IRC log of wam on 2008-10-09

Timestamps are in UTC.

11:01:27 [RRSAgent]

RRSAgent has joined #wam

11:01:27 [RRSAgent]

logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/10/09-wam-irc

11:01:28 [MikeSmith]

trackbot, start meeting

11:01:29 [trackbot]

RRSAgent, make logs public

11:01:29 [Zakim]

Zakim has joined #wam

11:01:31 [trackbot]

Zakim, this will be WAPP

11:01:31 [Zakim]

I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, trackbot

11:01:32 [trackbot]

Meeting: Web Applications Working Group Teleconference

11:01:32 [trackbot]

Date: 09 October 2008

11:01:36 [trackbot]

RRSAgent, make logs public

11:01:38 [MikeSmith]

WAPP?

11:01:40 [trackbot]

Zakim, this will be WAPP

11:01:40 [Zakim]

I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, trackbot

11:01:42 [trackbot]

Meeting: Web Applications Working Group Teleconference

11:01:44 [trackbot]

Date: 09 October 2008

11:01:51 [tlr]

zakim, this will be wam

11:01:51 [Zakim]

I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, tlr

11:01:55 [tlr]

zakim, show conferences

11:01:55 [Zakim]

I don't understand 'show conferences', tlr

11:01:59 [tlr]

zakim, list conferences

11:01:59 [Zakim]

I see GA_SVGWG()6:30AM, IA_WebApps(Widgets)7:00AM active

11:02:01 [Zakim]

also scheduled at this time is VB_SSML()7:00AM

11:02:07 [tlr]

wtf

11:02:11 [MikeSmith]

Zakim, list conferences

11:02:11 [Zakim]

I see GA_SVGWG()6:30AM, IA_WebApps(Widgets)7:00AM active

11:02:13 [Zakim]

also scheduled at this time is VB_SSML()7:00AM

11:02:35 [ArtB]

zakim, this is widgets

11:02:35 [Zakim]

ok, ArtB; that matches IA_WebApps(Widgets)7:00AM

11:02:35 [tlr]

gah,IA_WebApps(Widgets)

11:02:37 [tlr]

zakim, this will be widgets

11:02:37 [Zakim]

ok, tlr, I see IA_WebApps(Widgets)7:00AM already started

11:02:39 [mpriestl]

mpriestl has joined #wam

11:02:43 [tlr]

zakim, call thomas-781

11:02:43 [Zakim]

ok, tlr; the call is being made

11:02:45 [Zakim]

+Thomas

11:02:57 [tlr]

zakim, who is on the phone?

11:02:57 [Zakim]

On the phone I see Caroline, Art_Barstow, Thomas

11:03:02 [ArtB]

Meeting: Widgets Voice Conference

11:03:04 [tlr]

ugh

11:03:05 [ArtB]

Chair: Art

11:03:09 [ArtB]

Scribe: Art

11:03:11 [Zakim]

-Thomas

11:03:13 [ArtB]

ScribeNick: ArtB

11:03:13 [Zakim]

+??P5

11:03:22 [marcos]

zakin, ??P5 is I

11:03:22 [tlr]

zakim, call thomas-skype

11:03:22 [Zakim]

ok, tlr; the call is being made

11:03:23 [Zakim]

+Thomas

11:03:39 [marcos]

zakim, ??P5 is I

11:03:39 [Zakim]

+marcos; got it

11:03:44 [ArtB]

Regrets: DavidR

11:03:45 [arve]

arve has joined #wam

11:03:47 [Zakim]

+ +39.011.228.aaaa

11:03:48 [tlr]

zakim, I am thomas

11:03:48 [Zakim]

ok, tlr, I now associate you with Thomas

11:03:49 [tlr]

zakim, mute me

11:03:49 [Zakim]

Thomas should now be muted

11:04:04 [Zakim]

+ +44.771.751.aabb

11:04:07 [Zakim]

+??P8

11:04:08 [claudio]

claudio has joined #wam

11:04:16 [ArtB]

zakim, aabb is Mark

11:04:16 [Zakim]

+Mark; got it

11:04:16 [arve]

Zakim, PP8 is me

11:04:17 [Zakim]

sorry, arve, I do not recognize a party named 'PP8'

11:04:19 [Zakim]

-Caroline

11:04:24 [arve]

Zakim, P8 is me

11:04:24 [Zakim]

sorry, arve, I do not recognize a party named 'P8'

11:04:27 [arve]

Zakim, ??P8 is me

11:04:27 [Zakim]

+arve; got it

11:04:38 [arve]

[I'll never get Zakim's syntax right]

11:04:43 [Zakim]

+Caroline

11:05:01 [ArtB]

Present: Art, Arve, Benoit, Mark, Marcos, Thomas, Claudio

11:05:32 [ArtB]

Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2008OctDec/0051.html

11:05:42 [ArtB]

Topic: Agenda Tweaking

11:05:50 [ArtB]

AB: any change requests for the agenda?

11:05:52 [ArtB]

[None]

11:06:00 [ArtB]

Topic: Annoucements

11:06:10 [ArtB]

AB: any annoucements?

11:07:21 [tlr]

zakim, unmute me

11:07:21 [Zakim]

Thomas should no longer be muted

11:08:01 [ArtB]

[None]

11:08:08 [ArtB]

Topic: API and Events spec

11:08:14 [ArtB]

AB: Arve, what's the status?

11:08:28 [ArtB]

Arve: I think we are ready to publish

11:08:47 [ArtB]

... I haven't done much since last week except to remove prefs API

11:08:55 [ArtB]

... I need some help getting it "pub ready"

11:09:16 [ArtB]

ACTION: Barstow talk to Mike about helping Arve getting the API and Events spec "pub ready"

11:09:17 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-254 - Talk to Mike about helping Arve getting the API and Events spec \"pub ready\" [on Arthur Barstow - due 2008-10-16].

11:09:23 [MikeSmith]

hai

11:09:34 [MikeSmith]

I can deal with that of course

11:09:40 [ArtB]

Arve: HTML5 defines a similar API

11:09:53 [ArtB]

... but the semantics and UCs are a bit diff

11:10:02 [ArtB]

... e.g. showNotification

11:10:45 [ArtB]

ACTION: Barstow submit FPWD request for API and Events spec

11:10:45 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-255 - Submit FPWD request for API and Events spec [on Arthur Barstow - due 2008-10-16].

11:11:04 [ArtB]

Topic: DigSig spec

11:11:33 [ArtB]

AB: what's the status Mark and Marcos?

11:11:42 [ArtB]

MC: we haven't done any work in the last week

11:11:55 [ArtB]

AB: where is this in your priorities Mark and Marcos?

11:12:00 [ArtB]

MC: my priority is the P&C spec

11:12:06 [ArtB]

... but I can help Mark

11:12:27 [ArtB]

MP: from the VF and BONDI point of view, we want to use the DigSig spec

11:12:34 [ArtB]

... it is important to progress it

11:12:48 [ArtB]

... I hope to do some work on it next week

11:13:05 [ArtB]

... it is a priority for us

11:13:30 [ArtB]

MC: the P&C spec is being update to include multiple signatures

11:14:06 [ArtB]

... If Mark could start a dialog with XMLSec WG that could help

11:15:41 [ArtB]

AB: it would be good to get more specific on the agenda for our joint meeting

11:15:52 [ArtB]

MC: I have some questions for them re our model

11:15:54 [tlr]

zakim, mute me

11:15:54 [Zakim]

Thomas should now be muted

11:17:04 [tlr]

+1 to having specific issues. However, note that I won't have much bandwidth available between now and TPAC.

11:17:13 [ArtB]

AB: I would like MC and MP to be prepared to drive the discussion with XML Sec WG

11:17:23 [tlr]

nope

11:17:32 [ArtB]

... we want specific questions, in advance if possible

11:18:05 [ArtB]

AB: what is the status of the latest ED http://dev.w3.org/2006/waf/widgets-digsig/ - says May 27

11:18:25 [ArtB]

... do you have a copy that reflects discussions in Turin

11:18:51 [tlr]

s/nope//

11:19:05 [ArtB]

MC: we have done some brainstorming but haven't put those ideas into CVS

11:19:31 [ArtB]

AB: will there be an update before the f2f meeting?

11:19:41 [ArtB]

MC: yes; at a min we will add some UC data

11:20:49 [ArtB]

... I will need Mark's help

11:21:39 [ArtB]

Topic: I18N issue

11:21:49 [MikeSmith]

RRSAgent, please make minutes

11:21:49 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/09-wam-minutes.html MikeSmith

11:22:16 [ArtB]

AB: have you Marcos and Felix converged on a solution?

11:22:52 [ArtB]

MC: Felix provided some good feedback re ITS

11:23:04 [ArtB]

... I added optional support for ITS to the ED

11:23:14 [ArtB]

... Felix says my latest changes are OK

11:23:33 [ArtB]

... he recommended some minor changes in the Relax NG schema and I've added those

11:23:51 [ArtB]

AB: can we now close this issue i.e. ISSUE #46?

11:24:14 [ArtB]

... http://www.w3.org/2008/webapps/track/issues/46

11:24:37 [ArtB]

MC: no I don't think we can close this yet

11:24:48 [ArtB]

... want to make sure I18N WG is OK with our solution

11:25:19 [ArtB]

Topic: widget URI scheme aka Issue #16

11:26:38 [ArtB]

AB: we will meet with some TAG members on Monday Oct 20 14:00-15:00 to discuss this issue

11:26:53 [ArtB]

MC: I have been responding to Mark Baker's comments

11:27:14 [marcos]

widget-uri = "http://" widget-engine [":" instance-id] "/"package-name path-absolute ["#" fragment]

11:27:42 [mpriestl]

mpriestl has joined #wam

11:27:44 [marcos]

zakim, who is making noise?

11:27:50 [ArtB]

Arve: this seems like a breakage with HTTP

11:27:55 [Zakim]

marcos, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: 7 (9%), +39.011.228.aaaa (38%), arve (51%)

11:28:06 [tlr]

zakim, unmute me

11:28:06 [Zakim]

Thomas should no longer be muted

11:28:06 [tlr]

q+

11:28:14 [marcos]

zakim, mute +39.011.228.aaaa

11:28:14 [Zakim]

+39.011.228.aaaa should now be muted

11:28:28 [ArtB]

... I think using this is a locator issue

11:28:38 [ArtB]

Arve: I think file: has lots of problems

11:28:47 [ArtB]

... e.g. not interoperable in current browsers

11:29:02 [ArtB]

... as well as no formal definition

11:29:23 [ArtB]

... it is also overloaded in Windows (e.g. file share)

11:29:35 [marcos]

MC: your arguments are reflected here http://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-hoffman-file-uri-03.txt

11:30:01 [ArtB]

TR: http URI as posted by Marcos is broken

11:30:13 [ArtB]

... uses a domain-based authority

11:30:23 [ArtB]

... but it isn't domain-based

11:31:05 [arve]

marcos: yes

11:31:25 [ArtB]

TR: if the HTTP URI scheme could be used would facilitate Widgets and Gadgets

11:31:38 [ArtB]

... think we need to consider this more

11:31:41 [tlr]

zakim, mute me

11:31:41 [Zakim]

Thomas should now be muted

11:32:35 [tlr]

ack me

11:32:39 [ArtB]

MC: want to know if my example is broken or not

11:32:49 [ArtB]

Arve: there are lots of servers that respond to localhost

11:33:44 [tlr]

zakim, mute me

11:33:44 [Zakim]

Thomas should now be muted

11:34:03 [tlr]

zakim, unmute me

11:34:03 [Zakim]

Thomas should no longer be muted

11:34:07 [ArtB]

MC: the arch question - is what is the origin

11:34:49 [ArtB]

... are the pieces addressable on the web

11:35:06 [tlr]

zakim, mute me

11:35:06 [Zakim]

Thomas should now be muted

11:35:15 [ArtB]

... Could be useful to compare the various design options

11:35:18 [tlr]

zakim, unmute me

11:35:18 [Zakim]

Thomas should no longer be muted

11:35:31 [tlr]

zakim, mute me

11:35:31 [Zakim]

Thomas should now be muted

11:35:55 [tlr]

zakim, unmute me

11:35:55 [Zakim]

Thomas should no longer be muted

11:36:23 [ArtB]

TR: is the widget addressable through http or not

11:36:40 [ArtB]

Arve: some widgets may never be served over http

11:36:48 [ArtB]

... e.g. are installed on a device

11:37:03 [ArtB]

TR: but that wouldn't preclude use of http uri

11:37:13 [ArtB]

... could still mint something

11:37:32 [ArtB]

... the configuration file could address the issue

11:37:55 [ArtB]

... It isn't so much about whether the widget is download-able from the Web

11:38:05 [ArtB]

... but more about identification via URIs

11:38:55 [tlr]

zakim, mute me

11:38:55 [Zakim]

Thomas should now be muted

11:39:23 [tlr]

I don't think I have an answer, and I suspect it will be useful for Arve, MArcos and myself to sit down with a piece of paper or a whiteboard

11:40:44 [tlr]

+1 to Art

11:41:03 [ArtB]

AB: want to get a plan for using the time with the TAG wisely

11:41:23 [ArtB]

... seems like we need to start with a high level discussion of our UC and our Reqs

11:41:32 [ArtB]

... and then talk about different ways to address those reqs

11:42:13 [ArtB]

AB: do we have a clear UC and Reqs?

11:42:52 [ArtB]

MC: I think the reqs doc provides sufficient information

11:42:52 [marcos]

http://dev.w3.org/2006/waf/widgets-reqs/#r6.-addressing

11:43:44 [tlr]

cid:

11:43:45 [tlr]

http:

11:43:47 [tlr]

file:

11:43:49 [ArtB]

MC: I can present the various solutions

11:43:56 [ArtB]

... and explain why they don't work for us

11:45:05 [ArtB]

AB: OK, that's the plan then

11:45:15 [ArtB]

Topic: Widget Testing

11:45:53 [ArtB]

AB: we have at least Carmelo and others from MWTS WG to join us

11:46:07 [ArtB]

MC: do we need to create some reqs?

11:46:17 [ArtB]

AB: what do people think?

11:46:33 [ArtB]

... I don't think that is a high priority

11:46:53 [ArtB]

... but that may be one of Carmelo's first questions to us

11:47:07 [ArtB]

MC: thinking about things like automated harness, etc.

11:47:17 [ArtB]

... what methodology do we want to use?

11:47:25 [ArtB]

... CSS has a model we could use

11:47:47 [ArtB]

... Naming conventions, ...

11:47:57 [ArtB]

... I think we need some guidance

11:48:53 [marcos]

MC: will it be a web based thing? or just a bunch of files that can be downloaded?

11:49:36 [ArtB]

Topic: Requirement doc - Req #21 - New req "Feature Access Declarations"

11:50:12 [ArtB]

AB: Marcos proposed this new req: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2008OctDec/0053.html

11:50:18 [marcos]

http://dev.w3.org/2006/waf/widgets-reqs/#r21.-

11:50:43 [tlr]

q+ to ask that Marcos present this at the December workshop

11:51:01 [tlr]

zakim, unmute me

11:51:01 [Zakim]

Thomas should no longer be muted

11:51:07 [ArtB]

MC: the basic idea is to rationalize the <feature> element we've added to the P&C spec

11:51:15 [tlr]

zakim, mute me

11:51:15 [Zakim]

Thomas should now be muted

11:51:29 [mpriestl]

q=

11:51:32 [ArtB]

TR: please present this in the December secuity WS

11:51:37 [mpriestl]

q+

11:51:49 [ArtB]

AB: are you planning a PP for that WS Marcos?

11:51:50 [tlr]

marcos++

11:51:52 [tlr]

marcos++

11:51:54 [tlr]

;-)

11:51:58 [ArtB]

MC: yes

11:53:17 [ArtB]

MP: last call there was discussion about access element and feature element

11:53:41 [ArtB]

... we have had discussion about that in BONDI and VF and can share that during the upcoming f2f meeting

11:54:13 [ArtB]

AB: send comments to the mail list; Marcos has already added this to the ED

11:54:34 [ArtB]

Topic: Requirements LC #2

11:54:48 [ArtB]

AB: deadline for comments is October 13

11:55:02 [ArtB]

... what is the rate of comments?

11:55:12 [ArtB]

MC: only Krzy has responded

11:55:22 [ArtB]

... we could ping David Orchard

11:55:28 [ArtB]

... TR said it looks OK

11:56:08 [ArtB]

ACTION: Barstow ask David Orchard (again) to review Requirement LC #2

11:56:08 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-256 - Ask David Orchard (again) to review Requirement LC #2 [on Arthur Barstow - due 2008-10-16].

11:56:40 [ArtB]

AB: what changes have you made?

11:56:49 [ArtB]

MC: not too many

11:56:56 [ArtB]

... the only new req is #21

11:57:19 [ArtB]

Topic: AOB

11:57:31 [tlr]

ack tlr

11:57:36 [tlr]

ack thomas

11:57:37 [Zakim]

Thomas, you wanted to ask that Marcos present this at the December workshop

11:57:44 [ArtB]

AB: any : any topics?

11:58:06 [ArtB]

TR: please drum up support from the WS

11:58:08 [tlr]

zakim, mute me

11:58:08 [Zakim]

Thomas should now be muted

11:58:19 [ArtB]

... not just from you and your company but otherss outside of W3C are welcome

11:58:37 [tlr]

ack thomas

11:58:46 [ArtB]

AB: what is the deadlien for PP?

11:58:49 [ArtB]

TR: October 30

11:58:59 [tlr]

zakim, mute me

11:58:59 [Zakim]

Thomas should now be muted

11:59:05 [tlr]

zakim, unmute me

11:59:05 [Zakim]

Thomas should no longer be muted

11:59:36 [ArtB]

TR: the level of interest has been rising

11:59:48 [ArtB]

... now have MS and Google on the Program Committee

11:59:57 [tlr]

zakim, mute me

11:59:57 [Zakim]

Thomas should now be muted

12:00:30 [ArtB]

AB: meeting adjourned

12:00:33 [Zakim]

-Caroline

12:00:34 [Zakim]

-Mark

12:00:35 [Zakim]

-arve

12:00:36 [Zakim]

-Art_Barstow

12:00:37 [Zakim]

-Thomas

12:00:37 [Zakim]

- +39.011.228.aaaa

12:00:56 [Zakim]

-marcos

12:00:57 [Zakim]

IA_WebApps(Widgets)7:00AM has ended

12:00:58 [Zakim]

Attendees were Caroline, Art_Barstow, Thomas, marcos, +39.011.228.aaaa, +44.771.751.aabb, Mark, arve

12:01:02 [ArtB]

RRSAgent: make log public

12:01:22 [ArtB]

rrsagent: make minutes

12:01:22 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/09-wam-minutes.html ArtB

12:11:08 [arve]

arve has left #wam

13:40:33 [ArtB]

s/Meeting: Web Applications Working Group Teleconference/Meeting: Widgets Voice Conference/

13:40:43 [ArtB]

RRSAgent, make minutes

13:40:43 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/09-wam-minutes.html ArtB

14:04:02 [ArtB]

rrsagent, bye

14:04:02 [RRSAgent]

I see 3 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/09-wam-actions.rdf :

14:04:02 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Barstow talk to Mike about helping Arve getting the API and Events spec "pub ready" [1]

14:04:02 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/09-wam-irc#T11-09-16

14:04:02 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Barstow submit FPWD request for API and Events spec [2]

14:04:02 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/09-wam-irc#T11-10-45

14:04:02 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Barstow ask David Orchard (again) to review Requirement LC #2 [3]

14:04:02 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/09-wam-irc#T11-56-08