IRC log of au on 2008-10-24

Timestamps are in UTC.

07:18:20 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #au
07:18:20 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/10/24-au-irc
07:18:29 [JR]
Zakim, this will be AUWG
07:18:29 [Zakim]
ok, JR; I see WAI_AUWG()2:00AM scheduled to start 78 minutes ago
07:18:50 [JR]
Meeting: WAI AU
07:19:28 [JR]
Agenda: http://www.w3.org/WAI/AU/2008/10f2f#Agenda
07:19:52 [JR]
Chair: Jan Richards (on-site)
07:28:59 [jeanne]
jeanne has joined #au
07:29:10 [jeanne]
zakim, call room_138
07:29:10 [Zakim]
ok, jeanne; the call is being made
07:29:11 [Zakim]
WAI_AUWG()2:00AM has now started
07:29:13 [Zakim]
+Room_138
07:32:31 [jeanne]
meeting: WAI AUWG F2F D2
07:32:47 [Zakim]
+AnnM
07:32:57 [jeanne]
chair: Jutta(phone) and Jan(on site)
07:33:11 [AnnM]
AnnM has joined #au
07:34:18 [jeanne]
zakim, room_138 has Jan_Richards, Jeanne_Spellman, Andrew_Ronksley, Sally_Cain(observing)
07:34:18 [Zakim]
+Jan_Richards, Jeanne_Spellman, Andrew_Ronksley, Sally_Cain(observing); got it
07:35:37 [jeanne]
present: Ann_McMeekin, Jutta_Treviranus, Jan_Richards, Jeanne_Spellman, Andrew_Ronksley, Sally_Cain(observing)
07:42:15 [Zakim]
+??P9
07:42:35 [AndrewR]
AndrewR has joined #au
07:43:09 [jeanne]
lastest version: http://www.w3.org/WAI/AU/2008/WD-ATAG20-20081024/WD-ATAG20-20081024
07:44:05 [jeanne]
present+ Reed_Shaffner
07:46:32 [AndrewR]
Scribe: Andrew
07:46:50 [jeanne]
scribe:AndrewR
07:47:43 [jtrevir]
jtrevir has joined #au
07:47:57 [jeanne]
Topic:Part B Walk-through
07:48:13 [jeanne]
s/Topic:Part B Walk-through/
07:48:21 [AndrewR]
Topic: Tooling for WAI-ARIA (Sally Cain)
07:48:35 [Reed]
Reed has joined #au
07:48:44 [AndrewR]
one vendor is working on ARIA
07:48:51 [AndrewR]
nothing available at the moment
07:49:07 [AndrewR]
browser development tools are WCAG 1 focussed at minuted
07:49:15 [AndrewR]
targeting IE / FF at present
07:49:24 [AndrewR]
not much for other browsers
07:50:35 [AndrewR]
ARIA is not always a simple yes / no answer for pass and fail
07:51:06 [AndrewR]
ARIA roles and properties are not supported at present in the validaotors
07:51:39 [AndrewR]
strategies - enhancing Firebug for ARIA
07:52:12 [AndrewR]
JS - have you discussed anything with the Eclipse group?
07:52:32 [AndrewR]
Eclipse Accprobe
07:53:01 [AndrewR]
http://www.eclipse.org/actf/downloads/tools/accprobe/index.php
07:54:16 [AndrewR]
JR - would be good to work together to work on how tools can help to prompt for roles / states etc
07:56:25 [AndrewR]
Topic: Part B
07:56:52 [AndrewR]
Topic: Guideline B.1.1 Support Web content technologies that enable the creation of content that is accessible.
08:01:42 [jeanne]
zakim, who's here
08:01:42 [Zakim]
jeanne, you need to end that query with '?'
08:01:50 [jeanne]
zakim, who's here?
08:01:50 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Room_138, AnnM, ??P9
08:01:51 [Zakim]
Room_138 has Jan_Richards, Jeanne_Spellman, Andrew_Ronksley, Sally_Cain(observing)
08:01:52 [Zakim]
On IRC I see Reed, jtrevir, AndrewR, AnnM, jeanne, RRSAgent, Zakim, JR, SallyC, trackbot
08:03:23 [AndrewR]
Topic: Guideline B.1.2 Ensure that the authoring tool preserves accessibility information.
08:08:02 [jeanne]
zakim, ??P9 is really jtrevir
08:08:02 [Zakim]
+jtrevir; got it
08:08:15 [AndrewR]
Reed - from a usability point of view you don't want to save something on the users computer where they may not find it
08:08:49 [AndrewR]
Reed - what if the content is something beyond just text?
08:09:10 [jeanne]
B.1.2.1.(c) I would like to see the addition of requiring that the most accessible action is the default action.
08:09:37 [AndrewR]
Reed - for some things such as text, adding it as a comment is fine
08:09:56 [AndrewR]
Reed - for somthing like style relations, it becomes more complex
08:11:39 [AndrewR]
Reed - the author needs to be aware if they are going to lose info
08:13:57 [AndrewR]
Reed - what is the appropriate level people should be notified at?
08:14:07 [AndrewR]
the whole document or element level etc
08:14:14 [AndrewR]
JS - that's a vendor choice
08:14:47 [Zakim]
-Room_138
08:16:35 [Reed]
the phone shut off sorry
08:16:38 [Reed]
it got unplugged
08:16:43 [jeanne]
zakim, call room_138
08:16:43 [Zakim]
ok, jeanne; the call is being made
08:16:45 [Zakim]
+Room_138
08:17:08 [AnnM]
welcome call
08:17:17 [AnnM]
welcome back even
08:19:39 [AndrewR]
breaking this into 2 seperate guidelines
08:19:52 [AndrewR]
what to do if the technology can preserve the accessibility inffo
08:20:09 [AndrewR]
and what to do if the technology can't preserve the accessibility info
08:28:33 [AndrewR]
Reed - what is the appropriate level for this?
08:28:53 [AndrewR]
Reed - technically it's hard
08:29:06 [AndrewR]
Reed - would be harsh to inlcude this at level A
08:29:16 [AndrewR]
JS - what's our use case for this guideline?
08:29:40 [AndrewR]
JS - a likely one is translating an MP4 into AVI or SMIL etc
08:29:51 [AndrewR]
JS - what would you do with the caption track?
08:30:04 [AndrewR]
JS - are you required to keep that track and what do you do with it?
08:35:23 [AndrewR]
looking at the options
09:11:30 [JR]
B.1.2.1 Target Preserves Accessibility Information (Level A): If the target technology of the transformation or conversion can preserve *recognized* accessibility information that is required for that content to conform to WCAG Level A, then the accessibility information is preserved and available for end users in the resulting content. (Level A)
09:11:31 [JR]
B.1.2.1 Target Cannot Preserve Accessibility Information: If the target technology of the transformation or conversion cannot preserve *recognized* accessibility information that is required for that content to conform to WCAG Level A, then the authoring tool (Level A):
09:11:33 [JR]
- provides the author with the option to retain the information in another way if possible (e.g., as a "comment", by saving a backup copy) and
09:11:34 [JR]
- authors are notified that this will result in accessibility problems in the target.
09:12:00 [jeanne]
Issue: Look at detailed techniques for B.1.2.1 & 2 (at all levels)
09:12:47 [trackbot]
Created ISSUE-169 - Look at detailed techniques for B.1.2.1 & 2 (at all levels) ; please complete additional details at http://www.w3.org/WAI/AU/tracker/issues/169/edit .
09:12:54 [jeanne]
action: JS to draft Technique use cases for video associated with B.1.2.1 & 2 Issue-169
09:12:58 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-31 - Draft Technique use cases for video associated with B.1.2.1 & 2 Issue-169 [on Jeanne Spellman - due 2008-10-31].
09:13:03 [AnnM]
suggestion of slight reword for second bullet, for readability - notifies the author that this will result in accessibility problems in the target
09:17:21 [JR]
B.1.2.1 Target Cannot Preserve Accessibility Information: If the target technology of the transformation or conversion cannot preserve *recognized* accessibility information that is required for that content to conform to WCAG Level A, then the authoring tool (Level A):
09:17:23 [JR]
- provides the author with the option to retain the information in another way if possible (e.g., as a "comment", by saving a backup copy) and
09:17:24 [JR]
- notifies the author that this will result in accessibility problems in the target.
09:20:16 [JR]
Action JR: Look at B.1.2.3 Notification Prior to Deletion
09:20:18 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-32 - Look at B.1.2.3 Notification Prior to Deletion [on Jan Richards - due 2008-10-31].
09:21:15 [JR]
Action JR: Look at B.1.2 Applicability Notes
09:21:16 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-33 - Look at B.1.2 Applicability Notes [on Jan Richards - due 2008-10-31].
09:21:41 [AndrewR]
Topic: Guideline B.1.3 Ensure that automatically generated content is accessible.
09:28:06 [JR]
publishing
09:28:07 [JR]
The point at which authors or the authoring tool make content available to end users (e.g., uploading a Web page, committing a change in a wiki).
09:28:09 [JR]
B.1.2.1 Target Preserves Accessibility Information (Level A): If the target technology of the transformation or conversion can preserve *recognized* accessibility information that is required for that content to conform to WCAG Level A, then the accessibility information is preserved and available for end users in the resulting content. (Level A)
09:28:56 [AndrewR]
Reed - as long as the tool does it at some point it's fine
09:29:09 [AndrewR]
Reed - we shouldn't really define when the tool should do it
09:29:52 [JR]
B.1.3.1 Automatic Accessible (Level A): If the authoring tool automatically generates content, then that content meets WCAG Level A prior to *publishing*.
09:32:59 [JR]
Action JR: Level A->Minimum, Level AA->??, Level AAA->???
09:33:06 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-34 - Level A->Minimum, Level AA->??, Level AAA->??? [on Jan Richards - due 2008-10-31].
09:34:08 [AndrewR]
Topic: PRINCIPLE B.2: Authors must be supported in the production of accessible content
09:34:18 [AndrewR]
applicability notes are a bit in limbo
09:34:26 [AndrewR]
Topic: Guideline B.2.1 Guide authors to create accessible content.
09:38:22 [AndrewR]
JS - do we need the word "always" in "If an authoring action or instruction will always lead"
09:38:44 [AndrewR]
Reed - excessive prompting will produce a poor user experience
09:39:02 [AndrewR]
JS - one warning per authoring session?
09:39:20 [AndrewR]
JR - can see it working with a set of instructions
09:39:28 [AndrewR]
e.g. inserting an image instructions
09:40:03 [AndrewR]
JR - we're getting quite low level here
09:42:23 [AndrewR]
Reed - "cannot be made to meet" is easy to get around
09:42:32 [AndrewR]
JS - "cannot meet" is better
09:43:01 [AndrewR]
JR - cannot check a whole calendar widget and say "fix that"
09:51:09 [AndrewR]
Reed - is this going to be testable?
09:51:17 [AndrewR]
JR - getting quite fuzzy here
09:51:32 [AndrewR]
Reed - do i have to flag for everything that might not meet "A"?
09:59:21 [AndrewR]
Reed - checkers don't have to run at the end
09:59:32 [AndrewR]
Reed - they can be checking all the time
10:01:10 [JR]
See also: For more information on how to prompt, see ATAG 2.0 Techniques - Appendix A: Prompting for Different Types of Accessibility Information. Repair features (see Guidelin B.2.3) are also an important aspect of author guidance.
10:03:17 [Zakim]
-AnnM
10:03:58 [Reed]
Zakim, what is the meaning of life?
10:03:58 [Zakim]
I don't understand your question, Reed.
10:08:09 [AndrewR]
Topic: Guideline B.2.2 Assist authors in checking for accessibility problems.
10:10:58 [AndrewR]
JR - for automated tools having line numbers would be good
10:11:16 [AndrewR]
JR - having something to click on to take you there would be great
10:11:32 [AndrewR]
JS - what are we trying to accomplish with this one?
10:13:08 [AndrewR]
We're just trying to help authors locate things
10:13:12 [JR]
B.2.2.3 Help authors locate:
10:23:36 [jeanne]
... the author must be given sufficient information to identify the problem (e.g. display the content in situ, display image)/\.
10:32:46 [AndrewR]
JS - is an alternative page provided? Is a sign language alternative provided?
10:33:13 [JR]
B.2.2.3 Help Authors Locate: For any checks that require author judgment to determine whether a potential accessibility problem is correctly identified (i.e., manual checking and semi-automated checking), the relevant content is identified (e.g., displaying the surrounding text, "Is a sign lanuage interpreation provided?")
10:37:49 [Zakim]
-jtrevir
10:38:45 [Zakim]
+??P0
10:39:30 [jeanne]
zakim, ??P0 is really jtrevir
10:39:30 [Zakim]
+jtrevir; got it
10:42:55 [AndrewR]
JS - we need to make it clear that this can be done with an outside tool
10:43:05 [AndrewR]
as part of the "authoring system"
10:53:03 [Zakim]
-jtrevir
12:03:10 [AndrewR]
Andrew Arch (W3C) joins for an overview of WAI-AGE
12:07:13 [Reed]
zakim, who's there?
12:07:13 [Zakim]
I don't understand your question, Reed.
12:07:23 [jeanne]
zakim, who's here
12:07:23 [Zakim]
jeanne, you need to end that query with '?'
12:07:31 [amj]
amj has joined #au
12:07:57 [rshaffne]
rshaffne has joined #au
12:08:05 [rshaffne]
zakim, what's the meaning of life?
12:08:05 [Zakim]
I don't understand your question, rshaffne.
12:08:13 [rshaffne]
zakim, easter eggs?
12:08:13 [Zakim]
I don't understand your question, rshaffne.
12:08:18 [jeanne]
zakim, who's here?
12:08:18 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Room_138
12:08:19 [Zakim]
Room_138 has Jan_Richards, Jeanne_Spellman, Andrew_Ronksley, Sally_Cain(observing)
12:08:20 [Zakim]
On IRC I see rshaffne, amj, AndrewR, jeanne, RRSAgent, Zakim, JR, SallyC, trackbot
12:08:22 [rshaffne]
zakim, who are you?
12:08:22 [Zakim]
I don't understand your question, rshaffne.
12:08:23 [JR]
zakim, who's your daddy?
12:08:23 [Zakim]
Ralph is taking good care of me but you all are my family, JR
12:08:37 [rshaffne]
zakim, who's your mommy?
12:08:37 [Zakim]
I don't understand your question, rshaffne.
12:08:51 [jeanne]
zakim, room_138 now has Reed_Shaffner
12:08:51 [Zakim]
+Reed_Shaffner; got it
12:09:05 [jeanne]
zakim, who's here?
12:09:05 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Room_138
12:09:06 [Zakim]
Room_138 has Reed_Shaffner
12:09:07 [Zakim]
On IRC I see rshaffne, amj, AndrewR, jeanne, RRSAgent, Zakim, JR, SallyC, trackbot
12:10:03 [jeanne]
zakim, room_138 also has Jan_Richards, Jeanne_Spellman, Andrew_Ronksley, Sally_Cain(observing)
12:10:03 [Zakim]
+Jan_Richards, Jeanne_Spellman, Andrew_Ronksley, Sally_Cain(observing); got it
12:10:08 [jeanne]
zakim, who's here?
12:10:08 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Room_138
12:10:09 [Zakim]
Room_138 has Reed_Shaffner, Jan_Richards, Jeanne_Spellman, Andrew_Ronksley, Sally_Cain(observing)
12:10:12 [Zakim]
On IRC I see rshaffne, amj, AndrewR, jeanne, RRSAgent, Zakim, JR, SallyC, trackbot
12:10:58 [jeanne]
AA: Did a large literature review of what older people do on-line. There are many things we can learn from these studies in other parts of WAI.
12:11:09 [jeanne]
... the complexity of the user agent.
12:11:30 [jeanne]
...how to increase the font size
12:11:55 [JR]
JR has joined #au
12:12:06 [jeanne]
...the declining ability for fine motor control.
12:13:10 [jeanne]
...making things easier to activate and control - like buttons and scroll bars.
12:13:45 [jeanne]
AA: the retirement age is rising or becoming arbitrary, so more older workers are staying in the workplace.
12:14:21 [jeanne]
AA:The accessibility of Content Management Systems is key as the web becomes more and more 2-way.
12:15:11 [jeanne]
AA: What most people have identified as requirements of Ageing are covered by WCAG, but mostly in the advisory techniques.
12:16:19 [jeanne]
...contrast between colors significantly deteriorates.
12:16:52 [jeanne]
RS: We have to be careful, because some bright colors help some conditions and not others.
12:17:02 [JR]
RS: Our research show older people shun AT's when they are associated with disability
12:17:16 [JR]
SC: Agree
12:17:40 [JR]
RS: There can be social stigma around disability
12:17:56 [JR]
RS: What are we doing about wording "disability"...
12:18:17 [JR]
AA: Part of scope is awareness of overlap...especially among support agencies
12:18:46 [JR]
AA: No studies on training talking about adaptive strategies...closest is go to store and try different mouse
12:19:21 [JR]
RS: So little definitive research in this area....need to be careful when setting standards in this area
12:19:42 [JR]
SC: THis is why I'm excited about personalization
12:20:02 [JR]
JS: Actually research is there...but locked up in corporate
12:20:20 [JR]
AA: Some of it....but there are some universities working in this area.
12:20:46 [JR]
AA: Amount of research in journals now is increasing significantly - likely to be definitive things in 5 yrs
12:21:22 [JR]
RS: We at MS have some data but not by age
12:21:39 [JR]
JS: I worked at a place that was doing really good stuff
12:21:52 [JR]
AA: RNIB did some good work on vision decline
12:22:12 [amj]
http://www.w3.org/TR/2008/WD-wai-age-literature-20080514/#what
12:22:43 [JR]
RS: Never should be standard UI
12:23:03 [JR]
JS: Right...but also ability to change not only appearance but less complexity
12:23:09 [JR]
RS: But what does simpler mean?
12:23:37 [JR]
AA: Work in browser...what do I need to browse vs. do other things the Web does
12:23:50 [JR]
AA: Haven't seen definitive stuff on authoring tools
12:28:06 [JR]
AA: "Newer" older users don't want to change the setup
12:28:23 [JR]
AA: Even after a couple of years
12:29:08 [JR]
JR: Wrapping up....
12:29:13 [amj]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/WAI-AGE/comparative-WAI.html
12:29:19 [JR]
AA: OK We've put together this table
12:29:39 [JR]
AA: It's our initial attempt to map WAI guidelines to the Age requirements
12:29:53 [JR]
AA: We'd be keen to work with AUWG to do a double check
12:30:06 [JR]
RS: Studies cited?
12:30:13 [JR]
AA: Yes at bottom of litt review
12:30:31 [amj]
http://www.w3.org/TR/2008/WD-wai-age-literature-20080514/#refs
12:30:32 [AndrewR]
There's probably some overlap with interfaces people have been working on for people with learning disabilities using exisiting site APIs to create new "skins"
12:30:44 [AndrewR]
http://icant.co.uk/easy-youtube/
12:30:52 [AndrewR]
http://code.google.com/p/accessible-maps/
12:30:57 [JR]
AA: And if anyone has seen studies we'd be pleased to see them
12:31:40 [JR]
AR: Brings up "ethical mashups"
12:31:59 [SallyC]
http://www.softwareexpress.co.uk/
12:32:11 [JR]
AA: Sometimes hard to diff. unfamiliarity with mild cognitive impairment (forgetfulness)
12:32:46 [JR]
SC: I've just put in a link to compny that makes skins of browsers and email
12:33:47 [SallyC]
It is an application interface to the computer that includes web, email, word and any main functionality of a computer that someone would want to do.
12:35:28 [jeanne]
issue: create an Appendix on Ageing population requirements in conjunction with WAI-AGE project
12:35:29 [trackbot]
Created ISSUE-170 - Create an Appendix on Ageing population requirements in conjunction with WAI-AGE project ; please complete additional details at http://www.w3.org/WAI/AU/tracker/issues/170/edit .
12:36:27 [JR]
>http://www.w3.org/WAI/WAI-AGE/comparative-WAI.html
12:36:56 [jeanne]
action: JS to follow up with Andrew Arch on cross-over of with WAI Age document http://www.w3.org/WAI/WAI-AGE/comparative-WAI.html
12:36:56 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-35 - Follow up with Andrew Arch on cross-over of with WAI Age document http://www.w3.org/WAI/WAI-AGE/comparative-WAI.html [on Jeanne Spellman - due 2008-10-31].
12:38:53 [rshaffne]
scribe:rshaffner
12:39:00 [rshaffne]
scribe: rshaffne
12:39:03 [jeanne]
topic: Conformance
12:39:15 [jeanne]
new version: http://www.w3.org/WAI/AU/2008/WD-ATAG20-20081024/WD-ATAG20-20081024
12:41:56 [Zakim]
+??P8
12:42:36 [rshaffne]
JR: talked with archer and we may add appendix talking about aging
12:42:38 [rshaffne]
JR
12:43:12 [rshaffne]
JT: I wanted to relay that yesterday that I was at the free software symposium (open source) fairly lengthy discussion on alt text
12:43:24 [jeanne]
zakim, ??P8 is really jutta
12:43:24 [Zakim]
+jutta; got it
12:43:26 [rshaffne]
JT: resolution was that this needed to be dealt with for flikr and other uploaded images
12:44:16 [rshaffne]
JR: Html may make alt no longer required
12:44:38 [rshaffne]
JT: I was trying to relay to them that ATAG couldn't handle unless dealt with in WCAG
12:44:44 [rshaffne]
..as well
12:45:16 [rshaffne]
JR: it's not completely decided WAIs position is to make it mandatory
12:45:52 [rshaffne]
JT: we are thought to be promoting WCAG compliance, implication seems to be that we would have requirements that go beyond WCAG
12:49:32 [rshaffne]
JT: more strenuous support for alt text in the authoring tool than in the content guidelines
12:49:57 [rshaffne]
JR: do you mean automatically, or do you mean like 1000 picture dump where you shouldn't get to publish without mandatory alt contribution?
12:50:06 [jeanne]
issue: more strenuous support of alt in ATAG than in the WCAG guidelines.
12:50:06 [trackbot]
Created ISSUE-171 - More strenuous support of alt in ATAG than in the WCAG guidelines. ; please complete additional details at http://www.w3.org/WAI/AU/tracker/issues/171/edit .
12:50:08 [rshaffne]
JT: what would the UI look like that forces people to do this?
12:50:23 [rshaffne]
JT: they gave examples of other batch uploads where there was metadata requirement
12:51:04 [rshaffne]
JR: at the end if the user just wants to get pictures up, shouldn't they be able to do that?
12:51:12 [rshaffne]
JT: I agree
12:51:29 [rshaffne]
JT: the issues is the feeling that ATAG could be more strenuous than ATAG
12:51:39 [rshaffne]
JR: moving to conformance again
12:51:44 [rshaffne]
NOTE MOVING BACK TO CONFORMANCE SECTION
12:53:42 [rshaffne]
RS: we should add something to make people not liable for claims made on their behalf
12:56:45 [rshaffne]
discussing whether it is appropriate to have links everywhere
12:56:52 [rshaffne]
what is right level of conformance disclosure
12:57:05 [JR]
Whenever the claimed conformance level is published (e.g., product information website), the URI for the on-line published version of the conformance claim must be included.
12:58:29 [JR]
Claimants are solely responsible for the accuracy of their claims (including claims that include products for which they are not responsible) and keeping claims up to date.
12:59:08 [rshaffne]
Discussing required components
12:59:37 [JR]
(e.g., "Authoring Tool Accessibility Guidelines 2.0, 24 October 2008, Editor's Draft ")
13:00:54 [rshaffne]
JS: we should make the line the same about responsibility
13:01:00 [rshaffne]
JR: ok
13:01:12 [rshaffne]
Moving up section about claimants being solely responsible
13:01:24 [rshaffne]
burden is on claimant
13:01:43 [JR]
Claimants are solely responsible for the accuracy of their claims and keeping claims up to date. The burden is on the conformance claimant rather than the developer of any of the software components.
13:02:38 [Zakim]
+Tim_Boland
13:03:16 [jeanne]
rrsagent, make logs public
13:03:21 [jeanne]
rrsagent, make minutes
13:03:21 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/24-au-minutes.html jeanne
13:04:59 [JR]
(a) The ATAG 2.0 conformance level that has been satisfied (see Donformance Levels)
13:05:03 [JR]
(a) The ATAG 2.0 conformance level that has been satisfied (see Conformance Levels)
13:05:15 [rshaffne]
This is replacing a
13:05:31 [rshaffne]
JR: the only thing changing is what it in the brackets
13:05:44 [rshaffne]
JR: moving on to B
13:06:37 [rshaffne]
JS: let's slow down, we made a major change to this in July, need to amke sure it's still accurate
13:07:52 [rshaffne]
JS: don't need bullet saying need at leasst one piece of content
13:08:11 [rshaffne]
RS: does it matter if HTML and JS are used...
13:08:16 [rshaffne]
all, let's just kill both bullets
13:08:19 [rshaffne]
JR: moving onto C
13:10:09 [rshaffne]
JS: can we strike C?
13:10:22 [rshaffne]
RS: I think so
13:10:38 [rshaffne]
CS <observing>:does that mean other techs wont be listed?
13:10:39 [rshaffne]
yes
13:10:41 [rshaffne]
ok
13:10:43 [rshaffne]
REMOVED
13:10:59 [rshaffne]
JR: D is for completeness
13:11:10 [rshaffne]
RS: d is a heads up for what won't work
13:11:30 [rshaffne]
Moving to part e
13:12:14 [rshaffne]
JR: there will only be one version of WCAG
13:12:26 [rshaffne]
RS: in fact keeping it means people can site the old version
13:12:38 [JR]
provide the name and version information of the user agent(s).
13:12:40 [rshaffne]
OK, changing to just provide the name and version of the user agents
13:13:08 [rshaffne]
zakim, who's here?
13:13:08 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Room_138, jutta, Tim_Boland
13:13:09 [Zakim]
Room_138 has Reed_Shaffner, Jan_Richards, Jeanne_Spellman, Andrew_Ronksley, Sally_Cain(observing)
13:13:11 [Zakim]
On IRC I see JR, rshaffne, andrewA, AndrewR, jeanne, RRSAgent, Zakim, trackbot
13:13:37 [jtrevir]
jtrevir has joined #au
13:14:08 [rshaffne]
JR: are we OK leaving that as is?
13:14:10 [rshaffne]
yes
13:14:40 [rshaffne]
JS: wait so we didn't finish up platforms?
13:14:44 [rshaffne]
JR: yeah, is that still ok?
13:15:16 [rshaffne]
JR: we will link to examples for the accessibility platform architectures
13:18:15 [JR]
AXAPI for MacOS
13:18:41 [JR]
UA for MacOS
13:19:27 [rshaffne]
JR: can we go onto optional components?
13:20:09 [JR]
Action JR: Look into MacOS equiv of MSAA
13:20:10 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-36 - Look into MacOS equiv of MSAA [on Jan Richards - due 2008-10-31].
13:21:32 [SallyC]
SallyC has joined #au
13:21:36 [SallyC]
http://developer.apple.com/documentation/Accessibility/Conceptual/AccessibilityMacOSX/OSXAXModel/chapter_4_section_1.html
13:22:37 [rshaffne]
JS: is there a reason why normative is there?
13:22:42 [rshaffne]
JR: nope, good point
13:24:10 [rshaffne]
JS: unclear where they said they did it
13:24:17 [rshaffne]
JR: that's what implied by conformance level
13:25:41 [rshaffne]
JR: example, I complied to ATAG 2.0 Level A and therefore I met all A requirements
13:25:50 [rshaffne]
JS: they should at least have to list not applicables
13:26:04 [rshaffne]
TB: don't they have to do that today? if they don't, they should have to?
13:26:22 [rshaffne]
JR: it's there
13:26:31 [rshaffne]
JS: ok let's just move it over to conformance so they do it
13:26:53 [rshaffne]
JR: for each one they say whether they did it, or they say why it was N/A
13:27:01 [rshaffne]
JS: let's making it missing c
13:28:42 [JR]
(c) For each success criteria, a declaration of whether or not the success criterion has been satisfied or a declaration that the success criteria is not applicable to the authoring tool and a rationale for why not.
13:31:25 [rshaffne]
Jan is currently drafting up changesx
13:32:00 [jeanne2]
jeanne2 has joined #au
13:32:13 [rshaffne]
(c) For each success criteria, a declaration of whether or not the success criterion has been satisfied or a declaration that the success criteria is not applicable to the authoring tool and a rationale for why not.
13:32:19 [rshaffne]
repost for Jeanne post drop
13:32:21 [rshaffne]
no changes aboce
13:32:24 [rshaffne]
above
13:32:44 [cshelly]
cshelly has joined #au
13:32:58 [jeanne2]
(c)For each success criterion: a declaration of whether or not the success criterion has been satisfied or
13:32:58 [jeanne2]
a declaration that the success criterion is not applicable and a rationale for why not.
13:35:25 [rshaffne]
JR: remove or web content accessibility benchmark document
13:36:39 [jeanne2]
action: JS to check with W3C internal to confirm the wording of the Conformance Disclaimer section. #conf-disclaimer
13:36:39 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-37 - Check with W3C internal to confirm the wording of the Conformance Disclaimer section. #conf-disclaimer [on Jeanne Spellman - due 2008-10-31].
13:37:37 [rshaffne]
JS: I will check on it and based on what lawyers say, is everyone ok with that?
13:38:30 [rshaffne]
TB: do you have to actually identify who made the claim?
13:38:40 [rshaffne]
JS: where should it go??
13:41:22 [Zakim]
-Tim_Boland
13:52:04 [rshaffne]
zakim, who's here?
13:52:04 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Room_138, jutta
13:52:05 [Zakim]
Room_138 has Reed_Shaffner, Jan_Richards, Jeanne_Spellman, Andrew_Ronksley, Sally_Cain(observing)
13:52:08 [Zakim]
On IRC I see cshelly, jeanne2, SallyC, jtrevir, JR, rshaffne, andrewA, RRSAgent, Zakim, trackbot
13:52:18 [rshaffne]
rshaffne has joined #au
13:52:23 [rshaffne]
zakim, who's here?
13:52:23 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Room_138, jutta
13:52:24 [Zakim]
Room_138 has Reed_Shaffner, Jan_Richards, Jeanne_Spellman, Andrew_Ronksley, Sally_Cain(observing)
13:52:26 [Zakim]
On IRC I see rshaffne, cshelly, jeanne2, SallyC, jtrevir, JR, andrewA, RRSAgent, Zakim, trackbot
13:52:30 [AndrewR]
AndrewR has joined #au
13:52:33 [rshaffne]
thanks zakim
13:52:59 [rshaffne]
scribe: rshaffner
13:53:04 [rshaffne]
scribe:rshaffne
13:53:12 [rshaffne]
JR: we are back up at the tope
13:53:15 [rshaffne]
top
13:53:27 [rshaffne]
JR: we are at levels of conformance
13:55:15 [rshaffne]
RS: i like partial conformance
13:55:22 [AndrewR]
+1 for that
13:55:57 [rshaffne]
JS: I hate to just see one thing stop conformance
13:56:07 [rshaffne]
JR: but if you give a mouse a cookie..
13:56:39 [rshaffne]
JS: do we want to expand partial conformance?
13:56:47 [rshaffne]
e.g. should it not just be a or b
13:57:54 [rshaffne]
JR: let's remove the note
13:57:55 [rshaffne]
JS did
13:58:15 [rshaffne]
JR: 10min left, let's try and zip back to B2.2.3
13:58:34 [rshaffne]
Like Jutta's idea around record keeping
13:58:45 [JR]
Action JR: Proposal to add a AA recordkeeping item to B.2.2
13:58:45 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-38 - Proposal to add a AA recordkeeping item to B.2.2 [on Jan Richards - due 2008-10-31].
14:00:49 [jeanne2]
q+ to discuss the checking SC -- aren't location and advise needed in B.2.3?
14:02:35 [jeanne2]
ack jeanne
14:02:35 [Zakim]
jeanne, you wanted to discuss the checking SC -- aren't location and advise needed in B.2.3?
14:02:48 [rshaffne]
JS: we will need more specific examples for the repair section
14:03:44 [rshaffne]
JR: let's at least make some notes on what we need to do here
14:04:28 [jeanne2]
Issue: provide additional success criteria in B.2.3 on repair
14:04:28 [trackbot]
Created ISSUE-172 - Provide additional success criteria in B.2.3 on repair ; please complete additional details at http://www.w3.org/WAI/AU/tracker/issues/172/edit .
14:04:58 [jeanne2]
action: JS to draft proposal for new success criteria for B.2.3 Repair
14:04:58 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-39 - Draft proposal for new success criteria for B.2.3 Repair [on Jeanne Spellman - due 2008-10-31].
14:06:10 [JR]
Adding SC's to Repair:
14:06:12 [JR]
- Availability: Repair is available prior to publishing...
14:06:13 [JR]
- Help Authors Locate...
14:06:15 [JR]
- Help Authors Decide...
14:11:17 [jeanne2]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/AU/tracker/
14:14:36 [SallyC]
Would like to say thank you for letting me observe and participate in today's group. It has been really helpful and interesting.
14:17:45 [SallyC]
SallyC has left #au
14:18:55 [AndrewR]
AndrewR has left #au
14:28:05 [JR]
Action JT: Send (untransposed) draft with grammar edits
14:28:06 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-40 - Send (untransposed) draft with grammar edits [on Jutta Treviranus - due 2008-10-31].
14:28:12 [jeanne2]
rrsagent, make minutes
14:28:12 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/24-au-minutes.html jeanne2
14:28:28 [jeanne2]
zakim, bye
14:28:28 [Zakim]
leaving. As of this point the attendees were AnnM, Jan_Richards, Jeanne_Spellman, Andrew_Ronksley, Sally_Cain(observing), jtrevir, Room_138, Reed_Shaffner, jutta, Tim_Boland
14:28:29 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #au
14:29:10 [rshaffne]
rshaffne has joined #au
14:29:16 [rshaffne]
zakim dir
14:29:46 [jeanne2]
present+ Cynthia_Shelly
14:30:03 [jeanne2]
Present+ Andrew_Arch(0bserving)
14:30:23 [jeanne2]
rrsagent, make minutes
14:30:23 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/24-au-minutes.html jeanne2
14:31:16 [jeanne2]
scribeoptions:-final
14:31:26 [jeanne2]
rrsagent, make minutes
14:31:26 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/24-au-minutes.html jeanne2
15:10:37 [jeanne]
jeanne has joined #au
15:10:47 [jeanne]
rrsagent, bye
15:10:47 [RRSAgent]
I see 10 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/24-au-actions.rdf :
15:10:47 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: JS to draft Technique use cases for video associated with B.1.2.1 & 2 Issue-169 [1]
15:10:47 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/24-au-irc#T09-12-54
15:10:47 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: JR to Look at B.1.2.3 Notification Prior to Deletion [2]
15:10:47 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/24-au-irc#T09-20-16
15:10:47 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: JR to Look at B.1.2 Applicability Notes [3]
15:10:47 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/24-au-irc#T09-21-15
15:10:47 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: JR to Level A->Minimum, Level AA->??, Level AAA->??? [4]
15:10:47 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/24-au-irc#T09-32-59
15:10:47 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: JS to follow up with Andrew Arch on cross-over of with WAI Age document http://www.w3.org/WAI/WAI-AGE/comparative-WAI.html [5]
15:10:47 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/24-au-irc#T12-36-56
15:10:47 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: JR to Look into MacOS equiv of MSAA [6]
15:10:47 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/24-au-irc#T13-20-09
15:10:47 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: JS to check with W3C internal to confirm the wording of the Conformance Disclaimer section. #conf-disclaimer [7]
15:10:47 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/24-au-irc#T13-36-39
15:10:47 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: JR to Proposal to add a AA recordkeeping item to B.2.2 [8]
15:10:47 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/24-au-irc#T13-58-45
15:10:47 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: JS to draft proposal for new success criteria for B.2.3 Repair [9]
15:10:47 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/24-au-irc#T14-04-58
15:10:47 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: JT to Send (untransposed) draft with grammar edits [10]
15:10:47 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/24-au-irc#T14-28-05