IRC log of mediafrag on 2009-01-28

Timestamps are in UTC.

09:59:04 [RRSAgent]: RRSAgent has joined #mediafrag
09:59:05 [RRSAgent]: logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/01/28-mediafrag-irc
09:59:06 [trackbot]: RRSAgent, make logs public
09:59:06 [Zakim]: Zakim has joined #mediafrag
09:59:08 [trackbot]: Zakim, this will be IA_MFWG
09:59:08 [Zakim]: ok, trackbot; I see IA_MFWG()5:00AM scheduled to start in 1 minute
09:59:09 [trackbot]: Meeting: Media Fragments Working Group Teleconference
09:59:09 [trackbot]: Date: 28 January 2009
09:59:24 [jackjansen]: jackjansen has joined #mediafrag
09:59:30 [raphael]: Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-fragment/2009Jan/0061.html
09:59:32 [Zakim]: IA_MFWG()5:00AM has now started
09:59:39 [Zakim]: +??P0
09:59:52 [mhausenblas]: Zakim, P0 is me
09:59:52 [Zakim]: sorry, mhausenblas, I do not recognize a party named 'P0'
09:59:59 [Zakim]: +??P1
09:59:59 [mhausenblas]: Zakim, ??P0 is me
10:00:00 [Zakim]: +mhausenblas; got it
10:00:01 [Zakim]: -mhausenblas
10:00:03 [Zakim]: +mhausenblas
10:00:23 [Zakim]: +raphael
10:00:33 [Zakim]: +Yves
10:00:36 [mhausenblas]: Zakim ??P1 is erik
10:00:47 [mhausenblas]: Zakim, ??P1 is erik
10:00:47 [Zakim]: +erik; got it
10:01:04 [davy]: Zakim, davy is with erik
10:01:04 [Zakim]: +davy; got it
10:01:30 [raphael]: Chair: Erik
10:01:40 [tmichel]: tmichel has joined #mediafrag
10:02:04 [jackjansen]: zakim, code?
10:02:04 [Zakim]: the conference code is 3724 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), jackjansen
10:02:41 [Zakim]: +Thierry
10:02:44 [raphael]: Present: Erik, Raphael, Yves, Thierry, Michael, Jack, Silvia, Davy
10:03:07 [Zakim]: + +06128012aaaa
10:03:16 [tmichel]: zakim, mute me
10:03:16 [Zakim]: sorry, tmichel, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you
10:03:20 [raphael]: zakim, aaaa is silvia
10:03:20 [Zakim]: +silvia; got it
10:03:54 [silvia]: zakim, mute me
10:03:54 [Zakim]: silvia should now be muted
10:03:59 [Zakim]: +jackjansen
10:04:06 [raphael]: Scribe: Jack
10:04:11 [silvia]: hi jack
10:04:14 [raphael]: scribenick: jackjansen
10:04:34 [raphael]: Present+: conrad_(irc)
10:05:08 [silvia]: zakim, unmute me
10:05:08 [Zakim]: silvia should no longer be muted
10:06:08 [silvia]: zakim, mute me
10:06:08 [Zakim]: silvia should now be muted
10:06:26 [raphael]: Topic: 1. Admin
10:06:31 [raphael]: +1 for accepting minutes
10:06:37 [davy]: +1
10:06:40 [erik]: +1
10:06:43 [mhausenblas]: +1
10:06:44 [Yves]: +1
10:06:48 [jackjansen]: rapphael: minutes accpeted?
10:06:55 [jackjansen]: all: yes
10:07:03 [silvia]: http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/meeting.html
10:07:09 [jackjansen]: s/rapphael/raphael
10:07:22 [jackjansen]: raphael: should we change meeting slot for Dave?
10:07:24 [silvia]: zakim, unmute me
10:07:24 [Zakim]: silvia should no longer be muted
10:07:50 [jackjansen]: zakim, mute me
10:07:50 [Zakim]: jackjansen should now be muted
10:07:55 [silvia]: zakim, mute me
10:07:55 [Zakim]: silvia should now be muted
10:09:17 [jackjansen]: raphael: for now lets keep it as-is
10:10:20 [tmichel]: zakim, unmute thietty
10:10:20 [Zakim]: sorry, tmichel, I do not know which phone connection belongs to thietty
10:10:25 [jackjansen]: yes
10:10:29 [mhausenblas]: Michael: volunteers to review the MA doc
10:10:34 [tmichel]: zakim, unmute Thierry
10:10:34 [Zakim]: Thierry should no longer be muted
10:10:40 [jackjansen]: action: michael to review Use Cases and Requirements for Ontology and API for Media Object 1.0
10:10:41 [trackbot]: Created ACTION-36 - Review Use Cases and Requirements for Ontology and API for Media Object 1.0 [on Michael Hausenblas - due 2009-02-04].
10:11:50 [jackjansen]: erik: agenda item 2, future participants
10:12:15 [jackjansen]: raphael: blinx will not join.
10:12:36 [jackjansen]: ... teleconf with dailymotion soon
10:13:44 [jackjansen]: michael: wolfgang is interested, could be invited expert.
10:13:52 [raphael]: Wolfgang Jochum
10:14:12 [jackjansen]: raphael: mixup of wolfgangs.
10:14:27 [jackjansen]: michael: ah! Will ask him today
10:14:49 [jackjansen]: yves: no progress on google
10:14:58 [raphael]: close ACTION-1
10:14:58 [trackbot]: ACTION-1 Contact Google AC Rep re member of MediaFrag WG till next week closed
10:15:00 [silvia]: zakim, unmute me
10:15:00 [Zakim]: silvia should no longer be muted
10:15:05 [jackjansen]: close action 1
10:15:33 [silvia]: zakim, mute me
10:15:33 [Zakim]: silvia should now be muted
10:15:41 [jackjansen]: close action 17
10:15:42 [raphael]: close ACTION-17
10:15:42 [trackbot]: ACTION-17 Find out with Philippe who from Google would be interested to join closed
10:16:10 [jackjansen]: erik: will do final attempt for cisco
10:16:33 [jackjansen]: ... also get guillaume on board again
10:16:48 [raphael]: Topic: 3. Working Draft
10:16:51 [jackjansen]: erik: agenda item 3
10:17:25 [jackjansen]: raphael: template is ready, will email details
10:17:30 [raphael]: short: media-frag-reqs
10:17:41 [mhausenblas]: as already mentioned re ACTION-32 ... I can contribute as well to support you ... in case I've CVS access (got my CVS account set up for W3C ;)
10:17:54 [jackjansen]: close action 33
10:18:10 [jackjansen]: close action-33
10:18:11 [trackbot]: ACTION-33 Start the template of the document closed
10:18:12 [raphael]: i will close the action manually as soon as I have the email to the group :-)
10:18:27 [jackjansen]: not checked yet
10:18:43 [jackjansen]: yves: if cvs access does not work mail me
10:19:54 [jackjansen]: unmute me
10:19:58 [jackjansen]: zakim, unmute me
10:19:58 [Zakim]: jackjansen should no longer be muted
10:20:09 [raphael]: Discussion about the syntax
10:20:20 [raphael]: close ACTION-25
10:20:20 [trackbot]: ACTION-25 Describe why smpte is the only frame accurate one closed
10:21:09 [raphael]: Jack: we need SMPTE for frame accuracy
10:21:17 [raphael]: Dave: we only need rationale numbers
10:21:41 [Yves]: s/rationale/rational
10:22:06 [silvia]: zakim, unmute me
10:22:06 [Zakim]: silvia should no longer be muted
10:22:31 [raphael]: +1 with Jack for having SMPTE timecode only
10:22:41 [jackjansen]: silvia: rational numbers not used often
10:22:52 [silvia]: zakim, mute me
10:22:52 [Zakim]: silvia should now be muted
10:22:55 [jackjansen]: ... smpte is better
10:23:04 [jackjansen]: close action 25
10:23:10 [jackjansen]: close action-25
10:23:10 [trackbot]: ACTION-25 Describe why smpte is the only frame accurate one closed
10:23:17 [jackjansen]: zakim, mute me
10:23:17 [Zakim]: jackjansen should now be muted
10:24:01 [jackjansen]: raphael: on to action 27, units to use (pixels, cm, inch, etc)
10:24:05 [jackjansen]: yves: will work on it
10:24:24 [jackjansen]: zakim, unmute me
10:24:24 [Zakim]: jackjansen should no longer be muted
10:25:31 [jackjansen]: zakim, mute me
10:25:31 [Zakim]: jackjansen should now be muted
10:25:34 [raphael]: Results: http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/42785/MFRAGSYNTAXSEPARATOR/results
10:25:52 [jackjansen]: jack: nothing done yet on 28
10:25:54 [raphael]: 6 for ampersand, 1 for semi-colon
10:26:14 [jackjansen]: erik: separators.
10:26:28 [silvia]: zakim, unmute me
10:26:28 [Zakim]: silvia should no longer be muted
10:27:19 [jackjansen]: silvia: there is a bit of an issue with thousands separators. Let's state we do not use them.
10:27:28 [raphael]: +1
10:27:48 [Yves]: +1 to not using thousands separators
10:27:54 [jackjansen]: +1
10:28:37 [silvia]: zakim, mute me
10:28:37 [Zakim]: silvia should now be muted
10:29:08 [jackjansen]: raphael: primary separator: 6 votes for &, one for ;
10:29:14 [jackjansen]: ... others please vote
10:30:14 [jackjansen]: raphael: reololution: primary separator is ampoersand
10:30:30 [raphael]: RESOLUTION: primary separator will be the ampersand character
10:30:38 [silvia]: zakim, unmute me
10:30:38 [Zakim]: silvia should no longer be muted
10:30:53 [mhausenblas]: zakim, draft minutes
10:30:53 [Zakim]: I don't understand 'draft minutes', mhausenblas
10:30:57 [raphael]: Second poll: http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/42785/MFRAGSYNTAXRECTANGLE/results
10:31:10 [mhausenblas]: rrsagent, draft minutes
10:31:10 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/01/28-mediafrag-minutes.html mhausenblas
10:31:12 [jackjansen]: erik: rects has silvia as odd-man-out
10:31:29 [jackjansen]: silvia: css does not use xywh. it uses trbl
10:31:30 [mhausenblas]: rrsagent, make minutes public
10:31:30 [RRSAgent]: I'm logging. I don't understand 'make minutes public', mhausenblas. Try /msg RRSAgent help
10:31:41 [mhausenblas]: rrsagent, make records public
10:31:47 [mhausenblas]: rrsagent, draft minutes
10:31:47 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/01/28-mediafrag-minutes.html mhausenblas
10:32:09 [mhausenblas]: s/RESOLUTION: p/RESOLVED: p
10:32:12 [mhausenblas]: rrsagent, draft minutes
10:32:12 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/01/28-mediafrag-minutes.html mhausenblas
10:32:54 [jackjansen]: raphael: in email I said we should allow trbl and xywh
10:33:39 [jackjansen]: RESOLVED: primary separator will be the ampersand character
10:34:19 [jackjansen]: silvia: maybe do all
10:35:05 [jackjansen]: raphael: lets doo all for the first wd
10:35:10 [jackjansen]: s/doo/do
10:35:16 [jackjansen]: ... let the community decide
10:35:19 [raphael]: raphael: I suggest to put ijn the WD the various possibilities, and let the community decide
10:35:21 [mhausenblas]: +1
10:35:27 [erik]: +1
10:35:28 [jackjansen]: +1
10:35:29 [davy]: +1
10:35:29 [silvia]: +1
10:35:32 [silvia]: zakim, mute me
10:35:32 [Zakim]: silvia should now be muted
10:35:48 [raphael]: next poll results: http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/42785/MFRAGSYNTAXQUOTE/results
10:35:51 [jackjansen]: RESOLUTION: will do all 4 schemes for the first working draft and let the community decide
10:36:04 [jackjansen]: erik: next one: the quotes
10:36:22 [jackjansen]: zakim, unmute me
10:36:22 [Zakim]: jackjansen should no longer be muted
10:36:47 [silvia]: zakim, unmute me
10:36:47 [Zakim]: silvia should no longer be muted
10:37:00 [mhausenblas]: just for the record, as I guess we will not be able to approach agenda item 4 today anymore
10:37:25 [mhausenblas]: I've created an issue now for the registry stuff, see http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/issues/3
10:37:26 [Yves]: ike & -> & " -> &#XX;
10:37:34 [Yves]: s/ike/like/
10:37:58 [jackjansen]: zakim, mute me
10:37:58 [Zakim]: jackjansen should now be muted
10:38:14 [jackjansen]: silvia: double quotes are not allowed in urls according to spec.
10:38:24 [jackjansen]: ... will also check for &, while we're at it
10:39:07 [jackjansen]: erik: everybody says optional, except michael.
10:40:31 [jackjansen]: michael: not too strong an opinion. I'm fine with optional
10:40:48 [jackjansen]: RESOLUTION: quotes are optional. Single or double tbd
10:40:57 [mhausenblas]: rrsagent, draft minutes
10:40:57 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/01/28-mediafrag-minutes.html mhausenblas
10:41:03 [jackjansen]: RESOLVED: quotes are optional. Single or double tbd
10:41:19 [jackjansen]: silvia: ampersand is allowed (unlike double quote)
10:41:27 [silvia]: sub-delims = "!" / "$" / "&" / "'" / "(" / ")"
10:41:27 [silvia]: / "*" / "+" / "," / ";" / "="
10:41:27 [silvia]: gen-delims = ":" / "/" / "?" / "#" / "[" / "]" / "@"
10:41:27 [silvia]: sub-delims = "!" / "$" / "&" / "'" / "(" / ")"
10:41:27 [silvia]: / "*" / "+" / "," / ";" / "="
10:42:54 [jackjansen]: zakim, unmute me
10:42:54 [Zakim]: jackjansen should no longer be muted
10:42:55 [silvia]: http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc3986.txt
10:43:21 [silvia]: zakim, mute me
10:43:21 [Zakim]: silvia should now be muted
10:43:29 [raphael]: raphael thinks that Silvia said that double quotes are simply forbidden as per RFC3986
10:43:31 [jackjansen]: zakim, mute me
10:43:31 [Zakim]: jackjansen should now be muted
10:43:47 [silvia]: zakim, unmute me
10:43:47 [Zakim]: silvia should no longer be muted
10:43:58 [jackjansen]: RESOLUTION: we use only single quotes as double are not in uri construction
10:44:17 [raphael]: +1
10:44:18 [erik]: +1
10:44:21 [silvia]: +1
10:44:21 [jackjansen]: +1
10:44:23 [silvia]: zakim, mute me
10:44:23 [Zakim]: silvia should now be muted
10:45:22 [jackjansen]: raphael: will send wrapup of feedback to list (
10:45:36 [mhausenblas]: rrsagent, pick up agenda item 4
10:45:36 [RRSAgent]: I'm logging. I don't understand 'pick up agenda item 4', mhausenblas. Try /msg RRSAgent help
10:45:37 [jackjansen]: raphael: action 22 can be closed
10:45:45 [mhausenblas]: rrsagent, pick up item 4
10:45:45 [RRSAgent]: I'm logging. I don't understand 'pick up item 4', mhausenblas. Try /msg RRSAgent help
10:45:48 [jackjansen]: close action-22
10:45:48 [trackbot]: ACTION-22 Complete the table, trying to get the answer for the current question marks, except when this is a close format closed
10:46:05 [jackjansen]: topic: 4. issues
10:46:16 [silvia]: zakim, unmute me
10:46:16 [Zakim]: silvia should no longer be muted
10:46:44 [mhausenblas]: Zakim, pick up agenda item 4
10:46:44 [Zakim]: I don't understand 'pick up agenda item 4', mhausenblas
10:47:07 [raphael]: discussion about ISSUE-1: http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/issues/1
10:47:28 [mhausenblas]: Zakim, take up agenda item 4
10:47:28 [Zakim]: I see nothing on the agenda
10:47:43 [jackjansen]: silvia: summarizes mail discussion, we want scenario 3
10:47:47 [mhausenblas]: agenda?
10:48:28 [mhausenblas]: Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-fragment/2009Jan/0061.html
10:48:33 [mhausenblas]: agenda?
10:49:18 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/01/28-mediafrag-minutes.html raphael
10:49:26 [jackjansen]: jack: violently agrees with silvia
10:49:55 [jackjansen]: raphael: will summarize
10:50:13 [silvia]: zakim, mute me
10:50:13 [Zakim]: silvia should now be muted
10:50:15 [jackjansen]: action: raphael to summarize comnining time clipping dicsusion
10:50:15 [trackbot]: Sorry, couldn't find user - raphael
10:50:38 [jackjansen]: zakim, unmute me
10:50:38 [Zakim]: jackjansen should no longer be muted
10:50:38 [raphael]: trackbot, list people
10:50:38 [trackbot]: Sorry, raphael, I don't understand 'trackbot, list people'. Please refer to http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc for help
10:51:00 [raphael]: trackbot, status
10:51:41 [jackjansen]: action: raphaël to summarize clip-combining discussion
10:51:41 [trackbot]: Created ACTION-37 - Summarize clip-combining discussion [on Raphaël Troncy - due 2009-02-04].
10:51:52 [jackjansen]: zakim, unmute me
10:51:52 [Zakim]: jackjansen was not muted, jackjansen
10:51:58 [raphael]: ISSUE-2: http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/issues/2
10:51:58 [trackbot]: ISSUE-2 What is the mime type of a media fragment? What is its relation with its parent resource? notes added
10:52:06 [mhausenblas]: q+
10:52:14 [jackjansen]: erik: on to mime types for fragments
10:52:26 [mhausenblas]: Zakim, ack me
10:52:27 [Zakim]: I see no one on the speaker queue
10:54:13 [mhausenblas]: Michael: question is blurry, for me more issues, I've created ISSUE-3 re the registry part of it
10:54:58 [raphael]: Yves: when we create a new representation (new mime-type), we create a new resource
10:55:04 [jackjansen]: yves: new mimetype means new resource
10:55:24 [silvia]: +1
10:55:25 [jackjansen]: michael: sounds good
10:55:29 [jackjansen]: +1
10:55:33 [davy]: +1
10:55:34 [erik]: +1
10:56:13 [jackjansen]: url, anyone, for issue in tracker/
10:56:31 [silvia]: zakim, unmute me
10:56:31 [Zakim]: silvia should no longer be muted
10:56:42 [mhausenblas]: ISSUE-3: http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/issues/3
10:56:42 [trackbot]: ISSUE-3 Does our MF URI syntax imlpy that we need to update MIME Type registrations? notes added
10:57:42 [jackjansen]: silvia: this goes beyond our scope
10:58:22 [raphael]: registry is not possible since we do not own the mime types jpg, jpg2000, avi, mov, etc.
10:59:02 [jackjansen]: michael: but if we follow specs to the letter we must.
10:59:08 [silvia]: http://example.com/image.jpg#trbl=2,4,4,6
10:59:25 [jackjansen]: ... need to show we have addressed this issue (even if by ignoring it because we cannot fix it)
11:00:22 [raphael]: Silvia: temporalURI had the same problem ...
11:00:40 [jackjansen]: Folks, I have to leave.
11:00:42 [raphael]: Silvia: we did that for ogg because we own the format
11:00:45 [jackjansen]: Can someone pick up minuting?
11:01:00 [raphael]: scribenick: raphael
11:01:01 [jackjansen]: ok. l8r!
11:01:09 [Zakim]: -jackjansen
11:01:35 [raphael]: Silvia: I do not agree we have a problem here ... we have discussed that from the beginning
11:01:44 [raphael]: Michael: we have 2 different opinions
11:01:57 [raphael]: ... I think Raphael said 'we do not care'
11:02:05 [raphael]: ... and I say we should care
11:03:20 [raphael]: Raphael: I said, we stick in the general framework of RFC3986, unspecified semantics
11:03:35 [mhausenblas]: +1
11:04:33 [raphael]: Raphael: should we write a paragraph to state what we aim for ?
11:04:44 [raphael]: Michael: yes, I volunteer to do draft that
11:04:50 [mhausenblas]: Michael: sorry for missinterpreting Raphael, ack his wording
11:06:17 [silvia]: +1
11:06:19 [raphael]: ACTION: Michael to draft a paragraph that will solve ISSUE-3
11:06:19 [trackbot]: Created ACTION-38 - Draft a paragraph that will solve ISSUE-3 [on Michael Hausenblas - due 2009-02-04].
11:06:23 [mhausenblas]: +1
11:07:17 [Zakim]: -erik
11:07:18 [Zakim]: -Yves
11:07:19 [Zakim]: -Thierry
11:07:21 [Zakim]: -raphael
11:07:26 [raphael]: RRSAgen, draft minutes
11:07:27 [Zakim]: -mhausenblas
11:07:34 [raphael]: RRSAgent, draft minutes
11:07:34 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/01/28-mediafrag-minutes.html raphael
11:07:35 [mhausenblas]: Michael: notes to himself re action 4 that he needs to include the sentence 'we don't own specs, so general case applies;
11:07:42 [Zakim]: -silvia
11:07:43 [Zakim]: IA_MFWG()5:00AM has ended
11:07:44 [Zakim]: Attendees were mhausenblas, raphael, Yves, erik, davy, Thierry, +06128012aaaa, silvia, jackjansen
11:07:46 [mhausenblas]: [adjourned]
11:07:52 [raphael]: RRSAgent, draft minutes
11:07:52 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/01/28-mediafrag-minutes.html raphael
11:08:43 [mhausenblas]: Zakim, bye
11:08:43 [Zakim]: Zakim has left #mediafrag
11:08:48 [mhausenblas]: rrsagent, byw
11:08:48 [RRSAgent]: I'm logging. I don't understand 'byw', mhausenblas. Try /msg RRSAgent help
11:08:52 [mhausenblas]: rrsagent, bye
11:08:52 [RRSAgent]: I see 4 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2009/01/28-mediafrag-actions.rdf :
11:08:52 [RRSAgent]: ACTION: michael to review Use Cases and Requirements for Ontology and API for Media Object 1.0 [1]
11:08:52 [RRSAgent]: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/01/28-mediafrag-irc#T10-10-40
11:08:52 [RRSAgent]: ACTION: raphael to summarize comnining time clipping dicsusion [2]
11:08:52 [RRSAgent]: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/01/28-mediafrag-irc#T10-50-15
11:08:52 [RRSAgent]: ACTION: raphaël to summarize clip-combining discussion [3]
11:08:52 [RRSAgent]: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/01/28-mediafrag-irc#T10-51-41
11:08:52 [RRSAgent]: ACTION: Michael to draft a paragraph that will solve ISSUE-3 [4]
11:08:52 [RRSAgent]: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/01/28-mediafrag-irc#T11-06-19