15:55:30 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #hcls
15:55:30 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/12/12-hcls-irc
15:55:34 <ericP> Zakim, this is hcls
15:55:34 <Zakim> "hcls" matches SW_HCLS(Term TF)10:00AM, and SW_HCLS()11:00AM, ericP
15:55:58 <ericP> Zakim, this will be hcls
15:55:58 <Zakim> "hcls" matches SW_HCLS(Term TF)10:00AM, and SW_HCLS()11:00AM, ericP
15:56:00 <paolo_ciccarese> paolo_ciccarese has joined #HCLS
15:56:09 <ericP> Zakim, this is SW_HCLS()
15:56:09 <Zakim> ericP, I see SW_HCLS()11:00AM in the schedule but not yet started.  Perhaps you mean "this will be SW_HCLS()".
15:56:17 <ericP> Zakim, this will be SW_HCLS()
15:56:17 <Zakim> ok, ericP; I see SW_HCLS()11:00AM scheduled to start in 4 minutes
15:56:32 <ericP> meeting: SWANSIOC
15:57:58 <Zakim> SW_HCLS()11:00AM has now started
15:58:05 <Zakim> +??P3
15:59:17 <daveruss> daveruss has joined #HCLS
15:59:22 <matthias> matthias has joined #hcls
15:59:55 <Zakim> -??P3
15:59:57 <Zakim> SW_HCLS()11:00AM has ended
15:59:57 <Zakim> Attendees were 
16:00:01 <Zakim> SW_HCLS()11:00AM has now started
16:00:08 <Zakim> +??P8
16:00:22 <Zakim> +??P3
16:00:39 <Zakim> + +1.317.277.aaaa
16:00:41 <matthias> Zakim ??P3 is matthias
16:02:01 <curoli> curoli has joined #hcls
16:02:38 <Zakim> + +0196266aabb
16:02:48 <Zakim> +??P16
16:03:11 <Zakim> + +1.813.396.aacc
16:03:29 <Zakim> -??P16
16:04:09 <Cloud> sorry trying to dial in but mic not working
16:04:16 <Susie> Susie has joined #hcls
16:05:19 <matthias> the call has not really started yet anyways, we are waiting for Tim.
16:05:36 <matthias> (reply to John)
16:05:45 <Zakim> +EricP
16:06:01 <Zakim> -EricP
16:06:23 <Zakim> +EricP
16:06:42 <Zakim> +??P25
16:07:00 <Zakim> +??P24
16:07:18 <ericP> Zakim, who is here?
16:07:19 <Zakim> On the phone I see ??P8, ??P3, +1.317.277.aaaa, +0196266aabb, +1.813.396.aacc, EricP, ??P25, ??P24
16:07:22 <Zakim> On IRC I see Susie, curoli, matthias, david_newman, paolo_ciccarese, RRSAgent, Zakim, Cloud, ericP
16:07:39 <Zakim> + +1.617.818.aadd
16:07:59 <Zakim> +??P28
16:08:18 <ericP> Zakim, +1.617.818.aadd is curoli 
16:08:18 <Zakim> +curoli; got it
16:08:22 <Zakim> - +1.813.396.aacc
16:08:40 <alexpassant> alexpassant has joined #hcls
16:08:58 <alexpassant> hi - I'm on the phone but can only hear you - will try on skype
16:09:01 <Cloud> tim - two items on agenda
16:09:04 <ericP> Zakim, +??P28 is JohnB
16:09:04 <Zakim> sorry, ericP, I do not recognize a party named '+??P28'
16:09:05 <Zakim> -??P24
16:09:09 <Cloud> 1) swansioc related
16:09:14 <Cloud> 2) myexperiment related
16:09:34 <Cloud> 1) most of the interesting work has been done on swansioc - did some work on swan to align to sioc
16:09:45 <Zakim> +??P5
16:09:58 <Cloud> tim: requests report from paolo and alex on the work so far
16:10:07 <ericP> Zakim, ??P5 is alexpassant 
16:10:07 <Zakim> +alexpassant; got it
16:10:27 <ericP> alexpassant: SIOC DL alignment
16:10:37 <Cloud> alex: did the sioc owl-dl alignments, map swan properties to sioc properties, and added some new classes to sioc
16:10:37 <alexpassant> http://rdfs.org/sioc/swan
16:10:49 <Cloud> alex: has the file somewhere on rdfs.org - link pasted
16:10:51 <ericP> -> http://rdfs.org/sioc/swan SWAN SIOC mappings
16:10:55 <alexpassant> http://rdfs.org/sioc/ns
16:11:12 <Zakim> + +0186528aaee
16:11:34 <Cloud> alex: worked mainly on the model and not on the apps, so next step is to look at scf and see how to implement the model
16:11:49 <matthias> q+
16:12:00 <Cloud> tim: proposed that stephane corlosquet will join in the SCF team and tim, axel polleres and john breslin will discuss this on monday
16:12:09 <Jun> Jun has joined #hcls
16:12:31 <Cloud> paolo: have been discussing mainly about tagging, wondering about using own qualifiers
16:13:19 <Cloud> tim: has seen a lot of the detailed work that has come out, and thinks it is very strong, so believes it is worthwhile to do a member submission
16:13:28 <Cloud> ... requests info from ericP on how to do this
16:13:48 <Cloud> ericP: a member submission requires a sig of at least one member of w3c
16:14:08 <Cloud> ... look at the w3c TR page and you will see what a technical report should look like
16:14:26 <Cloud> ... You submit the doc, w3c looks at it and they check from a publication perspective for format, links, etc.
16:14:48 <Cloud> ... then a team comment will be returned saying "you should look at X which is related, or should have done Y"
16:14:59 <mscottm> mscottm has joined #hcls
16:15:11 <Cloud> ... The submission gets a URI, where people can refer to it as a "defacto" standard although it is not actually a standard
16:15:16 <Cloud> ... any questions?
16:15:25 <Cloud> tim: asks if there is a typical timeline for these things?
16:15:27 <ericP> http://www.w3.org/Submission/
16:16:30 <Cloud> ericP: have chance to make changes before published finally
16:16:40 <Cloud> tim: is there a requirement for deployment
16:16:56 <Cloud> ericP: no, can be published before full implementation (hair brained scheme!)
16:17:02 <Zakim> +Scott_Marshall
16:17:11 <Cloud> tim: any other suggestions / objections to submission?
16:17:29 <Cloud> alex: three documents, one about SWAN, one about SWANSIOC and one about SIOCTypes with which SWAN is also aligned
16:17:52 <Cloud> paolo: question, if we send in three documents in the same submission, how do we submit changes in the future
16:18:08 <Cloud> ericP: If you make one submission that is three documents, do you have to do it all over again
16:18:42 <Cloud> ... Best have an index document saying here are the three things that are being submitted, independent pages for each document (SWAN, SWANSIOC, SIOC Types)
16:19:16 <Cloud> ... did this for previous documents (e.g. RDF) for a better user experience
16:20:57 <Cloud> tim: Everyone comfortable with proceeding in this way?
16:21:07 <Cloud> all: no objections
16:21:27 <Cloud> tim: David Newman met with Tim in England last week, and trading slides along with info on v1.2 of the SWAN ontology
16:22:06 <Cloud> http://esw.w3.org/topic/HCLSIG/SWANSIOC/Meetings/2008-12-12_Conference_Call?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=SWAN-myExp-Notes.rtf
16:22:29 <Cloud> tim: quick review shows two types of problems
16:22:49 <Cloud> ... There are parts of our use cases that are similar enough to be overlapping and defined somewhat differently
16:23:09 <Cloud> ... myExp:actor and swan:Agent, and some other examples I missed
16:23:25 <Cloud> ... first instinct is to have a use case first before we go around aligning these things
16:23:34 <Cloud> ... the gaps here are the real physical experiments
16:23:51 <Cloud> ... myExperiment has a notion of an experiment being a container for computational experiments
16:24:08 <Cloud> ... not focussing on things being mixed in a test tube and centrifuging
16:24:20 <Cloud> ... Tim did a sketch on how this gap could be filled
16:24:27 <Cloud> ... http://esw.w3.org/topic/HCLSIG/SWANSIOC/Meetings/2008-12-12_Conference_Call?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=SWAN-myExp-Gap-Filling-Sketch.pdf
16:25:13 <Cloud> ... (the integration issues are in http://esw.w3.org/topic/HCLSIG/SWANSIOC/Meetings/2008-12-12_Conference_Call?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=SWAN-myExp-Notes.rtf)
16:26:14 <Cloud> ... have an Experiment superclass with info on whose it was, conditions, when it was done, what pages in whose lab notebook
16:26:26 <Cloud> ... subclass of Physical and Computational experiments
16:27:20 <Cloud> ... (the orange stuff in http://esw.w3.org/topic/HCLSIG/SWANSIOC/Meetings/2008-12-12_Conference_Call?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=SWAN-myExp-Gap-Filling-Sketch.pdf is what would have to be built, this document is titled "A Rough Sketch of Potential Connections between SWAN and myExperiment Ontologies")
16:27:26 <Cloud> ... this is a strawman
16:27:48 <Cloud> dave: no reason this information couldn't be stored within a myExperiment:Experiment
16:28:14 <Cloud> dave: apart from that, have it all right about how SWAN and myExperiment can interact
16:29:12 <Cloud> tim: In process of getting a project started in Harvard that could be a source of data, a cross-disciplinary thing with the stemcell institute regarding medical expressions about stem cells in blood
16:29:36 <Cloud> ... project would be to do analysis on this but also to create a repository for the analysis using SCF
16:29:51 <Cloud> ... would involve building a repository that would have its own ontology that could fit in with this
16:30:01 <Cloud> ... Anyone else interested in this to test out some ideas?
16:30:17 <matthias> q+
16:30:23 <Cloud> ... There has been work on Experimental ontologies in Lilly?
16:30:36 <Cloud> susie: Yes, in Singapore
16:30:57 <Cloud> tim: Would welcome any involvement from experimental people, e.g. the Lilly Singapore group
16:31:13 <Cloud> matthias: May be interested in Ontology of Biomedical Investigations (OBI)
16:31:20 <matthias> http://obi-ontology.org/
16:31:22 <Cloud> ... may see the usefulness of OBI for this use case
16:32:06 <Cloud> ... International collaboration, Matthias peripherally involved, coordinator is Alan Ruttenberg from Science Commons (or at least one of them)
16:32:47 <Cloud> Susie: OBI would be worth linking into, the Singapore folks found that OBI didn't meet needs at the time but it is better to move towards an open standard approach rather than a proprietary solution
16:32:58 <Cloud> ... Alan leading charge in one part of it
16:33:35 <Cloud> ... Not sure was it Susannah Saranson from EVI (sp.) who was involved
16:33:45 <matthias> People involved in OBI http://obi-ontology.org/page/Consortium
16:33:55 <ericP> scribenick: Cloud 
16:34:26 <Cloud> ... Good quality people involved, Lilly were looking for concepts that weren't in it (Chip?) at the time
16:35:04 <Zakim> -Scott_Marshall
16:35:06 <Cloud> ... Susanna Sansone was that person from EBI
16:35:20 <Cloud> dave: Will look at OBI and see how it ties into SWAN and myExperiment
16:35:52 <Cloud> tim: May be able to adapt what they have, or it may be possible that there are many right generalisations without the detailed stuff that is needed
16:35:59 <Cloud> ... shouldn't be an impediment to this work
16:36:23 <Cloud> ... Tim thanks matthias for making us aware of that
16:36:32 <Cloud> ericP: Has more info on the submissions approach
16:37:17 <Cloud> tim: Take a real project that is relevant and use as an initial test bed
16:38:33 <Cloud> dave: has details of a second possible testbed
16:39:28 <Cloud> tim: experimental notebook idea, like pages is a lab book, but also include readouts automatically
16:39:41 <Cloud> ... also include chemical analysis experimental data
16:40:37 <Cloud> dave: Electronic Lab notebook, generate plans and carry out these plans, all in RDF
16:41:21 <Cloud> ... will dig up a reference
16:41:52 <Cloud> ericP: Should have noticed that since some of this is happening within the interest group, that some of this can be done within the IG as an interest group note
16:42:03 <Cloud> ... downside is that you have to get more buy in from the IG
16:43:11 <Cloud> ... more weight in that it shows consensus from the group, and it is easier to imagine the examination of the subject material, as the IG would be able to assess it more readily than a member submission
16:43:23 <Cloud> ... would have to go to a Thursday HCLS meeting for approval
16:43:24 <david_newman> http://www.combechem.org/tour.php?tourpage=smart.html
16:43:33 <Cloud> ... and it would have more weight
16:43:41 <matthias> need to leave, bye!
16:43:43 <matthias> matthias has left #hcls
16:43:50 <Zakim> -??P3
16:44:50 <Cloud> ... More familiar with IG path, and can have older version links and latest version links, and sets of documents that are conceptually related can make use of version links to help a user navigate - helps a user to better access the relevant versions
16:45:22 <Cloud> tim: asks if ericP recommends IG note as opposed to Member Submission
16:45:37 <Cloud> ... is it the consensus that we should proceed to construct this note
16:45:41 <Cloud> all: yes
16:45:49 <Cloud> ericP: Timeline for this?
16:45:59 <Cloud> tim: maybe February
16:47:45 <Cloud> ... Next meeting on (sorry missed it)
16:48:27 <Cloud> ... Discuss how to connect PhysicalExperiments to data
16:48:38 <Cloud> ... Next meeting on Friday January 2nd at the same time!
16:49:05 <ericP> Zakim, plesae draft minutes
16:49:05 <Zakim> I don't understand 'plesae draft minutes', ericP
16:49:06 <Zakim> - +1.317.277.aaaa
16:49:06 <Zakim> - +0186528aaee
16:49:08 <Zakim> -??P25
16:49:13 <Zakim> -??P8
16:49:16 <ericP> Zakim, please draft minutes
16:49:16 <Zakim> I don't understand 'please draft minutes', ericP
16:49:17 <Zakim> - +0196266aabb
16:49:22 <Zakim> -curoli
16:49:23 <ericP> Zakim, draft minutes
16:49:23 <Zakim> -alexpassant
16:49:23 <Zakim> I don't understand 'draft minutes', ericP
16:49:36 <ericP> RRSagent, please draft minutes
16:49:36 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/12/12-hcls-minutes.html ericP
16:49:44 <ericP> RRSagent, please make log world-visible
16:50:11 <ericP> http://www.w3.org/2008/12/12-hcls-minutes
16:51:01 <Zakim> -EricP
16:51:02 <Zakim> -??P28
16:51:02 <Zakim> SW_HCLS()11:00AM has ended
16:51:03 <Zakim> Attendees were +1.317.277.aaaa, +0196266aabb, +1.813.396.aacc, EricP, curoli, alexpassant, +0186528aaee, Scott_Marshall
19:09:53 <Zakim> Zakim has left #hcls