06:55:40 RRSAgent has joined #egov 06:55:40 logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/10/24-egov-irc 06:55:45 zakim, this will be egov 06:55:47 ok, josema; I see T&S_EGOV()3:00AM scheduled to start in 5 minutes 06:56:05 john has joined #eGov 06:56:09 chair: john 06:56:20 topic: joint meeting with PLING 07:03:39 trackbot, start telcon 07:03:41 RRSAgent, make logs public 07:03:43 Zakim, this will be EGOV 07:03:43 ok, trackbot; I see T&S_EGOV()3:00AM scheduled to start 3 minutes ago 07:03:44 Meeting: eGovernment Interest Group Teleconference 07:03:44 Date: 24 October 2008 07:03:53 chair: john 07:04:00 topic: joint meeting with PLING 07:04:10 zakim, call esterel 07:04:10 ok, josema; the call is being made 07:04:11 T&S_EGOV()3:00AM has now started 07:04:12 +Esterel 07:07:01 +??P4 07:07:03 -??P4 07:07:03 +??P4 07:07:10 mamol has joined #egov 07:07:40 zakim, ??P4 is trond 07:07:41 +trond; got it 07:08:45 scribeNick: josema 07:09:06 renato: chair of PLING, joint meeting to discuss about potential overlap 07:09:37 ... social networks also in scope for us as an interesting case to look at 07:09:47 ... also people from PrimeLife EU project 07:09:52 BeNg has joined #egov 07:09:56 q? 07:10:16 caribou has joined #egov 07:10:20 ... also policies that can impact human activity on the Web 07:10:57 rigo: I think we have identified the need for a general ?? framework that should interest govs 07:11:20 ... where you can push general policy on your data records that travel 07:11:28 ... so you'll know about that data in the future 07:11:45 Ralph has joined #egov 07:12:10 ... general policy constraining?? framework 07:12:31 ... we need more use cases 07:12:34 Rinke has joined #egov 07:12:53 renato: we need to capture the needs of the larger community 07:12:59 rigo: also experience with large scale use cases 07:13:21 john: we too are working on use cases 07:14:09 ... we spend our time thinking about 4 types of interaction: G2G, G2C,... 07:14:36 ... whole of stuff that is going on around the Web, some wrong 07:14:49 ... very simple stuff that needs to be improved 07:15:14 ... discussed about use of performance data, how to improve policy outcomes in some areas 07:15:24 ... describe that with use cases in those areas 07:15:34 ... eg. G2G needs more data sharing 07:16:15 ... G2C important issue of how people uses data that the government produces 07:16:23 renato: is this documented? 07:16:39 john: we are starting, group is young 07:16:45 ... but starting to document already 07:16:56 ... some things are very difficult, scope is broad 07:17:11 ... understanding the landscape takes time 07:17:28 ... data sharing is massive, almost any kind of public policy outcome 07:17:50 ... needs this, there are legal challenges, also challenges around errors 07:18:17 ... eg. to transfer the data between two departments, there was the need to use a CDRom 07:18:26 ... that was lost in the transaction 07:19:30 ??: that is a problem I found already because of the policy itself?? 07:20:06 ... certification and law in place should help improve this?? 07:20:36 s/??/Andreas/ 07:20:48 ... there also ideas of modifying processes, methods, etc. 07:21:03 ... we need to make sure the certification bodies to take care of this asap ?? 07:21:22 john: from UK perspective, we don't have two levels but many to classify material 07:21:43 ... problem change the higher we go, higher end covers eg. intelligence community 07:22:05 rigo has joined #egov 07:22:10 ... you'd think it'd work well at that level, but there also problems there 07:22:23 ... another approach is the risk of having the info public or not 07:22:23 Vagner-br has joined #egov 07:22:57 klaus has joined #egov 07:23:23 ... one person's tax record might not be that interesting but 25 million is different 07:23:30 ... also approach to take into account 07:23:57 ... we commissioned a data handling review and for the first time 07:24:14 ... every gov dept had to identify their data assets and one person responsible for them 07:24:42 andrea: and you make a persona liable for gov data? 07:25:16 john: no, conversations are happening on how to deal with it 07:25:33 ... we probably need new legislation in place to deal with this 07:25:41 ??: [lost comment] 07:25:54 s/??/Lucy Lynch/ 07:26:26 s/[lost comment]/are those things redundant? if not it's a single point of failure 07:26:27 rigo: enforcement by stamp, one of the issues that we have is that when developing those use cases 07:26:59 ... you have to very strict, perhaps a piece of data in a DB somewhere dissapears and it's spread among many 07:27:08 ... different systems, like in a graph 07:27:19 ... how would you re-construct it? find it? 07:27:45 s/things/"persons"/ 07:28:48 [lost some] 07:29:05 jan: interesting question, how W3C can be relevant to solve some of these issues 07:29:14 ... you can probably do better than losing those 2 CDs 07:29:21 ... what's the scope of eGov at W3C here? 07:30:02 rigo: from PLING side we need to be able to represent the constraints that governments have 07:30:47 Andreas: you need a system to help the person managing the asset 07:30:58 ... W3C could help putting a framework in place 07:31:08 ... that could be a relevant UC 07:31:42 ... if you have the system set up, the responsable owners of the asset have a chance to deal with it 07:32:03 john: to give you a sense of scale, in just one department in the Ministry of Interior 07:32:33 ... there are one hundred people that are "data owners" 07:33:07 rigo: I already see this concept about the silo that one owns 07:33:21 ... one the silo disappears everything change 07:33:38 john: do you want to solve today's or tomorrow's problem? 07:33:59 rigo: I want to solve today's problem with tomorrow's solution 07:34:44 andreas: ?? 07:35:09 rigo: you can make some things harder, eg. obscurity 07:35:22 ... but having a reliable one is a different story 07:35:39 ... ??? 07:36:09 discussion about enforcement of data handling with DRM on gov data 07:36:22 john: there are social, cultural changes involved, too 07:36:39 discussion whether making such secure system is possible 07:36:58 rigo: may be technically possible, but would render system unusable 07:36:59 renato: government as consumer use cases would be interesting, too 07:37:12 ... eg. consumers applying for something and making sure the info 07:37:21 ... is being kept private by gov 07:37:27 john: big piece of our concern 07:37:30 ri: user entering data like in social network, but in gov context 07:37:56 ... if public trust is about the way keeps the info 07:38:04 ??: how to express consent in gov systems to be able to share data for better service 07:38:09 s/way/way gov 07:38:11 especially personal data 07:38:21 some can be done with anon data 07:38:57 ... you need to share that info between departments, taxes, social security 07:39:11 ... you need to introduce the concept of citizen consent 07:39:25 ... the citizen consents the gov to use it to provide him a better service 07:39:56 @@: in Germany there's the concept where every agency needs to ask the citizen for 07:40:09 ... permission to use it@@@ 07:40:11 s/@@/Jan Schallaböck/ 07:40:19 martin: in NL the case is the opposite 07:40:50 martin: digital id, SMS via mobile 07:41:01 ... we have identified two levels related to eID: user/pwd and SMS sent to your mobile 07:41:08 ... depending on the kind of transaction 07:41:21 rigo: we discussed that yesterday, ENISA wants to have an ontology 07:41:35 ... on security levels, which is arbitrary at the beginning 07:41:46 ... and people define as they go 07:42:06 ... they want to define some protocols at the beginning 07:42:32 ... so you could identify the security levels at the beginning and ?? 07:43:05 ... this is a discussion that will happen no matter the security level 07:43:13 ... ??? 07:43:43 JS: common criteria already provides levels of security 07:44:23 js: that's the kind of stuff I'd like to see in govs 07:44:42 ... if a guy is in charge and the only one with permission to access the data 07:44:48 ... I wouldn't like to see other accessing it 07:44:56 ...identify first the object of audit 07:45:30 rigo: with common criteria auditing, we could transform the population of China into 07:45:36 ... ISO @@ consultants 07:45:51 martin : in the NL the IDs are developed in open software 07:45:53 ... issue with common criteria is that it does not scale, it's impractical 07:46:55 s/NL the IDs/NL the software to handle login by IDs/ 07:46:57 john: there's one more issue I'd like to draw 07:47:20 ... ?? initiative about property rights ??? 07:47:28 DRM 07:47:47 ... even basic data sets could be an aggregration of various properties 07:48:02 ... and have to make the reusable on the Web 07:48:12 renato: I agree 07:48:46 john: then you can have the government use CC like in NL, NZ 07:49:33 ... we have something similar but need to go beyond given our needs 07:49:42 ... we are using RDF and RDFa for that 07:50:02 martin: CC needs to be translated into NL if we want to use it 07:50:36 s/NL/duth legal framework/ 07:50:43 rigo: I face this issue about the translation before in Germany, too 07:51:36 ... issues about the attribution, who writes, who translates... 07:52:16 renato: you mentioned UK government about what's missing, some document available? 07:52:56 john: the underlying license we have seems to be better for the lawyers that are examining it 07:53:16 ... presentation of CC is ok, but the underlying license we have seems o be much better 07:53:59 go adapt CC UK, had the same issue with GPLv3 and addressed with them 07:54:04 was JS 07:54:30 John: where we license for free, we have a comprehensive before CC was issued 07:55:09 ...now who is supposed to follow who? 07:55:31 ...can start by linking licensing stuff with ontology 07:56:04 ....IP issue of third party rights, from re-use perspective has to take that into account 07:57:05 rigo: with the labeling framework we have in mind this is something you could do?? 07:57:16 John: the use of RDFa might solve these problems 07:57:20 ..using RDFa in semi automated structure, testing if combinantion of data creates new data base rights 07:57:27 ... eg. using RDFa to describe the license of this and that part of a given doucument 07:58:00 rigo: one of my concerns is why is everybody following the CC wagon? even W3C 07:58:22 ... because it makes people's life easier to understand the basic text and not thousands of lines 07:58:47 renato: and they only offer a few of those with names that are easy to identify ?? 07:59:23 jan: they still own the trademark, they have the updating process and ??? 08:00:21 john: licensing system for the public sector have to permit commercial reuse, this is very important 08:00:42 ... because if not the PSI sector would die ???? 08:01:39 rigo: if you take geolocation as example, in US you pay say $10 for using it 08:02:01 in EU you fly over and photograph again 08:03:29 renato: great conversation, hope useful for both groups, let's keep in touch and share info 08:03:35 [mini break] 08:03:36 caribou has left #egov 08:03:44 rrsagent, pointer? 08:03:44 See http://www.w3.org/2008/10/24-egov-irc#T08-03-44 08:04:16 -trond 08:05:44 topic: plan, deliverables and specific use cases 08:06:29 john: let's start with the most interesting use cases so far 08:06:39 ... policy with respect to data sharing 08:06:45 ... and property rights expression 08:07:16 ... also something around "your Web site is your API" 08:07:31 ... ways for people to reuse data and enable data reuse 08:08:23 ... something which is more a policy issue is what kind of framework gov might have to make decissions 08:08:33 .. about what data should be released and how 08:09:12 q? 08:09:16 ... another one on participation of public officials in social media and in C2C conversations 08:09:42 jose : discuss these cases before going into detail with policy or technology 08:10:53 martin: add identification and authentication issue there 08:11:58 beng: also about the different levels of "visibility" of the data and how a citizen can communicate information and if that can be reusable or not ?? 08:12:44 john: 1) G2G data sharing 08:13:03 ... 2) "your Web site is you API" 08:13:43 ... 3) licensing rights expression to enable reuse 08:14:03 ... 4) what government data does the Web need? 08:14:10 ... eg: mapping 08:14:31 ... how do make that decision and what business models you should use? 08:14:50 beng: how do you envision the contribution of the Group in this area? 08:15:05 john: take a step back, see what's out there and how 08:15:21 martin: eg. do you want to rely on Google mahsups for such an information? 08:15:35 ... very simple question, maybe difficult to answer 08:16:21 ... and government agencies have better mapping info 08:16:31 john: 5) participation in social media 08:16:50 ... 6) identification and authentication 08:18:07 beng: aggregation but also timing, until when you'd be able to use it 08:18:20 martin: ?? 08:18:51 s/aggregation/ 7) aggregation 08:19:56 oscar: long term archiving, there are different requirements in the physical archives world 08:20:31 ... in the digital world there are differences, but you need to look into the challenges 08:21:00 ... should I encrypt? until what extent? until when that digital signature will last? etc. 08:21:35 martin: we should add the migration from hard copy to digital 08:21:43 ... to that case 08:22:22 john: 8) digital preservation 08:23:19 beng: and you must be able to destroy info when law says that 08:23:21 ?? 08:24:38 john: paper world also has the single place storage and ??? 08:25:13 martin: that's the 3rd item, maybe not significant for eArchiving ???? 08:26:51 john: census data in the UK every ten years 08:27:06 ... but only released every 100 years 08:27:26 ... if we had to digitize we'd need loads of money because the data is so big 08:27:48 ... how this could work in the future? 08:28:13 ... digital continuity project is about middle distance, eg. ensure you could get the info in 15 years from today 08:29:16 ... also the issue of autheticity is of importance, still open questions 08:29:43 oscar: maybe we can ask the XML DSig people? 08:30:32 martin: issue I have is that stuff made this way seems to be done 08:31:01 ... for instant use, may be broken in the near future ????? 08:31:17 oscar: issue I see is that we are doubling the number of bytes every year 08:31:40 martin: you need to have a new signature attached before the old one expires 08:31:46 darobin has joined #egov 08:32:24 jose : many EU govs are archiving their documents in proprietory formats 08:32:39 ... in spain you as a citizen have a right to communicate with the gov in any format you want 08:32:48 .. you can send a word doc digitally signed they need to archive 08:32:56 ... and they cannont touch the doc 08:33:04 martin : can they print it out ? 08:33:09 oscar : the what happens to the signature 08:33:23 jose : no real answer yet 08:35:34 You may like to think: http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/electronicrecords/digitalcontinuity/default.htm 08:35:51 not think, see 08:36:09 zakim, esterel has oscar, john, renke, martin, beng, ralph 08:36:09 +oscar, john, renke, martin, beng, ralph; got it 08:36:23 zakim, klaus has entered esterel 08:36:23 +klaus; got it 08:36:56 q+ for a question on signatures 08:37:38 john: government does not keep emails for long 08:37:51 ... some may be trivial, but some may be very useful 08:38:08 .. eg. to understand the social networks public servant have 08:38:23 ... how the relate, and I could do network analysis and improve my business 08:38:45 martin: exactly the answer why you should not convert a Word doc into PDF and just store the PDF one 08:38:55 ... there are historical aspects involved 08:39:37 ... I'm interested in digital workflow of the docs 08:40:25 ack be 08:40:26 BeNg, you wanted to discuss a question on signatures 08:40:48 beng: how are the documents re-sign? 08:40:51 q- 08:41:17 martin: both things separate and renew of signature ?? 08:41:32 s/documents/documents are 08:43:01 [discussion is leading to trust again] 08:43:32 john: you can scope the size of conspiracy you need 08:43:36 ... in the digital world 08:43:46 ... spread the info to as many places as needed 08:43:59 ... and inject that info here and there 08:44:29 beng: but if it's sensitive data you might not want to have millions of people getting that data 08:45:54 john: authenticity is for good while sensitivity degrades over time 08:47:16 martin: there are many aspects around this that need to be looked into 08:47:32 ... we need to conclude this is a big concern, and we don't have the solutions 08:47:44 ... we need to raise this with other Groups 08:48:07 john: I think I can also commit my organization to produce a first draft for the Group to discuss 08:48:22 ... it touches on our core business 08:50:10 [BREAK] 09:11:26 Rinke has joined #egov 09:39:01 [BREAK is over] 09:41:01 scribeNick: mamol 09:42:17 rrsagent, draft minutes 09:42:17 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/24-egov-minutes.html josema 09:42:51 scribe: martin 09:43:18 the link http://www.forumstandaardisatie.nl/fileadmin/OVOS/Exploring_authentication__EN.pdf 09:46:25 zakim, who's here? 09:46:25 On the phone I see Esterel 09:46:26 Esterel has oscar, john, renke, martin, beng, ralph, klaus 09:46:28 On IRC I see Rinke, darobin, Vagner-br, BeNg, mamol, john, RRSAgent, Zakim, josema, kjetil, trackbot 09:46:29 We have a similar system in the UK: http://www.gateway.gov.uk/ 09:48:21 [topic areas on starting flipchart: http://www.w3.org/2008/10/eGov_flipchart_start.jpg] 09:49:58 [taking up 7. Identification and Authentication (G2C)] 09:50:11 topic: discussion of big topic areas 09:50:26 issue that we have authentication systems for government interaction, but not for other web transactions 09:54:43 [attendants to focus on discussion, scribing will be more summarized] 09:57:09 [actions to show what is solved and what is not] 09:57:22 [from the government point of view] 10:03:40 RESOLVED: 7. Identification and Authentication (G2C) to capture how it's working right now and how the complex problems related to G2G data sharing work to deliver a seamless authentication experience to the citizen 10:03:46 different problems for businesses... 10:04:02 OCR has joined #egov 10:05:19 ACTION: martin to elaborate on what exists wrt 7. Identification and Authentication (G2C) 10:05:19 Created ACTION-15 - Elaborate on what exists wrt 7. Identification and Authentication (G2C) [on Martin Mollema - due 2008-10-31]. 10:06:07 [taking up 8. Data Aggregation and Temporal Degradation (G2G)] 10:07:50 [discussion on how the government guarantees the citizen how the data is stored and shared] 10:11:08 [also about eVoting and some flaws in systems] 10:13:04 On electronic voting: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FhMUtzOxjJY 10:13:30 titled "the American voting system HACKED" 10:13:53 [eVoting as an example in this topic area] 10:17:39 [there might be a need to build some systems thinking from the beginning in non-retrivable information] 10:22:56 [should we divide into two and add temporal degradation to digital preservation?] 10:23:02 [all agree] 10:25:17 RESOLUTION: 7. Identification and Authentication (G2C) to capture how it's working right now and how the complex problems related to G2G data sharing work to deliver a seamless authentication experience to the citizen 10:26:55 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/24-egov-minutes.html josema 10:27:35 scribeNick: josema 10:27:39 scribe: josema 10:34:17 RESOLUTION: move temporal degradation from 8. to 5. digital preservation 10:35:25 [some discussion about rewriting story] 10:36:09 [we need something about temporal change of data, different from degradation] 10:37:47 RESOLUTION: add 12. Temporal Data: legislation/legal and geospatial 10:43:37 ACTION beng to find use case on eVoting to illustrate 8. Data Aggregation 10:43:37 Sorry, couldn't find user - beng 10:43:45 ACTION benjamin to find use case on eVoting to illustrate 8. Data Aggregation 10:43:45 Created ACTION-16 - Find use case on eVoting to illustrate 8. Data Aggregation [on Benjamin Nguyen - due 2008-10-31]. 10:49:47 [some topic don't need much discussion now, since they were discussed yesterday and it's on the record] 10:50:15 [in some cases we'll need to raise the issues and not show solutions yet] 10:52:12 [need to find route for SEMIC.EU to provide 1. Semantic Interoperability] 10:54:12 [some people in the Group are also interested in helping with this, but no present, ask in next call] 10:56:26 [3 is quite related to 9] 10:59:36 [for 9. and data mashups in general see http://www.w3.org/2007/eGov/IG/faq#q9] 11:04:23 Vagner-br has left #egov 11:06:10 [LUNCH] 11:54:28 Rinke has joined #egov 12:01:06 rrsagent, pointer? 12:01:06 See http://www.w3.org/2008/10/24-egov-irc#T12-01-06 12:05:53 darobin has joined #egov 12:10:00 OCR has joined #egov 12:16:04 Before we resume, you might like to see: http://www.civilservicenetwork.com/news/article.html?tx_ttnews[tt_news]=56852&tx_ttnews[backPid]=20&cHash=21d372ab2a 12:19:40 zakim, who's here 12:19:40 josema, you need to end that query with '?' 12:19:44 zakim, who's here? 12:19:44 On the phone I see Esterel 12:19:45 Esterel has oscar, john, renke, martin, beng, ralph, klaus 12:19:46 On IRC I see OCR, darobin, Rinke, BeNg, mamol, john, RRSAgent, Zakim, josema, kjetil, trackbot 12:19:52 renke left esterel 12:20:00 zakim, renke left esterel 12:20:00 -renke; got it 12:20:14 zakim, ralph left esterel 12:20:14 -ralph; got it 12:20:19 zakim, klaus left esterel 12:20:19 -klaus; got it 12:20:40 zakim, esterel has karen 12:20:41 +karen; got it 12:20:49 zakim, who's here? 12:20:49 On the phone I see Esterel 12:20:53 Esterel has karen 12:20:55 On IRC I see OCR, darobin, Rinke, BeNg, mamol, john, RRSAgent, Zakim, josema, kjetil, trackbot 12:22:06 Vagner-br has joined #egov 12:23:17 perfect 12:23:36 s/perfect// 12:31:52 ACTION: jose to find route for SEMIC.EU to be engaged in the IG and provide cases for 1. Semantic Interoperability 12:31:52 Sorry, couldn't find user - jose 12:32:01 ACTION: josema to find route for SEMIC.EU to be engaged in the IG and provide cases for 1. Semantic Interoperability 12:32:01 Sorry, couldn't find user - josema 12:33:32 [ACTION was not recorded by trackbot, but by RRSAgent] 12:34:10 ACTION: john to find use case to illustrate 2. Persistent URIs 12:34:10 Sorry, amibiguous username (more than one match) - john 12:34:10 Try using a different identifier, such as family name or username (eg. jwonderl, jsherida) 12:34:20 ACTION: jsherida to find use case to illustrate 2. Persistent URIs 12:34:20 Created ACTION-17 - Find use case to illustrate 2. Persistent URIs [on John Sheridan - due 2008-10-31]. 12:35:19 ACTION oscar to find use case for number 9. your web site is your API 12:35:19 Created ACTION-18 - Find use case for number 9. your web site is your API [on Oscar Azanon Esteire - due 2008-10-31]. 12:35:25 ACTION martin to find use case for number 9. your web site is your API 12:35:25 Created ACTION-19 - Find use case for number 9. your web site is your API [on Martin Mollema - due 2008-10-31]. 12:35:40 ACTION john to help with use case for number 9. your web site is your API 12:35:40 Sorry, amibiguous username (more than one match) - john 12:35:40 Try using a different identifier, such as family name or username (eg. jwonderl, jsherida) 12:35:47 ACTION jsherida to help with use case for number 9. your web site is your API 12:35:47 Created ACTION-20 - Help with use case for number 9. your web site is your API [on John Sheridan - due 2008-10-31]. 12:36:31 [no ACTION yet for 2. Data Sharing Policy Expression] 12:36:56 s/2./4. 12:38:24 ACTION: john to find people within the organization to build use case to illustrate 5. Digital Preservation + Authenticity + Temporal Degradation 12:38:24 Sorry, amibiguous username (more than one match) - john 12:38:24 Try using a different identifier, such as family name or username (eg. jwonderl, jsherida) 12:38:35 ACTION: jsherida to find people within the organization to build use case to illustrate 5. Digital Preservation + Authenticity + Temporal Degradation 12:38:35 Created ACTION-21 - Find people within the organization to build use case to illustrate 5. Digital Preservation + Authenticity + Temporal Degradation [on John Sheridan - due 2008-10-31]. 12:41:35 ACTION: unassigned to find use case on 6. I.P. Expression unassigned 12:41:39 Created ACTION-22 - Find use case on 6. I.P. Expression unassigned [on Unassigned - due 2008-10-31]. 12:41:52 s/[no ACTION yet for 2. Data Sharing Policy Expression]// 12:42:07 ACTION: unassigned to [no ACTION yet for 2. Data Sharing Policy Expression] 12:42:08 Created ACTION-23 - [no ACTION yet for 2. Data Sharing Policy Expression] [on Unassigned - due 2008-10-31]. 12:42:22 Karen has joined #egov 12:44:46 [should we use the TF structure?] 12:46:12 mamol has joined #egov 12:46:34 ACTION: oscar to Elaborate on what exists wrt 7. Identification and Authentication (G2C) 12:46:34 Created ACTION-24 - Elaborate on what exists wrt 7. Identification and Authentication (G2C) [on Oscar Azanon Esteire - due 2008-10-31]. 12:49:35 test 12:50:00 On RDFa you may like to see: http://www.talis.com/nodalities/ and check out the article "Call to arms" 12:50:36 ACTION: unassigned to 10. What Data? How does the Government Decide 12:50:36 Created ACTION-25 - 10. What Data? How does the Government Decide [on Unassigned - due 2008-10-31]. 12:51:48 Martin has contacted IDABC to check whether RDFA might be a useful addition to the research currently undertaken on Open Document Exchange Formats, which primarily focused on comparison of ODF and OOXML 12:52:03 ACTION: unassigned to 11. Participation in Social Media (what are the rules?) 12:52:03