
16:18:42 <eric> Wilco: Is it okay to use WAI-ARIA for marking up dialog boxes.
16:18:53 <eric> Shadi et al: Yes, please!
16:21:50 <eric> http://ericeggert.net/badtf-latest/info/
16:22:29 <eric> Shadi: This is maybe an old iteration of the pages. Please send a screenshot.
16:24:26 <shadi> zakim, take up next
16:24:26 <Zakim> agendum 3. "Comments from EOWG/WAI-AGE TF" taken up [from shadi]
16:24:32 <eric> Wilco: I'm still working on that, there are some issues left.
16:24:54 <shadi> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-eo-badtf/2009Feb/0026
16:26:26 <shadi> http://ericeggert.net/badtf/index/
16:28:44 <eric> Shadi: The meta navigation was confusing for people. Could we not list all 4 pages?
16:28:49 <eric> q+
16:29:12 <eric> Tom: We have it in the navigation of the main page, and the demo has the template.
16:29:20 <shadi> ack e
16:29:42 <Zakim> -Shadi
16:30:36 <shadi> zakim, call shadi-617
16:30:36 <Zakim> ok, shadi; the call is being made
16:30:38 <Zakim> +Shadi
16:31:10 <shadi> Eric: so many navigation elements already
16:31:33 <shadi> ...have four pages now, but may add more
16:33:20 <eric> The group agrees to make an option to hide the meta navigation.
16:34:37 <eric> Tom: A stop sign on the not accessible version probably.
16:34:54 <eric> Eric: Or a stairs/no stairs analogy.
16:37:06 <eric> Shadi: Makes the grouping sense, shouldn’t it be Accessible, Inaccessible, Accessible Anntotated and so on. 
16:37:30 <eric> Tom: The annotated versions could be a toggle for turning the annotation on and of.
16:40:43 <eric> Maik: Probably we need more space between the tabs.
16:41:05 <eric> Shadi: We should ask Michael for variants of the navigation.
16:41:45 <eric> Maik: I like the simple way this navigation is done. One can do everything with it.
16:42:27 <eric> Wilco: We could increase the height of the tabs without the annotations on it to draw attention to them.
16:43:51 <eric> Shadi: It looks like a screenshot to some people.
16:44:16 <eric> Tom: I think its fine. (general consensus about that)
16:44:48 <eric> Shadi: We could have some text on the top left of the gray area.
16:45:10 <eric> Tom: That would clutter the site probably.
16:46:30 <eric> Shadi: The pages are not so obvious and should be bigger, says the EOWG.
16:46:52 <eric> Wilco: We have them stand out more now.
16:47:11 <eric> Wilco: We can't have bigger icons because we have so many.
16:47:16 <shadi> zakim, take up next
16:47:16 <Zakim> agendum 4. "WAI-AGE Implementations" taken up [from shadi]
16:47:32 <shadi> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-eo-badtf/2009Feb/0029.html
16:47:43 <shadi> http://www.wienfluss.net/BAD/wai-age_bad.html
16:49:09 <shadi> http://www.mcwiwa.de/bad-tf/before-demo/index.html
16:49:10 <eric> Shadi: Let's look at the changes Mike did, one by one.
16:50:41 <eric> Maik: Line height is changed here. I’ve made the older one worse to be sure we catch that in the after page.
16:51:19 <eric> Shadi: The line height is to large on the right teasers.
16:52:07 <eric> Shadi: We want to have the before and after pages as close as possible.
16:53:32 <eric> Maik: the clickable area of the navigation is smaller, too.
16:54:21 <eric> Shadi: That is a nice effect, but it doesn’t look right at the moment.
16:55:26 <eric> Shadi: We want to change the font to a serif font throughout the demo?
16:55:38 <eric> Maik: the whole demo
16:56:01 <shadi> http://www.mcwiwa.de/bad-tf/before-demo/info.html
16:56:35 <shadi> http://www.mcwiwa.de/bad-tf/before-demo/data.html
16:59:12 <shadi> http://www.mcwiwa.de/bad-tf/before-demo/form.html
17:00:45 <eric> Shadi: What about that close links thing we wanted to implement?
17:01:05 <eric> Maik: I haven’t found a good place to put them.
17:01:40 <eric> Shadi: Use two words on the news page, probably and link them up.
17:02:20 <Zakim> -Tom
17:02:37 <eric> Shadi: White space page margins…
17:02:58 <eric> Maik: We could get rid of the margin on the news page.
17:03:43 <shadi> zakim, take up next
17:03:43 <Zakim> agendum 5. "Next meetings" taken up [from shadi]
17:03:49 <eric> Shadi: Don’t change the optical impression of the site if possible.
17:05:07 <eric> Next meeting next week.
17:05:16 <shadi> 4 March
17:05:18 <Wilco> Wilco has left #badtf
17:05:19 <Zakim> -Eric
17:05:28 <Zakim> -Wilco
17:05:38 <Zakim> -Shadi
17:05:41 <Zakim> -Maik
17:05:43 <Zakim> WAI_EOWG(BAD TF)11:00AM has ended
17:05:44 <Zakim> Attendees were Wilco, Shadi, Tom, Eric, Maik
17:12:08 <shadi> zakim, bye
17:12:09 <Zakim> Zakim has left #badtf
17:12:14 <shadi> rrsagent, make logs world
17:12:18 <shadi> rrsagent, make minutes
17:12:18 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/02/25-badtf-minutes.html shadi
17:12:19 <shadi> rrsagent, make logs world
17:12:23 <shadi> rrsagent, bye
17:12:23 <RRSAgent> I see no action items