IRC log of svg on 2009-01-29

Timestamps are in UTC.

19:33:16 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #svg
19:33:16 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/01/29-svg-irc
19:33:18 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs public
19:33:18 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #svg
19:33:20 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be GA_SVGWG
19:33:20 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot, I see GA_SVGWG()2:30PM already started
19:33:21 [trackbot]
Meeting: SVG Working Group Teleconference
19:33:21 [trackbot]
Date: 29 January 2009
19:34:30 [ChrisL]
ChrisL has joined #svg
19:35:55 [Zakim]
+??P1
19:35:55 [ChrisL]
i'm getting an "engaged" signal when dialing zakim. Anyone else having problems?
19:35:58 [Zakim]
-??P0
19:35:59 [Zakim]
+??P0
19:36:13 [ed__]
Zakim, who's here?
19:36:13 [Zakim]
On the phone I see ??P0, ??P1
19:36:14 [Zakim]
On IRC I see ChrisL, Zakim, RRSAgent, ed__, shepazu, ed_work, trackbot, heycam, anthony
19:36:25 [ed__]
Zakim, ??P0 is me
19:36:25 [Zakim]
+ed__; got it
19:36:29 [heycam]
Zakim, ??P1 is me
19:36:29 [Zakim]
+heycam; got it
19:36:39 [ChrisL]
zakim, self.reboot();
19:36:39 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'self.reboot();', ChrisL
19:36:41 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
19:36:47 [Zakim]
+Shepazu
19:36:58 [anthony]
Zakim, [IP is me
19:36:58 [Zakim]
+anthony; got it
19:39:41 [ed__]
Zakim, pick a victim?
19:39:41 [Zakim]
I don't understand your question, ed__.
19:39:45 [ed__]
Zakim, pick a victim
19:39:45 [Zakim]
Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Shepazu
19:40:07 [shepazu]
scribe: Doug
19:40:16 [shepazu]
scribeNick: shepazu
19:40:25 [ed__]
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2009JanMar/0068.html
19:40:37 [ChrisL]
zakim, dial chris-work
19:40:37 [Zakim]
ok, ChrisL; the call is being made
19:40:39 [Zakim]
+Chris
19:41:17 [shepazu]
Topic: Issue-2007
19:41:23 [shepazu]
Issue-2007?
19:41:23 [trackbot]
ISSUE-2007 -- 'enable-background' Property Duplicated in Compositing and Filters Modules -- RAISED
19:41:23 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2007
19:41:29 [ed__]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2009JanMar/0066.html
19:41:37 [ChrisL]
zakim, who is here?
19:41:37 [Zakim]
On the phone I see ed__, heycam, anthony, Shepazu, Chris (muted)
19:41:38 [Zakim]
On IRC I see ChrisL, Zakim, RRSAgent, ed__, shepazu, ed_work, trackbot, heycam, anthony
19:42:20 [shepazu]
anthony: I ran across this while doing my actions regarding the compositing module
19:42:35 [shepazu]
... seems like there's an incompatibility
19:43:04 [shepazu]
... I'm looking into whether there is an incompatibility
19:43:40 [shepazu]
... the original compositing module from SVG Full 1.2 followed the Adobe model, so that might be the reason
19:43:55 [shepazu]
... I'll confirm this by next week
19:44:56 [shepazu]
ed: so, is the wording in your module different than that in 1.2 Full, or is it only with filters?
19:45:12 [shepazu]
anthony: no, it's close to what was in Full 1.2
19:45:32 [shepazu]
... I did take the wording closely from the filters module
19:46:03 [shepazu]
... so the incompatibility arises between compositing and filtering
19:47:49 [shepazu]
when you composite in filters using feComposite, it ends up compositing the background twice, whereas with compositing module, it writes it to a buffer
19:48:23 [shepazu]
s/when you composite/anthony: when you composite/
19:48:50 [shepazu]
s/it writes it to a buffer/it just writes it to a buffer/
19:49:37 [shepazu]
... that is, all the child elements you composite
19:49:40 [shepazu]
... the example shows the differences quite clearly
19:50:00 [shepazu]
.... and there are differences between "accumulate" and "new"
19:51:30 [shepazu]
shepazu: is it possible to use both values, and maybe use an attribute value to switch between them?
19:52:12 [shepazu]
ed: we could have 2 behaviors, because it's used in different contexts, but do we want that?
19:52:45 [shepazu]
... in filters, it's only used when you have @enable-background
19:53:10 [ed__]
and only when the keyword BackgroundImage is used in the filter
19:53:24 [ed__]
and BackgroundAlpha
19:53:26 [shepazu]
anthony: also, in the compositing module, I do talk about access to the background
19:53:30 [ChrisL]
ChrisL has joined #svg
19:54:29 [shepazu]
anthony: we can talk about this at the f2f
19:54:53 [shepazu]
... for printing, it may be necessary to keep the Compositing module as it is
19:55:39 [shepazu]
ed: you would get something drawn if you used CompOps, right?
19:55:59 [shepazu]
anthony: yes, it is technically an error if you don't use it
19:56:05 [ed__]
s/ if you used CompOps, right?/ if you used enablebackground on the root and didn't use any CompOps, right?/
19:56:51 [shepazu]
ed: yes, let's talk about it at the F2F... I can add that to the agenda page
19:56:59 [anthony]
s/an error if you don't use it/an error if you don't have a background/
19:57:31 [shepazu]
ed: there is the question of how much content would change if we changed filters
19:57:52 [shepazu]
anthony: I am not convinced that we would need to change the behavior of filters
19:58:08 [shepazu]
ed: so you're recommending that we keep both behaviors
19:58:36 [shepazu]
anthony: yes, if that's possible... maybe we could change names of the attributes, to make a distinction
19:58:41 [anthony]
http://dev.w3.org/SVG/modules/compositing/master/SVGCompositing.html
19:58:53 [shepazu]
anthony: I did make some of the changes Erik requested
19:59:43 [shepazu]
... I added in the graeter-than/less-than for the optional x/y/width/height values
20:00:02 [shepazu]
... and added a definition for them as well
20:00:20 [shepazu]
s/graeter/greater/
20:01:05 [shepazu]
anthony: should we hold off publication, or go ahead?
20:02:15 [shepazu]
shepazu: how about we wait until after the f2f
20:03:55 [shepazu]
Topic: SVG Full 1.2 scratchspace module
20:04:17 [shepazu]
ed: I think it might be good to at least start the framework for the next major spec
20:04:31 [shepazu]
... something that brings in Tiny with the Modules
20:04:56 [shepazu]
... some of the stuff is best not done in modules, such as cleaning up the SVG DOM
20:05:18 [shepazu]
heycam: animation doesn't correspond to a module, either
20:06:20 [shepazu]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2009JanMar/0173.html
20:06:38 [shepazu]
shepazu: this is from mozilla's review of widgets
20:07:39 [shepazu]
shepazu: the basic issue is around different use profiles
20:07:40 [shepazu]
http://www.schepers.cc/svg/blendups/embedding.html
20:09:44 [shepazu]
shepazu: I don't talk there about multimedia, but that's another issue (audio, video)
20:10:05 [shepazu]
heycam: what's the purpose of this scratchspace?
20:10:33 [shepazu]
... is it all the stuff that doesn't fit in a module, along with how to integrate the modules together?
20:11:28 [shepazu]
ed: yes, we do need to start someplace to put all that
20:13:17 [shepazu]
shepazu: I think we can just start this spec, and decide later exactly how we are going to put the next spec together
20:13:44 [shepazu]
ed: I don't think most of the raised issues would fit in an established module
20:14:03 [shepazu]
... we can at least start the work in this scratch module
20:14:43 [shepazu]
... we can split parts out later, if we decide that's best
20:17:04 [shepazu]
ed: we could all be editors
20:17:15 [shepazu]
shepazu: yeah, I'm happy to start it and add some structure
20:19:37 [shepazu]
... I'd like the featurestrings to be derived automatically from the schema
20:20:44 [shepazu]
Action: shepazu to start core/scratch module
20:20:44 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-2426 - Start core/scratch module [on Doug Schepers - due 2009-02-05].
20:21:26 [shepazu]
Topic: ISSUE-2205
20:21:27 [shepazu]
ISSUE-2205?
20:21:27 [trackbot]
ISSUE-2205 -- Consider adding support for stretched, wrapped text in a <textArea> -- RAISED
20:21:27 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2205
20:24:19 [shepazu]
shepazu: this is interesting... it's quite different than justifying
20:25:22 [shepazu]
ed: it's similar to SVG 1.1's length-adjust
20:25:37 [shepazu]
heycam: yes, but that doesn't change the font size
20:25:56 [ed__]
lengthAdjust = "spacing|spacingAndGlyphs"
20:26:10 [ed__]
http://www.w3.org/TR/SVG11/text.html#TextElement
20:28:21 [shepazu]
lengthAdjust = "spacing|spacingAndGlyphs|fontSize" ?
20:28:32 [shepazu]
heycam: could be good
20:29:55 [shepazu]
shepazu: this is related (in a way) to sizing text to fit a box, and vice versa
20:35:44 [shepazu]
shepazu: in the case where you have fixed width, it would determine the chunk size, and then adjust the font size accordingly, unlike your example, where you've pre-chunked it
20:36:09 [shepazu]
heycam: it would be less dramatic in that case
20:37:45 [shepazu]
... in my example, I had to set width to auto, but it should be the hardcoded value of 360
20:38:25 [shepazu]
Topic: ISSUE-2095
20:38:29 [shepazu]
ISSUE-2095?
20:38:29 [trackbot]
ISSUE-2095 -- Algorithm for soft-light blend mode -- RAISED
20:38:29 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2095
20:38:34 [ed__]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2009JanMar/0069.html
20:40:54 [shepazu]
ed: this is for the compositing module
20:41:40 [ed__]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008OctDec/0036.html
20:42:17 [shepazu]
ed: this email has the algorithms
20:42:43 [shepazu]
ed: is there any reason to differ from PDF?
20:43:40 [shepazu]
anthony: if we're going to follow the Adobe compositing model, then it make sense what's in the ISO PDF spec
20:46:01 [shepazu]
Resolution: we will use the algorithms for the soft-light Color Dodge and Color Burn in the compositing module
20:46:41 [shepazu]
Action: anthony to use the formulae from ISSUE-2095 to update the Compositing module
20:46:41 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-2427 - Use the formulae from ISSUE-2095 to update the Compositing module [on Anthony Grasso - due 2009-02-05].
20:49:33 [Zakim]
-Shepazu
20:49:57 [Zakim]
+Shepazu
21:00:52 [shepazu]
trackbot, end telcon
21:00:52 [trackbot]
Zakim, list attendees
21:00:52 [Zakim]
As of this point the attendees have been ed__, heycam, [IPcaller], Shepazu, anthony, Chris
21:00:53 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, please draft minutes
21:00:53 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/01/29-svg-minutes.html trackbot
21:00:54 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, bye
21:00:54 [RRSAgent]
I see 2 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2009/01/29-svg-actions.rdf :
21:00:54 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: shepazu to start core/scratch module [1]
21:00:54 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/01/29-svg-irc#T20-20-44
21:00:54 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: anthony to use the formulae from ISSUE-2095 to update the Compositing module [2]
21:00:54 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/01/29-svg-irc#T20-46-41
21:00:54 [Zakim]
-heycam
21:00:54 [Zakim]
-ed__
21:01:02 [Zakim]
-anthony