13:01:06 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #mediaann
13:01:06 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/01/27-mediaann-irc
13:01:08 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
13:01:10 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be MAWG
13:01:10 <Zakim> ok, trackbot, I see IA_MAWG()8:00AM already started
13:01:11 <trackbot> Meeting: Media Annotations Working Group Teleconference
13:01:11 <trackbot> Date: 27 January 2009
13:01:19 <raphael> zakim, who is here?
13:01:19 <Zakim> On the phone I see pchampin, Thierry, ??P2, wbailer, raphael
13:01:20 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, Zakim, pchampin, Victor, joakim, wbailer, raphael, tmichel, wonsuk, trackbot
13:01:26 <raphael> zakim, mute Thierry
13:01:26 <Zakim> Thierry should now be muted
13:01:27 <tmichel> Zakim, who is here?
13:01:28 <Zakim> On the phone I see pchampin, Thierry (muted), ??P2, wbailer, raphael
13:01:29 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, Zakim, pchampin, Victor, joakim, wbailer, raphael, tmichel, wonsuk, trackbot
13:01:40 <Zakim> +joakim
13:01:45 <raphael> Thierry, I muted you, you made a lot of noise :-(
13:01:51 <tmichel> I get a terrible BUZZZZZZ
13:02:07 <raphael> thierry, are you skyping?
13:02:22 <raphael> zakim, mute me
13:02:22 <Zakim> raphael should now be muted
13:02:45 <tmichel> No I am using a phone over IP, but I can't hear a thing
13:02:58 <tmichel> zakim, mute me
13:02:58 <Zakim> sorry, tmichel, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you
13:03:18 <tmichel> I will redial in
13:03:23 <Zakim> -Thierry
13:03:42 <VeroniqueM> VeroniqueM has joined #mediaann
13:04:01 <raphael> zakim, mute pchampin
13:04:01 <Zakim> pchampin should now be muted
13:04:09 <Zakim> +Thierry
13:04:24 <tmichel> It is much better now
13:05:07 <Zakim> +veronique
13:05:25 <tmichel> Zakim, who is here?
13:05:25 <Zakim> On the phone I see pchampin (muted), ??P2, wbailer, raphael, joakim, Thierry, veronique
13:05:29 <Zakim> On IRC I see VeroniqueM, RRSAgent, Zakim, pchampin, Victor, joakim, wbailer, raphael, tmichel, wonsuk, trackbot
13:05:52 <Zakim> +??P9
13:06:37 <tmichel> We have regrets from Felix,
13:06:37 <tmichel> Michele Minno ,Jean-Pierre
13:06:51 <tmichel> Looking for a vulunteer to scribe ...
13:07:14 <raphael> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-annotation/2009Jan/0065.html
13:07:15 <tmichel> Scribe:joakim
13:08:05 <joakim> co-chair Daniel will be back soon
13:08:24 <joakim> Regrets: Frank, Felix, Michel Jean Pierre
13:09:18 <tmichel> There was a meeting ?
13:09:22 <joakim> Last week telecom meetings are not on the web
13:09:36 <raphael> There was a meeting, and the minutes are at http://www.w3.org/2009/01/20-mediaann-minutes.html
13:11:22 <tmichel> The scribe should send the minutes with the URI
13:12:52 <raphael> The Media Fragments WG keep the minutes in the same web space, but remove the 'draft' when the minutes have been fixed and approved
13:13:12 <joakim> topic: Actions points
13:13:41 <joakim> The Scribe should mail the edited minutes to the public mail list
13:15:42 <joakim> Should we include Vicots contribution "Multimedia Presentation material" to the uc document?
13:16:09 <VeroniqueM> s/Vicots/Victor's
13:16:11 <raphael> Is it http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-annotation/2009Jan/0049.html ?
13:16:11 <Victor> Action 55 was attended here:
13:16:11 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - 55
13:16:15 <Victor> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-annotation/2009Jan/att-0049/00-part
13:17:22 <pchampin> Zakim, mute tmichel
13:17:23 <Zakim> sorry, pchampin, I do not know which phone connection belongs to tmichel
13:17:36 <raphael> zakim, mute ??P9
13:17:36 <Zakim> ??P9 should now be muted
13:19:19 <Victor> We got no comments on the email 
13:19:34 <joakim> who has read the document, and has an opinion?
13:20:14 <joakim> Werner: it's important, but maybe it should hold cross all use cases?
13:20:19 <Victor> Does any other Use Case support Requirement 7?
13:20:43 <pchampin> zakim, who is here?
13:20:43 <Zakim> On the phone I see pchampin (muted), ??P2, wbailer, raphael, joakim, Thierry, veronique, ??P9 (muted)
13:20:45 <Zakim> On IRC I see VeroniqueM, RRSAgent, Zakim, pchampin, Victor, joakim, wbailer, raphael, tmichel, wonsuk, trackbot
13:20:53 <VeroniqueM> I think that it is a very interesting topic but i think that it is mostly related to the ongoing question of considering complex/simple models, maybe the latter question should be answered first?
13:21:01 <pchampin> zakim, unmute me
13:21:01 <Zakim> pchampin should no longer be muted
13:21:24 <joakim> Victor: Is it possible to change an existing use case and include no / into that one?
13:22:07 <pchampin> +1
13:22:51 <joakim> Veronique: The UC7 could be incorporated into cultural heritage UC!
13:23:04 <joakim> +1
13:23:04 <wbailer> agree to including it in CH use case, maybe also in MM adaptation (if we make a use case out of that)
13:23:57 <joakim> Veronique: This is related to the question of the complexity of the model
13:24:59 <raphael> I also think this text should go in the CH use case
13:25:34 <joakim> Victor: Add a sentence to the CH description
13:25:44 <Victor> By changing the last paragraph.... 
13:26:42 <joakim> Action 55 is now about reformulating th CH description
13:26:42 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - 55
13:27:46 <joakim> regret+ tobias
13:29:07 <raphael> good job Werner, Frank :-)
13:29:58 <joakim> Werner: many mpeg-7 properties could be mapped to XMP, but some are not covered in XMP
13:30:45 <joakim> We discuss later how to alter the mapping agenda
13:30:52 <joakim> close 74
13:31:00 <raphael> close ACTION-74
13:31:00 <trackbot> ACTION-74 Review SMPTE closed
13:31:25 <raphael> close ACTION-73
13:31:25 <trackbot> ACTION-73 review with werner MPEG-7 closed
13:32:09 <tobias> tobias has joined #mediaann
13:33:42 <pchampin> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-annotation/2009Jan/0061.html
13:33:49 <tobias> done already
13:33:58 <tobias> has been done already the last time
13:34:17 <joakim> Pierre Antoine: The DC/DCTerm disucssuion is open on the mailinglist
13:35:18 <joakim> PA: Don't agree that the main question is about the API
13:35:26 <joakim> can you speak louder?
13:35:46 <joakim> better
13:36:36 <joakim> PA: We should also define the low level meaning of the propoerties, not only the high level semantics
13:37:21 <joakim> cant hear
13:37:59 <joakim> How can we define the low level mapping?
13:38:35 <raphael> I do see some problems to have discrepancies between having on one hand a lightweight semantics for the creator property (accept string value) in the API and on the other hand another semantics for the same property (URI value) in the ontology
13:39:49 <joakim> we could define the target of the properties precisely
13:40:32 <tmichel> how could that be done ?
13:40:53 <joakim> PA: we should have an Ontology that define this
13:41:00 <Zakim> +??P18
13:41:12 <joakim> Can raphael explain his point?
13:41:30 <tobias> Zakim ??P18 is me
13:42:02 <joakim> Raphael: Should it be two different return values
13:42:04 <tobias> Zakim, ??P18 is me
13:42:04 <Zakim> +tobias; got it
13:42:49 <wonsuk> Zakim, ??P9 is me
13:42:49 <Zakim> +wonsuk; got it
13:42:57 <joakim> PA: If we map according to the mapping table, it would return very hetrogenus values
13:44:23 <joakim> PA: Prefer to be more formal in the Ontology
13:45:31 <pchampin> but I agree that we could also be formal only at the API level
13:46:54 <joakim> joakim: we could be practical doing toy applications and decide after how to cope with the proble,
13:47:24 <joakim> PA: agrees that we should be practical as sson as possible
13:48:02 <joakim> Veronique: based on what?
13:48:09 <wonsuk> s/sson/soon
13:49:23 <joakim> PA. we should aim at making an intermediate implmentation
13:49:38 <pchampin> s/implmentation/representation
13:50:43 <joakim> PA: We should have a more precise idea of the global structure of the ontology
13:51:03 <pchampin> s/ontology/API
13:51:21 <joakim> We should have a common view of the complexity level before implmenting
13:51:55 <VeroniqueM> we can also have different levels of complexity of the representations, domain dependant?
13:52:16 <joakim> Does any one have a suggestino on how to move on?
13:52:25 <VeroniqueM> DC and VRA and XMP exist in RDF, then we can use rdf-ways of representing mappings
13:52:45 <joakim> s/suggestino/suggestion
13:54:47 <joakim> Veronique: We can use the level of mapping/link representation found in existing implmentations
13:55:09 <joakim> PA: the level is different in different implementations
13:55:33 <joakim> PA: Maybe to propose some example code foer each case
13:55:42 <joakim> s/foer/for
13:55:46 <joakim> +1
13:56:59 <joakim> PA: divide the problem per use case
13:57:37 <joakim> pA: it should work whatever the format
13:57:42 <raphael> Raphael: does it mean then that implementation = 1/ (python/java/pick_yours) code expressing mappings between some properties ; 2/ (owl/skos) code expressing mappings between some properties, etc. ?
13:58:40 <joakim> PA: the code doesnt have to represent the mapping
13:58:48 <joakim> PA: the mapping should be hidden
13:59:20 <joakim> Either a mapping relationship or an ontology
13:59:34 <Victor> but the mapping itself has to be represented
13:59:40 <raphael> or ... being not exclusive, it could be both :-)
14:00:14 <joakim>  the mapping should be hidden to the developer
14:00:17 <joakim> agree
14:01:05 <joakim> PA: Was thinking about writing code showing how to use our API
14:01:45 <joakim> PA: Write code that illustrates how to use our API
14:03:11 <tobias> q+ regarding Felix's intention
14:04:41 <joakim> can PA start to draft a use case?
14:04:48 <pchampin> ok
14:05:13 <joakim> we did not have time to finish the agenda
14:05:26 <joakim> our first public document was published last monday
14:05:38 <joakim> we have telecon next week same time
14:06:17 <joakim> Victor: Will attend the MPEG meeting next week
14:06:29 <raphael> q+ regarding when is the due date for commenting the FPWD?
14:06:53 <joakim> respond to Victors PPT before the end of the week
14:07:10 <tobias> q+ regarding action-66
14:08:30 <joakim> we should start to collect updates for the UC doc
14:08:37 <Victor> ok
14:08:49 <raphael> q?
14:09:15 <Zakim> -veronique
14:09:16 <Zakim> -wbailer
14:09:17 <Zakim> -raphael
14:09:17 <Victor> goodbye!
14:09:17 <tobias> Tobias: regarding action-66: sent it to the list already on the 19th
14:09:39 <Zakim> -wonsuk
14:09:41 <wonsuk> wonsuk has left #mediaann
14:09:48 <joakim> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:09:48 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/01/27-mediaann-minutes.html joakim
14:10:16 <Zakim> -tobias
14:14:08 <Zakim> -Thierry
14:14:10 <Zakim> -pchampin
14:14:11 <Zakim> -joakim
14:14:12 <Zakim> -??P2
14:14:12 <Zakim> IA_MAWG()8:00AM has ended
14:14:14 <Zakim> Attendees were pchampin, Thierry, wbailer, raphael, joakim, veronique, tobias, wonsuk
14:14:14 <Victor> ciao!
14:14:18 <pchampin> pchampin has left #mediaann
14:14:25 <Victor> i was also attendee!
14:14:26 <joakim> @+
14:14:40 <joakim> present +victor
14:15:35 <joakim> present+ thierry, werner, rapahel, joakim, veronique, tobias, wonsuk
14:15:38 <joakim> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:15:38 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/01/27-mediaann-minutes.html joakim
16:22:37 <Zakim> Zakim has left #mediaann