IRC log of svg on 2008-12-01

Timestamps are in UTC.

19:31:07 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #svg
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logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/12/01-svg-irc
19:31:09 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs public
19:31:11 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be GA_SVGWG
19:31:11 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot; I see GA_SVGWG()2:30PM scheduled to start now
19:31:12 [trackbot]
Meeting: SVG Working Group Teleconference
19:31:12 [trackbot]
Date: 01 December 2008
19:31:44 [Zakim]
GA_SVGWG()2:30PM has now started
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+Shepazu
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+??P2
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-Shepazu
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+Shepazu
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+??P1
19:31:52 [heycam]
Zakim, ??P2 is me
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+heycam; got it
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+??P3
19:32:35 [anthony]
Zakim, ??P3 is me
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+anthony; got it
19:32:39 [heycam]
Zakim, mute me
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heycam should now be muted
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Zakim, unmute me
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heycam should no longer be muted
19:33:16 [NH]
??P1 is me
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Zakim, ??P1 is NH
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+NH; got it
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Zakim, ??P1 is me
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I already had ??P1 as NH, NH
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-NH
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ed has joined #svg
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+??P1
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Zakim, ??P1 is me
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+ed; got it
19:36:24 [ed]
Zakim, who's here?
19:36:24 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Shepazu, heycam, anthony, ed
19:36:25 [Zakim]
On IRC I see ed, RRSAgent, Zakim, NH, trackbot, heycam, shepazu, anthony, ed_work
19:37:48 [Zakim]
+??P4
19:41:08 [shepazu]
Zakim, unmute ed
19:41:08 [Zakim]
ed was not muted, shepazu
19:42:12 [anthony]
Scribe: anthony
19:42:14 [anthony]
Chair: Erik
19:42:21 [anthony]
Topic: Selectors API
19:42:34 [anthony]
DS: We should address this as early as possible
19:42:55 [anthony]
ED: Was there anyone else going to review it?
19:43:00 [anthony]
AG: I had an action to review it
19:43:04 [anthony]
... I'll do that today
19:43:51 [anthony]
DS: Having looked at why the CSS WG decided to say never mind on that issue
19:44:21 [anthony]
... (namespaces) I inclined to let it go
19:44:29 [anthony]
... what do you guys to think?
19:44:51 [anthony]
... do we really want to the SVG WG to be the group that insists on namespaces
19:45:17 [anthony]
ED: To me realistically want namespaces are you going to encounter?
19:45:33 [anthony]
... I can only see SVG and HTML5 as the opportunity to select only SVG or HTML elements
19:46:21 [anthony]
... and it's always possible to use DOM3 XPath if you need arbitrary selection support
19:46:47 [anthony]
DS: If we pushed off namespaces to the second version there is a very good chance
19:46:56 [anthony]
... that people may not support that version
19:47:20 [anthony]
CM: For the case of between SVG and HTML
19:47:58 [anthony]
... there is probably use the selector itself and look at the parent to clarify what it is
19:48:59 [anthony]
[discussion on how selection works]
19:49:17 [anthony]
DS: Lets assume that a version gets implemented that doesn't use namespaces
19:49:30 [anthony]
... I don't think it would be that much harder to implement
19:49:53 [anthony]
... as you're accumulating elements you can always just check the namespace URI attribute/property
19:50:09 [anthony]
... it would be slower, but only if you're using namespaces
19:50:55 [anthony]
... authors can always do the namespace URI check manually, it's just a pain
19:51:09 [anthony]
ED: That's why I pushed for an example on the spec on this
19:51:17 [anthony]
... so people can see how to solve the problem
19:51:32 [anthony]
DS: I'll have to go back and look through the whole namespaces thing
19:52:16 [anthony]
... David Barron said that someone had a spec with name spaces, and he argued to
19:52:25 [anthony]
s/to/that/
19:52:27 [ed]
spec or impl?
19:52:33 [anthony]
... it would go to rec quicker
19:52:56 [heycam]
s/Barron/Baron/
19:53:03 [anthony]
... I don't know why they dropped it
19:53:17 [shepazu]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2008Nov/0538.html
19:56:13 [anthony]
CM: Do you know which implementations support CCS3 namespaces?
19:57:02 [heycam]
s/CCS/CSS/
19:57:07 [anthony]
... just wondering the complexity is because of implementing namespace support in CSS in general or the NS resolve stuff in the Selectors API?
19:57:15 [anthony]
DS: Not sure
19:57:16 [heycam]
s/NS resolve/NSResolver/
19:57:35 [anthony]
ED: I haven't looked into this I know that Opera has implemented some of this
19:58:16 [anthony]
... not in my hands to implement, but it would be quite simple to do
19:58:29 [anthony]
... the NSResolvers look fairly simple to me
20:00:13 [anthony]
DS: I'll talk to Lochi and Boris and look at the rationale as why namespaces was removed
20:00:43 [anthony]
ACTION: Doug to Investigate why namespaces was removed
20:00:44 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-2364 - Investigate why namespaces was removed [on Doug Schepers - due 2008-12-08].
20:00:52 [shepazu]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2008JulSep/0115.html
20:01:48 [anthony]
DS: This seems to be the point at where Lochi says to remove it
20:02:04 [anthony]
... so maybe we should our comments in on Thursday instead
20:02:08 [anthony]
ED: That would be good
20:03:19 [anthony]
Topic: Errata
20:03:22 [heycam]
s/Lochi/Lachy/
20:03:28 [heycam]
s/Lochi/Lachy/g
20:04:59 [ed]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008OctDec/0411.html
20:07:16 [anthony]
CM: That looks like what we want
20:08:11 [anthony]
... should change "For example" to e.g.
20:08:42 [anthony]
DS: I tried to word it in such a way that implementors could derive the value for boundingbox
20:09:07 [anthony]
ED: I like the first paragraph there with the clippath and the boundingbox
20:09:34 [anthony]
DS: It solves two issues what the boundingbox should be and where pointer events should occur
20:10:40 [anthony]
DS: How are we going to make the new spec?
20:10:46 [anthony]
AG: How do you mean?
20:11:12 [anthony]
DS: Are we going to make a new build process like Tiny 1.2 or are we going to do it manually?
20:11:36 [anthony]
CM: Probably manually
20:13:05 [anthony]
DS: Anthony can you make the changes please. Typos are "and" to "an" and "e.g" to "i.e"
20:14:06 [shepazu]
http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/Group/repository/errata/errata.xml#clippath-pointer-events
20:14:16 [ed]
http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/errata/errata.xml#clippath-pointer-events
20:16:39 [shepazu]
http://www.svg-whiz.com/svg/HideShow.svg
20:18:01 [ed]
Zakim, who's here?
20:18:01 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Shepazu, heycam, anthony, ed, ??P4
20:18:02 [Zakim]
On IRC I see ed, RRSAgent, Zakim, NH, trackbot, heycam, shepazu, anthony, ed_work
20:18:36 [ed]
Zakim, ??P4 is NH
20:18:36 [Zakim]
+NH; got it
20:18:37 [anthony]
ACTION: Anthony to Adds Doug proposed wording to the errata and make changes as discussed
20:18:37 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-2365 - Adds Doug proposed wording to the errata and make changes as discussed [on Anthony Grasso - due 2008-12-08].
20:19:18 [anthony]
ACTION: Doug to Follow up errata proposal on the Email list to say that pointer events and clipping have been resolved
20:19:18 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-2366 - Follow up errata proposal on the Email list to say that pointer events and clipping have been resolved [on Doug Schepers - due 2008-12-08].
20:24:01 [ed]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008OctDec/0408.html
20:24:31 [anthony]
ED: We did get an email from Niklas clamping of rx and ry values
20:24:37 [anthony]
... just wondering if we should errata this
20:25:02 [anthony]
... so I did start writing a new test for this particular issue
20:25:13 [anthony]
... from the testing so far we have more than two ways of doing it
20:25:24 [anthony]
... testing browsers
20:26:01 [anthony]
AG: Did we specify anything in Tiny?
20:26:09 [anthony]
ED: I think it was lifted from 1.1
20:26:28 [ed]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008OctDec/0409.html
20:26:46 [anthony]
NH: In emailed a second test
20:26:54 [anthony]
ED: It does seem to make sense
20:27:12 [anthony]
... So maybe we should discuss briefly which way is more appropriate
20:27:33 [anthony]
... it is difficult to read from the spec which right way
20:28:23 [anthony]
NH: I think we have two options either we to assign ry if it's not specified and clamp that
20:28:36 [anthony]
... or you should clamp all the way as my last email says
20:28:56 [anthony]
ED: Do you have a preference
20:29:04 [anthony]
NH: Actually it doesn't really matter for me
20:29:17 [anthony]
... easiest way would be to not clamp "ry"
20:29:38 [anthony]
AG: I think in this case what is most intuitive when it comes to authoring
20:29:56 [anthony]
ED: For for authoring I'd expect to be whatever is clamped for rx and ry
20:30:21 [anthony]
... then I'd expect that value to be used for the other attribute (not specified)
20:30:34 [anthony]
NH: It's not that obvious
20:34:13 [anthony]
ACTION: Erik to Propose an errata item for rx and ry
20:34:13 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-2367 - Propose an errata item for rx and ry [on Erik Dahlström - due 2008-12-08].
20:38:06 [anthony]
ED: We can look at the current translate and current scale errata
20:38:10 [ed]
http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/errata/errata.xml#currenttranslate-currentscale-nested-svg
20:38:12 [anthony]
... it has a resolution
20:40:46 [anthony]
... looks like Doug raised this
20:40:55 [anthony]
DS: Not sure what the spec says right now
20:41:15 [anthony]
ED: Probably only need to do changes in the structure chapter
20:42:27 [anthony]
ACTION: Doug to Propose wording for the change that addresses the errata item Current Translate Current Scale on nested SVG
20:42:27 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-2368 - Propose wording for the change that addresses the errata item Current Translate Current Scale on nested SVG [on Doug Schepers - due 2008-12-08].
20:43:22 [shepazu]
http://www.w3.org/2005/10/Process-20051014/tr.html#errata
20:44:11 [ed]
http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/errata/errata.xml#bzwidth
20:45:33 [ed]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2005May/0022.html
20:45:34 [anthony]
ED: There are no links there
20:45:38 [anthony]
... would be useful
20:45:47 [anthony]
... This is probably the start of it
20:46:53 [anthony]
... Might be a good idea to go through
20:47:04 [anthony]
... and find out if Tiny fixed this
20:47:25 [anthony]
DS: We should give this serious thought about how this interacts with CSS
20:47:50 [anthony]
... we should start coordinating on little issues like this
20:48:02 [anthony]
... will help create a better working relationship with CSS
20:48:26 [anthony]
... The SVG spec should say what the width and height are and should also allow authors to use that more usefully
20:50:51 [anthony]
ED: There were some changes in Firefox and Opera where the width and height on the SVG were ignored if the SVG was being used in an object tag
20:51:03 [anthony]
... we should definitely try to specify it better
20:52:16 [ed]
if there was width and height AND a viewbox...and the object had width and height...IIRC
20:52:36 [anthony]
ACTION: Doug to Investigate if WICD addresses some of the issues about scaling size interaction between SVG and CSS
20:52:36 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-2369 - Investigate if WICD addresses some of the issues about scaling size interaction between SVG and CSS [on Doug Schepers - due 2008-12-08].
20:53:47 [anthony]
ACTION: Erik to Go through the e-mailing thread for errata item "Sizing of the outermost svg" and update the item discussion
20:53:47 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-2370 - Go through the e-mailing thread for errata item \"Sizing of the outermost svg\" and update the item discussion [on Erik Dahlström - due 2008-12-08].
20:56:07 [anthony]
<?xml-stylesheet type="text/xsl" href="../../../tools/errata/errata2xhtml.xsl"?>
20:56:52 [anthony]
application/xslt+xml
20:59:54 [Zakim]
-heycam
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-ed
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-anthony
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-NH
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-Shepazu
21:00:20 [Zakim]
GA_SVGWG()2:30PM has ended
21:00:21 [Zakim]
Attendees were Shepazu, heycam, anthony, NH, ed
21:00:27 [anthony]
Zakim, bye
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Zakim has left #svg
21:00:34 [anthony]
RRSAgent, make minutes
21:00:35 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/12/01-svg-minutes.html anthony
21:01:41 [shepazu]
ed: is there a published API for your bug tracker?
21:03:03 [ed]
shepazu: what type of api?
21:04:31 [shepazu]
well, some way of filing a bug with a script, and getting followups and responses back out (if you ever open it up to public)
21:05:43 [ed]
bugs.opera.com, or bugs.opera.com/wizard is what's there now
21:06:26 [ed]
unfortunately it's still sort of a black hole to the public
21:07:38 [shepazu]
lhc?
21:09:00 [ed]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lhc
21:09:28 [shepazu]
lol
21:09:57 [ed]
the system is called JIRA, there might be some existing tools that interact with it
21:10:04 [ed]
http://www.atlassian.com/software/jira/
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