IRC log of svg on 2009-01-05

Timestamps are in UTC.

19:28:22 [RRSAgent]: RRSAgent has joined #svg
19:28:22 [RRSAgent]: logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/01/05-svg-irc
19:28:24 [trackbot]: RRSAgent, make logs public
19:28:26 [trackbot]: Zakim, this will be GA_SVGWG
19:28:26 [Zakim]: ok, trackbot; I see GA_SVGWG()2:30PM scheduled to start in 2 minutes
19:28:27 [trackbot]: Meeting: SVG Working Group Teleconference
19:28:27 [trackbot]: Date: 05 January 2009
19:28:57 [Zakim]: GA_SVGWG()2:30PM has now started
19:29:04 [Zakim]: +[IPcaller]
19:29:18 [Zakim]: +Shepazu
19:30:11 [ed__]: Zakim, [IPcaller] is me
19:30:14 [Zakim]: +ed__; got it
19:30:52 [Zakim]: +??P7
19:31:39 [shepazu]: Zakim, ??P7 is jwatt
19:31:39 [Zakim]: +jwatt; got it
19:31:50 [Zakim]: +??P8
19:31:53 [heycam]: Zakim, ??P8 is me
19:31:53 [Zakim]: +heycam; got it
19:32:02 [jwatt]: jwatt has joined #svg
19:34:27 [heycam]: Chair: Cameron
19:34:38 [ed__]: scribe: erik
19:34:42 [ed__]: scribeNick: ed__
19:34:45 [heycam]: Agenda: http://www.w3.org/mid/20090105045954.GB9067@arc.mcc.id.au
19:35:19 [ed__]: Topic: ProgressEvents draft
19:35:28 [heycam]: http://www.w3.org/mid/op.um15r1xnwxe0ny@widsithpro.lan
19:35:54 [ed__]: CMC: charles send us a reminder for us to review it
19:36:24 [Zakim]: -jwatt
19:36:44 [ed__]: DS: we did have suggestions for that spec, right?
19:36:54 [ed__]: ED: yes, and those have been incorporated AFAIK
19:37:01 [ed__]: DS: shall we do a review of it?
19:37:16 [ed__]: CMC: sounds like a good idea to give it a quick readthrough
19:37:32 [ed__]: DS: noting that our changes were taken in and so on
19:38:44 [ed__]: ...who wants to do the reviewer?
19:39:02 [Zakim]: +[IPcaller]
19:39:23 [ed__]: s/reviewer/review/
19:39:56 [shepazu]: Zakim, [IPcaller] is jwatt
19:39:56 [Zakim]: +jwatt; got it
19:40:20 [ed__]: ACTION: ed to review the progressevents spec (http://www.w3.org/mid/op.um15r1xnwxe0ny@widsithpro.lan) and send comments to public-svg-wg
19:40:20 [trackbot]: Created ACTION-2388 - Review the progressevents spec (http://www.w3.org/mid/op.um15r1xnwxe0ny@widsithpro.lan) and send comments to public-svg-wg [on Erik Dahlström - due 2009-01-12].
19:40:29 [ed__]: ACTION: DS to review the progressevents spec (http://www.w3.org/mid/op.um15r1xnwxe0ny@widsithpro.lan) and send comments to public-svg-wg
19:40:29 [trackbot]: Created ACTION-2389 - Review the progressevents spec (http://www.w3.org/mid/op.um15r1xnwxe0ny@widsithpro.lan) and send comments to public-svg-wg [on Doug Schepers - due 2009-01-12].
19:44:15 [ed__]: Topic: ISSUE-2194
19:44:20 [ed__]: ISSUE-2194?
19:44:20 [trackbot]: ISSUE-2194 -- Syntax of some list-type attributes in SVG Tiny 1.2 incompatible with those in SVG 1.1 -- RAISED
19:44:20 [trackbot]: http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2194
19:45:23 [ed__]: CMC: someone noted on svgdevelopers that the glyphname, g1 and g2 attributes took semicolon-separated lists in 1.2T, but commawhitespace-separated lists in 1.1
19:45:40 [ed__]: DS: we should look at the cvs logs
19:45:58 [ed__]: CMC: may have been me doing list-of-<T> changes
19:46:28 [ed__]: DS: I like the standard solution comma-whitespace separated lists
19:46:53 [ed__]: CMC: i think we found that implementations accepted both syntaxes anyway
19:47:26 [ed__]: DS: e.g in viewBox we only allow space-separation, but we should allow commas there...trips people up
19:47:34 [ed__]: ...another one is stroke-dasharray
19:47:38 [ed__]: ...only allows spaces
19:47:55 [ed__]: ...ASV allowes spaces, commas or both
19:48:51 [ed__]: CMC: the only place where you might want to disallow commas are values that are strings, where a comma can be part of the value
19:49:11 [ed__]: DS: right, so we should make that the exception
19:49:20 [ed__]: CMC: we should errata this particular one
19:50:22 [ed__]: DS: I think we might have an issue for core regarding this anyway
19:50:52 [ed__]: CMC: any objections to adding an errata for 1.2T to align with 1.1?
19:51:04 [ed__]: (none heard)
19:51:26 [heycam]: trackbot, search issues for list
19:51:26 [trackbot]: Sorry, heycam, I don't understand 'trackbot, search issues for list'. Please refer to http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc for help
19:51:33 [shepazu]: http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2135
19:52:11 [ed__]: DS: i don't find a corresponding issue to ACTION-2135... I'll raise one now
19:53:33 [ed__]: CMC: not everything is setup for 1.2T errata yet
19:54:35 [heycam]: http://www.w3.org/TR/SVG11/fonts.html#HKernElementG1Attribute
19:55:19 [ed__]: JW: maybe have two erratas, one for 1.2T to allow comma-separation, and one for 1.1 that allows whitespace as the separator so that the syntax is fully aligned for glyphname, g1 and g2
19:55:31 [ed__]: DS: agreed
19:56:32 [ed__]: ...we could also address this later (in core2) instead of issuing an errata for 1.2T
19:57:01 [ed__]: ...ultimately what we want is to unify the syntaxes
19:57:57 [ed__]: ACTION: CMC to create an errata for 1.2T with the first item being the comma-separation of glyphname, g1, g2
19:57:57 [trackbot]: Sorry, couldn't find user - CMC
19:58:05 [ed__]: ACTION: Cameron to create an errata for 1.2T with the first item being the comma-separation of glyphname, g1, g2
19:58:05 [trackbot]: Created ACTION-2390 - Create an errata for 1.2T with the first item being the comma-separation of glyphname, g1, g2 [on Cameron McCormack - due 2009-01-12].
19:58:07 [shepazu]: http://www.w3.org/2008/12/REC-SVGTiny12-20081222-errata.html
19:59:08 [ed__]: Topic: SVG 1.1 errata
19:59:38 [heycam]: http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/errata/errata.xml
19:59:50 [ed__]: CMC: looking at the errata file, there are only a few left open as drafts
20:00:30 [ed__]: ...JW have you had a chance to look at the zoomevent ones?
20:00:35 [ed__]: JW: not yet
20:01:06 [shepazu]: http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/users/34802
20:04:42 [heycam]: http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/errata/errata.xml#reword-f5-tangents
20:05:38 [ed__]: ACTION-2362
20:05:41 [ed__]: ACTION-2362?
20:05:41 [trackbot]: ACTION-2362 -- Erik Dahlström to backport the zero length path wording from 1.2T to this "Reword F.5 Tangents" erratum -- due 2008-12-04 -- OPEN
20:05:41 [trackbot]: http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2362
20:05:59 [shepazu]: ISSUE-2195
20:06:05 [ed__]: trackbot, close ACTION-2377
20:06:05 [trackbot]: ACTION-2377 Announce the xmas break closed
20:08:09 [heycam]: http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/errata/errata.xml#bzwidth
20:08:32 [ed__]: CMC: DS did you have an action related to taht?
20:09:25 [shepazu]: http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/users/38635
20:09:36 [heycam]: http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2370
20:10:12 [shepazu]: http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2368
20:11:38 [heycam]: http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/errata/errata.xml#currenttranslate-currentscale-nested-svg
20:12:04 [ed__]: CMC: missing the suggested text there
20:12:14 [ed__]: DS: ok, will get to that one
20:12:29 [ed__]: CMC: ok, all assigned then...we can move on
20:13:21 [ed__]: Topic: clipping and pointer-events
20:13:42 [ed__]: DS: JW have you had a chance to look at that one?
20:13:57 [ed__]: JW: not yet
20:14:45 [ed__]: DS: (explains clipping and pointer-events, if reading minutes please see previous minutes where this was discussed)
20:17:33 [jwatt]: is it just me having problems hearing?
20:18:05 [Zakim]: -Shepazu
20:18:37 [Zakim]: +Shepazu
20:18:38 [ed__]: CMC: the idea is to use the visible* values for clipped parts of the shape...so that if you had a clipped shape with visiblePainted you wouldn't get pointerevents on parts that were clipped away
20:18:46 [Zakim]: -Shepazu
20:18:59 [ed__]: ...afterwards there were some comments on the www-svg list about this, from thomas deweese
20:19:07 [Zakim]: +Doug_Schepers
20:19:11 [shepazu]: Zakim, call shepazu
20:19:11 [Zakim]: ok, shepazu; the call is being made
20:19:13 [Zakim]: +Shepazu
20:19:54 [Zakim]: -Shepazu
20:20:11 [heycam]: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2008Nov/0064.html
20:21:07 [ed__]: DS: a brief summary is that he's afraid that it may make conforming content nonconforming
20:21:20 [ed__]: ...cases that use clippath sort of like a fake window
20:22:01 [ed__]: CMC: right, for something like a scrolling window...without knowing what the content is exactly
20:22:43 [ed__]: ...so you wouldn't be able to control that the pointer-events couldn't be captured on the clipped out path, because the content inside that ou don't control might use pointer-events=fill
20:23:06 [ed__]: ...especially since that's the suggested way of doing pointer-events on invisible rects
20:23:25 [ed__]: ...behaviour would change for those cases
20:23:50 [ed__]: ...i think what thomas wants is a separate attribute/prperty to control events wrt clipping
20:24:51 [jwatt]: how about I read through the thread and reply with my thoughts on the list?
20:25:16 [ed__]: CMC: yes, your input would be helpful
20:25:41 [ed__]: Topic: testsuite infrastructure
20:26:28 [heycam]: ED: (talks about his work in removing svggen/, he has it working locally)
20:26:58 [heycam]: ED: there's some platform-specific code in the testsuite scripts, e.g. use of xcopy
20:27:26 [heycam]: ED: i changed it to use cp instead
20:28:00 [heycam]: ED: this is for the 1.2T test suite
20:28:17 [heycam]: ED: I can commit the changes
20:28:39 [heycam]: ED: getting rid of svggen/ doesn't seem to be a major problem
20:28:55 [heycam]: ED: i could commit the changes i've made to the script files, and not do anything about the rest, that way we still have all the generated files like before
20:29:10 [heycam]: ED: this does change all of the harness files, because you change the links from svggen/ to svg/ instead
20:29:21 [heycam]: CM: does that affect revision numbers in the slides?
20:29:36 [heycam]: ED: no, it wouldn't affect it at all
20:29:43 [heycam]: ED: we could regenerate the slides if we want, but we don't have to
20:30:15 [heycam]: ED: i think the slides are generated from svg/ anyway
20:30:39 [heycam]: ED: should i commit the harness files and remove the svg/ directory?
20:30:41 [heycam]: DS: yes
20:31:33 [ed__]: ED: ok, will do that and close the action
20:31:54 [ed__]: CMC: the other listed actions in hte agenda are maybe more for core
20:32:11 [ed__]: DS: yes and no...we should adopt a test-first methodology
20:32:38 [ed__]: ...we should have more tests, and we should solve that by writing tests as we move the spec forward
20:32:48 [ed__]: ...the earlier we have test infrastructure in place the better
20:33:14 [ed__]: Topic: brief SVG in HTML
20:33:54 [ed__]: CMC: I should get the discussion going on the list again
20:34:06 [ed__]: ...have an action to summarize previous discussion
20:35:04 [shepazu]: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2008Dec/0128.html
20:37:29 [heycam]: ED: we can look at that thread and discuss on thursday
20:37:43 [heycam]: CM: also erik pointed out that the HTMLWG's proposal now works with SVG <font> elements
20:46:15 [Zakim]: -jwatt
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20:47:20 [ed__]: Topic: other open issues and actions
20:47:32 [Zakim]: +??P2
20:47:46 [ed__]: CMC: i wanted to make sure we have a procedure for issues
20:48:06 [shepazu]: Zakim, ??P2 is jwatt
20:48:06 [Zakim]: +jwatt; got it
20:48:07 [ed__]: ...we should make use of the raised for issues we should discuss
20:48:18 [ed__]: ...and use open for when we have discussed them
20:48:33 [ed__]: ...in tracker
20:48:46 [ed__]: DS: that leaves out bugzilla that some ppl have been using recently
20:51:12 [ed__]: ...might be possible to have an automated process that raises the issues for the public
20:51:57 [ed__]: DS: bugzilla doubles our work for any given issue
20:52:16 [ed__]: CMC: some other groups only have an html form that people can fill things in
20:52:26 [ed__]: ...for comments...I think it was xquery
20:52:51 [ed__]: JW: what's the problem with opening tracker to the public?
20:53:12 [ed__]: DS: might be extra work for systems staff
20:55:38 [ed__]: JW: i would like a public tracker
20:57:02 [ed__]: DS: if mozilla can provide resources to fix tracker that'd be welcome...
20:57:26 [ed__]: ...I won't close down the public bugzilla until we have a public tracker
20:57:45 [ed__]: CMC: JW you are aware that the tracker is publicly readable, right?
20:58:01 [ed__]: JW: but you can't comment on the issue or raise new issues?
20:58:46 [ed__]: DS: no
20:59:57 [ed__]: ...on the one hand bugzilla isn't well suited for spec stuff
21:00:04 [ed__]: ...and it's duplicating effort
21:00:13 [ed__]: ...we have to keep track of both
21:00:28 [ed__]: ...or actually, the tracker, bugzilla and the mailinglists
21:00:58 [ed__]: ...tracker is good for some things, but is perhaps too simple for some things
21:01:46 [ed__]: ...not sure how difficult it'd be to take features from bugzilla and add them to tracker
21:02:03 [ed__]: JW: is tracker w3c internal?
21:02:09 [ed__]: DS: yes
21:11:05 [Zakim]: -heycam
21:11:07 [Zakim]: -ed__
21:11:17 [ed__]: zakim, bye
21:11:17 [Zakim]: leaving. As of this point the attendees were Shepazu, ed__, jwatt, heycam, Doug_Schepers
21:11:17 [Zakim]: Zakim has left #svg
21:11:27 [ed__]: rrsagent, make minutes
21:11:27 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/01/05-svg-minutes.html ed__
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