07:18:20 RRSAgent has joined #au 07:18:20 logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/10/24-au-irc 07:18:29 Zakim, this will be AUWG 07:18:29 ok, JR; I see WAI_AUWG()2:00AM scheduled to start 78 minutes ago 07:18:50 Meeting: WAI AU 07:19:28 Agenda: http://www.w3.org/WAI/AU/2008/10f2f#Agenda 07:19:52 Chair: Jan Richards (on-site) 07:28:59 jeanne has joined #au 07:29:10 zakim, call room_138 07:29:10 ok, jeanne; the call is being made 07:29:11 WAI_AUWG()2:00AM has now started 07:29:13 +Room_138 07:32:31 meeting: WAI AUWG F2F D2 07:32:47 +AnnM 07:32:57 chair: Jutta(phone) and Jan(on site) 07:33:11 AnnM has joined #au 07:34:18 zakim, room_138 has Jan_Richards, Jeanne_Spellman, Andrew_Ronksley, Sally_Cain(observing) 07:34:18 +Jan_Richards, Jeanne_Spellman, Andrew_Ronksley, Sally_Cain(observing); got it 07:35:37 present: Ann_McMeekin, Jutta_Treviranus, Jan_Richards, Jeanne_Spellman, Andrew_Ronksley, Sally_Cain(observing) 07:42:15 +??P9 07:42:35 AndrewR has joined #au 07:43:09 lastest version: http://www.w3.org/WAI/AU/2008/WD-ATAG20-20081024/WD-ATAG20-20081024 07:44:05 present+ Reed_Shaffner 07:46:32 Scribe: Andrew 07:46:50 scribe:AndrewR 07:47:43 jtrevir has joined #au 07:47:57 Topic:Part B Walk-through 07:48:13 s/Topic:Part B Walk-through/ 07:48:21 Topic: Tooling for WAI-ARIA (Sally Cain) 07:48:35 Reed has joined #au 07:48:44 one vendor is working on ARIA 07:48:51 nothing available at the moment 07:49:07 browser development tools are WCAG 1 focussed at minuted 07:49:15 targeting IE / FF at present 07:49:24 not much for other browsers 07:50:35 ARIA is not always a simple yes / no answer for pass and fail 07:51:06 ARIA roles and properties are not supported at present in the validaotors 07:51:39 strategies - enhancing Firebug for ARIA 07:52:12 JS - have you discussed anything with the Eclipse group? 07:52:32 Eclipse Accprobe 07:53:01 http://www.eclipse.org/actf/downloads/tools/accprobe/index.php 07:54:16 JR - would be good to work together to work on how tools can help to prompt for roles / states etc 07:56:25 Topic: Part B 07:56:52 Topic: Guideline B.1.1 Support Web content technologies that enable the creation of content that is accessible. 08:01:42 zakim, who's here 08:01:42 jeanne, you need to end that query with '?' 08:01:50 zakim, who's here? 08:01:50 On the phone I see Room_138, AnnM, ??P9 08:01:51 Room_138 has Jan_Richards, Jeanne_Spellman, Andrew_Ronksley, Sally_Cain(observing) 08:01:52 On IRC I see Reed, jtrevir, AndrewR, AnnM, jeanne, RRSAgent, Zakim, JR, SallyC, trackbot 08:03:23 Topic: Guideline B.1.2 Ensure that the authoring tool preserves accessibility information. 08:08:02 zakim, ??P9 is really jtrevir 08:08:02 +jtrevir; got it 08:08:15 Reed - from a usability point of view you don't want to save something on the users computer where they may not find it 08:08:49 Reed - what if the content is something beyond just text? 08:09:10 B.1.2.1.(c) I would like to see the addition of requiring that the most accessible action is the default action. 08:09:37 Reed - for some things such as text, adding it as a comment is fine 08:09:56 Reed - for somthing like style relations, it becomes more complex 08:11:39 Reed - the author needs to be aware if they are going to lose info 08:13:57 Reed - what is the appropriate level people should be notified at? 08:14:07 the whole document or element level etc 08:14:14 JS - that's a vendor choice 08:14:47 -Room_138 08:16:35 the phone shut off sorry 08:16:38 it got unplugged 08:16:43 zakim, call room_138 08:16:43 ok, jeanne; the call is being made 08:16:45 +Room_138 08:17:08 welcome call 08:17:17 welcome back even 08:19:39 breaking this into 2 seperate guidelines 08:19:52 what to do if the technology can preserve the accessibility inffo 08:20:09 and what to do if the technology can't preserve the accessibility info 08:28:33 Reed - what is the appropriate level for this? 08:28:53 Reed - technically it's hard 08:29:06 Reed - would be harsh to inlcude this at level A 08:29:16 JS - what's our use case for this guideline? 08:29:40 JS - a likely one is translating an MP4 into AVI or SMIL etc 08:29:51 JS - what would you do with the caption track? 08:30:04 JS - are you required to keep that track and what do you do with it? 08:35:23 looking at the options 09:11:30 B.1.2.1 Target Preserves Accessibility Information (Level A): If the target technology of the transformation or conversion can preserve *recognized* accessibility information that is required for that content to conform to WCAG Level A, then the accessibility information is preserved and available for end users in the resulting content. (Level A) 09:11:31 B.1.2.1 Target Cannot Preserve Accessibility Information: If the target technology of the transformation or conversion cannot preserve *recognized* accessibility information that is required for that content to conform to WCAG Level A, then the authoring tool (Level A): 09:11:33 - provides the author with the option to retain the information in another way if possible (e.g., as a "comment", by saving a backup copy) and 09:11:34 - authors are notified that this will result in accessibility problems in the target. 09:12:00 Issue: Look at detailed techniques for B.1.2.1 & 2 (at all levels) 09:12:47 Created ISSUE-169 - Look at detailed techniques for B.1.2.1 & 2 (at all levels) ; please complete additional details at http://www.w3.org/WAI/AU/tracker/issues/169/edit . 09:12:54 action: JS to draft Technique use cases for video associated with B.1.2.1 & 2 Issue-169 09:12:58 Created ACTION-31 - Draft Technique use cases for video associated with B.1.2.1 & 2 Issue-169 [on Jeanne Spellman - due 2008-10-31]. 09:13:03 suggestion of slight reword for second bullet, for readability - notifies the author that this will result in accessibility problems in the target 09:17:21 B.1.2.1 Target Cannot Preserve Accessibility Information: If the target technology of the transformation or conversion cannot preserve *recognized* accessibility information that is required for that content to conform to WCAG Level A, then the authoring tool (Level A): 09:17:23 - provides the author with the option to retain the information in another way if possible (e.g., as a "comment", by saving a backup copy) and 09:17:24 - notifies the author that this will result in accessibility problems in the target. 09:20:16 Action JR: Look at B.1.2.3 Notification Prior to Deletion 09:20:18 Created ACTION-32 - Look at B.1.2.3 Notification Prior to Deletion [on Jan Richards - due 2008-10-31]. 09:21:15 Action JR: Look at B.1.2 Applicability Notes 09:21:16 Created ACTION-33 - Look at B.1.2 Applicability Notes [on Jan Richards - due 2008-10-31]. 09:21:41 Topic: Guideline B.1.3 Ensure that automatically generated content is accessible. 09:28:06 publishing 09:28:07 The point at which authors or the authoring tool make content available to end users (e.g., uploading a Web page, committing a change in a wiki). 09:28:09 B.1.2.1 Target Preserves Accessibility Information (Level A): If the target technology of the transformation or conversion can preserve *recognized* accessibility information that is required for that content to conform to WCAG Level A, then the accessibility information is preserved and available for end users in the resulting content. (Level A) 09:28:56 Reed - as long as the tool does it at some point it's fine 09:29:09 Reed - we shouldn't really define when the tool should do it 09:29:52 B.1.3.1 Automatic Accessible (Level A): If the authoring tool automatically generates content, then that content meets WCAG Level A prior to *publishing*. 09:32:59 Action JR: Level A->Minimum, Level AA->??, Level AAA->??? 09:33:06 Created ACTION-34 - Level A->Minimum, Level AA->??, Level AAA->??? [on Jan Richards - due 2008-10-31]. 09:34:08 Topic: PRINCIPLE B.2: Authors must be supported in the production of accessible content 09:34:18 applicability notes are a bit in limbo 09:34:26 Topic: Guideline B.2.1 Guide authors to create accessible content. 09:38:22 JS - do we need the word "always" in "If an authoring action or instruction will always lead" 09:38:44 Reed - excessive prompting will produce a poor user experience 09:39:02 JS - one warning per authoring session? 09:39:20 JR - can see it working with a set of instructions 09:39:28 e.g. inserting an image instructions 09:40:03 JR - we're getting quite low level here 09:42:23 Reed - "cannot be made to meet" is easy to get around 09:42:32 JS - "cannot meet" is better 09:43:01 JR - cannot check a whole calendar widget and say "fix that" 09:51:09 Reed - is this going to be testable? 09:51:17 JR - getting quite fuzzy here 09:51:32 Reed - do i have to flag for everything that might not meet "A"? 09:59:21 Reed - checkers don't have to run at the end 09:59:32 Reed - they can be checking all the time 10:01:10 See also: For more information on how to prompt, see ATAG 2.0 Techniques - Appendix A: Prompting for Different Types of Accessibility Information. Repair features (see Guidelin B.2.3) are also an important aspect of author guidance. 10:03:17 -AnnM 10:03:58 Zakim, what is the meaning of life? 10:03:58 I don't understand your question, Reed. 10:08:09 Topic: Guideline B.2.2 Assist authors in checking for accessibility problems. 10:10:58 JR - for automated tools having line numbers would be good 10:11:16 JR - having something to click on to take you there would be great 10:11:32 JS - what are we trying to accomplish with this one? 10:13:08 We're just trying to help authors locate things 10:13:12 B.2.2.3 Help authors locate: 10:23:36 ... the author must be given sufficient information to identify the problem (e.g. display the content in situ, display image)/\. 10:32:46 JS - is an alternative page provided? Is a sign language alternative provided? 10:33:13 B.2.2.3 Help Authors Locate: For any checks that require author judgment to determine whether a potential accessibility problem is correctly identified (i.e., manual checking and semi-automated checking), the relevant content is identified (e.g., displaying the surrounding text, "Is a sign lanuage interpreation provided?") 10:37:49 -jtrevir 10:38:45 +??P0 10:39:30 zakim, ??P0 is really jtrevir 10:39:30 +jtrevir; got it 10:42:55 JS - we need to make it clear that this can be done with an outside tool 10:43:05 as part of the "authoring system" 10:53:03 -jtrevir 12:03:10 Andrew Arch (W3C) joins for an overview of WAI-AGE 12:07:13 zakim, who's there? 12:07:13 I don't understand your question, Reed. 12:07:23 zakim, who's here 12:07:23 jeanne, you need to end that query with '?' 12:07:31 amj has joined #au 12:07:57 rshaffne has joined #au 12:08:05 zakim, what's the meaning of life? 12:08:05 I don't understand your question, rshaffne. 12:08:13 zakim, easter eggs? 12:08:13 I don't understand your question, rshaffne. 12:08:18 zakim, who's here? 12:08:18 On the phone I see Room_138 12:08:19 Room_138 has Jan_Richards, Jeanne_Spellman, Andrew_Ronksley, Sally_Cain(observing) 12:08:20 On IRC I see rshaffne, amj, AndrewR, jeanne, RRSAgent, Zakim, JR, SallyC, trackbot 12:08:22 zakim, who are you? 12:08:22 I don't understand your question, rshaffne. 12:08:23 zakim, who's your daddy? 12:08:23 Ralph is taking good care of me but you all are my family, JR 12:08:37 zakim, who's your mommy? 12:08:37 I don't understand your question, rshaffne. 12:08:51 zakim, room_138 now has Reed_Shaffner 12:08:51 +Reed_Shaffner; got it 12:09:05 zakim, who's here? 12:09:05 On the phone I see Room_138 12:09:06 Room_138 has Reed_Shaffner 12:09:07 On IRC I see rshaffne, amj, AndrewR, jeanne, RRSAgent, Zakim, JR, SallyC, trackbot 12:10:03 zakim, room_138 also has Jan_Richards, Jeanne_Spellman, Andrew_Ronksley, Sally_Cain(observing) 12:10:03 +Jan_Richards, Jeanne_Spellman, Andrew_Ronksley, Sally_Cain(observing); got it 12:10:08 zakim, who's here? 12:10:08 On the phone I see Room_138 12:10:09 Room_138 has Reed_Shaffner, Jan_Richards, Jeanne_Spellman, Andrew_Ronksley, Sally_Cain(observing) 12:10:12 On IRC I see rshaffne, amj, AndrewR, jeanne, RRSAgent, Zakim, JR, SallyC, trackbot 12:10:58 AA: Did a large literature review of what older people do on-line. There are many things we can learn from these studies in other parts of WAI. 12:11:09 ... the complexity of the user agent. 12:11:30 ...how to increase the font size 12:11:55 JR has joined #au 12:12:06 ...the declining ability for fine motor control. 12:13:10 ...making things easier to activate and control - like buttons and scroll bars. 12:13:45 AA: the retirement age is rising or becoming arbitrary, so more older workers are staying in the workplace. 12:14:21 AA:The accessibility of Content Management Systems is key as the web becomes more and more 2-way. 12:15:11 AA: What most people have identified as requirements of Ageing are covered by WCAG, but mostly in the advisory techniques. 12:16:19 ...contrast between colors significantly deteriorates. 12:16:52 RS: We have to be careful, because some bright colors help some conditions and not others. 12:17:02 RS: Our research show older people shun AT's when they are associated with disability 12:17:16 SC: Agree 12:17:40 RS: There can be social stigma around disability 12:17:56 RS: What are we doing about wording "disability"... 12:18:17 AA: Part of scope is awareness of overlap...especially among support agencies 12:18:46 AA: No studies on training talking about adaptive strategies...closest is go to store and try different mouse 12:19:21 RS: So little definitive research in this area....need to be careful when setting standards in this area 12:19:42 SC: THis is why I'm excited about personalization 12:20:02 JS: Actually research is there...but locked up in corporate 12:20:20 AA: Some of it....but there are some universities working in this area. 12:20:46 AA: Amount of research in journals now is increasing significantly - likely to be definitive things in 5 yrs 12:21:22 RS: We at MS have some data but not by age 12:21:39 JS: I worked at a place that was doing really good stuff 12:21:52 AA: RNIB did some good work on vision decline 12:22:12 http://www.w3.org/TR/2008/WD-wai-age-literature-20080514/#what 12:22:43 RS: Never should be standard UI 12:23:03 JS: Right...but also ability to change not only appearance but less complexity 12:23:09 RS: But what does simpler mean? 12:23:37 AA: Work in browser...what do I need to browse vs. do other things the Web does 12:23:50 AA: Haven't seen definitive stuff on authoring tools 12:28:06 AA: "Newer" older users don't want to change the setup 12:28:23 AA: Even after a couple of years 12:29:08 JR: Wrapping up.... 12:29:13 http://www.w3.org/WAI/WAI-AGE/comparative-WAI.html 12:29:19 AA: OK We've put together this table 12:29:39 AA: It's our initial attempt to map WAI guidelines to the Age requirements 12:29:53 AA: We'd be keen to work with AUWG to do a double check 12:30:06 RS: Studies cited? 12:30:13 AA: Yes at bottom of litt review 12:30:31 http://www.w3.org/TR/2008/WD-wai-age-literature-20080514/#refs 12:30:32 There's probably some overlap with interfaces people have been working on for people with learning disabilities using exisiting site APIs to create new "skins" 12:30:44 http://icant.co.uk/easy-youtube/ 12:30:52 http://code.google.com/p/accessible-maps/ 12:30:57 AA: And if anyone has seen studies we'd be pleased to see them 12:31:40 AR: Brings up "ethical mashups" 12:31:59 http://www.softwareexpress.co.uk/ 12:32:11 AA: Sometimes hard to diff. unfamiliarity with mild cognitive impairment (forgetfulness) 12:32:46 SC: I've just put in a link to compny that makes skins of browsers and email 12:33:47 It is an application interface to the computer that includes web, email, word and any main functionality of a computer that someone would want to do. 12:35:28 issue: create an Appendix on Ageing population requirements in conjunction with WAI-AGE project 12:35:29 Created ISSUE-170 - Create an Appendix on Ageing population requirements in conjunction with WAI-AGE project ; please complete additional details at http://www.w3.org/WAI/AU/tracker/issues/170/edit . 12:36:27 > http://www.w3.org/WAI/WAI-AGE/comparative-WAI.html 12:36:56 action: JS to follow up with Andrew Arch on cross-over of with WAI Age document http://www.w3.org/WAI/WAI-AGE/comparative-WAI.html 12:36:56 Created ACTION-35 - Follow up with Andrew Arch on cross-over of with WAI Age document http://www.w3.org/WAI/WAI-AGE/comparative-WAI.html [on Jeanne Spellman - due 2008-10-31]. 12:38:53 scribe:rshaffner 12:39:00 scribe: rshaffne 12:39:03 topic: Conformance 12:39:15 new version: http://www.w3.org/WAI/AU/2008/WD-ATAG20-20081024/WD-ATAG20-20081024 12:41:56 +??P8 12:42:36 JR: talked with archer and we may add appendix talking about aging 12:42:38 JR 12:43:12 JT: I wanted to relay that yesterday that I was at the free software symposium (open source) fairly lengthy discussion on alt text 12:43:24 zakim, ??P8 is really jutta 12:43:24 +jutta; got it 12:43:26 JT: resolution was that this needed to be dealt with for flikr and other uploaded images 12:44:16 JR: Html may make alt no longer required 12:44:38 JT: I was trying to relay to them that ATAG couldn't handle unless dealt with in WCAG 12:44:44 ..as well 12:45:16 JR: it's not completely decided WAIs position is to make it mandatory 12:45:52 JT: we are thought to be promoting WCAG compliance, implication seems to be that we would have requirements that go beyond WCAG 12:49:32 JT: more strenuous support for alt text in the authoring tool than in the content guidelines 12:49:57 JR: do you mean automatically, or do you mean like 1000 picture dump where you shouldn't get to publish without mandatory alt contribution? 12:50:06 issue: more strenuous support of alt in ATAG than in the WCAG guidelines. 12:50:06 Created ISSUE-171 - More strenuous support of alt in ATAG than in the WCAG guidelines. ; please complete additional details at http://www.w3.org/WAI/AU/tracker/issues/171/edit . 12:50:08 JT: what would the UI look like that forces people to do this? 12:50:23 JT: they gave examples of other batch uploads where there was metadata requirement 12:51:04 JR: at the end if the user just wants to get pictures up, shouldn't they be able to do that? 12:51:12 JT: I agree 12:51:29 JT: the issues is the feeling that ATAG could be more strenuous than ATAG 12:51:39 JR: moving to conformance again 12:51:44 NOTE MOVING BACK TO CONFORMANCE SECTION 12:53:42 RS: we should add something to make people not liable for claims made on their behalf 12:56:45 discussing whether it is appropriate to have links everywhere 12:56:52 what is right level of conformance disclosure 12:57:05 Whenever the claimed conformance level is published (e.g., product information website), the URI for the on-line published version of the conformance claim must be included. 12:58:29 Claimants are solely responsible for the accuracy of their claims (including claims that include products for which they are not responsible) and keeping claims up to date. 12:59:08 Discussing required components 12:59:37 (e.g., "Authoring Tool Accessibility Guidelines 2.0, 24 October 2008, Editor's Draft ") 13:00:54 JS: we should make the line the same about responsibility 13:01:00 JR: ok 13:01:12 Moving up section about claimants being solely responsible 13:01:24 burden is on claimant 13:01:43 Claimants are solely responsible for the accuracy of their claims and keeping claims up to date. The burden is on the conformance claimant rather than the developer of any of the software components. 13:02:38 +Tim_Boland 13:03:16 rrsagent, make logs public 13:03:21 rrsagent, make minutes 13:03:21 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/24-au-minutes.html jeanne 13:04:59 (a) The ATAG 2.0 conformance level that has been satisfied (see Donformance Levels) 13:05:03 (a) The ATAG 2.0 conformance level that has been satisfied (see Conformance Levels) 13:05:15 This is replacing a 13:05:31 JR: the only thing changing is what it in the brackets 13:05:44 JR: moving on to B 13:06:37 JS: let's slow down, we made a major change to this in July, need to amke sure it's still accurate 13:07:52 JS: don't need bullet saying need at leasst one piece of content 13:08:11 RS: does it matter if HTML and JS are used... 13:08:16 all, let's just kill both bullets 13:08:19 JR: moving onto C 13:10:09 JS: can we strike C? 13:10:22 RS: I think so 13:10:38 CS :does that mean other techs wont be listed? 13:10:39 yes 13:10:41 ok 13:10:43 REMOVED 13:10:59 JR: D is for completeness 13:11:10 RS: d is a heads up for what won't work 13:11:30 Moving to part e 13:12:14 JR: there will only be one version of WCAG 13:12:26 RS: in fact keeping it means people can site the old version 13:12:38 provide the name and version information of the user agent(s). 13:12:40 OK, changing to just provide the name and version of the user agents 13:13:08 zakim, who's here? 13:13:08 On the phone I see Room_138, jutta, Tim_Boland 13:13:09 Room_138 has Reed_Shaffner, Jan_Richards, Jeanne_Spellman, Andrew_Ronksley, Sally_Cain(observing) 13:13:11 On IRC I see JR, rshaffne, andrewA, AndrewR, jeanne, RRSAgent, Zakim, trackbot 13:13:37 jtrevir has joined #au 13:14:08 JR: are we OK leaving that as is? 13:14:10 yes 13:14:40 JS: wait so we didn't finish up platforms? 13:14:44 JR: yeah, is that still ok? 13:15:16 JR: we will link to examples for the accessibility platform architectures 13:18:15 AXAPI for MacOS 13:18:41 UA for MacOS 13:19:27 JR: can we go onto optional components? 13:20:09 Action JR: Look into MacOS equiv of MSAA 13:20:10 Created ACTION-36 - Look into MacOS equiv of MSAA [on Jan Richards - due 2008-10-31]. 13:21:32 SallyC has joined #au 13:21:36 http://developer.apple.com/documentation/Accessibility/Conceptual/AccessibilityMacOSX/OSXAXModel/chapter_4_section_1.html 13:22:37 JS: is there a reason why normative is there? 13:22:42 JR: nope, good point 13:24:10 JS: unclear where they said they did it 13:24:17 JR: that's what implied by conformance level 13:25:41 JR: example, I complied to ATAG 2.0 Level A and therefore I met all A requirements 13:25:50 JS: they should at least have to list not applicables 13:26:04 TB: don't they have to do that today? if they don't, they should have to? 13:26:22 JR: it's there 13:26:31 JS: ok let's just move it over to conformance so they do it 13:26:53 JR: for each one they say whether they did it, or they say why it was N/A 13:27:01 JS: let's making it missing c 13:28:42 (c) For each success criteria, a declaration of whether or not the success criterion has been satisfied or a declaration that the success criteria is not applicable to the authoring tool and a rationale for why not. 13:31:25 Jan is currently drafting up changesx 13:32:00 jeanne2 has joined #au 13:32:13 (c) For each success criteria, a declaration of whether or not the success criterion has been satisfied or a declaration that the success criteria is not applicable to the authoring tool and a rationale for why not. 13:32:19 repost for Jeanne post drop 13:32:21 no changes aboce 13:32:24 above 13:32:44 cshelly has joined #au 13:32:58 (c)For each success criterion: a declaration of whether or not the success criterion has been satisfied or 13:32:58 a declaration that the success criterion is not applicable and a rationale for why not. 13:35:25 JR: remove or web content accessibility benchmark document 13:36:39 action: JS to check with W3C internal to confirm the wording of the Conformance Disclaimer section. #conf-disclaimer 13:36:39 Created ACTION-37 - Check with W3C internal to confirm the wording of the Conformance Disclaimer section. #conf-disclaimer [on Jeanne Spellman - due 2008-10-31]. 13:37:37 JS: I will check on it and based on what lawyers say, is everyone ok with that? 13:38:30 TB: do you have to actually identify who made the claim? 13:38:40 JS: where should it go?? 13:41:22 -Tim_Boland 13:52:04 zakim, who's here? 13:52:04 On the phone I see Room_138, jutta 13:52:05 Room_138 has Reed_Shaffner, Jan_Richards, Jeanne_Spellman, Andrew_Ronksley, Sally_Cain(observing) 13:52:08 On IRC I see cshelly, jeanne2, SallyC, jtrevir, JR, rshaffne, andrewA, RRSAgent, Zakim, trackbot 13:52:18 rshaffne has joined #au 13:52:23 zakim, who's here? 13:52:23 On the phone I see Room_138, jutta 13:52:24 Room_138 has Reed_Shaffner, Jan_Richards, Jeanne_Spellman, Andrew_Ronksley, Sally_Cain(observing) 13:52:26 On IRC I see rshaffne, cshelly, jeanne2, SallyC, jtrevir, JR, andrewA, RRSAgent, Zakim, trackbot 13:52:30 AndrewR has joined #au 13:52:33 thanks zakim 13:52:59 scribe: rshaffner 13:53:04 scribe:rshaffne 13:53:12 JR: we are back up at the tope 13:53:15 top 13:53:27 JR: we are at levels of conformance 13:55:15 RS: i like partial conformance 13:55:22 +1 for that 13:55:57 JS: I hate to just see one thing stop conformance 13:56:07 JR: but if you give a mouse a cookie.. 13:56:39 JS: do we want to expand partial conformance? 13:56:47 e.g. should it not just be a or b 13:57:54 JR: let's remove the note 13:57:55 JS did 13:58:15 JR: 10min left, let's try and zip back to B2.2.3 13:58:34 Like Jutta's idea around record keeping 13:58:45 Action JR: Proposal to add a AA recordkeeping item to B.2.2 13:58:45 Created ACTION-38 - Proposal to add a AA recordkeeping item to B.2.2 [on Jan Richards - due 2008-10-31]. 14:00:49 q+ to discuss the checking SC -- aren't location and advise needed in B.2.3? 14:02:35 ack jeanne 14:02:35 jeanne, you wanted to discuss the checking SC -- aren't location and advise needed in B.2.3? 14:02:48 JS: we will need more specific examples for the repair section 14:03:44 JR: let's at least make some notes on what we need to do here 14:04:28 Issue: provide additional success criteria in B.2.3 on repair 14:04:28 Created ISSUE-172 - Provide additional success criteria in B.2.3 on repair ; please complete additional details at http://www.w3.org/WAI/AU/tracker/issues/172/edit . 14:04:58 action: JS to draft proposal for new success criteria for B.2.3 Repair 14:04:58 Created ACTION-39 - Draft proposal for new success criteria for B.2.3 Repair [on Jeanne Spellman - due 2008-10-31]. 14:06:10 Adding SC's to Repair: 14:06:12 - Availability: Repair is available prior to publishing... 14:06:13 - Help Authors Locate... 14:06:15 - Help Authors Decide... 14:11:17 http://www.w3.org/WAI/AU/tracker/ 14:14:36 Would like to say thank you for letting me observe and participate in today's group. It has been really helpful and interesting. 14:17:45 SallyC has left #au 14:18:55 AndrewR has left #au 14:28:05 Action JT: Send (untransposed) draft with grammar edits 14:28:06 Created ACTION-40 - Send (untransposed) draft with grammar edits [on Jutta Treviranus - due 2008-10-31]. 14:28:12 rrsagent, make minutes 14:28:12 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/24-au-minutes.html jeanne2 14:28:28 zakim, bye 14:28:28 leaving. As of this point the attendees were AnnM, Jan_Richards, Jeanne_Spellman, Andrew_Ronksley, Sally_Cain(observing), jtrevir, Room_138, Reed_Shaffner, jutta, Tim_Boland 14:28:29 Zakim has left #au 14:29:10 rshaffne has joined #au 14:29:16 zakim dir 14:29:46 present+ Cynthia_Shelly 14:30:03 Present+ Andrew_Arch(0bserving) 14:30:23 rrsagent, make minutes 14:30:23