IRC log of svg on 2009-01-29
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 19:33:16 [RRSAgent]
- RRSAgent has joined #svg
- 19:33:16 [RRSAgent]
- logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/01/29-svg-irc
- 19:33:18 [trackbot]
- RRSAgent, make logs public
- 19:33:18 [Zakim]
- Zakim has joined #svg
- 19:33:20 [trackbot]
- Zakim, this will be GA_SVGWG
- 19:33:20 [Zakim]
- ok, trackbot, I see GA_SVGWG()2:30PM already started
- 19:33:21 [trackbot]
- Meeting: SVG Working Group Teleconference
- 19:33:21 [trackbot]
- Date: 29 January 2009
- 19:34:30 [ChrisL]
- ChrisL has joined #svg
- 19:35:55 [Zakim]
- +??P1
- 19:35:55 [ChrisL]
- i'm getting an "engaged" signal when dialing zakim. Anyone else having problems?
- 19:35:58 [Zakim]
- -??P0
- 19:35:59 [Zakim]
- +??P0
- 19:36:13 [ed__]
- Zakim, who's here?
- 19:36:13 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see ??P0, ??P1
- 19:36:14 [Zakim]
- On IRC I see ChrisL, Zakim, RRSAgent, ed__, shepazu, ed_work, trackbot, heycam, anthony
- 19:36:25 [ed__]
- Zakim, ??P0 is me
- 19:36:25 [Zakim]
- +ed__; got it
- 19:36:29 [heycam]
- Zakim, ??P1 is me
- 19:36:29 [Zakim]
- +heycam; got it
- 19:36:39 [ChrisL]
- zakim, self.reboot();
- 19:36:39 [Zakim]
- I don't understand 'self.reboot();', ChrisL
- 19:36:41 [Zakim]
- +[IPcaller]
- 19:36:47 [Zakim]
- +Shepazu
- 19:36:58 [anthony]
- Zakim, [IP is me
- 19:36:58 [Zakim]
- +anthony; got it
- 19:39:41 [ed__]
- Zakim, pick a victim?
- 19:39:41 [Zakim]
- I don't understand your question, ed__.
- 19:39:45 [ed__]
- Zakim, pick a victim
- 19:39:45 [Zakim]
- Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Shepazu
- 19:40:07 [shepazu]
- scribe: Doug
- 19:40:16 [shepazu]
- scribeNick: shepazu
- 19:40:25 [ed__]
- Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2009JanMar/0068.html
- 19:40:37 [ChrisL]
- zakim, dial chris-work
- 19:40:37 [Zakim]
- ok, ChrisL; the call is being made
- 19:40:39 [Zakim]
- +Chris
- 19:41:17 [shepazu]
- Topic: Issue-2007
- 19:41:23 [shepazu]
- Issue-2007?
- 19:41:23 [trackbot]
- ISSUE-2007 -- 'enable-background' Property Duplicated in Compositing and Filters Modules -- RAISED
- 19:41:23 [trackbot]
- http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2007
- 19:41:29 [ed__]
- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2009JanMar/0066.html
- 19:41:37 [ChrisL]
- zakim, who is here?
- 19:41:37 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see ed__, heycam, anthony, Shepazu, Chris (muted)
- 19:41:38 [Zakim]
- On IRC I see ChrisL, Zakim, RRSAgent, ed__, shepazu, ed_work, trackbot, heycam, anthony
- 19:42:20 [shepazu]
- anthony: I ran across this while doing my actions regarding the compositing module
- 19:42:35 [shepazu]
- ... seems like there's an incompatibility
- 19:43:04 [shepazu]
- ... I'm looking into whether there is an incompatibility
- 19:43:40 [shepazu]
- ... the original compositing module from SVG Full 1.2 followed the Adobe model, so that might be the reason
- 19:43:55 [shepazu]
- ... I'll confirm this by next week
- 19:44:56 [shepazu]
- ed: so, is the wording in your module different than that in 1.2 Full, or is it only with filters?
- 19:45:12 [shepazu]
- anthony: no, it's close to what was in Full 1.2
- 19:45:32 [shepazu]
- ... I did take the wording closely from the filters module
- 19:46:03 [shepazu]
- ... so the incompatibility arises between compositing and filtering
- 19:47:49 [shepazu]
- when you composite in filters using feComposite, it ends up compositing the background twice, whereas with compositing module, it writes it to a buffer
- 19:48:23 [shepazu]
- s/when you composite/anthony: when you composite/
- 19:48:50 [shepazu]
- s/it writes it to a buffer/it just writes it to a buffer/
- 19:49:37 [shepazu]
- ... that is, all the child elements you composite
- 19:49:40 [shepazu]
- ... the example shows the differences quite clearly
- 19:50:00 [shepazu]
- .... and there are differences between "accumulate" and "new"
- 19:51:30 [shepazu]
- shepazu: is it possible to use both values, and maybe use an attribute value to switch between them?
- 19:52:12 [shepazu]
- ed: we could have 2 behaviors, because it's used in different contexts, but do we want that?
- 19:52:45 [shepazu]
- ... in filters, it's only used when you have @enable-background
- 19:53:10 [ed__]
- and only when the keyword BackgroundImage is used in the filter
- 19:53:24 [ed__]
- and BackgroundAlpha
- 19:53:26 [shepazu]
- anthony: also, in the compositing module, I do talk about access to the background
- 19:53:30 [ChrisL]
- ChrisL has joined #svg
- 19:54:29 [shepazu]
- anthony: we can talk about this at the f2f
- 19:54:53 [shepazu]
- ... for printing, it may be necessary to keep the Compositing module as it is
- 19:55:39 [shepazu]
- ed: you would get something drawn if you used CompOps, right?
- 19:55:59 [shepazu]
- anthony: yes, it is technically an error if you don't use it
- 19:56:05 [ed__]
- s/ if you used CompOps, right?/ if you used enablebackground on the root and didn't use any CompOps, right?/
- 19:56:51 [shepazu]
- ed: yes, let's talk about it at the F2F... I can add that to the agenda page
- 19:56:59 [anthony]
- s/an error if you don't use it/an error if you don't have a background/
- 19:57:31 [shepazu]
- ed: there is the question of how much content would change if we changed filters
- 19:57:52 [shepazu]
- anthony: I am not convinced that we would need to change the behavior of filters
- 19:58:08 [shepazu]
- ed: so you're recommending that we keep both behaviors
- 19:58:36 [shepazu]
- anthony: yes, if that's possible... maybe we could change names of the attributes, to make a distinction
- 19:58:41 [anthony]
- http://dev.w3.org/SVG/modules/compositing/master/SVGCompositing.html
- 19:58:53 [shepazu]
- anthony: I did make some of the changes Erik requested
- 19:59:43 [shepazu]
- ... I added in the graeter-than/less-than for the optional x/y/width/height values
- 20:00:02 [shepazu]
- ... and added a definition for them as well
- 20:00:20 [shepazu]
- s/graeter/greater/
- 20:01:05 [shepazu]
- anthony: should we hold off publication, or go ahead?
- 20:02:15 [shepazu]
- shepazu: how about we wait until after the f2f
- 20:03:55 [shepazu]
- Topic: SVG Full 1.2 scratchspace module
- 20:04:17 [shepazu]
- ed: I think it might be good to at least start the framework for the next major spec
- 20:04:31 [shepazu]
- ... something that brings in Tiny with the Modules
- 20:04:56 [shepazu]
- ... some of the stuff is best not done in modules, such as cleaning up the SVG DOM
- 20:05:18 [shepazu]
- heycam: animation doesn't correspond to a module, either
- 20:06:20 [shepazu]
- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2009JanMar/0173.html
- 20:06:38 [shepazu]
- shepazu: this is from mozilla's review of widgets
- 20:07:39 [shepazu]
- shepazu: the basic issue is around different use profiles
- 20:07:40 [shepazu]
- http://www.schepers.cc/svg/blendups/embedding.html
- 20:09:44 [shepazu]
- shepazu: I don't talk there about multimedia, but that's another issue (audio, video)
- 20:10:05 [shepazu]
- heycam: what's the purpose of this scratchspace?
- 20:10:33 [shepazu]
- ... is it all the stuff that doesn't fit in a module, along with how to integrate the modules together?
- 20:11:28 [shepazu]
- ed: yes, we do need to start someplace to put all that
- 20:13:17 [shepazu]
- shepazu: I think we can just start this spec, and decide later exactly how we are going to put the next spec together
- 20:13:44 [shepazu]
- ed: I don't think most of the raised issues would fit in an established module
- 20:14:03 [shepazu]
- ... we can at least start the work in this scratch module
- 20:14:43 [shepazu]
- ... we can split parts out later, if we decide that's best
- 20:17:04 [shepazu]
- ed: we could all be editors
- 20:17:15 [shepazu]
- shepazu: yeah, I'm happy to start it and add some structure
- 20:19:37 [shepazu]
- ... I'd like the featurestrings to be derived automatically from the schema
- 20:20:44 [shepazu]
- Action: shepazu to start core/scratch module
- 20:20:44 [trackbot]
- Created ACTION-2426 - Start core/scratch module [on Doug Schepers - due 2009-02-05].
- 20:21:26 [shepazu]
- Topic: ISSUE-2205
- 20:21:27 [shepazu]
- ISSUE-2205?
- 20:21:27 [trackbot]
- ISSUE-2205 -- Consider adding support for stretched, wrapped text in a <textArea> -- RAISED
- 20:21:27 [trackbot]
- http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2205
- 20:24:19 [shepazu]
- shepazu: this is interesting... it's quite different than justifying
- 20:25:22 [shepazu]
- ed: it's similar to SVG 1.1's length-adjust
- 20:25:37 [shepazu]
- heycam: yes, but that doesn't change the font size
- 20:25:56 [ed__]
- lengthAdjust = "spacing|spacingAndGlyphs"
- 20:26:10 [ed__]
- http://www.w3.org/TR/SVG11/text.html#TextElement
- 20:28:21 [shepazu]
- lengthAdjust = "spacing|spacingAndGlyphs|fontSize" ?
- 20:28:32 [shepazu]
- heycam: could be good
- 20:29:55 [shepazu]
- shepazu: this is related (in a way) to sizing text to fit a box, and vice versa
- 20:35:44 [shepazu]
- shepazu: in the case where you have fixed width, it would determine the chunk size, and then adjust the font size accordingly, unlike your example, where you've pre-chunked it
- 20:36:09 [shepazu]
- heycam: it would be less dramatic in that case
- 20:37:45 [shepazu]
- ... in my example, I had to set width to auto, but it should be the hardcoded value of 360
- 20:38:25 [shepazu]
- Topic: ISSUE-2095
- 20:38:29 [shepazu]
- ISSUE-2095?
- 20:38:29 [trackbot]
- ISSUE-2095 -- Algorithm for soft-light blend mode -- RAISED
- 20:38:29 [trackbot]
- http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2095
- 20:38:34 [ed__]
- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2009JanMar/0069.html
- 20:40:54 [shepazu]
- ed: this is for the compositing module
- 20:41:40 [ed__]
- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008OctDec/0036.html
- 20:42:17 [shepazu]
- ed: this email has the algorithms
- 20:42:43 [shepazu]
- ed: is there any reason to differ from PDF?
- 20:43:40 [shepazu]
- anthony: if we're going to follow the Adobe compositing model, then it make sense what's in the ISO PDF spec
- 20:46:01 [shepazu]
- Resolution: we will use the algorithms for the soft-light Color Dodge and Color Burn in the compositing module
- 20:46:41 [shepazu]
- Action: anthony to use the formulae from ISSUE-2095 to update the Compositing module
- 20:46:41 [trackbot]
- Created ACTION-2427 - Use the formulae from ISSUE-2095 to update the Compositing module [on Anthony Grasso - due 2009-02-05].
- 20:49:33 [Zakim]
- -Shepazu
- 20:49:57 [Zakim]
- +Shepazu
- 21:00:52 [shepazu]
- trackbot, end telcon
- 21:00:52 [trackbot]
- Zakim, list attendees
- 21:00:52 [Zakim]
- As of this point the attendees have been ed__, heycam, [IPcaller], Shepazu, anthony, Chris
- 21:00:53 [trackbot]
- RRSAgent, please draft minutes
- 21:00:53 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/01/29-svg-minutes.html trackbot
- 21:00:54 [trackbot]
- RRSAgent, bye
- 21:00:54 [RRSAgent]
- I see 2 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2009/01/29-svg-actions.rdf :
- 21:00:54 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: shepazu to start core/scratch module [1]
- 21:00:54 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/01/29-svg-irc#T20-20-44
- 21:00:54 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: anthony to use the formulae from ISSUE-2095 to update the Compositing module [2]
- 21:00:54 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/01/29-svg-irc#T20-46-41
- 21:00:54 [Zakim]
- -heycam
- 21:00:54 [Zakim]
- -ed__
- 21:01:02 [Zakim]
- -anthony