17:47:58 RRSAgent has joined #owl 17:47:58 logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/12/10-owl-irc 17:48:04 RRSAgent, make log public 17:49:01 clu has joined #owl 17:52:03 bijan has joined #owl 17:52:51 SW_OWL()1:00PM has now started 17:52:58 +??P5 17:53:03 zakim, ??p5 is me 17:53:03 +bijan; got it 17:55:40 Achille has joined #owl 17:56:31 + +1.914.421.aaaa 17:56:54 Zakim, + +1.914.421.aaaa is me 17:56:54 I don't understand '+ +1.914.421.aaaa is me', Achille 17:57:17 zakim, mute me 17:57:17 bijan should now be muted 17:57:19 zakim, aaaa is Achille 17:57:20 +Achille; got it 17:57:26 +??P7 17:57:27 Or a kid :) 17:57:30 sorry 17:57:33 No no! 17:57:36 I like kids 17:57:39 Zakim, mute me 17:57:39 Achille should now be muted 17:57:53 +Sandro 17:58:19 bmotik has joined #owl 17:58:27 baojie has joined #owl 17:58:50 +??P2 17:58:53 Zakim, ??P2 is me 17:58:53 +bmotik; got it 17:58:55 Zakim, mute me 17:58:56 bmotik should now be muted 17:59:49 pfps has joined #owl 18:00:04 +Peter_Patel-Schneider 18:00:19 Scribe pfps 18:00:26 MarkusK_ has joined #owl 18:00:28 + +0494212186aabb 18:00:34 + +1.518.276.aacc 18:00:35 zakim, aabb is me 18:00:36 +clu; got it 18:00:41 zakim, mute me 18:00:41 clu should now be muted 18:00:43 Zakim, aacc is baojie 18:00:43 +baojie; got it 18:00:46 -??P7 18:01:13 ScribeNick: pfps 18:01:15 Christine calls in to give regrets, as there is suddenly no electricity where she is. 18:01:23 +??P7 18:01:26 RRSAgent, make records public 18:01:35 she asks us to postpone discussion of the UFD. 18:01:36 Zakim, this will be owlwg 18:01:36 ok, pfps; I see SW_OWL()1:00PM scheduled to start now 18:01:38 Zhe has joined #owl 18:01:42 msmith has joined #owl 18:02:08 JeffP has joined #owl 18:03:18 zakim, who is on the phone? 18:03:18 I notice SW_OWL()1:00PM has restarted 18:03:19 On the phone I see bijan (muted), Achille (muted), Sandro, bmotik (muted), Peter_Patel-Schneider, clu (muted), baojie, MarkusK_, +1.202.408.aadd 18:03:41 + +1.603.897.aaee 18:03:44 uli has joined #owl 18:03:52 zakim, +1.603.897.aaee is me 18:03:52 +Zhe; got it 18:03:58 zakim, mute me 18:04:01 Zhe should now be muted 18:04:07 topic: agenda amendments 18:04:14 bcuencagrau has joined #owl 18:04:16 PROPOSED: Accept Previous Minutes (3 December) 18:04:22 the minutes looked OK to me 18:04:39 RESOLVED Accept Previous Minutes (3 December) 18:04:46 topic: Action Item Status 18:04:53 +??P11 18:04:59 zakim, ??P11 is me 18:05:00 That has been done 18:05:03 +uli; got it 18:05:04 action-251 done 18:05:05 Zakim, unmute me 18:05:10 bmotik should no longer be muted 18:05:11 action-251? 18:05:11 ACTION-251 -- Boris Motik to update the spec to include rdf:XMLLiteral and fix the annotations as proposed -- due 2008-11-26 -- PENDINGREVIEW 18:05:11 http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/tracker/actions/251 18:05:28 schneid has joined #owl 18:05:30 zkim, mute me 18:05:33 I think that that one was done quite some time ago 18:05:35 zakim, mute me 18:05:35 uli should now be muted 18:05:43 action-251 closed 18:05:43 ACTION-251 Update the spec to include rdf:XMLLiteral and fix the annotations as proposed closed 18:05:45 sandro: any feedback needed 18:05:48 boris: nope 18:05:50 + +0122427aaff 18:05:54 action-254 closed 18:05:54 ACTION-254 Create missing grammars in the documents closed 18:05:57 zakim, aaff is me 18:05:57 +JeffP; got it 18:06:06 action-256 closed 18:06:06 ACTION-256 Set up telecon time poll for rif/owl joint coordination one-time meeting closed 18:06:09 +??P14 18:06:19 zakim, ??P14 is me 18:06:19 +schneid; got it 18:06:22 zakim, mute me 18:06:22 schneid should now be muted 18:06:23 Do we need to discuss it? 18:06:52 RIF meeting discussion is later in the agenda 18:06:56 action-257 closed 18:06:56 ACTION-257 Set up WBS poll for F2F times closed 18:07:12 action-252? 18:07:12 ACTION-252 -- Peter Patel-Schneider to checking progress of XML Schema 1.1 and datetime datatype -- due 2008-12-10 -- OPEN 18:07:12 http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/tracker/actions/252 18:07:32 pfps: I'm waiting for XML Schema WG to get back to us 18:07:41 sandro: Any particular deadline 18:07:56 pfps: The sooner the better, but we need it before end of Last Call 18:07:56 action-250? 18:07:56 ACTION-250 -- Sandro Hawke to send mime-type registrations in to IETF when we do last-call publications -- due 2008-12-10 -- OPEN 18:07:56 http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/tracker/actions/250 18:08:17 http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Round_4#Publicity 18:08:36 Topic: announcing last call 18:08:43 sandro: some has been done 18:08:53 http://clarkparsia.com/weblog/2008/12/03/owl-2-last-call-documents-published/ 18:08:57 zakim, who is on the phone? 18:08:57 On the phone I see bijan (muted), Achille (muted), Sandro, bmotik, Peter_Patel-Schneider, clu (muted), baojie, MarkusK_, msmith, Zhe (muted), uli (muted), JeffP, schneid (muted) 18:08:59 sandro: do some announcement (and add to wiki page) 18:09:26 sandro: going around the "room" 18:09:30 zakim, unmute me 18:09:30 Zhe should no longer be muted 18:09:32 sandro: bijan? 18:09:34 I'm harrasing people 18:09:36 I checked and compared my 'candidates', but Ian had already done them 18:09:44 +??P15 18:09:45 I have put a small notice at semanticweb.org 18:09:47 sandro: achille? 18:09:48 Zakim, ??P15 is me 18:09:48 +bcuencagrau; got it 18:09:54 Zakim, mute me 18:09:54 bcuencagrau should now be muted 18:09:57 pfps: same as uli 18:10:00 i prefer typing 18:10:08 my baby is unhappy 18:10:15 s /semanticweb.org/the main page of semanticweb.org/ 18:10:19 HCLS list? 18:10:28 Yes :( 18:10:30 sandro: I owe a blog post about this 18:10:38 I'll send note in ibm internal mailing lists 18:10:46 sandro: bijan - please put up on HCLS 18:11:05 Oh, we'll be doing internal review here 18:11:06 pfps: same as uli - my suspects have been handled 18:11:07 and in a talk i will give at Bolzen-Bolzano free university next week 18:11:22 I.e., having people inside manchester review all the documents carefully 18:11:27 Zakim, mute me 18:11:27 bmotik should now be muted 18:11:28 sandro: please publicize 18:11:29 I have sent the notice to Oracle's internal list 18:11:38 topic: F2F5 18:11:56 sandro: no decision today (no Alan, no Ian) 18:12:09 sandro: does anyone want to answer the poll? 18:12:16 http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/41712/f2f5date/results 18:12:52 sandro: results are close - lead is Mar 3-4 18:13:00 sandro: probably chairs will decide 18:13:05 topic: LC comments 18:13:11 sandro: none yet 18:13:21 sandro: Ian has a page for coordination 18:13:43 sandro: if there are not too many comments we'll just use this wiki page 18:13:48 q+ 18:13:48 topic: test cases 18:13:54 q+ 18:13:58 dlm has joined #owl 18:14:04 http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Test_Queue 18:14:18 msmith: there are some test cases in proper format 18:14:41 msmith: email asking for people to check them out was just sent 18:14:50 msmith: could be approved next week 18:15:01 q+ to report on test case licensing issues 18:15:14 msmith: results for Pellet and Hermit are included 18:15:29 sandro: plan for gathering test results where others drive? 18:15:41 msmith: still needs to be ironed out 18:16:00 msmith: oracle has some suggestions 18:16:16 + +1.518.276.aagg 18:16:27 ack MarkusK_ 18:16:27 MarkusK_, you wanted to report on test case licensing issues 18:16:31 sandro: Webont had a way of incorporating external results 18:16:35 ack msmith 18:17:24 markus: only issue is that publicly contributed test cases need a release to agree to W3C licensing stuff 18:17:36 sandro: location of test repository? 18:17:53 markus: not determined yet, but any place is OK (in W3C space) 18:18:03 http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/test 18:18:14 sandro: what about the above spot? 18:18:20 markus: looks OK 18:18:41 sounds good 18:18:42 sandro: we can use CVS for upload 18:18:49 What's the license on the suite? 18:18:57 Can one create derived works? 18:19:19 http://www.w3.org/Project/CVSdoc/ 18:19:31 q+ to answer bijan 18:19:32 sandro: documentation at above link 18:19:51 sandro: I need an SSH public key to set up access 18:19:56 yes, I will email you an ssh key 18:20:08 sandro: Markus and Mike to send PK 18:20:10 ack MarkusK_ 18:20:10 MarkusK_, you wanted to answer bijan 18:20:29 zakim, unmute me 18:20:29 bijan should no longer be muted 18:20:31 q+ 18:20:40 markus: derived works are allowed for tests, we'll use a creative commons license 18:20:52 http://www.w3.org/2004/10/27-testcases.html 18:21:02 ack bijan 18:21:04 markus: W3C will control entire test suite 18:21:22 bijan: OK, I was worried about the W3C document liclense, which would not have been suitable 18:21:32 zakim, mute me 18:21:32 bijan should now be muted 18:21:32 My current draft license conditions are: http://km.aifb.uni-karlsruhe.de/projects/owltests/index.php/OWL_Test_Cases:Copyrights 18:21:41 bijan: I want to use the test suite and modify it for other purposes 18:21:54 topic: plans for non-LC documents 18:22:23 a 3-clause BSD License for software development, bugtracking, and other applications that do not require assertions of performance to the public or implied claims of conformance to a W3C Specification. See summary of 3-clause BSD License. 18:22:23 a W3C Test Suite License for an Authoritative W3C Test Suite or when claims of performance with respect to a specification are required. See summary of W3C Test Suite License. 18:22:26 sandro: hard to make decision on REC-track today because no chairs 18:22:35 sandro: status checks 18:22:42 sandro: QRG? 18:23:06 dlm: there are some things that still need to be done, and they will be done 18:23:08 To do list: 18:23:08 * Create inline hyperlinks to Syntax 18:23:08 * Create hyperlinks to Direct Semantics and RDF-Based Semantics once the anchors in those documents are ready 18:23:08 * Complete inline hyperlinks to Primer when the missing ones are ready 18:23:08 * Create inline hyperlinks to New Features and Rationale 18:23:09 * Make a new 2-page print version. 18:23:11 * Design a similar guide for profiles with 1 page print version. 18:23:20 dlm: need tags in other documents 18:23:28 Nope 18:23:28 sandro: go ahead and add tags 18:23:37 We might derive tags from heading 18:23:39 pfps: need to make *sure* no duplicates! 18:23:42 q+ 18:23:52 zakim, unmute me 18:23:52 bijan should no longer be muted 18:23:54 ack bijan 18:24:03 pfps: can use W3C tools to check for dups 18:24:14 zakim, who is on the call? 18:24:14 On the phone I see bijan, Achille (muted), Sandro, bmotik (muted), Peter_Patel-Schneider, clu (muted), baojie, MarkusK_, msmith, Zhe, uli (muted), JeffP, schneid (muted), 18:24:17 ... bcuencagrau (muted), +1.518.276.aagg 18:24:23 bijan: can this be done automatically? 18:24:46 q+ 18:24:51 baojie: most links are there at least in Syntax and ??? 18:24:58 Zakim, unmute me 18:24:58 bmotik should no longer be muted 18:24:58 ack bmotik 18:25:01 baojie: semantics and ??? need more tags 18:25:14 s/???/rdf-based semantics/ 18:25:36 zakim, mute me 18:25:36 bijan should now be muted 18:25:38 bmotik: QRG doesn't reflect last set of changes (annotations) 18:25:43 bmotik: annotation assertions don't seem to have made it into QRG 18:26:01 baojie: which? 18:26:07 q? 18:26:27 Zakim, mute me 18:26:27 bmotik should now be muted 18:26:28 baojie: will check and change as necessary 18:26:51 action: baojie update QRG for annotation assertions 18:26:51 Sorry, couldn't find user - baojie 18:26:55 action: jie update QRG for annotation assertions 18:26:56 Created ACTION-258 - Update QRG for annotation assertions [on Jie Bao - due 2008-12-17]. 18:27:09 q+ 18:27:36 baojie: guide for profiles? 18:27:56 Zakim, unmute me 18:27:56 bmotik should no longer be muted 18:27:56 ack baojie 18:28:14 bmotik: what about reviewing? 18:28:22 I'm generally against proliferation of documents at this stage 18:28:27 sandro: was reviewed for FPWD, needs to be done for next publication 18:28:37 bmotik: I'll review for next publication 18:28:48 Zakim, mute me 18:28:48 bmotik should now be muted 18:28:54 ACTION: bmotik review next version of QRG 18:28:54 Sorry, couldn't find user - bmotik 18:29:07 ACTION: motik review next version of QRG 18:29:07 Created ACTION-259 - Review next version of QRG [on Boris Motik - due 2008-12-17]. 18:29:34 sandro: next publication date for QRG 18:29:39 My user name is bmotik2. However, I'd prefer not taking an action now (because I can't work it off immediately). 18:29:44 q+ 18:29:50 zakim, unmute me 18:29:50 bijan should no longer be muted 18:29:53 sandro: probably wait until end of LC 18:30:23 pfps: I'll adjust the action due date to Feb (if this is not OK, you could just kill the item) 18:30:23 We can add my name to the Review list, and then when we get to next publication date, I'll be happy to take the action 18:30:33 pfps: OK that works 18:30:55 -q 18:31:17 bijan: we can generate PDF using princeXML and get hyperlinks for "free" 18:31:25 ack bijan 18:31:44 bijan: next version of primer will be ready early Jan 2009 18:32:00 bijan: a WD publication in Jan would be fine 18:32:08 dlmcg1 has joined #owl 18:32:23 sandro: princeXML works great - W3C has a real license and can "push the button" 18:32:50 dlm: HTML version is longer than 2 pages - we want PDF to be 2 pages 18:33:05 bijan: why? I have CSS for the compact layout 18:33:09 q? 18:33:31 dlm: I haven't looked at this - let's check it out offline 18:33:40 bijan: we can really make it work 18:33:55 baojie: current document is longer so care is needed 18:34:20 bijan: if content is the same then the 2-page PDF design can be generated automagically using CSS 18:34:33 sandro: may require some "polishing" 18:34:49 sandro: new features and rationale 18:34:54 zakim, who is on the phone? 18:34:54 On the phone I see bijan, Achille (muted), Sandro, bmotik (muted), Peter_Patel-Schneider, clu (muted), baojie, MarkusK_, msmith, Zhe, uli (muted), JeffP, schneid (muted), 18:34:57 ... bcuencagrau (muted), +1.518.276.aagg 18:35:00 q+ 18:35:06 sandro: Christine has had a power failure so she can't be here 18:35:08 I've added a note about my review of the Quick Reference to http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Reviewing; I'm now waiting for chairs to "ping me" 18:35:14 zakim, unmute me 18:35:14 bijan was not muted, bijan 18:35:15 zakim, aagg is dlm 18:35:16 +dlm; got it 18:35:45 bijan: I gave feedback, including demo of appendix, but I have no feedback 18:35:57 bijan: I think that there is some stuff that should be removed 18:36:08 bijan: we should schedule some time for discussion 18:36:24 RRSAgent, pointer? 18:36:24 See http://www.w3.org/2008/12/10-owl-irc#T18-36-24 18:36:29 zakim, mute me 18:36:29 bijan should now be muted 18:36:47 action: sandro make sure chairs know about document review/suggestion points at http://www.w3.org/2008/12/10-owl-irc#T18-36-24 18:36:47 zakim, who is talking? 18:36:47 Created ACTION-260 - Make sure chairs know about document review/suggestion points at http://www.w3.org/2008/12/10-owl-irc#T18-36-24 [on Sandro Hawke - due 2008-12-17]. 18:36:59 pfps, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Sandro (50%), dlm (39%) 18:37:06 zakim, unmute me 18:37:06 bijan should no longer be muted 18:37:40 bijan: still planning to get Primer feature-complete over winter break 18:37:42 bijan: primer will be upgraded by mid-Jan 18:38:40 sandro: next publication? self-standing or with a bunch of other stuff 18:38:45 bijan: arguments either way 18:39:03 sandro: primer alone may entice attention and reviews 18:39:30 bijan: reasonable publication time would be early Jan - to allow time before end of LC 18:39:36 sandro: yes 18:39:41 q? 18:39:41 bijan: I'll give it a shot 18:39:48 ack bijan 18:40:15 sandro: should be able to line up a reviewer nowish - volunteers? 18:40:24 i would 18:40:26 I can do a review of the Primer. 18:40:36 q+ 18:40:38 Zakim, unmute me 18:40:38 bmotik should no longer be muted 18:40:39 zakim, mute me 18:40:40 bijan should now be muted 18:40:41 ack bmotik 18:41:10 good point, Boris 18:41:21 bmotik: IJCAI deadline is early Jan (12?) which knocks out 7-12 18:41:40 me too 18:41:52 sandro: decision should be made on 7 Jan, so reviews need to be done by then 18:41:53 difficult for me 18:42:01 bmotik: review before then would be acceptable 18:42:11 before christmas :( 18:42:21 sandro: when does the primer need to be done? 18:42:26 oi 18:42:30 bmotik: by 1 Jan 18:42:35 Sure 18:42:40 sandro: bijan - does that work? 18:42:42 And I'll am for before xmas for uli 18:42:45 aim 18:42:45 bijan: sure 18:42:54 proposed schedule: bijan done by Jan 1, Uli and Boris reviews by Jan 6, WG publication decision Jan 7. 18:43:01 +1 18:43:07 zakim, unmute me 18:43:07 uli should no longer be muted 18:44:00 uli: I will be moving so I can't promise a review 18:44:11 Understanding the Boris will be travelling on Jan 7, and Uli will be moving and off-line until Jan 8. 18:44:16 uli: by jan 7 (8th is OK) 18:44:27 Could probably get a review from Matthew Horridge 18:44:39 yes 18:44:39 Dunno 18:44:47 pfps: Matthew is not in the WG 18:44:48 zakim, mute me 18:44:48 uli should now be muted 18:44:48 He's author of a document 18:44:55 We canmake hima member pretty easily 18:45:17 ok 18:45:18 Or he can fake uli's email :) 18:45:37 me neither 18:45:40 sandro: can we get Matthew to sign up for a review (and show up on the 7th) 18:46:02 q+ 18:46:09 sandro: repairs section? 18:46:10 ack bijan 18:46:11 zakim, unmute me 18:46:14 bijan was not muted, bijan 18:46:34 bijan: this was to add a section to primer on repairs 18:46:40 +1 to bijan 18:46:45 bijan: I don't find this suitable for the primer 18:47:08 bijan: primer is not dumping spot for things that don't fit elsewhere 18:47:25 bijan: primer is not normative so putting repairs there doesn't gain anything 18:47:30 bmotik: agree 18:47:46 sandro: no one has argued for this 18:47:48 no one arguing in favor of repairs in Primer 18:47:54 (here, today.) 18:47:59 http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/meeting/2008-12-03#Open_items 18:48:08 bmotik: Alan was pushing this 18:48:11 Noep 18:48:23 sandro: Manchester syntax? 18:49:00 pfps: I believe MS is done, modulo any error reports we get 18:49:04 pfps: I think that it is done, and consistent with current state of primary documents 18:49:16 sandro: datarange extension 18:49:16 Same schedule as before 18:49:21 We plan for something by jan 18:49:22 uyes 18:49:34 Yes please 18:49:36 sandro: publication timing? 18:49:47 bijan: wait for next chunk of publications 18:49:48