15:47:46 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #badtf
15:47:46 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/01/07-badtf-irc
15:47:52 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #badtf
15:47:59 <shadi> zakim this will be bad
15:48:05 <shadi> zakim, this will be bad
15:48:05 <Zakim> ok, shadi; I see WAI_EOWG(BAD TF)11:00AM scheduled to start in 12 minutes
15:48:14 <shadi> meeting: BAD TF
15:48:18 <shadi> chair: Shadi
15:53:03 <shadi> agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-eo-badtf/2009Jan/0005.html
15:53:14 <shadi> agenda+ Finalized after pages with demo navigation
15:53:22 <shadi> agenda+ Remaining action items to be completed
15:53:33 <shadi> agenda+ Next meetings
15:54:38 <eric_> eric_ has joined #badtf
15:55:08 <eric> eric has joined #badtf
15:57:20 <Michael> Michael has joined #badtf
15:57:35 <Zakim> WAI_EOWG(BAD TF)11:00AM has now started
15:57:41 <Tom> Tom has joined #badtf
15:57:42 <Zakim> +Shadi
15:58:26 <Zakim> + +1.714.968.aaaa
15:58:39 <shadi> zakim, aaaa is Tom
15:58:39 <Zakim> +Tom; got it
15:59:42 <Zakim> + +43.650.935.aabb
15:59:51 <Zakim> +??P13
15:59:55 <Michael> zakim, aabb is michael
15:59:55 <Zakim> +michael; got it
16:00:38 <shadi> zakim, ? is Eric
16:00:38 <Zakim> +Eric; got it
16:01:34 <shadi> scribe: Eric
16:02:20 <shadi> zakim, take up agendum 1
16:02:20 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Finalized after pages with demo navigation" taken up [from shadi]
16:02:35 <shadi> http://ericeggert.net/badtf/index/
16:02:45 <Zakim> + +03130239aacc
16:03:03 <shadi> aacc, is Wilco
16:03:12 <eric> Shadi: We got a new year’s present just before the turn: Eric put together the before and after pages.
16:03:13 <shadi> zakim, aacc is Wilco
16:03:13 <Zakim> +Wilco; got it
16:03:41 <eric> Shadi: the after pages and the navigation
16:04:46 <eric> Shadi: Duplicate body element on some pages, which have to be fixed.
16:05:17 <eric> Shadi: I will show it to the EO WG, to get some feedback.
16:05:27 <eric> Shadi: Any comments?
16:06:10 <eric> Michael: I’ve put together a list of issues, it’s a relative long list, probably we don't want to discuss this here but in the list.
16:06:23 <eric> Shadi: Can you give us more infos?
16:06:57 <eric> Michael: Line-heights for paragraphs, captions, consistency, survey formatting…
16:07:08 <Tom> q+
16:07:14 <eric> Michael: Margins and padding improvements and all this stuff.
16:07:33 <Wilco> Wilco has joined #badtf
16:07:49 <eric> Shadi: We could fix them in our future work for WAI-AGE.
16:07:50 <shadi> ack tom
16:08:32 <eric> Tom: Additional question: Do we want to identify those issues even though they are not specifically WCAG2.
16:08:35 <shadi> http://www.w3.org/WAI/WAI-AGE/comparative.html
16:08:52 <Michael> q+
16:09:07 <eric> Shadi: Some things do map to WCAG2, most do map to the advisory techniques.
16:09:10 <shadi> ack m
16:09:53 <eric> action: Michael to send an email about the issues.
16:10:25 <Michael> zakim, mute me
16:10:25 <Zakim> michael should now be muted
16:11:21 <Michael> zakim, unmute me
16:11:21 <Zakim> michael should no longer be muted
16:12:00 <Michael> zakim, mute me
16:12:00 <Zakim> michael should now be muted
16:14:52 <Michael> zakim, unmute me
16:14:52 <Zakim> michael should no longer be muted
16:15:12 <eric> Shadi: Are there any bigger issues worth discussing now?
16:16:00 <eric> Michael: There is a gerneral question here. At first, the layout is not very state of the art. Should we keep or change it?
16:16:24 <eric> Shadi: A complete new design?
16:17:12 <eric> Michael: No, only the main area of content. On the news pages, boxes are not aligned very well, the size of the headers, the right column teasers and tables.
16:18:20 <eric> Michael: The images in the teasers is just too big. The caption and the text don't look like they belong together.
16:18:57 <eric> Wilco: I can see his point, it’s not the greatest layout, but is it the point of what we’re doing here?
16:18:58 <eric> qü
16:18:59 <eric> q+
16:19:12 <Michael> q+
16:19:25 <eric> Shadi: We want to show, that those websites don't need to be dull and ugly.
16:19:43 <eric> Shadi: How much time are we willing to spend on this?
16:19:47 <shadi> ack e
16:21:26 <Michael> ack m
16:21:26 <shadi> ack m
16:21:55 <eric> Eric: We have to redesign the before pages, too, if we redesign the after pages, although it is not state of the art anymore.
16:22:30 <Tom> q+
16:22:46 <eric> Michael: I don't want to redesign the site, just some smaller issues which would make the website look more professional.
16:24:24 <shadi> ack t
16:24:39 <eric> Shadi: You may send tweaks and fixes to the list. Those are important points, but it's a lot of effort to get these things done.
16:25:10 <eric> Tom: I like the idea to update it, but someone have to do it.
16:26:31 <eric> Shadi: Thats the issue, but a redesign won't happen anytime soon. We can add those thoughts to a wishlist. We all need to have the commitment for that. 
16:26:54 <Zakim> +??P43
16:27:59 <Zakim> -Wilco
16:28:05 <eric> Shadi: Eric made the code reusable for other stylesheets, so we could provide one. It may be not the modernest design, but we can show that it is accessible.
16:28:24 <shadi> zakim, ? is really Wilco
16:28:24 <Zakim> +Wilco; got it
16:28:58 <Michael> zakim, mute me
16:28:58 <Zakim> michael should now be muted
16:29:18 <eric> Shadi: Let's discuss that next week when we know all issues.
16:29:32 <eric> Shadi: Any more comments?
16:30:49 <eric> Shadi: Shall we bring it into the WAI-AGE and EO? We will present our work and see what feedback they have.
16:31:00 <eric> Tom: Yes, we should do that.
16:31:30 <shadi> zakim, take up agendum 2
16:31:30 <Zakim> agendum 2. "Remaining action items to be completed" taken up [from shadi]
16:31:59 <shadi> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-eo-badtf/2008Dec/0015
16:33:06 <eric> Shadi: Maik works on the WAI-AGE updates. Michaels comments will flow into that as well.
16:33:15 <shadi> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-age/2008OctDec/0025
16:34:31 <eric> Shadi: There are some issues I put together back in October, please have a look into that.
16:35:18 <eric> Shadi: WCAG2 evaluation…
16:35:19 <Zakim> -Wilco
16:35:46 <eric> Tom: I will have some time soon.
16:37:08 <eric> Shadi: Survey page: That's Liams task, so Michael can save his time on issues there.
16:37:52 <Zakim> + +31.30.239.aadd
16:38:04 <shadi> zakim, aadd is Wilco
16:38:04 <Zakim> +Wilco; got it
16:38:41 <eric> Shadi: Wilco, are you picking up the in-between pages from Jan Sjoerd?
16:39:03 <shadi> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-eo-badtf/2008Dec/
16:39:19 <shadi> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-eo-badtf/2008Dec/0018.html
16:39:22 <Tom> q+
16:39:30 <eric> Wilco: Yes, I will do that, are there any known issues. I've just had a look into it.
16:39:36 <shadi> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-eo-badtf/2008Dec/0015
16:40:02 <eric> Shadi: There are some e-mail comments in the list.
16:40:05 <shadi> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-eo-badtf/2008Dec/0009.html
16:40:30 <shadi> http://www.wienfluss.net/BAD/inbetween/inbetween_after.html
16:40:58 <shadi> ack t
16:41:47 <eric> Tom: The important part for the in-between pages is the incorporation of the WCAG2 issues.
16:42:13 <eric> Shadi: This doesn't mean the content, Tom will do that.
16:42:33 <eric> Shadi: Wilco's task is to do the javascript and so on.
16:42:52 <Michael> zakim, unmute me
16:42:52 <Zakim> michael should no longer be muted
16:43:03 <eric> Wilco: I'll have a look into that and will coordinate with Tom.
16:43:05 <Michael> zakim, mute me
16:43:05 <Zakim> michael should now be muted
16:44:31 <eric> Shadi: Next week I want to look into those visual issues and the in-between pages.
16:44:57 <shadi> zakim, take up agendum 3
16:44:57 <Zakim> agendum 3. "Next meetings" taken up [from shadi]
16:45:05 <eric> Shadi: Further comments?
16:45:11 <Michael> zakim, unmute me
16:45:11 <Zakim> michael should no longer be muted
16:45:58 <eric> Shadi: Next meeting next week and then after two weeks?
16:46:27 <Zakim> -Tom
16:46:42 <Zakim> -Eric
16:46:49 <Zakim> -michael
16:47:19 <Zakim> -Shadi
16:47:21 <Zakim> -Wilco
16:47:21 <Zakim> WAI_EOWG(BAD TF)11:00AM has ended
16:47:22 <Zakim> Attendees were Shadi, +1.714.968.aaaa, Tom, +43.650.935.aabb, michael, Eric, +03130239aacc, Wilco, +31.30.239.aadd
16:47:27 <Wilco> Wilco has left #badtf
16:47:36 <shadi> rrsagent, make logs world
16:47:42 <shadi> rrsagent, make minutes
16:47:42 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/01/07-badtf-minutes.html shadi
16:47:44 <shadi> rrsagent, make logs world
16:47:47 <shadi> rrsagent, bye
16:47:47 <RRSAgent> I see 1 open action item saved in http://www.w3.org/2009/01/07-badtf-actions.rdf :
16:47:47 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Michael to send an email about the issues. [1]
16:47:48 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/01/07-badtf-irc#T16-09-53