IRC log of ua on 2008-12-04

Timestamps are in UTC.

18:01:45 [RRSAgent]

RRSAgent has joined #ua

18:01:45 [RRSAgent]

logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/12/04-ua-irc

18:02:06 [AllanJ]

rrsagent, set logs public

18:02:18 [AllanJ]

zakim, this will be wai_u

18:02:19 [Zakim]

ok, AllanJ, I see WAI_UAWG()1:00PM already started

18:02:27 [JR]

zakim, code?

18:02:28 [Zakim]

the conference code is 82941 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), JR

18:02:37 [Zakim]

+??P2

18:02:47 [JR]

zakim, ??P2 is really Jan

18:02:47 [Zakim]

+Jan; got it

18:04:13 [Zakim]

+??P8

18:04:16 [sharper]

zakim, ??P8 is sharper

18:04:16 [Zakim]

+sharper; got it

18:05:01 [AllanJ]

chair: Jim Allan

18:05:35 [sharper]

agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2008OctDec/0061.html

18:05:42 [sharper]

scribe: Harper_Simon

18:05:42 [sharper]

ScribeNick: sharper

18:05:51 [sharper]

agenda+ Regrets, agenda requests, comments?

18:05:51 [sharper]

agenda+ Review Survey Items http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/

18:05:51 [sharper]

agenda+ Review Action Item status http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/tracker/actions/open

18:05:52 [sharper]

agenda+ Brainstorm - who to contact for "request for comments" on next published

18:05:52 [sharper]

draft week of 15 December

18:05:52 [sharper]

agenda+ Freeze document for draft publication.

18:05:54 [sharper]

agenda+ Need 2 volunteer proof readers in preparation of draft.

18:06:08 [sharper]

zakim, save agenda

18:06:14 [Zakim]

ok, sharper, the agenda has been written to http://www.w3.org/2008/12/04-ua-agenda.rdf

18:06:24 [Zakim]

- +1.425.894.aaaa

18:07:07 [Zakim]

+ +1.425.894.aabb

18:08:16 [sharper]

present: Allan_James, Harper_Simon, Ford_Kelly, Richards_Jan

18:08:32 [sharper]

zakim, next item

18:08:32 [Zakim]

agendum 1. "Regrets, agenda requests, comments?" taken up [from sharper]

18:08:38 [sharper]

zakim, next item

18:08:38 [Zakim]

agendum 1 was just opened, sharper

18:08:55 [sharper]

zakim, next item

18:08:55 [Zakim]

agendum 1 was just opened, sharper

18:09:35 [sharper]

zakim, close item 1

18:09:35 [Zakim]

agendum 1, Regrets, agenda requests, comments?, closed

18:09:36 [Zakim]

I see 5 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is

18:09:37 [Zakim]

2. Review Survey Items http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/ [from sharper]

18:11:32 [JR]

http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20081202/results

18:13:50 [sharper]

topic: Discussion of Proposed Rewording of 3.2.2

18:14:05 [sharper]

Discussion of Jan's rewording

18:14:33 [sharper]

Jeanne requested 'accordingly' to be removed

18:14:58 [sharper]

All fine with both changes

18:15:58 [sharper]

AllanJ: Only problem is with 'AA' what do we mean by cascade?

18:17:10 [AllanJ]

Action: Jeanne update draft for 3.2.2 (new 3.1.2) Level A 3.2.2 Rendering Alternatives (Minimum): Provide the user with the global option to set which type of alternative to render by default. If the alternative content has a different height and/or width, then the user agent will reflow the viewport.

18:17:10 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-92 - Update draft for 3.2.2 (new 3.1.2) Level A 3.2.2 Rendering Alternatives (Minimum): Provide the user with the global option to set which type of alternative to render by default. If the alternative content has a different height and/or width, then the user agent will reflow the viewport. [on Jeanne Spellman - due 2008-12-11].

18:18:28 [AllanJ]

Action: Jeanne update draft to include new item 3.2.x (new 3.1.x) Level AA 3.2.x Rendering Alternative (Enhanced): Provide the user with the global option to configure a cascade of types of alternatives to render by default, in case a prefered type is unavailable. If the alternative content has a different height and/or width, then the user agent will reflow the viewport.

18:18:28 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-93 - Update draft to include new item 3.2.x (new 3.1.x) Level AA 3.2.x Rendering Alternative (Enhanced): Provide the user with the global option to configure a cascade of types of alternatives to render by default, in case a prefered type is unavailable. If the alternative content has a different height and/or width, then the user agent will reflow the viewport. [on Jeanne Spellman - due 2008-12-11].

18:18:53 [sharper]

topic: Proposal to reword 2.1.6

18:19:35 [sharper]

AllanJ: from - 2.1.6 Properties: If any of the following properties are supported by the accessibility platform architecture, they must be made available via the architecture:

18:20:11 [sharper]

AllanJ: to - If any of the following properties are supported by the accessibility platform architecture, make the properties available via [or "to"??] the accessibility platform architecture:

18:21:04 [sharper]

AllanJ: Discussion of change from to or via

18:21:58 [AllanJ]

Issue: resolve "to" and

18:21:58 [trackbot]

Created ISSUE-25 - Resolve \"to\" and ; please complete additional details at http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/tracker/issues/25/edit .

18:23:30 [sharper]

JR: Happy to take 'to' although 'via' implys a correct outcome from the API

18:24:24 [sharper]

sharper: is it not up to the AT? how can the user agent enforce this?

18:24:45 [sharper]

All: Agreed to resolve to 'to'.

18:25:49 [AllanJ]

Action: Jeanne to update 2.1.6 to be 2.1.6 Properties: If any of the following properties are supported by the accessibility platform architecture, make the properties available to the accessibility platform architecture:

18:25:49 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-94 - Update 2.1.6 to be 2.1.6 Properties: If any of the following properties are supported by the accessibility platform architecture, make the properties available to the accessibility platform architecture: [on Jeanne Spellman - due 2008-12-11].

18:25:50 [AllanJ]

(a) the bounding dimensions and coordinates of rendered graphical objects

18:25:52 [AllanJ]

(b) font family of text

18:25:53 [AllanJ]

(c) font size of text

18:25:55 [AllanJ]

(d) foreground color of text

18:25:56 [AllanJ]

(e) background color of text

18:25:58 [AllanJ]

(f) change state/value notifications

18:26:10 [sharper]

topic: Proposal to reword 2.1.7

18:26:21 [sharper]

old - 2.1.7 Timely Communication: For APIs implemented to satisfy the requirements of this document, programmatic exchanges proceed in a timely manner (Level AA).

18:26:33 [sharper]

new - Timely Communication: For APIs implemented to satisfy the requirements of this document, ensure that programmatic exchanges proceed in a timely manner (Level AA)

18:27:35 [sharper]

results: 2 accepts, Questions: why AA, Timely is not testable.

18:29:29 [sharper]

Ford_Kelly: Maybe say ' is consistent with other applications which support the application architecture' ? But still not testable.

18:30:16 [sharper]

JR: Timely is common sense - would a regular human notice?

18:30:51 [sharper]

AllanJ: Is that anymore testable than timely.

18:31:30 [sharper]

Ford_Kelly: would change vote to accept (for now) if we gave examples of what we wanted to happen.

18:32:57 [JR]

JR: programmatic exchanges proceed at a rate such that typical users do not perceive a lag

18:33:50 [JR]

JR: programmatic exchanges proceed at a rate such that users do not perceive a delay

18:34:03 [sharper]

All: Discussion around this phrasing

18:34:15 [AllanJ]

Timely Communication: For APIs implemented to satisfy the requirements of this document, ensure that programmatic exchanges proceed at a rate such that users do not perceive a delay

18:34:49 [sharper]

All: Looks good seems cleaner

18:35:17 [sharper]

Ford_Kelly: Let's put it in and await responses.

18:35:23 [sharper]

All: Agreed

18:35:26 [AllanJ]

Action: Jeanne update 2.1.7 to Timely Communication: For APIs implemented to satisfy the requirements of this document, ensure that programmatic exchanges proceed at a rate such that users do not perceive a delay

18:35:27 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-95 - Update 2.1.7 to Timely Communication: For APIs implemented to satisfy the requirements of this document, ensure that programmatic exchanges proceed at a rate such that users do not perceive a delay [on Jeanne Spellman - due 2008-12-11].

18:35:54 [sharper]

Kelly_Ford: extra Item

18:36:18 [sharper]

topic: Discussion around 2.1.3

18:36:20 [JR]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2008OctDec/0065.html

18:36:28 [AllanJ]

Original:

18:36:30 [AllanJ]

2.1.3 Accessible Alternative: If any functionality is not supported by the implemented accessibility platform architecture(s), then a separate accessible

18:36:32 [AllanJ]

alternative for that functionality that is supported by the implemented accessibility platform architecture(s) is provided and a description of the inaccessible

18:36:33 [AllanJ]

functionality appears in the conformance claim.

18:36:39 [AllanJ]

Proposed:

18:36:41 [AllanJ]

2.1.3 Accessible Alternative: If functionality exists that is not supported by the accessibility architecture(s) used by the user agent, alternative functionality that does support the accessibility architecture and provides equivalent functionality must be implemented. Such alternatives must be documented in the user agent conformance claim.

18:39:18 [AllanJ]

JR: need to define accessibility architecture

18:39:54 [AllanJ]

..."such arlternatives" should be changed to 'the situations'

18:40:24 [AllanJ]

SH: won't this lead to many alternatives

18:41:34 [AllanJ]

KF: User Agent says I support MSAA or UIA. but, the browser comes up with some new feature that is not supported in the platform architecture

18:42:10 [AllanJ]

...developer needs to rewrite or create some work around and document it

18:42:46 [AllanJ]

SH: this is more understandable than 2.1.3

18:43:43 [AllanJ]

KF: 2.1.3 says basically if all else fails provide an accessible alternative.

18:45:48 [AllanJ]

SH: current language seems too complex for concept we are aming for

18:47:12 [sharper]

All: Discussion around this phrasing and Wordsmithing

18:47:46 [JR]

If a feature is not supported by the accessibility architecture(s) used by the user agent, provide an equivalent feature does support the accessibility architecture.

18:48:22 [JR]

If a feature is not supported by the accessibility architecture(s) used by the user agent, provide an equivalent feature that does support the accessibility architecture(s).

18:48:39 [JR]

accessibility architecture(s).

18:48:47 [JR]

If a feature is not supported by the accessibility architecture(s), provide an equivalent feature that does support the accessibility architecture(s).

18:49:21 [JR]

If a feature is not supported by the accessibility architecture(s), provide an equivalent feature that does support the accessibility architecture(s) and document the equivalence in the conformance claim.

18:50:16 [JR]

If a feature is not supported by the accessibility architecture(s), provide an equivalent feature that does support the accessibility architecture(s). Document the equivalent feature in the conformance claim.

18:50:17 [sharper]

AllanJ: lets try to break this

18:50:58 [sharper]

AllanJ: How do we call attention to the equivalence in the interface?

18:51:19 [AllanJ]

how does the user know to use this equivalent feature

18:51:58 [jeanne]

jeanne has joined #ua

18:53:59 [JR]

JA: 5.3.2...documenting success criteria

18:54:14 [JR]

SH: Yes can go there

18:55:45 [AllanJ]

action: Jeanne to update 2.1.3 to If a feature is not supported by the accessibility architecture(s), provide an equivalent feature that does support the accessibility architecture(s). Document the equivalent feature in the conformance claim.

18:55:45 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-96 - Update 2.1.3 to If a feature is not supported by the accessibility architecture(s), provide an equivalent feature that does support the accessibility architecture(s). Document the equivalent feature in the conformance claim. [on Jeanne Spellman - due 2008-12-11].

18:56:11 [AllanJ]

all, agree to new wording

18:56:52 [sharper]

zakim, next item

18:56:52 [Zakim]

agendum 2. "Review Survey Items http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/" taken up [from sharper]

18:57:03 [Zakim]

+jeanne

18:57:38 [sharper]

zakim, close item 2

18:57:38 [Zakim]

agendum 2, Review Survey Items http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/, closed

18:57:40 [Zakim]

I see 4 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is

18:57:42 [Zakim]

3. Review Action Item status http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/tracker/actions/open [from sharper]

18:58:05 [sharper]

zakim, next item

18:58:05 [Zakim]

agendum 3. "Review Action Item status http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/tracker/actions/open" taken up [from sharper]

19:01:20 [sharper]

present+ jeanne

19:02:39 [judy]

judy has joined #ua

19:03:52 [Zakim]

+Judy

19:04:06 [sharper]

present+ Judy

19:06:35 [jeanne]

http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2008/WD-UAAG20-20081118/

19:07:15 [sharper]

zakim, close item 3

19:07:15 [Zakim]

agendum 3, Review Action Item status http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/tracker/actions/open, closed

19:07:15 [sharper]

zakim, next item

19:07:17 [Zakim]

I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is

19:07:18 [Zakim]

4. Brainstorm - who to contact for "request for comments" on next published [from sharper]

19:07:20 [Zakim]

agendum 4. "Brainstorm - who to contact for "request for comments" on next published" taken up [from sharper]

19:18:22 [sharper]

All: General discussion as to who could be approached regarding feedback.

19:18:26 [judy]

zakim, who's here?

19:18:26 [Zakim]

On the phone I see allanj, Jan, sharper, +1.425.894.aabb, jeanne, Judy

19:18:27 [Zakim]

On IRC I see judy, jeanne, RRSAgent, Zakim, JR, sharper, AllanJ, trackbot

19:19:19 [sharper]

zakim, +1.425.894.aabb is Ford_Kelly

19:19:19 [Zakim]

+Ford_Kelly; got it

19:19:39 [AllanJ]

regrets: alan_cantor

19:23:01 [JR]

+1

19:26:16 [judy]

action: JS & JB starting building push list for review of UAAG (and ATAG) drafts

19:26:16 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-97 - & JB starting building push list for review of UAAG (and ATAG) drafts [on Jeanne Spellman - due 2008-12-11].

19:26:50 [judy]

action: ALL -- send JS contact info if you have people you think would want to be on such a review list

19:26:50 [trackbot]

Sorry, couldn't find user - ALL

19:27:34 [sharper]

zakim, close item 4

19:27:34 [Zakim]

agendum 4, Brainstorm - who to contact for "request for comments" on next published, closed

19:27:36 [Zakim]

I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is

19:27:37 [Zakim]

5. Freeze document for draft publication. [from sharper]

19:27:56 [sharper]

zakim, next item

19:27:56 [Zakim]

agendum 5. "Freeze document for draft publication." taken up [from sharper]

19:29:24 [sharper]

AlanJ: Intended Publication date is W/C 15th Dec

19:29:32 [AllanJ]

Action: Jim to send list of status updates to Jeanne

19:29:32 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-98 - Send list of status updates to Jeanne [on Jim Allan - due 2008-12-11].

19:30:54 [sharper]

All: clarification of Freeze date - today minus anything to update today.

19:31:09 [sharper]

zakim, close item 5

19:31:09 [Zakim]

agendum 5, Freeze document for draft publication., closed

19:31:10 [Zakim]

I see 1 item remaining on the agenda:

19:31:11 [Zakim]

6. Need 2 volunteer proof readers in preparation of draft. [from sharper]

19:31:18 [Zakim]

-Ford_Kelly

19:31:22 [Zakim]

-Judy

19:31:31 [Zakim]

-Jan

19:31:32 [Zakim]

-allanj

19:31:45 [sharper]

rrsagent, create minutes

19:31:45 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/12/04-ua-minutes.html sharper

19:32:03 [sharper]

zakim, please part

19:32:03 [Zakim]

leaving. As of this point the attendees were +1.425.894.aaaa, allanj, Jan, sharper, jeanne, Judy, Ford_Kelly

19:32:03 [Zakim]

Zakim has left #ua

19:32:54 [sharper]

Meeting: User Agent Working Group

19:33:01 [sharper]

rrsagent, create minutes

19:33:01 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/12/04-ua-minutes.html sharper

19:33:56 [sharper]

RRSAgent, draft minutes

19:33:56 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/12/04-ua-minutes.html sharper

19:34:43 [sharper]

rrsagent, please part

19:34:43 [RRSAgent]

I see 8 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2008/12/04-ua-actions.rdf :

19:34:43 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Jeanne update draft for 3.2.2 (new 3.1.2) Level A 3.2.2 Rendering Alternatives (Minimum): Provide the user with the global option to set which type of alternative to render by default. If the alternative content has a different height and/or width, then the user agent will reflow the viewport. [1]

19:34:43 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/12/04-ua-irc#T18-17-10

19:34:43 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Jeanne update draft to include new item 3.2.x (new 3.1.x) Level AA 3.2.x Rendering Alternative (Enhanced): Provide the user with the global option to configure a cascade of types of alternatives to render by default, in case a prefered type is unavailable. If the alternative content has a different height and/or width, then the user agent will reflow the viewport. [2]

19:34:43 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/12/04-ua-irc#T18-18-28

19:34:43 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Jeanne to update 2.1.6 to be 2.1.6 Properties: If any of the following properties are supported by the accessibility platform architecture, make the properties available to the accessibility platform architecture: [3]

19:34:43 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/12/04-ua-irc#T18-25-49

19:34:43 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Jeanne update 2.1.7 to Timely Communication: For APIs implemented to satisfy the requirements of this document, ensure that programmatic exchanges proceed at a rate such that users do not perceive a delay [4]

19:34:43 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/12/04-ua-irc#T18-35-26

19:34:43 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Jeanne to update 2.1.3 to If a feature is not supported by the accessibility architecture(s), provide an equivalent feature that does support the accessibility architecture(s). Document the equivalent feature in the conformance claim. [5]

19:34:43 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/12/04-ua-irc#T18-55-45

19:34:43 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: JS & JB starting building push list for review of UAAG (and ATAG) drafts [6]

19:34:43 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/12/04-ua-irc#T19-26-16

19:34:43 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: ALL -- send JS contact info if you have people you think would want to be on such a review list [7]

19:34:43 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/12/04-ua-irc#T19-26-50

19:34:43 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Jim to send list of status updates to Jeanne [8]

19:34:43 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/12/04-ua-irc#T19-29-32