20:49:42 RRSAgent has joined #au 20:49:42 logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/01/12-au-irc 20:49:48 Zakim, this will be AUWG 20:49:48 ok, JR; I see WAI_AUWG()3:00PM scheduled to start 49 minutes ago 20:49:53 Meeting: WAI AU 20:50:34 Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-au/2009JanMar/0011.html 20:51:40 Regrets: Tim B., Anne M. 20:58:01 AndrewR has joined #au 21:01:00 jeanne has joined #au 21:01:05 zakim, code? 21:01:05 the conference code is 2894 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), JR 21:01:10 WAI_AUWG()3:00PM has now started 21:01:17 +jeanne 21:01:34 +??P2 21:01:46 -jeanne 21:01:50 zakim, ??P2 is really JR 21:01:50 +JR; got it 21:02:03 +jeanne 21:02:57 +[IPcaller] 21:03:54 + +1.561.582.aaaa 21:04:01 zaki,. [IPcaller] is really Jutta 21:04:24 zakim, [IPcaller] is really Jutta 21:04:24 +Jutta; got it 21:04:41 zakim, aaaa is really Sueann 21:04:41 +Sueann; got it 21:05:10 +??P0 21:06:00 zakim, ??P0 is really AndrewR 21:06:00 +AndrewR; got it 21:07:41 +Greg_Pisocky 21:08:20 chair: Jutta 21:08:39 Greg has joined #au 21:08:43 Sueann has joined #au 21:09:38 present+ Andrew, Greg, Jan, Jeanne, Jutta, Sueann 21:10:03 agenda:http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-au/2009JanMar/0011.html 21:11:03 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-au/2009JanMar/0011.html 21:11:35 topic: glossary terms 21:12:16 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-au/2009JanMar/0004.html 21:12:33 Link to document http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-au/2009JanMar/att-0006/ATAG2_Glossary_Review__Rev2_.doc 21:13:35 authoring practice 21:13:37 A technique that guides authors or the authoring tool in selecting authoring actions to apply to content in order to achieve particular authoring outcomes. (e.g., controlling presentation with style sheets). An accessible authoring practice is one that seeks to avoid or correct one or more Web content accessibility problems. Some accessible authoring practices require accessibility information. 21:15:12 JR: This is meant to pair up with WCAG Techniques. 21:16:10 GP: Is the idea to select authoring actions or techniques to provide a more accessible outcome? 21:16:49 JR: They want an outcome - for example, a certain color on the screen. 21:17:31 GP: the idea being that the one that results in the most accessible outcome being the one to pick. 21:18:25 JT: There are two definitions here, authoring practice and accessible authoring practice. It is referred to as Technique in WCAG, but we have used "practice" extensively through the document. 21:19:06 ... Do we harmonize with WCAG, and if so, what are the implications to our document. 21:19:29 JR: Problem in that the WCAG Techniques are information, but our definitions are normative. 21:20:02 offer 2 definitions "authoring practice" and "Accessible Authoring Practice" ? 21:20:15 JT: This is what you habitually use, the day to day actions of your authoring job, functions, etc. 21:20:50 JR: We mostly use it in B.3.2 and B.3.5. 21:21:09 JT: Encouraging accessible authoring practices are the core of section B. 21:21:49 JT: Do we want to break it into two definitions? 21:21:59 GP: this would make it more clear to developers. 21:22:49 JT: Is this sufficiently important that it merits its own definition? 21:23:57 JS: People may not read the accessible authoring practices definition if it is not embedded. 21:26:38 JR: the definition for Accessible Authoring Practice is ok, it is the Authoring Practice definition that needs more work. 21:27:02 JT: It seems overly negative. There is no reference to positive things that improve accessibility. 21:27:27 JR: But if we do that, we make it too nebulous and open it up too much. 21:28:20 JT: Providing web accessibility support. It is easier to define in opposition, but there is another side to the story. 21:29:57 JT: I will take an action to rewrite this, but I would like some feedback on using the word "technique" 21:30:18 Action JR: Rework "accessile authoring pracitces" more positively, mention "supports" 21:30:18 Created ACTION-76 - Rework \"accessile authoring pracitces\" more positively, mention \"supports\" [on Jan Richards - due 2009-01-19]. 21:30:26 s/JT: I will take an action to/JR: I will take an action to 21:31:04 JT: Does it guide the author in selecting things, or is it a convention? 21:32:17 JR: These are like design patterns, that you do over and over makes it a practice. 21:33:22 JT: "approach" is another good word, also "convention" 21:36:06 JT: before the author makes the choice, of what is accessible and what is not. We are influencing the choice they make toward more accessible. 21:36:56 JR: Authoring Action is consistent with that, so we can use that approach. I will come back to the group with a new proposal based on this discussion. 21:37:00 JR: Jan to work in "approaches" or "conventions" and work out "authoing tools. 21:37:06 topic: authoring session 21:37:13 authoring session 21:37:15 A state of the authoring tool in which content can be edited by an author. The end of an authoring session is the point at which the author has no further opportunity to make changes without starting another session. The end of an authoring session may be determined by authors (e.g., closing a document, publishing) or by the authoring tool (e.g., when the authoring tool transfers editing... 21:37:17 ...permission to another author on a collaborative system). Note that the end of the authoring session is distinct from publishing. Automated content generation may continue after the end of both the authoring session and initial publishing (e.g., CMS updates). 21:39:07 GP: this is the period of time when the author has the ability to make changes to content. 21:39:26 JT: and the tool has to provide prompts, etc to help the author make choices. 21:40:36 action: JS to update the glossary to include the new definition of authoring session. 21:40:36 Created ACTION-77 - Update the glossary to include the new definition of authoring session. [on Jeanne Spellman - due 2009-01-19]. 21:40:38 topic: authoring tool user interface (non-Web-based) 21:40:48 authoring tool user interface (non-Web-based) 21:40:50 Any parts of an authoring tool user interface that are not implemented as Web content and instead run directly on a platform that is not a user agent, such as Windows, MacOS, Java Virtual Machine, etc. 21:41:05 rrsagent, make logs public 21:41:10 rrsagent, make minutes 21:41:10 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/01/12-au-minutes.html jeanne 21:41:41 JR: I wonder if we even need this term' 21:42:13 ... we could say, those parts of the authoring tool that are not web-based. 21:42:49 GP: Do we care whether it is web based or non-web based? 21:43:00 JT: We can reference WCAG if it is web based. 21:44:46 JR: We only use it when referencing WCAG. For the other SC for non-web based, we could say "authoring tool user interfaces that are not web based" ... 21:45:11 JR: It eliminates the double negative. 21:45:57 JT: then the link wouldn't go to the non-web based definition, it would go to the web-based definition and the sentence linking to it would say, not. 21:47:11 JS: thinks it is confusing to link into a definition that is the opposite. 21:48:51 JR: the changes are pretty simple. 21:49:00 authoring tool user interface (Web-based) 21:49:02 Any parts of an authoring tool user interface that are implemented using Web content technologies and are accessed by authors via a user agent. Since Web-based tools may be implemented in the same Web content technologies that they are used to edit, the distinction between the tools own interface and the content being edited may be less clear than with non-Web-based authoring tools. 21:49:29 topic: authoring tool user interface (Web-based) 21:51:59 JS: Roberto commented in the survey that he preferrs "components" to "parts" 21:52:21 JR: we have a definition for components that is more restrictive than what we are using in this definition. 21:52:52 JT: Do we need the second sentence? 21:53:00 GP: I think we could remove that. 21:53:13 +1 for removing it. 21:53:37 s/ +1 for removing it./JS: +1 for removing it. 21:54:05 Final: authoring tool user interface (Web-based) 21:54:07 Any parts of an authoring tool user interface that are implemented using Web content technologies and are accessed by authors via a user agent. 21:54:28 action: JS to update document glossary with revised definition of authoring tool user interface (Web-based) 21:54:28 Created ACTION-78 - Update document glossary with revised definition of authoring tool user interface (Web-based) [on Jeanne Spellman - due 2009-01-19]. 21:56:43 authoring tool user interface 21:56:45 The display and control mechanism that authors use to operate the authoring tool software. User interfaces may be non-Web-based or Web-based or a combination (e.g., a non-Web-based authoring tool might have Web-based help pages). An accessible authoring tool user interface is one that meets the success criteria in Part A (i.e., does not include any authoring tool user interface accessibility... 21:56:47 ...problems) to a particular level.. 21:56:47 JR: The reason for keeping the definition when it has a definition of "not" when we could remove the whole definition 21:57:02 topic:authoring tool user interface 21:58:58 JR: We could remove the (i.e., ...) because it interrupts the flow. 21:59:05 The display and control mechanism that authors use to operate the authoring tool software. User interfaces may be non-Web-based or Web-based or a combination (e.g., a non-Web-based authoring tool might have Web-based help pages). An accessible authoring tool user interface is one that meets the success criteria of a level in Part A.. 21:59:56 action: JS to update the document glossary with the revised definition of Authoring Tool User Interface. 21:59:56 Created ACTION-79 - Update the document glossary with the revised definition of Authoring Tool User Interface. [on Jeanne Spellman - due 2009-01-19]. 22:01:02 -Greg_Pisocky 22:01:05 -Sueann 22:01:34 -AndrewR 22:01:49 RRSAgent, make minutes 22:01:49 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/01/12-au-minutes.html JR 22:01:53 AndrewR has left #au 22:01:59 RRSAgent, set logs public 22:02:21 action: JS to update the survey removing the glossary items covered today, add a new item about keeping the non-Web based definition and extend the survey to next week. 22:02:21 Created ACTION-80 - Update the survey removing the glossary items covered today, add a new item about keeping the non-Web based definition and extend the survey to next week. [on Jeanne Spellman - due 2009-01-19]. 22:02:42 RRSAgent, make minutes 22:02:42 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/01/12-au-minutes.html JR 22:02:50 Zakim, bye 22:02:50 leaving. As of this point the attendees were jeanne, JR, +1.561.582.aaaa, Jutta, Sueann, AndrewR, Greg_Pisocky 22:02:50 Zakim has left #au 22:02:55 RRSAgent, bye 22:02:55 I see 5 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2009/01/12-au-actions.rdf : 22:02:55 ACTION: JR to Rework "accessile authoring pracitces" more positively, mention "supports" [1] 22:02:55 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/01/12-au-irc#T21-30-18 22:02:55 ACTION: JS to update the glossary to include the new definition of authoring session. [2] 22:02:55 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/01/12-au-irc#T21-40-36 22:02:55 ACTION: JS to update document glossary with revised definition of authoring tool user interface (Web-based) [3] 22:02:55 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/01/12-au-irc#T21-54-28 22:02:55 ACTION: JS to update the document glossary with the revised definition of Authoring Tool User Interface. [4] 22:02:55 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/01/12-au-irc#T21-59-56 22:02:55 ACTION: JS to update the survey removing the glossary items covered today, add a new item about keeping the non-Web based definition and extend the survey to next week. [5] 22:02:55 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/01/12-au-irc#T22-02-21