IRC log of mediaann on 2008-11-11

Timestamps are in UTC.

20:46:55 [RRSAgent]
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logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/11/11-mediaann-irc
20:47:02 [fsasaki]
meeting: media annotations WG
20:47:05 [fsasaki]
chair: Felix
20:47:32 [fsasaki]
agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-annotation/2008Nov/0048.html
20:47:48 [fsasaki]
regrets: Daniel, Raphael, Thierry, Erik, Davy
20:50:32 [wbailer]
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20:53:44 [pchampin]
I'm affraid I won't be able to be on the phone, only IRC
20:54:52 [fsasaki]
present: dave, felix, joakim, pierre, ruben, werner
20:55:15 [wonsuk]
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20:55:24 [fsasaki]
present+ wonsuk
20:55:35 [tobiasbuerger]
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20:55:42 [fsasaki]
present+ tobias
20:56:52 [Zakim]
IA_MAWG()4:00PM has now started
20:56:59 [Zakim]
+AndreaP
20:58:03 [Zakim]
+??P1
20:58:14 [tobiasbuerger]
Zakim, P1 is me
20:58:14 [Zakim]
sorry, tobiasbuerger, I do not recognize a party named 'P1'
20:58:26 [Zakim]
+Felix
20:58:29 [Zakim]
+??P2
20:59:04 [tobiasbuerger]
Zakim, ??P1
20:59:04 [Zakim]
I don't understand '??P1', tobiasbuerger
20:59:06 [Zakim]
+jcraig
20:59:13 [dsinger]
zakim, jcraig is dsinger
20:59:13 [Zakim]
+dsinger; got it
20:59:38 [pchampin]
sorry for my newbieness, but can zakim call me?
20:59:53 [Zakim]
+ +43.316.876.aaaa
21:00:16 [wbailer]
zakim, aaaa is me
21:00:16 [Zakim]
+wbailer; got it
21:02:31 [fsasaki]
scribe: werner
21:02:35 [fsasaki]
scribeNick: wbailer
21:02:43 [Zakim]
+??P5
21:03:18 [js]
??P7
21:03:27 [js]
??p7
21:03:47 [js]
zakim, ??p7
21:03:47 [Zakim]
I don't understand '??p7', js
21:03:59 [fsasaki]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-annotation/2008Nov/0048.html
21:04:16 [fsasaki]
topic: Agenda review / approval of previous minutes
21:04:24 [fsasaki]
http://www.w3.org/2008/10/23-mediaann-minutes.html
21:04:29 [fsasaki]
http://www.w3.org/2008/10/24-mediaann-minutes.html
21:04:33 [js]
??P2 is joakim
21:05:11 [wbailer]
minutes approved
21:05:21 [fsasaki]
topic: Selection of scribe for next meeting.
21:05:28 [wbailer]
joakim
21:05:34 [fsasaki]
topic: Future telephone conferences and f2f meetings / call time
21:06:46 [fsasaki]
see admin page
21:06:51 [fsasaki]
topic: Action items
21:07:02 [dsinger]
by the way, Eric Carlson is also here on the same line and IRC with me
21:07:21 [fsasaki]
present+ ericCarlson
21:07:49 [cgi-irc]
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21:08:10 [wbailer]
introduction eric carlson (Apple)
21:08:19 [frank]
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21:08:53 [fsasaki]
close ACTION-20
21:08:53 [trackbot]
ACTION-20 Add a link from WG page to the "still alive" MMSEM wiki pages and to make sure that everybody can edit the pages closed
21:09:10 [wbailer]
action-20 done
21:09:10 [frank]
hello everybody, Veronique and I call in now (we share a phone)
21:09:34 [fsasaki]
close ACTION-21
21:09:34 [trackbot]
ACTION-21 Create a liaison to Geolocation WG closed
21:10:01 [fsasaki]
ACTION-22 Go back to Karen and check about " IPTV metadata specification" - what is it, is it available for us? - pending
21:10:30 [fsasaki]
close ACTION-23
21:10:30 [trackbot]
ACTION-23 Explain XMLSPEC to wonsuk closed
21:10:42 [Zakim]
+ +31.20.612.aabb
21:11:17 [fsasaki]
close ACTION-24
21:11:17 [trackbot]
ACTION-24 Get CVS accounts for veronique and wonsuk closed
21:11:40 [fsasaki]
close ACTION-25
21:11:40 [trackbot]
ACTION-25 Review XMP basic schema closed
21:11:58 [fsasaki]
close ACTION-26
21:11:58 [trackbot]
ACTION-26 Review XMP Dublin Core schema closed
21:12:07 [fsasaki]
close ACTION-27
21:12:07 [trackbot]
ACTION-27 Review XMP Rights Management schema closed
21:12:17 [fsasaki]
close ACTION-28
21:12:17 [trackbot]
ACTION-28 Review XMP Media Management schema closed
21:12:24 [fsasaki]
close ACTION-29
21:12:24 [trackbot]
ACTION-29 Tell Wonsuk to review XMP Basic Job Ticket schema and Paged-Text schema closed
21:12:37 [fsasaki]
close ACTION-30
21:12:37 [trackbot]
ACTION-30 Review XMP Dynamic Media schema closed
21:12:49 [fsasaki]
close ACTION-31
21:12:49 [trackbot]
ACTION-31 Contact tom baker about dc liaison closed
21:13:14 [fsasaki]
action-32 Make a liaison with MPEG using information from the XP homepage - pending
21:13:30 [fsasaki]
action-33 Evaluate if contact to IPTV Japan is valuable - pending
21:13:47 [fsasaki]
action-34 Contact Open IPTV forum - pending
21:14:03 [fsasaki]
close ACTION-35
21:14:03 [trackbot]
ACTION-35 Check contacts to OMA closed
21:15:01 [fsasaki]
action: Felix to make a liaison with OMA
21:15:01 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-36 - Make a liaison with OMA [on Felix Sasaki - due 2008-11-18].
21:15:37 [fsasaki]
topic: New use case "Digital imaging lifecycle"
21:15:44 [fsasaki]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-annotation/2008Oct/0078.html
21:15:52 [fsasaki]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-annotation/2008Nov/0000.html
21:16:45 [wbailer]
ruben: jpeg in process of defining metadata for digital image lifecycle
21:17:01 [wbailer]
... specific type of search/retrieval uc
21:18:31 [wbailer]
felix: keep use case and discuss in future call
21:18:39 [fsasaki]
or via mail
21:18:57 [fsasaki]
topic: New use case "life log"
21:19:09 [fsasaki]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-annotation/2008Oct/0073.html
21:20:57 [cgi-irc]
maybe it can be an interesting use case for checking how the interoperability across media can be achieved
21:21:24 [fsasaki]
veronique = cgi-irc
21:21:30 [pchampin]
+1 veronique
21:22:07 [wbailer]
veronique: consider in second stage of ontology dvelopment
21:22:38 [fsasaki]
topic: XMP review
21:22:44 [fsasaki]
http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Annotations/wiki/XMP
21:23:55 [fsasaki]
http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Annotations/wiki/XMP#Dublin_Core_schema
21:24:21 [wbailer]
thierry: dublin core: everything could be adopted
21:25:49 [wbailer]
felix: some fields (eg data) quite general, might conflict with fields from other standards
21:26:29 [wbailer]
+1, I think for most dc fields we need to specify how we use them
21:27:04 [wbailer]
ruben: granularity of fields (eg name, more structured eg in mpeg-7)
21:27:56 [wbailer]
david: string is general, everything else might cause eg internationalisation problems
21:29:10 [dsinger]
it may be solved, but it can be a tarpit
21:29:28 [wbailer]
goal is to keep simple
21:29:43 [wbailer]
veronique: pointing to vocbulary (eg artist names)
21:29:54 [pchampin]
wouldn't that be interesting, nevertheless, to allow the URI of another resource (possibly defined elswhere), insread of a plain string?
21:30:30 [wbailer]
felix: need to decide whether internationalistation of names is an issue or we just map to simple strings
21:30:45 [fsasaki]
topic: XMP Basic schema
21:30:45 [dsinger]
it's intriguing to think that anything can be a value or a URI
21:30:57 [dsinger]
but what happens if I say "my name is" "URI to jpeg image"
21:31:00 [dsinger]
?
21:31:30 [pchampin]
I was rather suggesting "the creator is (string|URI)"
21:31:44 [wbailer]
david: uri issues brings us back to foaf
21:32:20 [pchampin]
I'm not suggesting that we should embed the descrition of that URI...
21:32:23 [dsinger]
friend of a friend?
21:33:50 [wbailer]
http://www.foaf-project.org/
21:33:51 [dsinger]
you mean? <http://xmlns.com/foaf/0.1/>
21:34:22 [frank]
A string is not less ambigious than a URI (I could write name = sjdhfqflf
21:34:59 [pchampin]
I would say a string is *much more* ambiguous
21:35:06 [wbailer]
joakim: foaf is used in imdb
21:35:25 [pchampin]
But we can not assume every person to have a URI with appropriate FOAF properties
21:35:31 [dsinger]
in terms of presentation, it's very clear; a URI ("gopher:" ?) is much less obviously presentable
21:35:33 [js]
foaf is used by linked movie database
21:37:08 [wbailer]
felix: string may be meaningful or not, additional uri (need to ensure that uri points to suitable resource)
21:37:16 [rtous]
also a problem with "address" field
21:37:41 [fsasaki]
http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Annotations/wiki/XMP#XMP_Basic_schema
21:38:13 [wbailer]
felix: going through elements
21:39:40 [wbailer]
topic: XMP Rights Management schema
21:39:41 [fsasaki]
topic: XMP Rights Management schema
21:39:43 [fsasaki]
http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Annotations/wiki/XMP#XMP_Rights_Management_schema
21:41:28 [wbailer]
dave: even simple copyright can become complex (eg composition of media)
21:41:51 [wbailer]
... simple copyright cannot be ignored
21:42:23 [wbailer]
felix: does that require to include properties into ontology
21:42:49 [wbailer]
dave: simple copyright, global to media
21:43:21 [frank]
I thought we had decided in the last f2f meeting that we simply go for one slot
21:43:38 [wbailer]
joakim: dynamic temporal metadata support (for real time apps)
21:43:59 [dsinger]
I am tempted to say that ALL metadata is temporal, but the first version only allows you to ask "right now" what is...?
21:44:19 [dsinger]
which covers a radio station where it varies by song...
21:44:26 [wbailer]
topic: XMP Media Management schema
21:44:28 [fsasaki]
http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Annotations/wiki/XMP#XMP_Media_Management_schema
21:46:15 [wbailer]
veronique: 3 levels: content - realisation -instance
21:46:35 [wbailer]
... still to be decided whether 3 or 1 level
21:47:25 [dsinger]
yes, use cases are essential: we'll never decide what we want if we don't know what we want it to be useful for
21:47:37 [rtous]
Functional Requirements for Bibliographic Records (FRBR) : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FRBR
21:47:44 [wbailer]
ruben: different levels could simplify things (e.g. content description such as title vs tech metadata like encoding)
21:48:07 [wbailer]
+1 ruben
21:48:23 [cgi-irc]
we can also check out how many models go for 3 levels and how many go for 1
21:48:57 [cgi-irc]
VRA has also 3 levels
21:49:08 [js]
mpeg-7 has two
21:49:18 [pchampin]
I'm still not sure there should be a *constant* level of models...
21:49:25 [cgi-irc]
two is good enough
21:49:31 [dsinger]
what are the 3 levels? (sorry...)
21:49:41 [wbailer]
content - realisation -instance
21:49:48 [dsinger]
thx
21:50:06 [pchampin]
what about the photo of a painting?
21:50:13 [wbailer]
felix: volunteers for looking at how standards handle this issue?
21:50:18 [pchampin]
or a movie making of?
21:50:22 [rtous]
I can do that
21:50:51 [wbailer]
action: ruben to survey how other standards handle the issue of levels of description
21:50:51 [trackbot]
Sorry, couldn't find user - ruben
21:51:05 [wbailer]
action: rtous to survey how other standards handle the issue of levels of description
21:51:06 [dsinger]
well, basically "content: beethoiven's 5th; realisation: berlin phil, 1962; instance: cassette tape from DG 1964"???
21:52:05 [tobiasbuerger]
who do these three levels relate to the levels defined in FRBR (work-expression-manifestion-item)? content:==work, expression==realisation, manifestation==instance; item is not existing?)
21:52:18 [wbailer]
topic: XMP Basic Job Ticket schema
21:53:08 [js]
you can also look at the music ontology who has adopted the idea
21:53:27 [tobiasbuerger]
yes, the music ontology adapted FRBR I guess
21:53:53 [fsasaki]
http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Annotations/wiki/XMP#XMP_Basic_Job_Ticket_schemaa
21:54:26 [wbailer]
topic: XMP Paged-text schema
21:54:38 [fsasaki]
http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Annotations/wiki/XMP#XMP_Paged-text_schema
21:55:26 [tobiasbuerger]
I guess we do not need it in our current use cases
21:55:32 [wbailer]
topic: XMP Dynamic Media schema
21:55:34 [fsasaki]
http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Annotations/wiki/XMP#XMP_Dynamic_Media_schema
21:55:38 [tobiasbuerger]
(I meant the basic job ticket information)
21:56:23 [wbailer]
joakim: many detailed technical aspects included
21:57:00 [fsasaki]
xmpDM:logComment User’s log comments.
21:57:19 [wbailer]
veronique: does this refer to tagging?
21:57:37 [wbailer]
felix: little information in xmp spec
21:58:18 [wbailer]
veronique: slot for tags needed - could this field by used?
21:59:34 [wbailer]
all to look at xmp reviews, discussion continues next week
22:00:06 [wbailer]
topic: Draft for Use cases and requirements document
22:00:50 [wbailer]
veronique: more ideas/comments about general structure should be sent to list
22:01:31 [fsasaki]
action: Felix to write a mail about the general structure of the use cases / req document
22:01:31 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-37 - Write a mail about the general structure of the use cases / req document [on Felix Sasaki - due 2008-11-18].
22:02:16 [wbailer]
all to review and comment
22:03:29 [wbailer]
felix: formal definition of ontology, complexity of api, etc
22:03:56 [dsinger]
thx, bye!
22:04:01 [Zakim]
-dsinger
22:04:03 [Zakim]
-joakim
22:04:03 [tobiasbuerger]
bye
22:04:06 [rtous]
bye
22:04:06 [Zakim]
-wbailer
22:04:07 [Zakim]
-Felix
22:04:09 [Zakim]
-Frank
22:04:13 [Zakim]
-wonsuk
22:04:13 [wonsuk]
wonsuk has left #mediaann
22:04:15 [js]
bye
22:04:25 [frank]
bye
22:04:26 [Zakim]
-ruben
22:04:33 [Zakim]
-tobias
22:04:35 [Zakim]
IA_MAWG()4:00PM has ended
22:04:36 [Zakim]
Attendees were Felix, dsinger, +43.316.876.aaaa, tobias, wbailer, joakim, wonsuk, ruben, +31.20.612.aabb, veronique
22:04:44 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/11/11-mediaann-minutes.html fsasaki
22:05:44 [pchampin]
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