15:43:15 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #forms
15:43:15 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/01/07-forms-irc
15:43:21 <John_Boyer> rrsagent, make log public
15:43:40 <John_Boyer> Meeting: Weekly Forms WG Teleconference
15:43:53 <John_Boyer> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2009Jan/0001.html
15:44:18 <John_Boyer> Chair: John
15:44:22 <John_Boyer> Scribe: Leigh
15:44:27 <John_Boyer> Regrets: Erik
15:44:55 <Zakim> HTML_Forms()10:45AM has now started
15:45:01 <wiecha> wiecha has joined #forms
15:45:02 <Zakim> HTML_Forms()10:45AM has ended
15:45:03 <Zakim> Attendees were 
15:45:16 <Zakim> HTML_Forms()10:45AM has now started
15:45:23 <Zakim> + +1.919.254.aaaa
15:45:39 <wellsk> zakim, aaaa is wellsk
15:45:39 <Zakim> +wellsk; got it
15:45:43 <Zakim> +John_Boyer
15:45:48 <Zakim> +[IBM]
15:45:59 <wiecha> zakim, [IBM] is wiecha
15:45:59 <Zakim> +wiecha; got it
15:46:12 <Zakim> +??P5
15:46:14 <John_Boyer> zakim, code?
15:46:14 <Zakim> the conference code is 36767 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), John_Boyer
15:46:31 <prb> zakim, i am paul
15:46:31 <Zakim> sorry, prb, I do not see a party named 'paul'
15:47:12 <klotz> klotz has joined #forms
15:47:30 <John_Boyer> John_Boyer has changed the topic to: Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2009Jan/0001.html
15:47:41 <John_Boyer> zakim, who is here?
15:47:41 <Zakim> On the phone I see wellsk, John_Boyer, wiecha, ??P5
15:47:43 <Zakim> On IRC I see klotz, wiecha, RRSAgent, Zakim, John_Boyer, wellsk, prb, Steven, nick, trackbot
15:48:19 <prb> zakim, i am ??P5
15:48:19 <Zakim> +prb; got it
15:48:38 <Zakim> +Leigh_Klotz
15:48:47 <nick> nick has joined #forms
15:49:13 <nick> zakim, code?
15:49:13 <Zakim> the conference code is 36767 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), nick
15:49:20 <John_Boyer> scribenick: klotz
15:49:49 <Zakim> +Nick_van_den_Bleeken
15:49:57 <nick> zakim, who is here?
15:49:57 <Zakim> On the phone I see wellsk, John_Boyer, wiecha, prb, Leigh_Klotz, Nick_van_den_Bleeken
15:49:59 <Zakim> On IRC I see nick, klotz, wiecha, RRSAgent, Zakim, John_Boyer, wellsk, prb, Steven, trackbot
15:50:06 <nick> zakim, mute me
15:50:06 <Zakim> Nick_van_den_Bleeken should now be muted
15:50:48 <John_Boyer> zakim, who is here?
15:50:48 <Zakim> On the phone I see wellsk, John_Boyer, wiecha, prb, Leigh_Klotz, Nick_van_den_Bleeken (muted)
15:50:50 <Zakim> On IRC I see nick, klotz, wiecha, RRSAgent, Zakim, John_Boyer, wellsk, prb, Steven, trackbot
15:51:39 <Steven> zakim, dial steven-617
15:51:39 <Zakim> ok, Steven; the call is being made
15:51:41 <Zakim> +Steven
15:52:20 <nick> I'm on vacation the 21st
15:52:39 <John_Boyer> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2009Jan/0001.html
15:55:55 <unl> unl has joined #forms
15:56:49 <unl> zakim, code?
15:56:49 <Zakim> the conference code is 36767 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), unl
15:57:36 <nick> I'll make the action item list tomorrow
15:58:51 <Zakim> + +1.307.544.aabb
15:59:26 <unl> zakim, +1.307.544.aabb is me
15:59:26 <Zakim> +unl; got it
15:59:36 <unl> zakim, mute me
15:59:36 <Zakim> unl should now be muted
16:00:40 <klotz> ACTION: John Boyer to review/publish EMC implementation report http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-forms/2008Dec/0020.html
16:00:40 <trackbot> Sorry, amibiguous username (more than one match) - John
16:00:40 <trackbot> Try using a different identifier, such as family name or username (eg. jkugelma, jboyer)
16:01:33 <klotz> ACTION: Steven Pemberton to invite EMC to join Forms WG.
16:01:33 <trackbot> Created ACTION-503 - Pemberton to invite EMC to join Forms WG. [on Steven Pemberton - due 2009-01-14].
16:05:13 <klotz> ACTION: Keith Wells to examine Firefox XPI, and EMC implementation reports and find out which test cases are not covered by both tests.
16:05:13 <trackbot> Created ACTION-504 - Wells to examine Firefox XPI, and EMC implementation reports and find out which test cases are not covered by both tests. [on Keith Wells - due 2009-01-14].
16:08:08 <klotz> ACTION: Keith Wells to confirm power() function in Firefox and request its implementation if necessary.
16:08:08 <trackbot> Created ACTION-505 - Wells to confirm power() function in Firefox and request its implementation if necessary. [on Keith Wells - due 2009-01-14].
16:18:36 <John_Boyer> zakim, who is here?
16:18:36 <Zakim> On the phone I see wellsk, John_Boyer, wiecha, prb, Leigh_Klotz, Nick_van_den_Bleeken (muted), Steven, unl (muted)
16:18:36 <Steven> nick?
16:18:38 <nick> zakkim, unmute me
16:18:38 <Zakim> On IRC I see unl, nick, klotz, wiecha, RRSAgent, Zakim, John_Boyer, wellsk, prb, Steven, trackbot
16:18:44 <Steven> ack nick
16:18:45 <nick> zakim, unmute me
16:18:47 <Zakim> Nick_van_den_Bleeken was not muted, nick
16:19:19 <nick> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/specs/XForms1.2/modules/model/bind/index-all.html
16:19:28 <nick> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/specs/XForms1.2/modules/model/bind/index-all.html#N65990
16:22:10 <nick> <bind nodeset="//total">   <mip name="readonly" value="true()" type="xs:boolean" cascade="true" combine-cascade="$local-value or $cascaded-value"/> </ bind> 
16:29:24 <unl> wouldn't it be easier to just have a cascade attribute, which specifies an 'and' or an 'or' combinator?
16:30:48 <wiecha> i don't recall whether we decided to bite off custom mips for this iteration of the bind module?
16:41:54 <wiecha> i would prefer to keep this module at the level of current, 1.1, function
16:42:11 <wiecha> do we need to talk about cascade at all then?
16:43:43 <wiecha> separating def and use would be great
16:46:11 <klotz> Minutes so far at http://xformstest.org/2009-01-07.txt
16:46:45 <Zakim> -Leigh_Klotz
16:46:59 <John_Boyer> scribe: Charlie
16:47:00 <wiecha> Scribe: wiecha
16:47:01 <nick>  <mip name="my:readonly" value="true()" type="xs:boolean" cascade="true" combine-cascade="$local-value or $cascaded-value"/> 
16:47:06 <John_Boyer> scribenick: wiecha
16:47:17 <wiecha> scribe: Charlie
16:47:19 <nick> <bind nodeset="//total" my:readonly="true()"> 
16:48:12 <wiecha> John: second issue is child elements representing MIPs was desired to get around context "hack", cleaner syntax
16:48:27 <wiecha> John: not convinced we need this for 1.2 
16:48:39 <John_Boyer> <bind nodeset="sum">
16:48:51 <John_Boyer> <bind context=".." calculate="a+b" />
16:48:53 <John_Boyer> </bind>
16:49:45 <John_Boyer> initial inscope eval context is "sum" node
16:49:47 <wiecha> John: intent is for the sum to be attached to the initial evaluation context, e.g. sum
16:49:59 <John_Boyer> inscope eval context is parent of sum due to context="..
16:50:00 <John_Boyer> "
16:50:29 <John_Boyer> calculate evaluates in inscope eval context (parent of sum), but result goes to initial inscope eval context (sum)
16:51:11 <wiecha> Nick: that's how it's now specified in the bind module
16:51:23 <John_Boyer> <bind nodeset="sum">
16:51:34 <John_Boyer> <calculate context=".." value="a+b" />
16:51:36 <John_Boyer> </bind>
16:51:52 <John_Boyer> cleaner syntax because calculate child elem not expected to have a nodeset attr
16:52:03 <John_Boyer> <bind nodeset="sum">
16:52:18 <John_Boyer> <mip name="calculate" context=".." value="a+b"/>
16:52:20 <John_Boyer> </bind>
16:53:29 <wiecha> John: so we already in essence can do this using nested binds rather than introducing the mip element
16:53:30 <wiecha> +1
16:53:40 <unl> +1
16:53:44 <wiecha> to holding off
16:53:47 <wiecha> on custom mips
16:53:53 <prb> +1 to waiting
16:53:55 <Steven> +1
16:53:57 <unl> custom mips is for later ;-)
16:53:59 <Steven> Less is more :-p
16:54:04 <wiecha> sooner is more
16:54:46 <wiecha> John: would need new events to signal custom MIP changes too
16:54:57 <wiecha> John: all is good stuff but feels like future features
16:55:28 <wiecha> Nick: downside is that the bind module doesn't add much function then, just says the MIPs are pre-existing
16:56:00 <wiecha> John: oh, so the other problem is that we have a bind module that creates a nodeset but bind module itself can't talk about particular MIPs since they're elsewhere in other modules
16:56:13 <wiecha> John: that just makes a smaller module, which should be ok
16:56:27 <wiecha> Nick: if ok, then I'll remove it again
16:56:43 <wiecha> John: then we should adjust the wiki to conform to doing custom MIPs later
16:57:04 <wiecha> John: we originally did this to have cleaner syntax for context attr
16:57:26 <wiecha> John: so in each of the relevant, readonly, etc modules, they need to add particular attributes to the bind element
16:57:33 <wiecha> John: and say in prose how that MIP behaves
16:58:02 <wiecha> Nick: then when we do the custom MIPs formally, the existing ones could be recast in that formalism
16:58:28 <wiecha> he;'s talking about the future version
16:58:32 <Zakim> -unl
16:59:14 <Zakim> +unl
16:59:23 <unl> zakim, mute me
16:59:23 <Zakim> unl should now be muted
17:00:46 <wiecha> John:  bind module will talk about MIPs but not define how they are created...but can point to the other modules
17:01:06 <wiecha> John: and bind can talk generically about how those other modules will add attributes to bind itself
17:02:07 <wiecha> John: bind module sets up bind site referenced from controls
17:02:49 <wiecha> Nick: I'll adjust the wiki too
17:03:03 <nick> zakim, mute me
17:03:04 <Zakim> Nick_van_den_Bleeken should now be muted
17:03:30 <wiecha> Topic: label and message
17:03:49 <wiecha> s/and/in
17:03:55 <wiecha> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2008Dec/0029.html
17:04:29 <wiecha> John: don't have a way to control the caption of the action bar
17:04:48 <wiecha> John: suggestion is to allow label element as child of message
17:05:02 <wiecha> John: behaving a bit more like a group element
17:05:20 <wiecha> John: have internal content, but if first child element is <label> then user agent could make use of this
17:05:59 <wiecha> does in fact sound nice
17:06:05 <Steven> looks ok
17:06:10 <wiecha> are there any potential gotchas???
17:06:48 <wiecha> John: if message is ephemeral there would be no caption bar...so perhaps label would also be displayed in the msg itself
17:07:52 <wiecha> Paul: also not required that ephemeral be a small msg, so it could also have a caption
17:08:18 <wiecha> John: however the user agent chooses to show the msg, the label would be available
17:08:36 <wiecha> John: e.g. for inline display as well as popup
17:09:11 <wiecha> John: any objection to adding label as child of msg for xforms 1.2?
17:09:19 <Zakim> -Steven
17:09:48 <wiecha> John: who has msg module :}
17:10:02 <wiecha> Paul: think that's me
17:10:23 <wiecha> Paul: though likely not immediately
17:10:51 <wiecha> Paul: think Mark has done some of this already
17:11:02 <wiecha> Resolution: add <label> as child of <message> in XForms 1.2
17:11:23 <wiecha> ACTION: paul to add <label> as child of <message> in XForms 1.2
17:11:23 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - paul
17:12:04 <Zakim> -Nick_van_den_Bleeken
17:12:06 <Zakim> -wellsk
17:12:09 <Zakim> -John_Boyer
17:12:10 <Zakim> -unl
17:12:10 <Zakim> -wiecha
17:12:14 <Zakim> -prb
17:12:15 <Zakim> HTML_Forms()10:45AM has ended
17:12:16 <Zakim> Attendees were +1.919.254.aaaa, wellsk, John_Boyer, wiecha, prb, Leigh_Klotz, Nick_van_den_Bleeken, Steven, unl
17:12:22 <John_Boyer> rrsagent, make minutes
17:12:22 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/01/07-forms-minutes.html John_Boyer
17:12:30 <John_Boyer> rrsagent, bye
17:12:30 <RRSAgent> I see 5 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2009/01/07-forms-actions.rdf :
17:12:30 <RRSAgent> ACTION: John Boyer to review/publish EMC implementation report http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-forms/2008Dec/0020.html [1]
17:12:30 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/01/07-forms-irc#T16-00-40
17:12:30 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Steven Pemberton to invite EMC to join Forms WG. [2]
17:12:30 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/01/07-forms-irc#T16-01-33
17:12:30 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Keith Wells to examine Firefox XPI, and EMC implementation reports and find out which test cases are not covered by both tests. [3]
17:12:30 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/01/07-forms-irc#T16-05-13
17:12:30 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Keith Wells to confirm power() function in Firefox and request its implementation if necessary. [4]
17:12:30 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/01/07-forms-irc#T16-08-08
17:12:30 <RRSAgent> ACTION: paul to add <label> as child of <message> in XForms 1.2 [5]
17:12:30 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/01/07-forms-irc#T17-11-23