IRC log of backplane on 2008-12-02

Timestamps are in UTC.

15:33:20 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #backplane
15:33:20 [RRSAgent]
logging to
15:33:25 [CharlieWiecha]
rrsagent, make log public
15:33:38 [CharlieWiecha]
Meeting: Rich Web Application Backplane telecon
15:33:44 [CharlieWiecha]
Chair: Charlie Wiecha
15:34:54 [CharlieWiecha]
15:40:44 [CharlieWiecha]
Regrets: Jack
15:50:28 [CharlieWiecha]
Regrets: Jack, Uli
15:51:49 [oedipus]
oedipus has joined #backplane
15:56:48 [oedipus]
rrsagent, make minutes
15:56:48 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate oedipus
15:57:10 [oedipus]
Scribe: Gregory_Rosmaita
15:57:17 [oedipus]
ScribeNick: oedipus
15:57:18 [Zakim]
INC_RWAB()11:00AM has now started
15:57:20 [Zakim]
15:57:28 [oedipus]
trackbot, start telcon
15:57:32 [CharlieWiecha]
zakim, [IBM] is CharlieWiecha
15:57:33 [Zakim]
+CharlieWiecha; got it
15:58:21 [oedipus]
i invoked trackbot, but didn't realize that rrsagent and zakim were running
15:58:37 [oedipus]
trackbot, this is INC_RWAB
15:59:51 [trackbot]
trackbot has joined #backplane
15:59:51 [trackbot]
Sorry... I don't know anything about this channel
15:59:51 [trackbot]
If you want to associate this channel with an existing Tracker, please say 'trackbot, associate this channel with #channel' (where #channel is the name of default channel for the group)
16:00:13 [oedipus]
trackbot, associate this channel with #backplane
16:00:13 [trackbot]
Associating this channel with #backplane...
16:00:13 [trackbot]
Sorry... I don't know anything about this channel
16:00:13 [trackbot]
If you want to associate this channel with an existing Tracker, please say 'trackbot, associate this channel with #channel' (where #channel is the name of default channel for the group)
16:03:12 [oedipus]
zakim, what's the passcode?
16:03:12 [Zakim]
the conference code is 7922 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+ tel:+44.117.370.6152), oedipus
16:05:17 [Zakim]
16:09:16 [oedipus]
CW: sent out draft - working on it this morning - few comments in minutes
16:09:32 [oedipus]
TOPIC: XG Report
16:10:08 [oedipus]
CW: skipped over question of "what is a rich web application" -- perhaps need to loop back a bit to address declarative languages for rich web applications
16:10:41 [oedipus]
CW: prototyping early next year had been the plan, but perhaps have opportunity to begin first report with discussion of "what is a rich web application"
16:11:00 [oedipus]
CW: re-read and think that the info is there, but needs to be compiled and conflated
16:11:38 [oedipus]
CW: we are RWAB XG -- struck at TPAC about what other WGs doing; HTML5 not interested; Dave Raggett has new XG
16:11:59 [oedipus]
CW: aim is that RWAB XG report that could trigger thinking across community
16:12:08 [oedipus]
CW: what is need for RWA?
16:12:54 [oedipus]
CW: evolution of web from content platform to application platform; HTML came from content-publishing background and incrementally changes, but current working groups are concentrating on cross-platform apps
16:13:23 [oedipus]
CW: both API and format -- continuing need for someone in W3C to investigate this issue in detail, not ad hoc
16:14:27 [oedipus]
CW: what do we mean by "rich"? stems from functionality; definition of "rich" can factor that - not enough to provide graphics (presentation) -- think from MVC PoV it is an application, and each level has its own levels of richness
16:14:58 [oedipus]
CW: pre-fill screen intelligently in conformance with past actions, saved preferences, etc. --- functionality of interactino
16:15:12 [oedipus]
CW: context feedback - what controls are active at any point and time
16:15:25 [oedipus]
CW: rich graphics PoV is limited; open discussion of richness
16:15:39 [oedipus]
GJR: sounds to me like ARIA for those who don't use AT
16:18:42 [oedipus]
CW: performance benefits, accessibility benefits, persistence with local cache
16:19:23 [oedipus]
CW: second section to broaden definition of RWA so people don't think about rich graphics, but providing data-, view-, control/logic aspects
16:19:43 [CharlieWiecha]
see for paper draft outline
16:19:50 [oedipus]
GJR: Rich Web Application equals "Smart" Web Application
16:20:02 [oedipus]
CW: how does one build one
16:20:10 [oedipus]
CW: architectural patterns
16:20:26 [oedipus]
CW: sub-section for each? just made list of what could think of offhand, so please add
16:20:56 [oedipus]
CW: MVC patterns trying to incorporate into ubiquity-xforms -- feeding data by ubiquity binding - MVC pattern
16:21:12 [oedipus]
CW: using events coordinated across page so more transparent
16:21:22 [oedipus]
CW: Mark Birbeck very keen on this;
16:21:41 [oedipus]
CW: JackJ keen on what he's developed in SMIL paper: implicit coordination pattern
16:21:59 [oedipus]
CW: Rahul's submissions pattern - other uses of mechanism (incremental data refresh, etc.)
16:22:11 [oedipus]
CW: can fill out sections on patterns
16:22:29 [oedipus]
CW: section on problem of platform support: how to deliver XML to client?
16:22:54 [oedipus]
CW: javascript as tag library not model for page author - javascript in XML rather than XSLT
16:23:07 [oedipus]
CW: ODF implement in client using javascript; vertical standards
16:23:42 [oedipus]
CW: XML not data definition, but processing model of life cycle; when have behavior need script library to do that - been traditional problem
16:24:00 [oedipus]
CW: bridging what Forms WG doing - how did we get from here to there
16:25:01 [oedipus]
GJR: for the sub-section you outlined, i will provide prose as to how one could could repurpose from backend to deliver what is most appropriate/useable
16:28:16 [Zakim]
16:28:17 [Zakim]
16:28:17 [Zakim]
INC_RWAB()11:00AM has ended
16:28:18 [Zakim]
Attendees were CharlieWiecha, Gregory_Rosmaita
16:28:25 [oedipus]
16:28:33 [oedipus]
zakim, please part
16:28:33 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #backplane
16:28:38 [oedipus]
rrsagent, make minutes
16:28:38 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate oedipus
16:38:54 [oedipus]
rrsagent, please part
16:38:54 [RRSAgent]
I see no action items